31746 replies to this topic

[LuckyChi7]

Many of us here have come to accept Shinachiku and Hanabi as the son and daughter of NaruSaku. I've devided to take a more original approach in creating a child of how I envision for NaruSaku and I hope you guys will come to accept her too: 

 

 

[trang95]

 

I did for a short amount of time but then I deleted it,  although I am thinking of creating one again. 

Oh, ok ^_^ Tumblr can be annoying sometimes- it was horrible around the time Naruto ended... But now, I'm just being graced with TouKen pics

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Ria and I are trying figure out what name sounds perfect for  Naruto and Sakura's daughter?

 

Sachi Uzumaki or Haru Uzumaki? 

 

I did Haruka myself, not only because it sounds close to Sakura, but what it means as well, Chi :) Do you guys plan for them to have any other kids?

[LuckyChi7]

 

I did Haruka myself, not only because it sounds close to Sakura, but what it means as well, Chi :) Do you guys plan for them to have any other kids?

 

We might there's a chance I and Ria might give Sachiko a little brother, I've always thought it would be cool if Naruto and Sakura's  first child was a girl, and designing Sachiko definitely took alot more time then it did for Naruto and Sakura since she's an original character which is how you got the design I gave her in the drawing I just posted. Plus when it came to the name Ria and I kinda did the work since Sachi is the name I kinda decided, but she decided to throw in ko at the end of Sachi but also because I love the meaning behind the name it just fits.   

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

We might there's a chance I and Ria might give Sachiko a little brother, I've always thought it would be cool if Naruto and Sakura's  first child was a girl, and designing Sachiko definitely took alot more time then it did for Naruto and Sakura since she's an original character which is how you got the design I gave her in the drawing I just posted. Plus when it came to the name Ria and I kinda did the work since Sachi is the name I kinda decided, but she decided to throw in ko at the end of Sachi but also because I love the meaning behind the name it just fits.   

 

Sachiko is a cool name. ^_^ When I came up with Jiraiya Uzumaki, my first NS kid for my fanon, the idea was to honor one of Naruto's most important people, so I know Minato also came to mind, but I figured Jiraiya would be a fitting name. I also blame it a bit on Harry Potter with Harry and Ginny having a son named Albus Severus, with their naming Albus after Professors Dumbledore and Snape. Haruka was meant to sound close to how Sakura is as well as to have the feel of spring, like Sakura's surname of Haruno has Haru which means spring in English :3

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

@Nar123

In terms of all that discussion...

With Sasuke and Itachi, even "Madara"/Obito told Sasuke in the aftermath that if Itachi was actually serious about killing him, then he could have done so instantly whenever he chose. That's how big the difference still was between them; that even with all the extra power Sasuke had and Itachi being on the verge of death from his illness and being 99% blind, Itachi was still able to easily keep pace with him, pushing him bit by bit until he was desperate enough for Orochimaru to emerge so Itachi could seal him and get rid of the Curse Seal.

And we also can't forget that Hebi!Sasuke still had to fall back on the Curse Seal LV2 against Deidara alone and even then, Sasuke still required that convenience and asspull just to barely escape and survive (and he still lost his wings), and Deidara is one of the weaker Akatsuki members when compared to the likes of Kakuzu, Kisame, Itachi, Nagato and such. The only one who is probably weaker is Hidan, but he has his immortality via Jashinism to make up for it all.

[RyohkiFan]

Many of us here have come to accept Shinachiku and Hanabi as the son and daughter of NaruSaku. I've devided to take a more original approach in creating a child of how I envision for NaruSaku and I hope you guys will come to accept her too: 
 
 

CHANGE THE NAME!!! I think of corpse party when I see it xD Don't hurt me Nice drawing though

[Gaara's hair]

CHANGE THE NAME!!! I think of corpse party when I see it xD Don't hurt me Nice drawing though

SACHIKO

[Gaara's hair]

I'd post a image of Sachiko, but I'm on the vita...

[LuckyChi7]

CHANGE THE NAME!!! I think of corpse party when I see it xD Don't hurt me Nice drawing though

 

Lol I figured somebody was gonna make a reference to that, but that's why Ria and I went with Sachiko instead for good reason plus her names means Happiness or intellect/wisdom. Plus the name's already kinda set in stone on our end...

 

I will say drawing her took a hell of a longtime for me to get it perfect because just drawing an original character for Naruto and Sakura was kinda difficult.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I'm not sure how many of you have noticed, but if look at Sachiko's left sleeve you can see the Uzumaki Clan symbol within the Haruno Clam symbol. That was my way of showing that she's an NS daughter too sense she's a member of both the Uzumaki Clan and The Haruno Clan. 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 07 May 2015 - 04:49 AM.

[RyohkiFan]

SACHIKO

IT HAUNTS ME

[Gaara's hair]

IT HAUNTS ME

SACHIKO SACHIKO SACHIKO Oh, no! What a nice girl She just wants to make mama happy

[Bail o' Lies]

I didn't even notice Hinata's boob when Sakura was healing her. Seriously Hinata just got stabbed in the chest by Pain and is on the verge of life and death and all fans can think about is how big her breasts are beneath her sweater?? It really is disgusting.

