31746 replies to this topic

[Aizen-Sama]

According to Kishi's own rules, slug beats snake in the three-way deadlock but apparently this doesn't apply to Sakura and Sasuke.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

I have a question to all members that have Japanese ties like Ramen and Ichigo-chan. I'm very curious to know if any of the Japanese fans that do not support Kishi will follow him in the future with a different manga and story? Or did they cut all ties with Kishi?

[Aizen-Sama]

I have a question to all members that have Japanese ties like Ramen and Ichigo-chan. I'm very curious to know if any of the Japanese fans that do not support Kishi will follow him in the future with a different manga and story? Or did they cut all ties with Kishi?

I dunno about the Japanese fans but I'm not looking at anything created by Kishimoto anymore. How can you trust an author who paired his heroine off with a guy who repeatedly tried to kill her & intentionally mislead the romance in a story? He's got no integrity or writing skills and there are millions of other authors who are more worth your time.

Edited by Aizen-Sama, 08 May 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

I have a question to all members that have Japanese ties like Ramen and Ichigo-chan. I'm very curious to know if any of the Japanese fans that do not support Kishi will follow him in the future with a different manga and story? Or did they cut all ties with Kishi?

well as Aizen said, I don't really know about the Japanese. But I personally would read his stuff just to see what it is, but he won't see a penny out of me ever again. G-kitten.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 08 May 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

http://hermionestorm...g-mydollyaviana This was a nice post i stumbled across. I think most of you will like it

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 08 May 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

http://hermionestorm...g-mydollyaviana This was a nice post i stumbled across. I think most of you will like it

So, Sasuke was good guy~ Huh. 

[tricksie]

True story: Scanning down the threads I read this one as The Great Naruto Depression Thread. lol! Some days I think that may be a better fit!

[MoonDrop04]

Hey can someone explain to me the contract between Kishi and SP for me please?? It had something to do with it ending in the summer but that's all I know 😑......

[Nar123]

Hey can someone explain to me the contract between Kishi and SP for me please?? It had something to do with it ending in the summer but that's all I know ......

 

Some people speceulated their contract ended this year but I find unlikely, no such proofs 

[Nostradamus]

Hey can someone explain to me the contract between Kishi and SP for me please?? It had something to do with it ending in the summer but that's all I know ......

It was a rumor that his contract with SP is over this year. However no one knows if it's true or what his contract with SP is or with SJ for that matter.

Edited by Nostradamus, 08 May 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[WhyDoIWatch]

 

Kurapika on your sig   , he is the original and better Sasuke 

 

About Sakura vs Sasuke, well I think that she could have a  chance if she had the byakugou, didn't acted like a pathetic lost kitten near him, and Sasuke was in his Hebi phase

 

But yeah realistically speaking, she would lose because she simply can't think on her right mind near Sasuke for some stupid reason and Kishimoto never bothered to change it

Kurapika is amazing but Sasuke is better 

 

Yeah, I don't know what drugs Kishi was on to make it so a blind already beaten Sasuke could grab Sakura by her neck and she does nothing about it.

 

Sakura is alot smarter than sasuke, remember that written chunnin exam?. Both naruto and sasuke cant answer a single questions only sakura can [and without cheating]. Brain/Intelegent "ALWAYS" beat power and speed. If for some god knows why reason sakura vs sasuke happen, my bet is on sakura because she is smarter. She is good at chakra control she even manage to save narutos life with almost zero chakra[The CPR scene]. Yes sasuke is stronger than her by power and speed, but sasuke easly tired especialy when using susanoo and amaterasu, remember when sasuke and edo itachi team up to fight kabuto?. Without itachi sasuke SURELY died. Itachi is smart while sasuke underestimate kabuto and got both of them in trouble. Well thats what i think.

Book Smarts=/=FIght Smarts, she has a terrible fighting style and nope Brain doesn't beat power and speed, you think Shikamaru could beat Madara or Gai? All Sasuke would have to do is fire one Susano'o arrow or use Amaterasu and it would be GG.

[Nar123]

Kurapika is amazing but Sasuke is better 

 

 

u wot m8

 

The original is always better than the copy 

 

 

 

 

In fact pretty much anything in HxH is better than in Naruto, it's a shame that Togashi is sooo lazy 

Edited by Nar123, 08 May 2015 - 04:15 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

man...Atheck and Nar123 - it's hard to keep up. but you guys seem to be doing it. normally I would ask for spoiler threads, but I think it would only complicate things. so, debate away!

 

That's why this is a discussion thread, I'd suppose, babe. Better to let 'em do it here above all else.

 

Also, seeing Chi's drawing of Sachi, I keep thinking about my Naruto fanon, and if I would do other kids for it. I want to do some more snippets for it and to post it on my Tumblr to share, especially since there's stuff I want to tell for the upcoming SasuKarin month, like the birth of their oldest, Sosuke.

[Atheck]

Canon says Tsunade created the technique, the rest is speculation

Canon establishes no such thing anywhere. Tsunade's statement, and I quote, "It's a forbidden jutsu that only I know how to use." This might lead some to arrive at the conclusion that the technique was somehow manufactured by Tsunade. After all, she claims to be the only one who knows how to use it. Well the same could be said of various other techniques that had only one user at some point such as the Rasengan, Chidori/Raikiri, Shiki Fujin, Hiraishi (prior to Minato or his guards acquiring it).

Creation Rebirth/Byakugou is no sooner a personal private technique of Tsunade's because of her immodesty and need to intimidate the enemy through claims of immortality than Hiraishin belonging to Minato prior to the discovery of other users like Tobirama.

Oh, and just for your information, the technical name of the seal is "Byakugō no In". It correlates to the relationship shared between it and Creation Rebirth/Byakugou, even before any techniques are unleashed. Which means that if Mito was aware of the name specifically, what would it mean to her? Is it just a distinctive sounding reservoir of chakra? I doubt it. The Uzumaki clan is renowned for possessing high vitality and long life expectancies. For any technique that's dependent on how great in size your life force is, being an Uzumaki would be of use. It's somewhat of a stretch, but it demonstrates how Mito is familiar with the name of the same ability the seal develops into.

[Atheck]

You mean if Kishi retconned the fact of Tsunade created the creation rebirth technique? No he still didn't do it.

According to the respective feats of Byakuou/Creation and its sister affiliated ability, Hashirama's regeneration, if you want to take the notion "regeneration" literally, it's already been retconned when they acted uncertain enough through their choice of actions to not rely on senjutsu/Byakugou to create entirely new limbs for themselves/Naruto. Of course, I was always skeptical of the idea of Tsunade's Byakugou excreting limbs and organs from damaged bloodied stumps or empty cavities where there isn't even a single viable tissue cell remaining for it to evolve complexly to remould the exact shape, size, design, and functions of limbs/organs.

It was a dubious claim to begin with, but with the characters who should be able to accomplish them opting for alternatives when it should be so easy to regenerate at the cost of not much chakra, at least to Tsunade's arrogant claim of "never dying in battle", there's reason to believe that it's not as powerful as someone would argue. You're implying that an ability giving pseudo-immortality in combat that renders you incapable of dying is so taxing on chakra reserves and vitality that the users would be reluctant to actually use it? At the end of the manga, Tsunade wasn't even in danger of attack from some enemy, yet she chose to take the more difficult option of studying Hashirama's cells and then undergoing the time consuming process of making a completely new arm with all of the functions of a regular arm.

