2479 replies to this topic

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Honestly, I don't have an issue with Associating Naruto with Real life with in REASON. (Because YES we should see the characters as real people, faults and mistakes included, but come on...Somethings cannot be related to life as regular people like us know it.) Most of us here don't know what it's like to live a life full or war and death where you train since you can walk to kill other human beings for a living...but what Will Of fire is doing is not within reason. 


I see Sasuke's betrayal as  VERY BIG THING.  but I KNOW that this is not the time for Team 7 or Konoha in general to address such a thing. Right now they have no choice but to direct all their efforts towards the Juubi. It's do or die, they cannot be nit picky about the help that they get.

Naruto has accepted him for the time being
Shikamaru as well So why is it such a big damn deal what SAKURA has as well?
You're nitpicking and that my friend is the problem here.

You say Sakura is bad because of it, but what about the rest of the Konoha-nin? 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 02 June 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

To Tsuki Hoshino:

She LEFT them in danger. She left them in an unknown territory to hunt a member of Akatsuki, unconscious, and unaware as to whether or not there were other Akatsuki operatives around.

 

How did she know or how could she be sure that Kisame wouldn't come along and slit their throats while they laid there? Did she even ask any of her 'comrades' to detect if there were any other Akatsuki in the area? Nope? Strange, isn't it?

 

Such a lack of foresight and devotion to her own goals to the neglect of others.

Again show me WHERE they were in danger. Show me WHERE they FELT in Danger. You can't because they weren't.

Don't you think she SCOUTED the area first like any smart Ninja would? Don't you think she was paying attention to her surroundings? Don't you think Ninja KNOW when an area is safe?

Oh wait, I guess Sakura is to stupid to do something so simple. 

My point however is this: IF THE CHARACTERS DON'T MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT, WHY WOULD YOU?!

if it means nothing to them, then it should mean nothing to YOU. they were the ones in "Danger" yet they have no beef with her!

When they say. "I feel upset because of this!" Then you have permission to feel that way. 
 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 02 June 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[Zatheko]

To Tsuki Hoshino:

She LEFT them in danger. She left them in an unknown territory to hunt a member of Akatsuki, unconscious, and unaware as to whether or not there were other Akatsuki operatives around.

 

How did she know or how could she be sure that Kisame wouldn't come along and slit their throats while they laid there? Did she even ask any of her 'comrades' to detect if there were any other Akatsuki in the area? Nope? Strange, isn't it?

 

Such a lack of foresight and devotion to her own goals to the neglect of others.

You like to bring things up that aren't a big deal, if you want to talk about endangering peoples lives then I'll bring up a point as well.

 

Hinata foolishly charging pain, in all honesty if it weren't for Minato than Konoha and any inhabitants within would be gone. Now let's see whats worse, leaving Kiba and the others in a place that has no foreshadowed danger at all. Or causing the Kyuubi inside Naruto to kill everyone Naruto knows and loves. And if naruto survived that he would have to live with that for the rest of his life

 

And before you say "well that didn't happen so don't worry about it" shut it, because you are bringing up something that didn't happen as well but are making a big deal of it all. Maybe I would be inclined to believe you if the manga made it a big deal but it didn't.

Edited by zatheko, 02 June 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[Will_Of_Fire]

To Tsuki Hoshino: Nitpicking is where I might say something like "I hate her fashion sense", not "she left her comrades out in the open to die" or "she offered to abandon the village along with a traitor".

 

I admit that most do have very disappointing aspects.

 

I was thoroughly disappointed with Tenten's reaction to Neji's death...it seemed far too subdued.

 

As for that in relation to their reactions, Ino's truly disappoints me and I have to say I don't like her for it.

 

Shikamaru does accept Sasuke, but also qualifies it with a degree of distrust.

 

Kiba's reaction is possibly the most realistic, as he actually rails against Sasuke.

 

Sakura's is a big deal because she should have a more sceptical stance on him given her and the others' past experience with him and knowledge of her deeds. But she barely bats an eyelid.