Honestly when i first read that part i didn't care about her breast size but it all her fans talk about if you mention that scene.

[Aizen-Sama]

SACHIKO SACHIKO SACHIKO Oh, no! What a nice girl She just wants to make mama happy

 

Sachiko's a lame name.

 

Honestly when i first read that part i didn't care about her breast size but it all her fans talk about if you mention that scene.

 

Yeah they're perverts.  SP are a bunch of pedophiles.

[RyohkiFan]

SACHIKO SACHIKO SACHIKO Oh, no! What a nice girl She just wants to make mama happy

[Atheck]

No, it's not. In fact going by canon the only known users of the byakugou are Tsunade and Sakura,

Mito having it is only pure specualtion even if she has the sign

My comment was in-reference to the seal, not the Byakugou technique which has only two confirmed users. However, the seal is interconnected with Sozo Saisei/Byakugou and it has no other benefits aside from chakra conservation. So while there may not be actual clarification for Mito knowing the technique, the possibility is not outright dismissed and it says nowhere that those healing abilities began with Tsunade.
 

futhermore going by the second databook the one who created the creation rebirth seal was Tsunade.

Care to provide some visual reference material? What was established in encyclopedic sources from ten years old won't necessarily carry the same accuracy when placed under scrutiny from more recent information. For example, Susanoo was referenced as being the resultant permutation for mastering Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu in the 3rd Databook, yet later information contravenes this supposed "fact" when Sasuke, Obito, and Madara are shown as knowing only one or neither of these abilities.
 

I don't really think so, Tsunade is low to mid kage tier level, granted she has a limited skillset but she is still strong.her enpowered punches coupled with instant regeneration and durability make her a worthy and formidable foe.

It would be much easier to firmly place her in the low Kage tier bracket. When I think of mid Kage tier, my mind turns to characters such as Kisame, Raikage, and Itachi. Two of which are far more powerful and versatile compared to Tsunade.

Her fighting tactics represent just the absolute minimum of what would be considered "viable" in combat and that's with her auto-healing ability counteracting the hazardous effects of attacks that don't outright mutilate her. In general, her strategy consists of hulking her way through attacks and landing a punch on unmoving enemies. Place her against an adversary with a fluid, versatile, and proficient fighting style who doesn't sit in place waiting for the woman to impale herself and she would be quickly overwhelmed.
 

LOL "lack of feats", you know there is a reason why Tsunade is called a sannin don't you? She participated in the second ninja war and was a pretty big asset over there.

Historically, it was the leader of one of the smaller countries, Hanzo, that branded the three shinobi who opposed him with that moniker as recompense for allowing them to live. The connotations of the title holding significance in the circles of legends only came later, and it was mostly Jiraiya and Orochimaru who were regarded with such reverence and apprehension. The lion's share of Tsunade's acclaim comes from her contributions to the medical community and proficiency as a healer, not because she's an incredible fighter.

If you want to be technical, she was never the strongest shinobi in the village of Konoha during any year of her career - not with characters like Guy who could easily overcome her due to his vastly superior martial arts skill coupled with speed and the gates. This idea of sansukumi where each Sannin is as powerful as the next doesn't coincide with the feats displayed. The order of power would be something like this...

SM Jiraiya > Orochimaru > Base Jiraiya > Tsunade
 

Even Sakura herself, in the phase where Kishi cared for her, showed strenght and assets well enough to assist Chiyo on the defeat of S-rank Sasori

Of course, but you're overlooking the circumstances which clearly depict Chiyo as being the one who fought the majority of the battle herself. Sakura's separate contributions without assistance can be summed down to her dodging some geometrical Iron Sand attacks, feinting the Kazekage puppet, barely rescuing Chiyo from propellers after being slashed in the midsection by Sasori, punching a single puppet before being rescued from a surprise attack by Chiyo, and then using Chiyo's sealing device to try and seal him. All of which could not have been possible without prior analysis.

Do I really need to go into depth about Sakura's actual performance against this Akatsuki member again? This has been discussed already.
The conclusion reached was that Sakura would have been dead out of the starting gate because of her lack of experience and inability to react quickly in the heat of the moment. The latter weakness has been longstanding all throughout the manga and was represented several times during the manga.
 

My main problem with this is because their skillsets are alike making Sakura look like only just a copy of Tsunade which is not a good thing for a MC

Sakura could become as versatile as Kakashi and it wouldn't change her performance unless she can overcome the inherent weaknesses to her psyche that make her hesitate in battle.
 

You are talking about Hebi!Sasuke? The one who only won againts Deidara due to convenience and asspull?

Contrived escapes aside, Sasuke had outmatched and outsmarted Deidara leading up to that final suicidal attack of his. He had cornered an S-rank enemy through his careful analysis of the mechanics behind Deidara's techniques while expertly countering every single technique used against him.

Frankly, I find it to ridiculous to compare Sasuke's feats compared against what Tsunade and Sakura displayed, arguing that it's comparable to every melee combination or weapon dexterity used by Sasuke. It's one thing to argue that they could succeed through a battle of attrition, but they are vastly inferior when the combat scenario involves skill and versatility.
 