In fights, you're obligated to show feats anyway, not blindly cling to boastful comments and take them as an undeniable God's honest truth. Tsunade claimed to be able to reconstruct damaged organs and limbs, but there are no feats to speak of except for damaged spinal cords and midsection that only remotely prove its applicability in combat.
 

The Mito thing is pure speculation, it's just confirmed that she had the strenght of a hundred seal and that is considered the pinnacle of chakra control derived from years storing chakra in a specific point however the only ones known to release the seal and use that for the creation rebirth technique are Sakura and Tsunade.

So from what I understand of this section of your post, your conclusion made is that Mito developed a magical chakra preserving seal, somehow, with no material or teacher confirmed to exist who might have guided her along, only for her to keep it as an accessory. Well, that's the logical conclusion to make from "the only ones known to release the seal". She would keep a reservoir of chakra available on her forehead for no reason other than... Well, for extra chakra? She's an Uzumaki with all of the Kyuubi's power lying dormant inside of her. You'll forgive me if I find that meaningless.

What stands to reason is her knowledge of the name of the seal, and the techniques derived from it that happen to share in said name. There would be no other incentive to keep the seal if it's limited strictly to being a third power source for a woman who is already a chakra behemoth for being able to contain all of the Kyuubi.
 

I agree, though it depends quite a far in the oppponent fight style, if the oponent can fight at a distance I would put Tsunade at low Kage status if vlose combat is involved I would put her at mid Kage level

Why would close quarters combat allow Tsunade to challenge mid S-rank opponents? Her actual technique and methodology is the equivalent of a hulkish slugging boxer. There's no pivots, no grapples, no joint locks, no concurrent attacks - she has difficulty adjusting herself to the movements of her opponent. Some fans may vouch for her taijutsu aptitude because of the perfect "5" in stats, but the evidence in-manga paints a different picture. To me, Tsunade is just a glorified Sakura who brazenly charges headfirst into battle without much leeway to adapt to the circumstances of the battle and of her opponent's own fighting style. Tank and heal is the rule of thumb for Tsunade and her apprentice.

Rock Lee fighting against Kimimaro was a more impressive display of complex technique and martial arts discipline than anything Tsunade has ever exhibited in the manga. She's the same girl who was placed into a vulnerable state after attempting to kick Kabuto, who doesn't excel at taijutsu to begin with; granted, he had taken a soldier pill prior and she was rusty. But for a Sannin's first battle on-screen? It's not all that impressive that she's being pressured by Part 1 Kakashi tier enemies.
 

I don't agree, you are understimating one of the sannin,

No, I just recognise her limitations as a fighter. The only claim to recognition in battle that she has is Byakugou and straight undeviating attacks packaged with chakra. The three aforementioned examples of middle S-rank tier characters have multiple ways to put her down.

Tell me, how do you expect Tsunade to survive once Kisame fuses with Samehada and unleashes water dome? Osmoregulation allows for Katsuyu to absorb only so much water before the cells begin to expand and eventually burst. So summoning is out of the question unless Tsunade wants Katsuyu to die. And Tsunade is not known for being some unnatural swimming athlete on steroids that can match the 110 km/h sailfish. She's going to be toyed with since any chakra touching Kisame is absorbed and human movements become sluggish underwater. No chakra means no CES and so she's left flailing, having been taken out of her element element. That's assuming he doesn't outpace her in close quarters combat in base, which he very well could, seeing how he was capable of going head to head with Asuma and blocking one or two of Base Guy's attacks.

Raikage is much too fast for her to react to. Moreover, he's one of the most resistant non-jinchuuriki characters in the series - couple that with his Raiton armour and Tsunade's punches will feel like just another heavyweight jab in the stomach, not that Tsunade is capable of reacting to him. Raikage is one of the few characters who can actually dodge Amaterasu. Against him, she will literally be ragdolled all over the battlefield, unable to react against the Raikage

Itachi's victory in CQC should go without saying. He outmanoeuvred Hebi Sasuke in taijutsu and held his own against Killer Bee of all people as an edo tensei zombie. I don't care how much you inflate Tsunade's so called "skills" in taijutsu, she's not on par with Bee who is second only to Guy in raw skill barring jinchuuriki amplification. That's not including his Sharingan and counterattacks which, if necessary, I will cite.

So regardless of whatever distance there is between herself and the opponent, Tsunade is at a disadvantage. She believed that Part 1 Kabuto drugged up on soldier pills might be a superior ninja compared to her in her prime. That uppermost ceiling has a clearcut benchmark now, and it's fairly low since Base Kabuto is only A-rank in capability.
 

I think you are mistaking one of the Sakura vs fodder fights with Tsunade fight style, if you paid attention she is quite fast and dynamic even with her skillset. Agility coupled with super strenght and instant regeneration is still a pretty powerful blow dealer and tank, just wacth or read Madara vs the Kages where all of the kages play a pivotal part to defeat Madara Susanoo army though they still lose in the end

I acknowledge that Tsunade's speed is decent for someone who doesn't specialise in speed, but how is she fast compared to high tier shinobi? Both Orchimaru and Kabuto were not hit once by any of her strikes until catching the latter off-guard as he was adjusting his glasses. She's almost attacked by Kabuto who quickly adjusted to his synapses being jumbled, and Jiraiya's group appears to stop him. She then charges headfirst once again but proceeds to fold under her phobia of blood before getting thrown back by Kabuto striking her. It takes some time for her to overcome her phobia as we see that her pain threshold is very high when exposed to the proper emotional stimuli. She forces Orochimaru back, who wasn't expecting her to overcome the phobia. Then summoning happens, Katusuyu is almost eaten alive by Manda, Tsunade disappears then reappears out of nowhere to catch an unsuspecting Manda with Gamabunta's tanto, and finally she uses Orochimaru's conveniently wrapped tongue to propel him up to her position for a direct strike to the face that he was smiling off shortly afterward.

Fast forward hundreds of chapters later, Madara did nothing but haughtily stand in place awaiting her to reach him and strike his Susanoo when he could have easily dodged her. This is the same man who was blitzing an entire army of shinobi and required Gaara's sand to restrain him before defending himself seriously. So we know Madara has terrifying skill, acuity, and speed. Tsunade then proceeds to kick Susanoo in conjunction with the other Kages' attacks, punches a Mokuton clone, gets impaled, feints being unconscious to counterattack instead of utilising those super high-speed instantaneous reflexes, is challenged by five Mokuton clones, can later be seen punching one Susanoo with two blades in her abdomen (it should be noted that none of the other fighters had suffered such grievous damage to their body), coughs up blood and collapses from overexertion (as the Raikage was still fighting, by the way, who notes how sloppy her fighting was), amplifies Onoki's Jinton, and then knocks away some Katon projectiles before getting bifurcated off-screen.

This summarises her two fights against competent shinobi. Now tell me, what impressive feats out of all those combat scenarios should lead me to believe in this silly notion of her being "dynamic" and "fast"? Nothing, really. Because tanking and punching while landing surprise attacks on enemies who thought she was down is the extent of her combat expertise. I don't see any complex leg or arm movements, no impressive displays of avoidance, no diverse movesets. What is the extent of martial arts training? Does she know Karate or Aikido? What amazing taijutsu feats has Tsunade accomplished that would lead someone to believe that she's not just a brawler who knows how to kick on occasion? She confessed that Kabuto whom she may be superior to a hypothetical Tsunade in her prime. Being on-par with Kabuto during Part 1 is a good milestone, but he's nothing special come Part 2. All of the Akatsuki, with the possible exceptions of Zetsu and Hidan, are stronger than Base Kabuto, as is Hebi Sasuke.