[Zatheko]

To Tsuki Hoshino: Nitpicking is where I might say something like "I hate her fashion sense", not "she left her comrades out in the open to die" or "she offered to abandon the village along with a traitor".

 

I admit that most do have very disappointing aspects.

 

I was thoroughly disappointed with Tenten's reaction to Neji's death...it seemed far too subdued.

 

As for that in relation to their reactions, Ino's truly disappoints me and I have to say I don't like her for it.

 

Shikamaru does accept Sasuke, but also qualifies it with a degree of distrust.

 

Kiba's reaction is possibly the most realistic, as he actually rails against Sasuke.

 

Sakura's is a big deal because she should have a more sceptical stance on him given her and the others' past experience with him and knowledge of her deeds. But she barely bats an eyelid.

Just like Naruto did, if he doesn't bat an eyelid then why is it different if she doesn't? Honestly there is NO difference. Naruto has the confidence to trust him at that moment and in turn this could easily have caused Sakura to accept it. If you are going to bash one person for something bash them all, otherwise you are a huge hypocrite and I really think you are.

 

Not to mention what about Ino? She shouts "Sasuke-Kun" and even RAN TOWARDS HIM, much more then Sakura did when he arrived, she didn't move forward until Naruto did, once again showing it is because of Naruto's confidence that she can be calm in this situation.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

To Tsuki Hoshino: Nitpicking is where I might say something like "I hate her fashion sense", not "she left her comrades out in the open to die" or "she offered to abandon the village along with a traitor".

 

I admit that most do have very disappointing aspects.

 

I was thoroughly disappointed with Tenten's reaction to Neji's death...it seemed far too subdued.

 

As for that in relation to their reactions, Ino's truly disappoints me and I have to say I don't like her for it.

 

Shikamaru does accept Sasuke, but also qualifies it with a degree of distrust.

 

Kiba's reaction is possibly the most realistic, as he actually rails against Sasuke.

 

Sakura's is a big deal because she should have a more sceptical stance on him given her and the others' past experience with him and knowledge of her deeds. But she barely bats an eyelid.

Again you ignore Naruto getting on board with this. 

Sakura has said time and time again, She'll leave Sasuke's fate in Naruto's hands. If he says it's fine, why the hell shouldn't she stick to her words and let him handle it? Whats she supposed to do say; "GTFO Sasuke, we dun need ur help!" when obviously they do?

if anyone ANYONE should have a reason not to want Sasuke there IT'S NARUTO, yet he along with everyone else acknowledges the need to have him there at that point in time. Team 7's drama can wait, and everyone knows this except you apparently. 

Nit picking, Cherrypicking, call it whatever you like. it's all the same. You take one little, LITTLE thing and pull it apart, skewering it into something it wasn't to begin with. 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Holy...Zath, apparently great minds think alike! 

[Will_Of_Fire]

To Zatheko:

 

That's Naruto's responsibility, after all he is the one tasked with holding the Kyuubi in place. And the fact that he reacted that way, just shows that he had at least a reaction to her confession. You know, apart from the bored dismissal that he gives to Sakura's confession.

 

And what was Naruto honestly going to destroy by going to that state? There was nothing left to destroy, and most people were either dead or at minimum safe distance. And besides which you forget that the Kyuubi would never have been a factor if Akatsuki hadn't been there in the first place. Are you honestly telling me that if Naruto hadn't been pinned down and had fought at that level, he could defeat Pain? Of course he couldn't not without drawing on the Kyuubi's chakra. And how long would it have been before he drew too much on it out of necessity. After all, he showed that even at Six Tails he couldn't match Pain. So in order to defeat Pain, he pretty much would have had to release Kyuubi as a 'necessary evil'. So to this, I believe I should echo your words about Hinata charging in and possible outcomes that never happened by saying to you simply...shut up.