And just won against Itachi because of his brother illness and specially because that was his brother plan all along? LOL
If you meant Taka!Sasuke I could understand since his MS and the amaterasu are enough to put him in kage level

No, this discussion relates strictly to Base Hebi Sasuke.

Do you actually believe Tsunade or Sakura would have pressured Itachi as much like Sasuke? They would have been either killed during the genjutsu battle portion or, at best, they survive until Amaterasu where they're incinerated down to nothing because Itachi (sick) is still a force to be reckoned with and they don't have the speed or the abilities to counter it.
 

Speculation...again :/ We have no manner to know exactly what was damaged, we only know that the creation rebirth seal took care of the problem,

It's not speculation. Re-read the chapter. Tsunade makes specific reference to "Rokkankin", which is Romaji for "intercostal muscle".
 

furthermore your argument fails because as I said, the creation rebirth is instant regenration. No , I read the chapter again, it was to the chest area ( heart region), then to her shoulder blades, then to her tights. Any other person would have died from these wounds if not received immediate medical attention, Tsunade's creation rebirth took care of it for her.

I already stated before, the muscles are an internal organ. Besides knowing that most organs are made of different types of tissues...and that the byakugou itself regenerates tissue, I think it is pretty clear that it does indeed regenerate

I don't know if you're being intentionally obstinate or if you're twisting around the time-frame of the manga because Sozo Saisei wasn't even introduced until after Kabuto was incapacitated and Orochimaru was attempting to kill Naruto. Please try and grasp this: Sozo Saisei was not used in battle against Kabuto. What she used was standard medical ninjutsu to heal the internal organ damage. There were no facial markings, no activation of the seal, and no creation of missing organs at the time when Tsunade was fighting him.

The shoulder blades, otherwise known as Scapulae, are positioned in the region of the body where various muscles such as Trapezius Muscle are situated.

Now look at this diagram indicating where the Scapulae are situated and tell me if Kabuto damaged that specific area of Tsunade's body.

Shoulder Blade position

Kabuto landed three attacks with the Chakra Scalpel. One each on a leg and arm then at the chest area which she later clarified was Rokkankin. The fact that she regained herself enough to counterattack Kabuto is a testament to her willpower coupled with her breasts lessening the severity of the damage. But large breasts are the only physical cushion unique to Tsunade. Willpower is acquired through environment and stimuli.

[Atheck]

You do know that the Byakugou isn't the Mystical Palm right? The MYstical palm is healing the byakugou is a regeneration

Yes, I'm perfectly aware of the differences between the two abilities. My reference to Mystical Palm stems from the fact that you continually bring up Creation Rebirth as though it held relevancy in the fight against Kabuto, which it did not. The technique came several chapters later after Orochimaru had severely damaged her.
 

Just read
http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/676/7
Now look
http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/588/7
She has two gigantics sword up her torso, I don't know you but it looks like she is still kicking over there, could it be some kind of regeneration ?

I already showed the panel of her fight against Madara in one of my earlier replies, there are two big swords up her torso and she is fine afterwards thanks to her regeneration, check it out

Her spine and internal organs were evidently still intact enough to hold together her body. It correlates to most of the organs such as the intestines, pancreas, stomach, and kidneys still remaining inside her midsection. Given the method of infliction, with the swords remaining inside her body, acting as a bulwark to hold those organs together, perhaps forcibly moved them around, no organs would have needed to be constructed.
 

What fight are you talking about?Tsunade used the byakugou/ aka Creation Rebirth seal in her fight against Kabuto

Please reread the fight. Nowhere is Sozo Saisei or the seal referenced as she's fighting Kabuto. It's only brought up once Orochimaru sets his sights on killing Naruto.
 

Speculation

Check #164 for verification. Tsunade specifies what was impacted by Kabuto's scalpel attack to her chest region. Here - I'll even go against my vow not to look at this manga ever again for you.

 

Rokkankin

 

What was affected by Kabuto's jutsu is merely a speculation, I mentioned windpipes and lungs because they are what's more likely to have been hit given that they are the most known common organs that are supposed to handle breathing

I'm beginning to think you don't understand the muscles that were referenced. Here is some information from http://www.innerbody.com/

"The intercostal muscles help move and make up the wall of the chest and are located between the ribs. These muscle groups include the external intercostal muscles and the internal intercostal muscles. The external intercostal muscles help increase thoracic size from front to back and side to side with contraction of the external intercostal muscles. These muscles help in inhalation-both forced and quiet. They lift the ribs as well as expand the thoracic cavity's transverse dimensions. The internal intercostal muscles help with expiration-the forced process. These muscles depress the ribs, making the thoracic cavity' transverse dimensions decrease."

Tsunade outright specifies which muscles have been damaged and she's exhibiting the symptoms of damaged intercostal muscles.
 

You seem to not understand how the byakugou works. It doesn't create "organs" from chakra, it recreates tissue thanks to ultra fast cell regeneration so as long as there is tissue left to take a sample from and expand, such organ would still be ab le to be recreated or healed. Simple as that.