Getting back to Tsunade, her one distinctive feature is Katsuyu, but that would be her slug ally fighting in her place.
 

About Sakura, yeah taking out the Sasori fight, the impression someone can see from her fight style is what you described, it would be bettter if Kishi applied more diverse knowledge ( either physical or strategical in her battle set) and didn't make her look so useless most of the times she is on scene

She needed a preemptive analysis of Sasori's fighting tactics spanning from #265-270 when she finally began to grasp the movements of the Iron Sand on her own. The battle began in earnest during #265 until the last plunge in Sasori's heart during #274. That's over half of the battle playing second fiddle under Chiyo, not to mention the other moments where she needed assistance in later chapters following #270.

Every other time where she was confronted by an opponent or attack, except for Itachi's Katon and Base Kabuto's weapon barrage, she's been protected by the hands of others with more talent and reflexes than herself. Her combat tactics are more predictable than Tsunade's because it can be condensed down to her rushing her enemy, enemy is bound in place due to PIS, and she either lands a rudimentary punch with heavy power or she's damaged by a non-serious injury instead of carrying out the logical strategy which is tearing her body apart with more powerful abilities.

I've said this before and I will say it again - Sakura suffers from what's called deer-in-the-headlights syndrome. You place her in a spontaneous situation that can't be analysed by her for some prior amount of time that requires immediate reflexive talent and she's helpless to act. She doesn't give much confidence when her last actual taijutsu bout with another shinobi consisted of getting jumped kicked by Omoi the Chunin.

Frankly, her feats of CQC talent and dexterity are even weaker than Introduction arc Sasuke's who at least successfully caught a holding back Base Kakashi by surprise. Oh, and let's not forget his showmanship against the Demon Brothers. Sasuke's taijutsu and skillset was arguably Chunin tier far back as the Land of Waves arc.
 

Not really, the seond ninja war was bloody, to simply brush that off as well that was just a moniker some random guy named Hanzo gave them is stupid. If Hanzo of the salamander gave them that nickname then you bet their actions in the war were pretty awesome, we managed to see a little of Hanzo's personality unfortunately thanks to the stupid idea of creating an edo tensei army, as you saw it's not a frivoulous personality

Yes, it was bloody, and thousands of others from different nationalities partook in it as well. It's too bad we can't use the 2nd ninja war for evidentiary feats on Tsunade's combat style. However, looking back over the chapter, there is some mild accomplishment to the moniker being granted to them. Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsuande were the only survivors amongst a carnage of nameless fodder who opposed Hanzo. I suppose that's something, albeit it isn't much. Unfortunately, there's no other hints of additional qualifications for the title besides superiority over fodder.

The title of Sannin origin

The "Sannin" likely don't even have their current arsenals. Look at Jiraiya specifically, he has no frogs infused on his shoulders and it's unlikely that he would have SM back then. If he did, his performance should have improved considerably if three of Pain's paths could be defeated simultaneously. The last picture Jiraiya had of Tsunade before their reunion in the Search for Tsunade arc depicted her without the the seal, so it's highly likely that she didn't have her seal during that fight either. Whatever accomplishments she had off-screen are inadmissible because we didn't see them. You might as well be shooting in the dark, asserting how she's won because of these superb feats that were accomplished decades ago which Base Kabuto is comparable to.
 

I agree... but I would've added some changes to your chart
I think that Guy fighting seriously (without unleashing all out and dying) is mid-kage level at least, I think he would tie up with Tsunade since rule of close combat as well as base Jiraya who almost died by Tsunade's hand at one point

With the Byakugou? Yes, she might force a draw with Base Guy since his attacks are concussive based. But Guy is much faster and vastly more skilled than Tsunade - the most impressive taijutsu user ever seen, by Madara's admittance. It will be through a war of attrition that any draw is forced.

Base Jiraiya? Doubtful. His speed outpaces Tsunade's by a whole tier and he has a plethora of jutsu that can kill or immobilise her. Kebari Senbon, his fastest jutsu, Wild Lion's Mane technique, it inflicts piercing damage all across the body and was powerful enough to mutilate a medium-sized summoning, and Yomi Numa. The latter she can't overpower through brute force alone since it's a submersible pit of chakra-infused mud that ensnared a path of Pain and a summoning. There's nothing to use for a stepping stone unless she chooses to summon Katsuyu which is quickly sunk as well (a feat that should be achievable for a healthy Jiraiya) and the no-summoning restriction is immediately removed for Jiraiya.
 

Kakashi also got stronger than her after he developed the Kamui

Kakashi has the advantage in speed, versatility, and skill. However, unless he mutilates her, plants a kunai into her skull as he did to several Sound shinobi, or can damage her body enough with Raikiri, she may win via war of attrition. Kakashi in Part 1 was largely out of practice. In Part 2, his chakra supply and jutsu arsenal has expanded to such a degree that he could take on partially transformed bijuu. The Raiton canine immobilises Tsunade, an advantage that Kakashi will not overlook by plunging a Raikiri into her cranium which he did attempt against God Realm.
 

You talk as if dodging that iron sand was easy LOL.

It's a mass of iron being thrown at you, not Obito's phasing ability. How did you pull intricacy from that? Sakura needed to analyse Sasori's finger movements because her inherent reaction skills weren't enough to dodge the attacks immediately as they were delivered.
 

Nevertheless that battle was a team effort, Chiyo wouldn't be able to win without Sakura and Sakura wouldn't be able to win without Chiyo. I advise you to read the battle again and to pay attention on Chiyo's praise of Sakura's fighting abilities
and analytical mind

I have reread the battle, several times actually. In fact, the battle is open to me on another tab as we speak.

You refer to the battle as though it were a concerted effort where both fighters contributed equally, they didn't. Chiyo took on the majority of the work, and the lion's share of Sakura's efforts were only achievable through Chiyo steering her along. Destroying the Hiruko puppet and avoiding the senbon? Possible only through Chiyo controlling her body. Defending against the various other attacks released by the Kazekage puppet up until a certain point after the geometrical Iron Sand projectiles were being unleashed? Once again, only achievable because of Chiyo. The one hundred puppets? Sakura has three panels, literally just three panels comprised of her punching a a single toy when the White Puppets come to her aid as the claws of another one of Sasori's is arcing downward towards her back.

Over 55-60% of that battle was fought with Chiyo at the forefront until #670, protecting Sakura. The other 40% saw Sakura participating separately here and there, but with Chiyo still handling the majority of the legwork. Chiyo praised her analytic skills, complimenting Tsunade for her student. Then there was that comment about how she should be down after fighting for so long, followed up by some foreshadowing of her surpassing Tsunade that never truly paid off because of Kishi's incompetence as a writer.
 

It's also fair to say that both of them managed to defeat Sasori first puppet quite easily, unlike say...Kankuro

Different methodologies and circumstances. Kankuro fighting against Sasori with puppetry is the equivalent to a novice boxer using fisticuffs to overpower a heavyweight wrestler champion. Moreover, Sasori was not taking into account that Sakura could avoid the senbon due to Chiyo as well until the very last moment as her fist was coming down upon the Hiruko puppet.

Comparing Chiyo to Kankuro was faulty to begin with. There's a vast gap in experience, talent, and weaponry you seemed to conveniently overlook.
 