[Zatheko]

To Zatheko:

 

That's Naruto's responsibility, after all he is the one tasked with holding the Kyuubi in place. And the fact that he reacted that way, just shows that he had at least a reaction to her confession. You know, apart from the bored dismissal that he gives to Sakura's confession.

 

And what was Naruto honestly going to destroy by going to that state? There was nothing left to destroy, and most people were either dead or at minimum safe distance. And besides which you forget that the Kyuubi would never have been a factor if Akatsuki hadn't been there in the first place. Are you honestly telling me that if Naruto hadn't been pinned down and had fought at that level, he could defeat Pain? Of course he couldn't not without drawing on the Kyuubi's chakra. And how long would it have been before he drew too much on it out of necessity. After all, he showed that even at Six Tails he couldn't match Pain. So in order to defeat Pain, he pretty much would have had to release Kyuubi as a 'necessary evil'. So to this, I believe I should echo your words about Hinata it in and possible outcomes that never happened by saying to you simply...shut up.

Naruto's responsibility? Really? So queen Hinata gets no blame in this amazing... the logic is just so....

 

Hinata went into that fight knowing she didn't stand a chance, she knew what she was getting into and for someone who "apparently" knows Naruto best (yeah right) your telling me she didn't think he would have a reaction like that?

 

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

 

Deny it all you want but that was 150% Hinata's fault.

 

Nothing left to destroy? All of his friends are nothing? Wow your logic really is one a kind. It's obvious from this information you just gave me that you are nothing more than a troll.

 

Sakura leaves friends in a place that is not seen as dangerous, your reaction: What was she thinking? did she even think of the consequences of what COULD have happened!?

 

Hinata nearly causes all of Naruto's friends and loved ones to die, your reaction: Eh it's Naruto's responsibility, has nothing to do with Hinata.

 

 I want you to know that I am laughing at you from behind my computer screen right now.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

To Zatheko:

 

That's Naruto's responsibility, after all he is the one tasked with holding the Kyuubi in place. And the fact that he reacted that way, just shows that he had at least a reaction to her confession. You know, apart from the bored dismissal that he gives to Sakura's confession.

 

And what was Naruto honestly going to destroy by going to that state? There was nothing left to destroy, and most people were either dead or at minimum safe distance. And besides which you forget that the Kyuubi would never have been a factor if Akatsuki hadn't been there in the first place. Are you honestly telling me that if Naruto hadn't been pinned down and had fought at that level, he could defeat Pain? Of course he couldn't not without drawing on the Kyuubi's chakra. And how long would it have been before he drew too much on it out of necessity. After all, he showed that even at Six Tails he couldn't match Pain. So in order to defeat Pain, he pretty much would have had to release Kyuubi as a 'necessary evil'. So to this, I believe I should echo your words about Hinata charging in and possible outcomes that never happened by saying to you simply...shut up.

When you start telling people to shut up like that it implies that you're failing the argument.

The premise of his argument was simply to point out the fallacy in YOURS. 

You argue that Sai and the others were in danger because of Sakura, yet clearly the village was in danger due to Hinata's SELF ADMITTED selfish actions. you rag on one, I.E nitpicking, and excuse the other. 

Thus displaying how flawed your argument is from the very roots to the top. 

Dude...the Kyuubi would not just have stood in one spot and whipped his tails around. He would have run all over the place, to where the civilians were and DEMOLISHED them, before probably going out into the world and tearing it and everything in his way up putting EVERYONE in danger. ( if he wasn't captured by the remains of Akatsuki first.) 

I would hardly call Naruto's uncharacteristically "I'm serious face" Bored. If anything it had a HUGE impact. 

Again, Hinata's confession= never brought up again. I.E not important to Naruto at all. I think that's worse then "Bored face" when we look at her almost dying over it. as a matter of fact it's downright cold. 

*Coughs* is it sad that I actually enjoy debating like this?