Chakra is what accelerates the healing process in the first place. And it's interesting how you would cite the exact process as being the recreation of tissue and cellular duplication when her exact quote was, "I can reconstruct any damaged parts and organs of my body."

"Damaged" anatomical bits can be healed and reconstructed. But how can organs be "reconstructed" if they're completed destroyed, charred beyond salvaging, or removed? For that to be possible, she needs to literally recreate the entire organ from nothing, which does not fit the criterion of the jutsu. If the heart's removed from Tsunade's body, she can't heal it due to lack of cellular material.

Even so, I question the effectiveness of the technique if the damage happens to be severe and extensive. She's not like Cell who can literally regenerate his entire body from a single cell
 

No, in the end of her fight against Kabuto, Tsunade didn't used basic healing techinque, she used her seal, teh create rebirth seal, (AKA byakugou) hell, I even posted a panel of it here...

The image was broken. Check your source material. The seal was released in #169 against Orochimaru. Tsunade's fight with Kabuto pans out in #164 while extending into the beginning of #165 before she's too traumatised by blood to continue and Naruto takes up the fight. Kabuto and Tsunade never fought again. Her only medical jutsu used in #164 was Mystical Palm. Stop trying to distort the timeline of events.
 

Mystical Palm technique

Tsunade unleashing her seal against Orochimaru

 

I don't know...do you think I'm a fool or something? Because you keep repeating the same thing even after receiving cisual evidence that you are wrong

No, I think you're so caught up in this distorted notion that D comes after A that you're confusing when certain events took place and what specifically happened during said events. Your "evidence" can't even be seen, and I keep repeating to you that Tsunade never used any specific restorative jutsu against Kabuto, by himself with Orochimaru not involved, except for Mystical Palm to heal the damage inflicted to his internal organs.
 

Nope, I already showed visual evidence of the contrary, both from the manga and from other characters mouths;

Your evidence isn't showing up and it fails to meet the criteria of the discussion. If Sasuke removes Tsunade's limbs or internal organs, or severely damages them to the point where the material isn't even recognisable as human tissue, then even the boaster's logic is inapplicable because there's nothing to make limbs or organs from.
 

I don't know why do you keep denying it. What happened to this "Ban" is basically the same what would happen with Tsunade and Sakura in the situation minus the fact that they would feel the pain of having their torso blown out og thier bodies but considering the Byakugou recreates tissue, so it would be able to cover the hole.

Ban's entire stomach cavity was destroyed. It wasn't a simple laceration through the intestines or a jumbling of organs. He literally recreated those organs when there was nothing left. By Tsunade's own logic, that's an impossibility for her technique since the organ itself needs to still be existent for recovery to begin.

[Atheck]

You are confusing yourself, the byakugou is not a glorified mystical palm techinque, the byakugou permits regeneration, it doesn't only heal, it also recreates because it makes the cell regeneration on the whole body a lot faster than normal.

I'm going to repeat what was spoken above because I feel that's already covered this segment of the conversation.

"Chakra is what accelerates the healing process in the first place. And it's interesting how you would cite the exact process as being the recreation of tissue and cellular duplication when her exact quote was, "I can reconstruct any damaged parts and organs of my body."

"Damaged" anatomical bits can be healed and reconstructed. But how can organs be "reconstructed" if they're completed destroyed, charred beyond salvaging, or removed? For that to be possible, she needs to literally recreate the entire organ from nothing, which does not fit the criterion of the jutsu. If the heart's removed from Tsunade's body, she can't heal it due to lack of cellular material."

Just to clarify, since Hashirama's senjutsu and Byakugou are practically interchangeable in terms of mechanics, the lack of a regrown arm despite having some time for the process to take place corroborates that neither one is some infallible ability that makes them Ban, Cell, or Majin Buu.
 

On-screen: Madara on his human body managed to glue limbs back together
Off-screen: Tsunade was split in two after her fight against Madara and she came out of it fine in the end due to Katusuyu and Orochimaru

They didn't grow them. They attached already existing appendages to their bodies - ligaments, blood vessels, and muscle were sown together. What Madara showed later on after "Night Guy" is what constitutes as regeneration in the practical sense - limbs being cut off and then replaced with new ones.
 

Nevertheless, it's said that the byakugou can regrow limbs as long as the user has chakra, canon evidence points to that as well as the description of the techinique abilities. If you have a problem with it blame Kishimoto for never showing us and giving us evidence that it can happen.

There's also canon information available that says Kurenai's genjutsu skills are on-par with Itachi's and that Hebi Sasuke has "godlike speed" which can't be matched. Both theories were eventually proven wrong in the manga. Oh, and let's not forget about Sasuke who Sakura "used to love" according to DB3, then Kishi contradicts his own encyclopedic material along with other tidbits in various interviews.