I won't argue with that. Though I would say this weakness on the heat of the moment thing is mostly only present when she is near Sasuke unfortunately.

Sasuke wasn't on his mind, neither was he even in the same country as Sakura when she needed to be pulled from the fire of the Mokuton barrage by Kakashi. She blunders whether he's present or not. And if she can't react to a sharp piece of wood that Hinata was repelling, how do you expect her to not be blitzed by Hebi Sasuke?
 

And I don't really know what "in depth discussion" you are talking about

It took place one month ago. Here's a link to the conversation, if you're curious...

http://www.narusaku....=55#entry795201
 

but Sakura and Chiyo both won fair and square against Sasori, S ranked, at the time,

No, they won due to Sasori eventually turning suicidal. She outright admitted that he saw her last attack coming, but chose not to avoid it.

Chiyo on Sasori" s defeat

Just as a reminder, Sakura acknowledged Chiyo for being the one to win the battle, and Chiyo's following statement reinforces that it was her participation which was most important.

[Atheck]

I would put her at least on low to mid jonin level

Low to mid Jonin tier is where Base Kabuto, Part 1 CS2 Sasuke, 1TK Naruto and Asuma stand. Sakura doesn't have what it takes to defeat any one of those men at her early Shippuden incarnation, and I'm inclined to believe that her taijutsu aptitude is even weaker if she couldn't react to a simple kick from Omoi. Even high Chunin tier may be too much since that's where I have the stronger members of the Sound 4 like Kidomaru at.
 

anf after getting the byakugou/ creation rebirth combo on high jonin to low kage level

Let's leave it at high Jonin since Byakugou Sakura has mostly stamina feats with only two feats pertaining to strength. Decapitation, mutilation, and disembowelment are effective strategies to disabling/killing her.
 

This inherent weakness is deeply associated to Sasuke, and I agree with this.
She could peform quite well in any battle where there is no Sasuke's involvement

Where did you arrive at that conclusion? She never had a full-fledged battle after Sasori. In fact, the next time she throws a punch against a human opponent was Karui (not counting when she punched Sai), and she failed spectacularly when Omoi promptly kicked her away. Following the Kumo Chunin, she dodges a disguised Zetsu fodder in conjunction with a back elbow attack, and afterwards needed Kakashi to rescue her from the Mokuton barrage. She accomplishes little else in-battle aside from dodging an acid spill that was falling at the speed of gravitational acceleration, 9.81 m/s. And before you cite her breaking Kaguya's horn, we're discussing other statistical facets besides strength.

Nothing gives the impression of Sakura being any more skilled of a fighter in later arc. She has additional chakra, auto-healing, and a stronger punch, but that's the extent of her progress.
 

Not only Deidara is one of the weakest member of the Akatsuki

Not according to the manga that I used to read. He defeated Part 2 Gaara who carried a massive home field advantage with the added benefit of Ichibi protecting him. Or did you just skim over that bit of the manga? Deidara was in the middle rank of Akatsuki members, inferior only to Itachi, Obito, and Pain. Kisame and Kakuzu are debatable, but to imply that Zetsu and Hidan could defeat him? No other Zetsu except Spiral is going to challenge him in any substantial manner. Hidan is limited to his scythe. Remove his head and he's rendered completely helpless. Konan's only feats barring prep time, which she had against Tobi, amount to throwing a barrage of D-rank paper shuriken at Jiraiya that he avoided before failing to dodge his oil binding technique. Deidara's bombs are flammable so she's doesn't want to be caught in one.
 

but Sasuke also had the prior advantage of being able to foil his main and unique form of atack with his raiton technique,

The electric properties of Raiton certainly played an integral role in Sasuke's strategy, as did his Sharingan in discerning where they were located, but there were still the issues of getting close to Deidara who was airborne, avoiding the bombs as they came, and tricking Deidara into believing that he was dead with genjutsu. Let's not overlook Sasuke tanking a huge explosion from an explosive missile with only a wing destroyed. He was so fast that Deidara admitted he couldn't keep up and needed to resort to his C2 dragon.

However, I also acknowledge that this is strictly Base Hebi Sasuke, so the Curse Seal is off-limits. Sakura's fighting style is not complicated whatsoever like Deidara's. If he uses Raiton against her, it will be to immobilise or inflict bodily damage.
 

yet at the end if not for his asspull escape, Sasuke would've died

No questions here. It was a contrived way for an exhausted Sasuke to escape certain death.
 

Frankly I kind agree, but you think to logically about the battle, it's not always like that. For example one punch by Tsunade would probably be enough to KO or disable Hebi!Sasuke

Not unless Sasuke blitzes and damages her so badly with Kusanagi that she has no limbs or internal organs to speak of. If you want to push it, he decapitates her.

Don't forget about Sasuke's Oral Rebirth ability. He can shed his skin should he somehow get attacked.
 

And we are talking about Hebi!Sasuke here aren't we, his feats are still below Tsunade, an experienced ninja war veteran.

They really aren't. She has an impressive recovery ability that allows her to fight recklessly - as Madara put it when he confronted the bijuu with only Hashirama's Sage Mode available - but there's nothing truly different about her style of fighting. Her strength and tactics are the same as before. Byakugou doesn't grant any speed increases. She can bat away Katon projectiles, and that's the extent of the "newness" with Tsunade.

Konan is technically a war veteran as well. She was in the dirt and mud in one of the most inhospitable and impoverished countries on the continent. Alongside her teammates, she clawed her way up to the top in the original Akatsuki organisation. That doesn't make her superior to the likes of Itachi and Kisame, though, does it?
 

Itachi could've won that battle any time he want, Sasuke didn't pressured him, he let Sasuke win. Not counting his illness, etc

Not counting his illness, you say? Hmm... I agree, Itachi would have won more easily than he did, but not without some difficulty in the process. Keep in mind- Sasuke didn't have CS2 fully active throughout the entire fight. In fact, the only times he used it were to break Tsukuyomi and when he was angry at Itachi for having survived Kirin. In that clash of fire attacks, I can see CS2 Sasuke stalemating healthy Itachi.
 

And also if anyone should fight Itachi someone with a bijuu or a sharingan would be the best option since they can counter the effects of the mangekyou

Three tomoe Sharingan is enough against most opponents. Sakura is outclassed completely and Tsunade would have the struggle of her life, and that's under the assumption Itachi doesn't cut off her head while trapped in a genjutsu.
 

Show me then, I don't have the raws

Gladly...

Raw page

Try comparing the writing characters in the second from the left row within the largest speech bubble against the Kanji used for Rokkankin below.
 

Not Kabuto, Orochimaru did with the Kunasagi sword

Orochimaru lascerated her shoulder region with a sword slice. It's not made specifically clear if it penetrated all of the way through to the bone.
 

She was still intact due to creation rebirth, a normal ninja wouldn't be able to survive that,

This essentially means that the cration rebirth kept Tsunade body from giving out and was constantly regenerating the torso wounds at the moment, given the position of the swords it's higly unlikely that it didn't pierce any organ, the fact that Tsunade was fine after that shows us that the organs were healed and reconstructed

Those blades were wedged deep inside of Tsunade's body they must have been acting like a pseudo-tourniquet/body cast, preventing her blood and organs from spilling out onto the ground. Your assertion that she was kept in tact through Byakugou would mean that she either regenerated her organs in their usual place, which would entail forcing out those blades occupying that region of her body, or Tsunade's entire biologic layout can shift at the drop of a hat so that her intestines and kidneys are all bunched up together either where her stomach or the uterus is, depending on whether they shifted upwards or downwards. If that were the case, I would consider Tsunade to be a scientific anomaly. How is that possible? I guess Byakugou is just so amazing it can literally rearrange the human body's innards without any negative repercussions at all, and that's not even in the job description.
 

as it was showed when Obito made the juubi attack with his spikes and killed a lot of people from the alliance.