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 02 June 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Zatheko]

To Zatheko:

 

That's Naruto's responsibility, after all he is the one tasked with holding the Kyuubi in place. And the fact that he reacted that way, just shows that he had at least a reaction to her confession. You know, apart from the bored dismissal that he gives to Sakura's confession.

 

And what was Naruto honestly going to destroy by going to that state? There was nothing left to destroy, and most people were either dead or at minimum safe distance. And besides which you forget that the Kyuubi would never have been a factor if Akatsuki hadn't been there in the first place. Are you honestly telling me that if Naruto hadn't been pinned down and had fought at that level, he could defeat Pain? Of course he couldn't not without drawing on the Kyuubi's chakra. And how long would it have been before he drew too much on it out of necessity. After all, he showed that even at Six Tails he couldn't match Pain. So in order to defeat Pain, he pretty much would have had to release Kyuubi as a 'necessary evil'. So to this, I believe I should echo your words about Hinata charging in and possible outcomes that never happened by saying to you simply...shut up.

Also you do know you were the first one to bring up events that could have happened and started making big deals about them right? right???? I really hope you do or else you just sound really dumb....

[Will_Of_Fire]

To Hoshino:

 

When you start telling people to shut up like that it implies that you're failing the argument.

 

Thank you. Zatheko was actually the first to say shut up, so I'm glad you agree he's failing the argument. Well done. Give yourself a pat on the back and a gold star.

 

To Zatheko:

I know I brought it up but you also continued it, but then to use a Star Wars bit of wisdom

"Who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?"

 

Also, as per your other comment, note that I said that everyone in that area of conflict was pretty much dead, and that the others were at minimum safe distance? Now you can say that there is no safe distance, but as I said he would have been pushed to that level no matter what.

 

Hinata may have gone in knowing she'd die, but she couldn't have known that it would unleash the Kyuubi if she died. After all, it doesn't really seem like many of the other shinobi outside the core group of Sakura, Tsunade, Shizune, Kakashi, Jiraiya, Sai and Yamato really understand what are the triggers. Because outside of those no-one's really seen Naruto triggering a 'Kyuubi event'.

[Zatheko]

To Hoshino:

 

When you start telling people to shut up like that it implies that you're failing the argument.

 

Thank you. Zatheko was actually the first to say shut up, so I'm glad you agree he's failing the argument. Well done. Give yourself a pat on the back and a gold star.

 

To Zatheko:

I know I brought it up but you also continued it, but then to use a Star Wars bit of wisdom

"Who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?"

 

Also, as per your other comment, note that I said that everyone in that area of conflict was pretty much dead, and that the others were at minimum safe distance? Now you can say that there is no safe distance, but as I said he would have been pushed to that level no matter what.

 

Hinata may have gone in knowing she'd die, but she couldn't have known that it would unleash the Kyuubi if she died. After all, it doesn't really seem like many of the other shinobi outside the core group of Sakura, Tsunade, Shizune, Kakashi, Jiraiya, Sai and Yamato really understand what are the triggers. Because outside of those no-one's really seen Naruto triggering a 'Kyuubi event'.

So you are calling yourself a fool as well? Ok then.

 

Maybe I will follow along some of your logic as well, "It was Hinata's responsibility" she was the one who went in I mean really if she didn't expect something to happen then why go in at all? She would have just.... died for nothing... absolutely nothing other than to tell him she loves her. I don't really get where this is going anymore but the point was the  "what if" scenarios that you kept bringing up and this Hinata scenario was one of these and it was also a worse "what if" situation than what could have happened to kiba and the others.

 

Basically I called you out on your Sakura leaving kiba and the others behind thing and I brought up an even worse scenario concerning Hinata, yet you don't seem to want to accept anything that bad mouths Hinata no matter how bad of a decision she made. Unless you can accept this then you are a hypocrite and will only consider bad "what ifs" if Sakura is involved.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

To Hoshino:

 

When you start telling people to shut up like that it implies that you're failing the argument.