Everything and anything spoken or asserted in this manga should be taken with a grain of salt until it's proven with feats.
 

http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/591/8
It was a fire technique used by Madara Uchiha. Let that sink. Now what you said again? "I question if they would even qualify as anything more than second degree burns." Please, Atheck...the techinique would have dealt serious damage to the Kages if not for Tsunade and yet after the impact she was relatively unarmed because of the byakugou, the high speed regeneration made the burns not so dangerous to her health and body, however as you can see her chakra was gone afterwards and if not for Dan's phantom she would be dead

Those were basic animal shaped fire projectiles from a Madara who was in the process of disappearing. Sasuke used a similar ability, which was A-rank, by the way, to generate the rain clouds while catching Itachi's arm on-fire, which did little more than cause minor burns.

Your claim about the katons causing grievous damage to the Kages is little more than unsupportable exaggerations. Flame techniques have largely been ineffective in Naruto. Orochimaru had a concentrated stream of fire burn his face alive and it did little more than melt it partially - no blood drawn, no disfigurement, nothing, and that was the face of some generic Grass ninja. The only potent fire based ability shown is Amaterasu.

Check the listing of burn degrees on Google. Then compare it to what Tsunade suffered through. I don't care how effective her healing ability is, not even the bijuu's constant restoration perk couldn't recreate Naruto's epidermal skin layer as he was leaving the state.

If that fire ability of Madara's was anything potent, it would have charred through her skin and muscle instead of leaving surface burns and minor stinging.
 

I ask the same question, the fact that Madara was able to "glue" limbs back again shows on-screen that the byakugou is capable of such feat, another on-screen events show that it's capable of handling a great deal of internal damage and recreate tissue. However we never got any on- screen panel of a person with the byakugou regrowing limbs from nothing though it's mostly likely theoritically possible when even the own creator of the jutsu says so and due to the nature of "fast cell regeneration and multiplacation"

So yeah, we don't have any panel of byakugou users regrewing limbs like lizards, but we have panels the mostly likely confirm that it's possible. So it's beyond me how did you manage to decide on your own that the jutsu was just baseless hype LOL

Technically speaking, humans in real life "regenerate" cells and tissue, but we're incapable of sprouting new limbs or organs. Byakugou/Sozo Saisei is merely an acceleration of that process. Healing damaged organs and such is part of that process, not reconstituting new ones when they've been removed. "Theoretically" doesn't stand when the only instances where it could have been utilised failed in generating new limbs - instead both Madara and Tsunade opted for taking Zetsu material for prosthetics. It failed to live up to the hype under scrutiny and I have no reason to believe that it's anything more than an exaggeration like Kurenai's genjutsu skills or Hiruzen's "God of shinobi" moniker.
 

We just got a superficial look at the kages so it's not fair to give an extent of the injures they managed to get,

Their bodies appeared to be completely in-tact. Unless the area that was bleeding had a large gaping wound where their kidneys and intestines were spilling out beneath their bodies, it's fairly safe to conclude that their injuries did not cause them disfigurement sans Tsunade.
 

Tsunade's legs were close by and not smashed/damaged or anything. It's less chakra used to try to attach her legs to her body again than to regrow a whole pair of another legs, a lot more chakra would be used to make the cell regeneration faster. Though it would be theoretically possible for Tsunade to do it as long as Katsuyu could use samples specifc samples of tissue to recreate the tissues her leg

You're still extracting outside material for the appendages. If Tsunade could sprout limbs with nothing but an active Byakugou then this stipulation of tissue material shouldn't be necessary.

Katsuyu isn't a medical scientist in a proctored environment. She can't forge entire legs from a few cells, not even the self-professed user of the ability has boasted that level of extensive regeneration with little material (see the above quotes that cite Tsunade from #169).
 

Now please, it is stated that the byakugou can generate limbs as long as there is enough chakra ( we were never shown the actually "regrowing" of limbs on panel but the attachment of other limbs otherwise...), it is stated that it could recreat and heal internal damages on organs and such ( and it's showed on panel
Stop trying to argue that it's baseless hype because it's not.

Here's the thing - you're relying on quotes that have no visual proof in the manga to substantiate it. I could stomp my feet in the ground and argue that because Kurenai was affirmed to be on-par Itachi in terms of genjutsu, she therefore is. But I would be wrong, especially in hindsight with Tsukuyomi and Izanami being introduced, both are inescapable without meeting certain conditions. And in a manga where established material can be totally invalidated, retconned, or written off as misinterpreted, contradictory facts can only discredit it from being true.

It doesn't matter how you exaggerate Tsunade and Hashirama's healing abilities because their decision to use outside sources for limb restoration correlates to limitations on how much can be regenerated. I don't believe arms, legs, bladder, hearts, or brains can be spawned from Byakugou because there's no examples of this extreme regeneration taking place. Unless it was shown, I mostly take it as Tsunade putting herself up on a pedestal during the heat of the moment.
 

That's because Kakashi understimated him, or are you seriously comparing Genin!Sasuke with kakashi? You sound awfully lot like some Sasuke fanboys smh, maybe this is your case after all

Regardless of whether he underestimated him or not, for Sasuke to pressure Kakashi in such a manner speaks volumes about his competence in battle. The martial arts skill he displayed is more advanced than anything Tsunade or Sakura have shown which is important in a battle of taijutsu.