I think that scene was intended to demonstrate the extremes Obito would sink to for his cause, to instill fear into the Alliance, and make Naruto realise that he cannot save everyone. Various other characters have managed to continue going with similarly extreme physical trauma, at least for a while. For example, Zabuza was still standing and fighting Gato's men after his arms were rendered unusable and his back was brutalised with spears jutting out. He wasn't even a medical ninja. Tsunade had the benefit of an auto-restorative technique that stemmed the blow of blood and damage to her body.
 

Really ? It's a given if she is reconstructing organs then recreation of tissue is involved, if she is recreating tissue then celular regeneration/duplication is involved, it's really simple,chakra is just the raw material such process uses to happen

You see, the thing is, it's not as advanced or impressive as you make it out to be. Recall what I mentioned earlier about Tsunade healing a wound in Naruto's hand that penetrated clean through and out of the opisthenar region of the hand? Well, given the general positioning of the kunai, I would say it pierced through the metacarpal bones and the interossei muscles around the fingers. All damage inflicted there, that knife sized hole in Naruto's hand, was sealed and mended by a regular Mystical Palm technique. And having gone back over the chapter, I forgot about Kabuto's statement how he sapped the chakra in Naruto's heart and removed circulation of his blood to the heart. Again, all healed by Mystical Palm.

Here are pages depicting the injury caused to Naruto's hand and Tsunade healing it...

Hand being impaled, then healed

[Atheck]

It's even more obvious when one of the side effects of the creation rebirth is the reduction of life span, why? Because constant and immediate healing with cells regeneration wear up the body more

You extracted that drawback from Shizune, yes? Well here's the exact wording, "The number of times each human cell can multiply is limited. If she quickens the process, it only means she's shortening her own life."

Her specification of the "regenerative" process seems odd, don't you think? Multiply human cells? It gives the implication that a base of cells is required for the organ to be healed. After all, you can't multiply something by zero and receive anything but zero, can you? This leads me to conclude that you're prized organ and limb regeneration without already existent material still in-tact is impossible. Well, I don't believe Byakugou can turn a small fragment of a heart into a full one, but such limitations aren't the complete focal point of the conversation, anyway.
 

Theoretically, as long as she has a sample of the tissue of the organ and chakra she would be able to do it, as such is the nature of cell regeneration

And theoretically, I could dispute that Kurenai is top tier in genjutsu and Hiruzen is more powerful than any other Kage in existence. Doesn't make the claims any more viable. If we adhered to your logic and took it to the extreme, Tsunade would be popping back into existence from a single cell à la the DBZ villain.

Well, my point about the lack of any visible on-screen feats and hesitancy to spawn limbs for Naruto via Byakugou transference when it would be a much easier process still stands.
 

However, if some organ was completely wiped out or if her neural system was affected hard enough then yeah, the creation reirth would be useless

If the heart was removed she would most likely die before she could do anything else , she has amazing regeneration but she is still human unlike Naruto and Sasuke in God mode

I'm surprised. Previously you were claiming that any limb or organ could grow back regardless of their physical state or quantity of cells. Now you've conceded that some baseline for the magic spawning technique to work is necessary. I suppose that's something. Oh, and charring that heart of hers until it's an incinerated husk would probably have the same effect.
 

Of course not, if the damage was hat extensive the chakra wouldn't be able to handle the output for the regeneration and she would die by the damge or by chakra exhaustion

That's another consensus reached about Byakugou's limitations. Counting bones, muscles, and organs, the human body would have to regenerate close to a thousand parts, or 100 trillion cells. Majin Buu and Cell are the only characters that come to mind who are capable of that, and they're not even human.
 

If the damage was HIGH enough then yes the regeneration would probably help stabilize the wound but it wouldn't regrow because that would require too much chakra

She's going to die whether her heart or liver is stablised or not. Closing up an entry wound or some upper arm muscles is one thing, but essential organs need to be functioning for the human body to survive.
 

The big question is.... would he be able to do it so easily? The constant regeneration would help a lot and probably heal most of Sasuke attacks if he was fighting in close distance until Tsunade inevitably attacked him with one of her enpowerd taijutsu move and shattered his bones

Yes - because Sasuke's base speed is a whole tier above Tsunade's. Surprising Yamato and a CS2 user are more quantifiable than Tsunade rushing a casual Madara standing in place for several panels. She's going to be blitzed whether she likes it or not. We also can't overlook Sasuke's ability to transfer Raiton into his Katana, enhancing its cutting power. I wouldn't be surprised if he bifurcated her with one swipe, probably electrocuting her internal organs in the process due to the Raiton. Whatever jabs she attempts, as long as he dodges, he's safe, and Chidori Nagashi is always available to paralyse her.
 

Kind of the same situation where Tsunade had her torso pieced, I wouldn't doubt one of her organs in her midsection was completely trashed

No, they're not really comparable to each other. Ban's entire stomach cavity was obliterated. There were no swords embedded in him off-screen. We actually saw the spear grind through his body and out his back. In Tsunade's condition, she was pierced off-screen and we can't tell what the exact condition of her innards are like. Should they be badly damaged? Definitely. Have they been reduced to a paltry state? Well, not if my explanation about the organs remaining in a decent enough condition inside of her body was accurate.
 

And I keep sayint the same thing over and over again but theoretically it would be possible to reconstruct as long as there is a sample of tissue left, if the tissue that covers the stomach for example could be found in other place of th ebody then yes, with enough chakra it would be recreated

Is that all you can repeat is "theoretically"? We're not talking about theoreticals, notional, or untested. If there's no on-screen panels depicting her carrying out these extreme feats you keep giving her then it's inadmissible. You're not going to see hearts, or liver, or pancreas, or stomach materialisating itself from cells without already existent parts. Can injuries such as a perforated lung be restored? Yes. But creating large organ pieces and limbs from little material? No.
 

Really ? It's a given if she is reconstructing organs then recreation of tissue is involved, if she is recreating tissue then celular regeneration/duplication is involved, it's really simple,chakra is just the raw material such process uses to happen
.

Mending some damaged organs is not the question. The Mystical Palm has performed feats like like closing a gaping hole in bone, ligaments, and muscle in the hand. It also healed the entire epidermal layer of skin. I'm challenging the notion of internal organs that have been mutilated or damaged in any substantial manner being treatable.
 

It's even more obvious when one of the side effects of the creation rebirth is the reduction of life span, why? Because constant and immediate healing with cells regeneration wear up the body more

This part doesn't require a separate rebuttal since you're just repeating yourself now.

"You extracted that drawback from Shizune, yes? Well here's the exact wording, "The number of times each human cell can multiply is limited. If she quickens the process, it only means she's shortening her own life."

Her specification of the "regenerative" process seems odd, don't you think? Multiply human cells? It gives the implication that a base of cells is required for the organ to be healed. After all, you can't multiply something by zero and receive anything but zero, can you? This leads me to conclude that you're prized organ and limb regeneration without already existent material still in-tact is impossible. Well, I don't believe Byakugou can turn a small fragment of a heart into a full one, but such limitations aren't the complete focal point of this portion of the conversation."
 