 

Thank you. Zatheko was actually the first to say shut up, so I'm glad you agree he's failing the argument. Well done. Give yourself a pat on the back and a gold star.

 

Oh? Gold star?


Btw...If you and Zath lost, doesn't that mean I won?

And therefore anyone who was arguing the same things I was Also won? 

I.E Zath?

So I guess that means we both won o___o

Good game everyone.






 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 02 June 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[HauntedCake]

To Tsuki Hoshino: Nitpicking is where I might say something like "I hate her fashion sense", not "she left her comrades out in the open to die" or "she offered to abandon the village along with a traitor".

 

I admit that most do have very disappointing aspects.

 

I was thoroughly disappointed with Tenten's reaction to Neji's death...it seemed far too subdued.

 

As for that in relation to their reactions, Ino's truly disappoints me and I have to say I don't like her for it.

 

Shikamaru does accept Sasuke, but also qualifies it with a degree of distrust.

 

Kiba's reaction is possibly the most realistic, as he actually rails against Sasuke.

 

Sakura's is a big deal because she should have a more sceptical stance on him given her and the others' past experience with him and knowledge of her deeds. But she barely bats an eyelid.

Bolded: I don't think she would of actually done that, she was just desperate to stop sasuke from leaving. She was only 13 years old at the time she said that and clearly her feelings for Sasuke were overpowering all logic and reasoning. However she wouldn't of followed him down that path

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Bolded: I don't think she would of actually done that, she was just desperate to stop sasuke from leaving. She was only 13 years old at the time she said that and clearly her feelings for Sasuke were overpowering all logic and reasoning. However she wouldn't of followed him down that path

I honestly can't say how this would of went one way or the other. I would like to believe she wouldn't have gone or the whole way she would have attempted to turn him around, but the fact of the matter is that it DIDN'T happen.

We can't sit here and argue about what could have been's because they don't matter in the long run. I mean if we worried about everything that might have happened in Naruto...Jesus, we'd never sleep.

[HauntedCake]

I honestly can't say how this would of went one way or the other. I would like to believe she wouldn't have gone or the whole way she would have attempted to turn him around, but the fact of the matter is that it DIDN'T happen.

We can't sit here and argue about what could have been's because they don't matter in the long run. I mean if we worried about everything that might have happened in Naruto...Jesus, we'd never sleep.

I'm not worrying at all, i'm just skirmishing so to speak

[Chatte]

To be a great woman includes compasion and wisdom. Not hitting people. Not adhering to your own path for your own benefit.

 

If this series had any logic to it, or if you were able to admit to her flaws, Sakura would be held to account on all fronts.

 

She shafted her best friend Ino, all so she could chase after Sasuke. Now people say that she did this to grow out of Ino's shadow, but are you honestly telling me there was no other alternative? But instead she just abandons her friend...the complete antithesis of everything Naruto stands for.

 

She offered to join Sasuke in abandoning the village. She didn't give any thought to her friends, or the fact that Sasuke would be going to join a traitor who had just initiated a war that threatened the very lives of everyone in the village including her 'friends and comrades'. That she might eventually be called on to fight against those very people in order to stay with Sasuke never even bothered her in the least.

 

Her 'confession' was from self-interest. She may have been trying to save Naruto, but she also failed to understand him (a common thread throughout the series) and understand that it wasn't about 'the promise' on her part anymore, but that it was Naruto's goal to bring him back for his own reasons. It's no wonder why all those other's present look at her as if they'd rather not be anywhere near her.

 

When they leave the 'confession' site, she uses her comrades to track Sasuke...and then knocks them out and leaves them vulnerable. She knows that Sasuke has joined Akatsuki, and yet she still goes ahead and leaves them unconscious and vulnerable in an unfamiliar territory in an area where a known Akatsuki member is and that there may be others nearby for all she knows. All to further serve her own selfish goals with no regard for others.