Sasuke vs Kakashi in taijutsu

 

Now about the swords, well there is little distinction between them, Orochimaru's Kusanagi wounds were healed pretty easily by the creation rebirth once it was activated .

Fortunately for Tsunade, Orochimaru's tactics seemed to involve idiotically cutting lacerations into her until she bleeds out instead of removing her limbs or decapitating her followed up by plunging the sword through her brain.

Healing some deep cuts is nothing too complicated for jutsu of Sozo Saisei's calibre.

[Atheck]

Hebi!Sasuke is fast but Tsunade is too, as an experienced medic nin she knows very well the art of dodging

Tsunade's speed is above average, at best. Hebi Sasuke was blitzing characters of statistically equal levels and higher casually with no Sharingan or Curse Mark.

Base Hebi Sasuke speed

 

Please, Tsunade is the one that teached Sakura how to dodge,

And look how much benefit that yielded. Sakura has admitted that she's incapable of making split-second decisions. Having fast reflexes is a necessity for someone with good evasive skills. She couldn't react to being thrusted into the lava dimension or having a barrage of Mokuton spikes falling down upon her - even Hinata was capable of reacting to them by some degree.
 

assuming she isn't good at it is just sompletely and utterly ridiculous
Tsunade isn't the MC, we won't get a full exploration of her training and powers

Argument from ignorance - where an allegation is true because it can't be disproved.

We're not judging this fight based on "what-ifs" and "lack of 'exploration'" of her fighting abilities. Her feats are what we use to determine who is the superior fighter.
 

Look who is talkin :/
Well I have evidence that can back up my statements do you? You only have your refined prose, our speculations and baseless assumptions.

You keep repeating that the Yin Seal was used in battle against Kabuto when it was only established in-manga several chapters afterwards. Just examine the previous pages depicting Tsunade during the Kabuto and Orochimaru fights respectively. I'm sorry, but you have you're head in the sand? Ignoring the fact that Tsunade specifies which organs were damaged, that Byakugou has little more than hype to justify itself is ridiculous.
 

Get this thorugh your head m8
We got enough of a focus on Byakugou to actually determine a few thing
-- Tsunade herself ( the creator) says what said techinique can do

--We see the techinque healing internal injuries and recreating tissue

Again, this is addressable with the above quote:

Chakra is what accelerates the healing process in the first place. And it's interesting how you would cite the exact process as being the recreation of tissue and cellular duplication when her exact quote was, "I can reconstruct any damaged parts and organs of my body."

"Damaged" anatomical bits can be healed and reconstructed. But how can organs be "reconstructed" if they're completed destroyed, charred beyond salvaging, or removed? For that to be possible, she needs to literally recreate the entire organ from nothing, which does not fit the criterion of the jutsu. If the heart's removed from Tsunade's body, she can't heal it due to lack of cellular material.
 

--Recreating tissue means the techinique is based on fast cell regenaration, with enough chakra, theoretically it is possible to regrow limbs as long as the body has samples of the lost tissues (though we were never shown

Technically speaking, humans in real life "regenerate" cells and tissue, but we're incapable of sprouting new limbs or organs. Byakugou/Sozo Saisei is merely an acceleration of that process. Healing damaged organs and such is part of that process, not reconstituting new ones when they've been removed. "Theoretically" doesn't stand when the only instances where it could have been utilised failed in generating new limbs - instead both Madara and Tsunade opted for taking Zetsu material for prosthetics. It failed to live up to the hype under scrutiny and I have no reason to believe that it's anything more than an exaggeration like Kurenai's genjutsu skills or Hiruzen's "God of shinobi" moniker.

--Thanks to the technique it's possible to attach or reattach body parts, being a fairly tame method of recuperating limbs without having to go through the probable chakra echaustion regrowing a limb would take

Reattaching limbs so that they're functioning properly and receiving circulation is nothing difficult. Deidara's was perfectly fine and all he appeared to do was sow it back onto his stump.
 

The regeneration I'm talking about is cell regeneration, you know what tha is don't you? Based on this it's theoretically possible that someone with the byakugou would be able to regrow limbs but it was never shown.

For yet another time...

Technically speaking, humans in real life "regenerate" cells and tissue, but we're incapable of sprouting new limbs or organs. Byakugou/Sozo Saisei is merely an acceleration of that process. Healing damaged organs and such is part of that process, not reconstituting new ones when they've been removed. "Theoretically" doesn't stand when the only instances where it could have been utilised failed in generating new limbs - instead both Madara and Tsunade opted for taking Zetsu material for prosthetics. It failed to live up to the hype under scrutiny and I have no reason to believe that it's anything more than an exaggeration like Kurenai's genjutsu skills or Hiruzen's "God of shinobi" moniker.

Also, I would recommend reading this article about the particulars of human "regeneration" and how it differs from things such as reptilian regeneration. http://news.discover...arts-130823.htm
 

That scene with the Madara arm regeneration obviously happened so fast for example because he had the large chakra reserves of the juubi, however it's still a doubt in my mind if his regeneration was due to his status as juubi jinchuuriki or his byakugou like technique. Since we never saw a jinchuuriki regrowing limbs like that I'd say it came from his byakugou like technique but since I'm not 100% sure, I chose not to bring this scene up

I'm inclined to believe that it was derived from the Juubi. Kaguya's arm was torn off by Naruto and she managed to regrow it after returning to her humanoid state. Hashirama's regeneration did nothing of the sort, and Madara felt it necessary to take Zetsu's instead of regrowing his own.
 