Yes, because they need chakra to do that, chakra is limited, overuse of chakra to regrow somethig would lead to exhaustion and death so yeah the creaton rebirth isn't like Majin buu, Cell or Ban abilities because it depends on a limited resource

You do understand that sage chakra is created through the admixture natural energy with spiritual and physical energy, correct? Hashirama confessed to his chakra reserves being comparable with the Kyuubi's. It stands to reason that the resultant chakra amount would be made from equally large physical and spiritual energies. No matter how small the amount he extracted from Hashirama, Madara's senjutsu supply would be massive, greater than Naruto's most likely.

So why is it that a single arm would exhaust so much chakra if it were possible to grow? Furthermore, Tsunade has had plenty of time to regather her strength between months after the war. An arm should be simple to "regenerate". There's no consequence to her using chakra since there's no conflict presently going on.
 

And I already argued about Madara and those "attachments" that happened

Yes, and I recall telling you that what Madara did was not regeneration. He attached arm with all of its existing, presumably in-tact, blood vessels and innards to his body. Nothing was created from a basic tissue baseline.
 

All of them retcons, that were changed after it, blame Kishi for it
however the fact that Tsunade created the creation rebirth is still undeniable, saying otherwise is pure speculation

It's established information in canonical sources, though. Just like Tsunade's magical perk enabling her to pop up limbs and internal organs.

I'll reiterate...

"Canon establishes no such thing anywhere. Tsunade's statement, and I quote, "It's a forbidden jutsu that only I know how to use." This might some to arrive at the conclusion that the technique was somehow manufactured by Tsunade. After all, she claims to be the only one who knows how to use it. Well the same could be said of various other techniques that had only one user at some point such as the Rasengan, Chidori/Raikiri, Shiki Fujin, Hiraishi (prior to Minato or his guards acquiring it).

Creation Rebirth/Byakugou is no sooner personal private technique of Tsunade's because of her immodesty and need to intimidate the enemy through claims of immortality than Hiraishin belonging to Minato prior to the discovery of other users like Tobirama.

Oh, and just for your information, the technical name of the seal is "Byakugō no In". It correlates to the relationship shared between it and Creation Rebirth/Byakugou, even before any techniques are unleashed. Which means that if Mito was aware of the name specifically, what would it mean to her? Is it just a distinctive sounding reservoir of chakra? I doubt it. The Uzumaki clan is renowned for possessing high vitality and long life expectancies. For any technique that's dependent on how great in size your life force is, being an Uzumaki would be of use. It's somewhat of a stretch, but it demonstrates how Mito is familiar with the name of the same ability the seal develops into."
 

Not really, but in any case
We saw the byakugou recreating tissue, and etc, healing heavy internal damage, reattaching limbs and we maybe saw it recreating a limb too. So it wasn't really just hype as you tried to put

"Maybe saw it recreating a limb" occurred no where within the manga, unless you can offer up proof that says otherwise. But the other suggested accomplishments like recreating tissue and heavy internal damage? I can't really dispute that. Reattaching limbs? That did not take place exactly, at least not in the manner which Madara replaced his lost appendage. The slugs, with Suigetsu's help, were carefully piecing together the two halves of Tsunade's body. What Madara did was quickly swipe off Zetsu's arm, then roughly attach it to his stump. Tsunade did not have her Byakugou active at the time. Katsuyu was funneling healing ability through to everyone.
 

If Tsunade didn't take all of the hits ( it was a lot) the kages would heve sustained serious damages. Such is the power of the creationn rebirth that the burns didn't even affect her that much

Madara used 5 different Katon projectiles. The intensity of the flames wasn't established. Claiming that they would severely injure the Kages when Tsunade's arms were entirely burned is speculation.

Byakugou doesn't instantaneously restore injuries, either. If that were so, the tissue and muscle in Tsunade's body would be remoulding itself constantly as she was stabbed or sliced. Some measure of time elapses before the injuries are restored. Madara's Katons would have already burned through skin and muscle if the temperature was severe enough.

[Atheck]

C'mon, you know who Orochimaru is don't you? That guy is a monster, he can shed of his old body like a snake sheds off it's skin...

He's a monster who's renowned for his durability? That wasn't even his face. It was the likeness of some random Grass Genin. A highly concentrated stream of fire was incapable of completely melting that away. How is this element's general technique set deemed impressive?
 

About your accounts of flame justus being useless...

http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/560/4
It only needed like dozens of water justu to stop it ...

You cited one of the few exceptions that was emitted from the most powerful Uchiha to ever live besides Sasuke. Of course, that isn't to say every Katon jutsu released by Madara is going to be extremely powerful. Gōka Mekkyaku's most significant advantage is the scope of the flames. Any single shinobi who can't release an equally wide and potent Suiton would be burned alive as the huge swathe of flames envelops them.
 

The burns were caused by the bijuu chakra itself, of course the time to heal would be longer

Naruto's body was in a constant state of damage and restoration. The corrosivity of the shroud should have been gradually decreasing as the bijuu chakra amount was being suppressed. At a certain point, if only brief, there should no longer be a physical manifestation of the chakra, just the 0TK state which happens to carry healing abilities as well.
 

Tsunade had help of the creation rebirth , that's why the burns didn't look like it affected her that much

Not really, read "constant regeneration"

A huge acceleration

"Byakugou doesn't instantaneously restore injuries, either. If that were so, the tissue and muscle in Tsunade's body would be remoulding itself constantly as she was stabbed or sliced. Some measure of time elapses before the injuries are restored. Madara's Katons would have already burned through skin and muscle if the temperature was severe enough."

Adding onto my already given responce, it would be impossible for any attack to penetrate through the ligaments, skin, and muscle with a literal instant accelerated regeneration because of the tissue and material being replaced at the exact moment of impact. You would just be tearing away endlessly at human flesh that appears on the afflicted area.

Well, we already saw recreating tissue for internal organs

We didn't actually see the degree of damage inflicted by those attacks. The Susanoo swords were wedged in place that would restrict any spillage. An exact quantity of tissue multiplication is unknown. But creating almost completely new organs from segments seems unlikely. She would have needed to mend the organs back together, otherwise Tsunade's body would clog with fragmented innards hanging uselessly.
 

The nature of cell regeneration says that it would be possible to bring limbs back with enough chakra as long as there is a sample of tissue to be used left but as we were never exactlyt shown that's why I say theoretically,

"Is that all you can repeat is "theoretically"? We're not talking about theoreticals, notional, or untested. If there's no on-screen panels depicting her carrying out these extreme feats you keep giving her then it's inadmissible. You're not going to see hearts, or liver, or pancreas, or stomach materialisating itself from cells without already existent parts. Can injuries such as a perforated lung be restored? Yes. But creating large organ pieces and limbs from little material? It's questionable at best."

well there is that Madara scene, one could argue thaat the bykaugou that made such restoration possible

Madara doesn't have Byakugou. It's the equatable senjutsu Hashirama had that made the attachment of everything inside the arm to Madara's stump possible, you mean.
 

It's possible for a organ to be damaged and destroyed from within and not all heavy injuries are apparent

Yes, that's true, it's just too bad Kishi didn't offer a diagnosis for their specific conditions. We have only speculatory comments about them being close to death to judge them by.
 

Blame Kisimoto fr never shwing us...