 

People use RTN to justify things because it's Kishimoto behind the wheel. But then let's not forget that Sakura uses it to fulfil her own selfish desires to live free from what she sees as her overbearing parents. And she barely gives a thought to Naruto. One of her first actions when they get back to the village in that world is to squeal 'Sasuke-kun' and begin fangirling over him. She doesn't even give Naruto a second thought.

 

As for the latest chapter, it's not just because she says 'Sasuke-kun'. It's because there's a reason to suspect that she is blushing, and secondly that both Naruto and Sasuke are performing techniques and yet the first one she focuses on is Sasuke. And completely ignores Naruto. Now surely if they've both rushed in to that situation and Sakura cares about Naruto, the first concern in her head should be about Naruto. But it isn't. She focuses completely on Sasuke. Just like she has pretty much the entire series.

 

As to why I'm posting on here. It's because when I first started on here, I would have been happy no matter what the outcome in relationships with Sakura and Naruto would have been. That and I was promised a bash-free environment...which lasted all of about 7 posts before someone opened up on Ino...and nothing was done about it.

 

Over time, I've gradually just come to realise that Sakura is just a badly done character. She has very few redeeming features, and at all the key points where Kishimoto could have redeemed her flaws...they were missed badly.

 

And to Shadow Wolf: "-The simple fact that she is a normal girl and that she has accomplished this much is more than enough proof to conclude that she is more powerful than Hinata. And if you say that she is a doormat... then I wonder what does that say about Hinata. Keep in mind that you were the one who made this comment."

 

Originally, you could have made that argument. But unlike Sakura, Hinata evolved in that manner. Or did you miss where Naruto was wallowing in self-pity and Hinata slapped him and then brought him out of his funk? That she stood up to him in a positive way? Or that Hinata was the first to have a deeper insight into Naruto's character (chapter 96), whereas Sakura never has that about Sasuke, her 'love-interest'. And I say that because Sasuke has always been her focus, re: the promise. And now that he's back in the picture and temporarily on the good side, he's her focus again. She's back to her old ways.

Oh, lol, let me laugh because you missed about 80% of this character's development where Hinata doesn't even get near to.

This is clear some Hinata support here, which wouldn't be bad, but if you're that of an expert in literature, so to speak, you'd know that Hinata is even more badly written character than Sakura, if we're going by that logic.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I'm not worrying at all, i'm just skirmishing so to speak

I wasn't necessarily implying you i was more so talking to Will about this, because they seem to CONSTANTLY want to harp on hypothetical's. 

Seriously, just in general, So what if she offered to leave with Sasuke? She didn't. and if she had, whoose to say she would not have done EVERYTHING in her power to slow him down enough to get caught? or harped on him until he decided to turn back? there are so many "What-if's" that it makes no sense to sit there and while about it.

Not to mention that she was 12/13, A completely different girl to who she is now. So I guess by Will of Fire's decree everyone who has ever said or done something dumb as a preteen should be hated on. 

God knows I deserved to be slapped by my parents more then I was. 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 02 June 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Zatheko]

I wasn't necessarily implying you i was more so talking to Will about this, because they seem to CONSTANTLY want to harp on hypothetical's. 

Seriously, just in general, So what if she offered to leave with Sasuke? She didn't. and if she had, whoose to say she would not have done EVERYTHING in her power to slow him down enough to get caught? or harped on him until he decided to turn back? there are so many "What-if's" that it makes no sense to sit there and while about it.

Not to mention that she was 12/13, A completely different girl to who she is now. So I guess by Will of Fire's decree everyone who has ever said or done something dumb as a preteen should be hated on. 

God knows I deserved to be slapped by my parents more then I was. 

Seriously Will was so set on the "what if" with Sakura but bring up a "what if" with Hinata and NOPE she did nothing wrong, not her fault 

 

But yes, I agree with you guys worrying about these what if situations really aren't doing anything, Kishi wrote it the way he did for a reason, because that's how the story is supposed to be seen.

Edited by zatheko, 02 June 2013 - 09:54 AM.