Enough fire on ground level also contribues for an atmosphere change didn't you know? And as I said Sasuke taking time to send one of his strong enough Katons to the heavens would leave him open if he was on a close fight, wirch would probably be the case, I already said too that he generally leaves the Kirin for his last resort didn't I? When he is completely and utterly out of chakra

Really? So mass forest fires can emit enough heat into the atmosphere that rain clouds are generated above? Thank you for the scientific tidbit.

And there's nothing to assume that Sasuke will continue using the same tactics once he realises they've been proven ineffective. He's not burdened by plot induced stupidity. Tsunade and Sakura both aren't fast enough to catch Sasuke off-guard. He was matching sick Itachi's handseal speed during their fight, a feat that should speak for itself considering how quick he normally is.

[Atheck]

Are you magically assuming Tsunade would just stand there like a doll and let Sasuke chop her arms off? And no, if her limbs regenerated it wouldn't be so fast like that and t would drain her chakra reserves quite a lot. You are arguing about a one-sided fight LOL, Tsunade knows dodging, she wouldn just let Hebi!Sasuke's kusanagi hit her every time, even to throw point managing to chop of one of her limb; futhermore with the creation rebirth techinque she could receive a hit on purpose with the intention of leaving Hebi!Sasuke open for a counterattack.

Her limbs aren't going to reform, and she really doesn't have much choice given their relative speed and reaction feats. Or have you not been paying attention to what Sasuke accomplished in his Hebi state? I assume you just want to give Tsunade a fighting chance, no matter how baseless it may be.


 

Hebi!Sasuke only shred of chance IMO woulde be to fight at a distance, bring out a summon and use it because he would lose in close combat.

Sasuke has the advantage in close quarters according to his taijutsu feats. Granted, it's somewhat ill-advised since he's running the risk of being hit.
 
 

Sasuke specifically says he uses Kirin when he is low on chakra, it's quite a waste otherwise, counting with the fact tha the only used the Kirin once...yeah.

And it's also quite a waste to be moronically rehashing tried and failed abilities like they're being psychologically impeded by some unforeseen force like PIS.
 
 

Please, really? I think you are wanking Hebi!Sasuke too much...Hebi!Sasuke isn't even Kage level yet m8 and we saw how Taka!Sasuke struggled witht he other kages during the Kage Summit

The feats speak for themselves. His speed, his versatility, his martial arts training, his reactive senses, his lethality...

You conveniently overlooked MS Sasuke not having unlocked all of his abilities yet. He was being challenged by the Kages and their guards in a gauntlet style royale with no rest in-between and his strongest techniques being conveniently unavailable at certain points like against the Tsuchikage.
 
 

And as I said before Hebi!Sasuke on a close combat with Tsunade would lose fairly easily, his only chance would be to remain at distance and on the defensiveusing his snake summons.

I'm sorry, do you have any credible evidence to prove that Tsunade can hold her own against someone who doesn't stand in place for her to attack?

Additional taijutsu feats

Those are just from Part 1 and I'm seeing better dexterity, greater attention given to the opponent's movements, and fluid legwork that allows Sasuke to follow into concurrent strikes than anything ever shown by Sakura or Tsunade who just go into "hulk mode" and punch anything in sight.
 
 

This is a big series of what if's. Hebi!Sasuke wouldn't be on the same level of velocity than a kage or a sannin, it's too much of a stretch to think it would be easy like he did with Yamato (who by the way only took the hit because he went to save Sakura)

Now we're delving into the realm of fantasy and purposeful misinformation. Offer up some evidence that the Kages, besides Raikage, Minato, Tobirama, or Hashirama, have worthwhile evasion feats or stop making fabrications to justify your stance. Not all of the Kages are renowned for their speed. Hiruzen is statistically equal with Part 2 Sakura.

Yamato could hardly follow Sasuke. His stats, if you want to include them, are inferior to Sasuke's, notably the speed feat, so he would be at disadvantage against even Base Sasuke.
 
 

But lets say this situation happened someway somehow like Sasuke in a desperate attempt to defeat Tsunade chose to randomly attack a genin bystander and then Tsunade went and took the hit purposely to save the kid, not only the creation rebirth would regenerate the dealt wounds and probably even the numbness but Sasuke would also be putting himself in great risk by staying in a hitting distance from Tsunade, only a split second would be necessary for him to lose the fight

As I said the best strategy for him would be to fight at distance

This part of the conversation is going around in circles. The so called "regeneration" has no credible on-screen feats to prove it for reasons specified several times above. Tsunade's quote connotes to her needing the organ to be in good enough quality that it can be restored instead of spawning a new one.
 