I do hold Kishi responsible for not meeting up to expectations, in more ways than one. But I'm not going to cling onto comments with no substantial proof in the manga to justify the extremist hype.
 

however theoretically it would still be possible as Tsunade herself said it

"Is that all you can repeat is "theoretically"? We're not talking about theoreticals, notional, or untested. If there's no on-screen panels depicting her carrying out these extreme feats you keep giving her then it's inadmissible. You're not going to see hearts, or liver, or pancreas, or stomach materialisating itself from cells without already existent parts. Can injuries such as a perforated lung be restored? Yes. But creating large organ pieces and limbs from little material? It's questionable at best."

Speculation. Granted it is speculation saying she would be able to forge new legs too however unlike your speculation mine is theoetically possible

You parroting "theoretically" over and over is not going to stir it into existence. Katsuyu regenerating people is unproven, unsubstantiated, virtually baseless wishful thinking with nothing corroborating it besides Katsuyu knowing how to sync herself with the seal for remote healing.
 

These things proved to be false due to Kishi's retcons, it's not may fault, now Tsunade being able to regrow limbs was never confirmed or taken as false so it isn't "contradictory",

Regrowing limbs has been contradicted various times by Tsuande opting for a more complicated forging of prosthetic arms via Hashirama cells and the sister ability not moulding a replacement limb once Madara's was severed. I don't know how much more contradictory it needs to be than that for you to understand that it's inapplicable in a fight against Madara. She's not going to sprout limbs or organs when there's nothing outright proving it with feats in the manga.
 

even if theoreically with enough chakra she would be able to do it

"Is that all you can repeat is "theoretically"? We're not talking about theoreticals, notional, or untested. If there's no on-screen panels depicting her carrying out these extreme feats you keep giving her then it's inadmissible. You're not going to see hearts, or liver, or pancreas, or stomach materialisating itself from cells without already existent parts. Can injuries such as a perforated lung be restored? Yes. But creating large organ pieces and limbs from little material? It's questionable at best.

You parroting "theoretically" over and over is not going to stir it into existence. Katsuyu regenerating people is unproven, unsubstantiated, virtually baseless wishful thinking with nothing corroborating it besides Katsuyu knowing how to sync herself with the seal for remote healing."

That makes probably over five times this segment of the conversation has needed to be commented on.

Without heart and / or brain said person would be dead in a matter of seconds, not much time to regenerate anything would it?

Since when does an auto-healing technique that operates without the need of conscious formulation by the user stop at the loss of a brain or heart? If it doesn't require mental thought, then any cuts or damage should be restored. Well, at least the cells that are resistant to oxygen deprivation should be able to replicate for a brief time, I think. That could very well be wrong and I would not want to test it.
 

It was shown that by recreating tissue, it would be possible for recreating organs

"Does rapid recreation of cells entail building from minimal material? Having read up more on the issue, the liver can restore itself with only a quarter of its tissue. But each organ is different. Things like cardiac cells have only a very limited form of regeneration from what I've read. Restoring organs like the heart from little material with an unsupportable basis has never been proven. A certain quantity of preserved organ tissue would be required for the healing process to pan out."

[Atheck]

It was also wrong of you take the byakugou as a whole as "baseless hype"

It's not wrong to demand evidence of these extreme feats as you continue repeating "theoretically" like it somehow gives validation to its use in the Hebi Sasuke vs Tsunade debate.
 

Sakura and Tsunade style of taijutsu is a type, its differetn from Sasuke but powerful nonethless relying on pure strenght rather than flourish

Yes, I know, it's called the brawler/slugger boxing style.

"A brawler is a fighter who generally lacks finesse and footwork in the ring, but makes up for it through sheer punching power. Many brawlers tend to lack mobility, preferring a less mobile, more stable platform and have difficulty pursuing fighters who are fast on their feet. They may also have a tendency to ignore combination punching in favor of continuous beat-downs with one hand and by throwing slower, more powerful single punches (such as hooks and uppercuts). Their slowness and predictable punching pattern (single punches with obvious leads) often leaves them open to counter punches, so successful brawlers must be able to absorb substantial amounts of punishment."

Sasuke is perfectly capable of dodging their strikes while affecting their legwork and influencing the positioning of their opponents through his martial arts training. And both women don't have Raikage's durability - Tsunade was thrown back by Kabuto's punch - so they're going to feel it Sasuke attacks them.
 

Seeing you trying to compare genin!Sasuke wth holding back!Kakashi still makes me laugh

Yeah, Sasuke surprised Kakashi because his taijutsu was above that of a bratty academy student, what a big feat

Really, Kakashi was holding back there, mate.

It's more impressive form and technique than anything your puffed-up distorted interpretations of Sakura/Tsunade have displayed. Holding back or not, Kakashi wasn't expecting any Genin to be capable of occupying his time so much. The sheer fact that Sasuke could glance a bell with such a discrepancy between himself and Kakashi speaks volumes about how talented he was. I already referenced how he was outperforming against the Chunin Demon Brothers shortly afterwards.
 

If you want to see Sasuke in a real battle of taijutsu just look at his fight with rock lee ,

Really? A taijutsu specialist who has dedicated the majority of his life to perfecting the form and power of Guy's martial arts style while stringently emphasising his speed outperforming a jack of all trades whose physical stats are tiers below his own? You don't say. Anyone else at the exams who wasn't Neji would have been overpowered in taijutsu by Lee as well.

Your snide emoticons doesn't change the information.

[Atheck]

in fact Sasuke abandoned his styler in favour of Rock's Lee during the chuunin exam

He adopted Lee's incredible speed along with a variation of the Initial Lotus that he never used again after Yoroi. And what separates him from people like Sakura - who is literally a carbon copy of Tsunade in every shape and form for every arc in Part 2 - is that he still manages to hold onto distinct qualities like the Sharingan, Katons, and Chidori. Besides, Lee doesn't have ownership of high speed fighting styles. I'll grant that Sasuke learned it through Kakashi's copying of Lee's method, however, but any improvements made afterwards until MS were through his own efforts.
 

He didn't really want to kill her and without the byakugou she would've died due to her pierced chest

Orochimaru became intent on killing Tsunade after she made her allegiances clear. Every attack after the first impalement was made with the expressed wish of harming her.
 

This and more.

What I'd consider complicated would be recreating limbs, that would take a HUGE amount of chakra

It's not too complicated for Mystical Palm either. It's functionally similar to Byakugou - accelerated cellular and tissue division. See my above reference to Tsunade restoring the lost bone and muscle in Naruto's hand. Sakura was attempting to stop the bleeding of the impalement caused by Sasori's blade. He even made a mental note of how she was doing her best not only to stem the flow of blood, but heal the wound as well - and this was a significant injury that had pierced a fatal area, according to Sasori.

"Recreating" limbs implies significant bone deprivation. How much are we talking about? A badly broken limb? Or something extreme like everything below the elbow hanging on a bloodied stem with veins spurting blood as the stem begins to grow itself a whole portion of the limb.
 

He probably wins in speed but Tsunade is fast on her own too, speed is not the only factor in fights,

"I acknowledge that Tsunade's speed is decent for someone who doesn't specialise in speed, but how is she fast compared to high tier shinobi? Both Orchimaru and Kabuto were not hit once by any of her strikes until catching the latter off-guard as he was adjusting his glasses. She's almost attacked by Kabuto who quickly adjusted to his synapses being jumbled, and Jiraiya's group appears to stop him. She then charges headfirst once again but proceeds to fold under her phobia of blood before getting thrown back by Kabuto striking her. It takes some time for her to overcome her phobia as we see that her pain threshold is very high when exposed to the proper emotional stimuli. She forces Orochimaru back, who wasn't expecting her to overcome the phobia. Then summoning happens, Katusuy is almost eaten alive by Manda, Tsunade disappears then reappears out of nowhere to catch an unsuspecting Manda with Gamabunta's tanto, and finally she uses Orochimaru's conveniently wrapped tongue to propel him up to her position for a direct strike to the face that he was smiling off shortly afterward.

Fast forward hundreds of chapters later, Madara did nothing but haughtily stand in place awaiting her to reach him and strike his Susanoo when he could have easily dodged her. This is the same man who was blitzing an entire army of shinobi and required Gaara's sand to restrain him before defending himself seriously. So we know Madara has terrifying skill, acuity, and speed. Tsunade then proceeds to kick Susanoo in conjunction with the other Kages' attacks, punches a Mokuton clone, gets impaled, feints being unconscious to counterattack instead of utilising those super high-speed instantaneous reflexes that you have a knack for pulling out of thin air, is challenged by five Mokuton clones, can later be seen punching one Susanoo with two blades in her abdomen (it should be noted that none of the other fighters had suffered such grievous damage to their body), coughs up blood and collapses from overexertion (as the Raikage was still fighting, by the way, who notes how sloppy her fighting was), amplifies Onoki's Jinton, and then knocks away some Katon projectiles before getting bifurcated off-screen.

This summarises her two fights against competent shinobi. Now tell me, what impressive feats out of all those combat scenarios should lead me to believe in this silly notion of her being "dynamic" and "fast"? Nothing, really. Because tanking and punching while landing surprise attacks on enemies who thought she was down is the extent of her combat expertise. I don't see any complex leg or arm movements, no impressive displays of avoidance, no diverse movesets. What is the extent of martial arts training? Does she know Karate or Aikido? What amazing taijutsu feats has Tsunade accomplished that would lead someone to believe that she's not just a brawler who knows how to kick on occasion? She confessed that Kabuto whom she may be superior to a hypothetical Tsunade in her prime. Being on-par with Kabuto during Part 1 is a good milestone, but he's nothing special come Part 2. All of the Akatsuki, with the possible exceptions of Zetsu and Hidan, are stronger than Base Kabuto, as is Hebi Sasuke."

It's not the only factor, but speed is highly important when surviving against attacks and successfully landing them. Most notable S-rank shinobi have a speed listing of at least 4.

Tsunade is also a master at dodging and if Sakura's behavior during the Sasori fight is any hint...

I wouldn't rely too much on the events of Sakura vs Sasori for proof of reflexive skills when she spent the first five chapters analysing Sasori's finger movements before acting on her own. Her most impressive feat past the Iron Sand was hand-standing atop the cluster of puppet swords. Dodging fodder puppet swords after fighting them for a considerable amount of time, though? Eventually you're going to have to adapt in order to survive. Sasuke did so as he learned how to follow Haku's movements in the Ice Mirrors and dodge his senbon. They don't give much proof to the belief of her being fast enough to follow Sasuke, who has a 4.5 in speed.
 

Hinata has the byakugan

Byakugan just allows you to see the tenketsu and chakra network of your opponent. It doesn't magnify your speed like senjutsu or the bijuu do.
 

Kishi frenquently forgets or doesn't care for Sakura, so much that her best point was during the first shippuden arc

It's true because it was shown and evidenced. Tsunade created the medic ninn rule, dodge is part of the rules she made Sakura learn such abillity, etc.

The evidence has been factored in already. None of it convinces me that Tsunade is capable of following Sasuke's movements when the relative movement feats of Sasuke are judged against Tsunade's. See my summary of Tsunade's combat feats above for the given panels of her fighting.
 

The one judging the fight in "what ifs" is you
By what was given to us, Hebi!Sasuke would lose his power level is still not at the point where he can take on a Kage

How is it what-ifs? I gave countless manga panels and statements attesting to Sasuke's superior quickness, acuity, and martial arts technique. It seems like you're the one who keeps spouting off "theoreticals" because the proof you have from the manga isn't sufficient to otherwise prove your claims.
 

Again

"Really ? It's a given if she is reconstructing organs then recreation of tissue is involved, if she is recreating tissue then celular regeneration/duplication is involved, it's really simple,chakra is just the raw material such process uses to happen

"Does rapid recreation of cells entail building from minimal material? Having read up more on the issue, the liver can restore itself with only a quarter of its tissue. But each organ is different. Things like cardiac cells have only a very limited form of regeneration from what I've read. Restoring organs like the heart from little material with an unsupportable basis has never been proven. A certain quantity of preserved organ tissue would be required for the healing process to pan out."

It's even more obvious when one of the side effects of the creation rebirth is the reduction of life span, why? Because constant and immediate healing with cells regeneration wear up the body more

Three times you've repeated yourself here and the answer remains the same.

"You extracted that drawback from Shizune, yes? Well here's the exact wording, "The number of times each human cell can multiply is limited. If she quickens the process, it only means she's shortening her own life."

Her specification of the "regenerative" process seems odd, don't you think? Multiply human cells? It gives the implication that a base of cells is required for the organ to be healed. After all, you can't multiply something by zero and receive anything but zero, can you? This leads me to conclude that you're prized organ and limb regeneration without already existent material still in-tact is impossible. Well, I don't believe Byakugou can turn a small fragment of a heart into a full one, but such limitations aren't the focal point of this portion of the conversation."
 

Theoretically, as long as she has a sample of the tissue of the organ and chakra she would be able to do it, as such is the nature of cell regeneration

Rehash number 2 for this segment of your post...

"And theoretically, I could dispute that Kurenai is top tier in genjutsu and Hiruzen is more powerful than any other Kage in existence. Doesn't make the claims any more viable. If we adhered to your logic and took it to the extreme, Tsunade would be popping back into existence from a single cell à la the DBZ villain.

Well, my point about the lack of any visible on-screen feats and hesitancy to spawn limbs for Naruto via Byakugou transference when it would be a much easier process still stands."
 

Again...
"A huge acceleration

Acceleration doesn't equate to replicating cells that are biologically unreplicable like brain cells
 

Well, we already saw recreating tissue for internal organs

Number two for this segment.

We didn't actually see the degree of damage inflicted by those attacks. The Susanoo swords were wedged in place that would restrict any spillage. An exact quantity of tissue multiplication is unknown. But creating almost completely new organs from segments seems unlikely. She would have needed to mend the organs back together, otherwise Tsunade's body would clog with fragmented innards hanging uselessly. This isn't taking into account the various subsections of the organs.
 

The nature of cell regeneration says that it would be possible to bring limbs back with enough chakra as long as there is a sample of tissue to be used left but as we were never exactly shown that's why I say theoretically,

"Is that all you can repeat is "theoretically"? We're not talking about theoreticals, notional, or untested. If there's no on-screen panels depicting her carrying out these extreme feats you keep giving her then it's inadmissible. You're not going to see hearts, or liver, or pancreas, or stomach materialisating itself from cells without already existent parts. Can injuries such as a perforated lung be restored? Yes. But creating large organ pieces and limbs from little material? It's questionable at best."

Deidara is a special case, he is not normal the same with Orochimaru for example

How is Deidara a "special case"? His arm was sown back onto his stump. Can you give any specific quotes confirming some unique restorative or mending ability that only Deidara has?

This is the first original statement you've given for several responces now. I think I'll just remove any further reiterations from the discussion now since they're been repeated several times now.