 

No, I don't agree with you. Taka!Sasuke who is clearly stronger was having problems during the Kage Summit, I'd say Hebi Sasuke was elite jounin level at most

"You conveniently overlooked MS Sasuke not having unlocked all of his abilities yet. He was being challenged by the Kages and their guards in a gauntlet style royale with no rest in-between and his strongest techniques being conveniently unavailable at certain points like against the Tsuchikage."

Base Hebi Sauske still possesses his sword, Raiton ninjutsu, Katons, his incredible speed, his taijutsu power, summoning, and Kirin. He would give trouble to Kakashi and possibly Base Guy.


 

I already explained Hebi!Sasuke Akatsuki fights, he won against Deidara due to conveninence and asspull and Itachi was ill and fought only with the intention of taking the curse seal away from Sasuke

You do understand that there's 6 chapters worth of fighting prior to the contrived "snake escape", yes? I would advise you to reread it because you seem to have a nasty habit of skipping straight ahead to the bits that reinforce your claim without factoring all of his movements and feats in earlier segments.

Sasuke feats against Deidara

Itachi was intent on pushing Sasuke into a corner while Sasuke was giving everything he had. He still needed to exert effort in the battle since he had been outmanoeuvred several times and was being pressured by his little brother.
 
 

he curse seal gives him some extra chakra, speed and the ability to fly. I don't think though he would still be a match to the likes of a Kage

It's natural energy compressed into a seal. All of the permutations of sage energy are available to Sasuke like strengthened jutsu, greater physical power, more resistant durability, heightened speed, ect.

Are you referring to Kages in rank or Kage tier? The former, he can bring down Tsunade, Mei, and Hiruzen. The latter? This includes a whole plethora of characters including some of the Jonin and most of the Akatsuki.
 
 

Yeah but it occurs at the speed the creation rebirth permits it to happen? That's specially what changes, the fast cell regeneration opens the door to a lot of possibilities including sprouting internal organs ( as it was showed) and limbs (statement at the manga but never on panel revelation)

Understand this, the byakugou regnerates tissue, organs are made of tissue, as long as there is a sample of that type of tissue regeneration could happen based if the user has enough chakra

And I gave you proof, you are just to blind to see it
Here read what regeneration means
--http://en.wikipedia....ation_(biology)
now read Byakugou's page on Narutopedia
--http://naruto.wikia....reation_Rebirth


Did you see it? It's pretty simple, the problem here is ou not understanding what regeneration means and entails, the problem here is you thinking the byakugo would grant an instant recover of said limb...no, it would use a lot of chakra but it would happen theoretically.
The tidbit about healing internal organs, tissues and etc is confirmed evidence already

I've made my arguments clear multiple times for you.

"Chakra is what accelerates the healing process in the first place. And it's interesting how you would cite the exact process as being the recreation of tissue and cellular duplication when her exact quote was, 'I can reconstruct any damaged parts and organs of my body.'

"Damaged" anatomical bits can be healed and reconstructed. But how can organs be "reconstructed" if they're completed destroyed, charred beyond salvaging, or removed? For that to be possible, she needs to literally recreate the entire organ from nothing, which does not fit the criterion of the jutsu. If the heart's removed from Tsunade's body, she can't heal it due to lack of cellular material.

Technically speaking, humans in real life "regenerate" cells and tissue, but we're incapable of sprouting new limbs or organs. Byakugou/Sozo Saisei is merely an acceleration of that process. Healing damaged organs and such is part of that process, not reconstituting new ones when they've been removed. "Theoretically" doesn't stand when the only instances where it could have been utilised failed in generating new limbs - instead both Madara and Tsunade opted for taking Zetsu material for prosthetics. It failed to live up to the hype under scrutiny and I have no reason to believe that it's anything more than an exaggeration like Kurenai's genjutsu skills or Hiruzen's "God of shinobi" moniker.

Also, I would recommend reading this article about the particulars of human "regeneration" and how it differs from things such as reptilian regeneration. http://news.discover...arts-130823.htm"
 
 

The sannin particiapted in the second ninja war all of them, I'd say they haeve quite ebough feats

It's a shame they're inapplicable in a hypothetical match-up determined by on-screen feats.
 
 

Tsunade used Hashirama's cells to create protestic arms simply because it's the obvious solution, if you didn't know the creation rebirth seal has a big counter, it diminishes the user life style more and more, now tell me why would Tsunade use her creation rebirth seal to make a limb regrow wasting chakra and life span in the proccess while she could simply make one with those handy Hashiram's cells that are the answer for everything in the shinobi world ?

It makes no sense, would you waste part of your life when you could find an easier solution?

Naruto is an Uzumaki, a clan renowned for its ridiculous vitality, why would exhausting a marginal portion of that massive pool be a concern for him? Tsunade has to perform research on constructing a prosthetic limb, get the materials from a Zetsu somehow, and then spend roughly a month or several to finish it instead of channeling this ability of hers through Naruto and having him regrow his own. How is that easier than placing your hands on them and allowing them to sprout a new arm easily within a very short time?

To moderators: I apologise for multiple posts. The same issue from before with the quotations and the site not loading has been ailing me.

Edited by Atheck, 07 May 2015 - 10:26 AM.