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#1921 Beastbomb

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:28 AM

Shall we remember just how old Sakura is. This is always the worst reply to her confession. My god, she is a freakin child still, these rash decisions are kind of expected. She tried whatever she could to keep him from leaving the village and you criticize her for trying to save a friend from becoming evil. Kudos my friend, for analyzing Sakura like you would an adult.

Funny thing is, Hinata hasn't won a single fight even with he martial arts capabilities. She can't even beat he cousin who has the same martial arts skills as her own, except they are more refinedthen hers thanks to his constant practice. Second, Sakura is a source of strength for Naruto, just look at Gaara arc an d you will see how much strentgh Naruto obtains without being possessed by a homicidal demon when Sakura is In danger.

Then Avatar with slap comedy vein used on Sokka and One Piece with slap comedy being used on Luffy make the authors/producers terrible writers to. Get my drift.

Edited by Beastbomb, 02 June 2013 - 06:30 AM.


#1922 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:31 AM

The simple fact that the ONLY person you're wailing on for working along side Sasuke at that point in time is Sakura, is just hilarious.

I guess Naruto's a sucky character too, because he seemed pretty happy and compliant that Sasuke was there.

OMG GUYS, Naruto must be a traiter!

*le gasp* I guess team 7 will be the new Akatsuki....

 

 

To be honest, I can't help but think that Team 7=New Akatsuki is gonna be more interesting than the current manga :hehehe:

 

Team 7 the new villain? DO WANT!!


Edited by ramenanmitsu, 02 June 2013 - 06:33 AM.

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#1923 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:35 AM

To be honest, I can't help but think that Team 7=New Akatsuki is gonna be more interesting than the current manga :hehehe:

 

Team 7 the new villain? DO WANT!!

Is it sad that I kinda agree? >___> on the other hand, It's like...the world would be doomed. They'd just dominate it. 


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                                         Pls shame me for procrastinating.  :argh: 


#1924 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:40 AM

Is it sad that I kinda agree? >___> on the other hand, It's like...the world would be doomed. They'd just dominate it. 

Even in their base mode they are unreachable. 

 

Imagine what it's going to be like when it goes like this.

Sasuke: Why don't we just destroy the world?

Naruto: Good Plan. Kurama is feeling hungry.

Sakura: Can I do the opening attack then?

Sasuke: No. Because then there would be no world to destroy. 

Naruto: That's true. 

 

On another note, I wonder what would it be like if we did a battle royale with all the strong shinobis. 

Like Team 7 vs. Previous 4 Hokages.

Team 7 vs. Sand Siblings

Team 7 vs. Five Kages

And well you get what I mean...


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#1925 Zatheko

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:52 AM

To be a great woman includes compasion and wisdom. Not hitting people. Not adhering to your own path for your own benefit.

 

If this series had any logic to it, or if you were able to admit to her flaws, Sakura would be held to account on all fronts.

 

She shafted her best friend Ino, all so she could chase after Sasuke. Now people say that she did this to grow out of Ino's shadow, but are you honestly telling me there was no other alternative? But instead she just abandons her friend...the complete antithesis of everything Naruto stands for.

 

She offered to join Sasuke in abandoning the village. She didn't give any thought to her friends, or the fact that Sasuke would be going to join a traitor who had just initiated a war that threatened the very lives of everyone in the village including her 'friends and comrades'. That she might eventually be called on to fight against those very people in order to stay with Sasuke never even bothered her in the least.

 

Her 'confession' was from self-interest. She may have been trying to save Naruto, but she also failed to understand him (a common thread throughout the series) and understand that it wasn't about 'the promise' on her part anymore, but that it was Naruto's goal to bring him back for his own reasons. It's no wonder why all those other's present look at her as if they'd rather not be anywhere near her.

 

When they leave the 'confession' site, she uses her comrades to track Sasuke...and then knocks them out and leaves them vulnerable. She knows that Sasuke has joined Akatsuki, and yet she still goes ahead and leaves them unconscious and vulnerable in an unfamiliar territory in an area where a known Akatsuki member is and that there may be others nearby for all she knows. All to further serve her own selfish goals with no regard for others.

 

People use RTN to justify things because it's Kishimoto behind the wheel. But then let's not forget that Sakura uses it to fulfil her own selfish desires to live free from what she sees as her overbearing parents. And she barely gives a thought to Naruto. One of her first actions when they get back to the village in that world is to squeal 'Sasuke-kun' and begin fangirling over him. She doesn't even give Naruto a second thought.

 

As for the latest chapter, it's not just because she says 'Sasuke-kun'. It's because there's a reason to suspect that she is blushing, and secondly that both Naruto and Sasuke are performing techniques and yet the first one she focuses on is Sasuke. And completely ignores Naruto. Now surely if they've both rushed in to that situation and Sakura cares about Naruto, the first concern in her head should be about Naruto. But it isn't. She focuses completely on Sasuke. Just like she has pretty much the entire series.

 

As to why I'm posting on here. It's because when I first started on here, I would have been happy no matter what the outcome in relationships with Sakura and Naruto would have been. That and I was promised a bash-free environment...which lasted all of about 7 posts before someone opened up on Ino...and nothing was done about it.

 

Over time, I've gradually just come to realise that Sakura is just a badly done character. She has very few redeeming features, and at all the key points where Kishimoto could have redeemed her flaws...they were missed badly.

 

And to Shadow Wolf: "-The simple fact that she is a normal girl and that she has accomplished this much is more than enough proof to conclude that she is more powerful than Hinata. And if you say that she is a doormat... then I wonder what does that say about Hinata. Keep in mind that you were the one who made this comment."

 

Originally, you could have made that argument. But unlike Sakura, Hinata evolved in that manner. Or did you miss where Naruto was wallowing in self-pity and Hinata slapped him and then brought him out of his funk? That she stood up to him in a positive way? Or that Hinata was the first to have a deeper insight into Naruto's character (chapter 96), whereas Sakura never has that about Sasuke, her 'love-interest'. And I say that because Sasuke has always been her focus, re: the promise. And now that he's back in the picture and temporarily on the good side, he's her focus again. She's back to her old ways.

-Hitting people, this is a Tsundere trait, if you watch anime you would know this. Inuyasha, ranma 1/2, Rurouni Kenshin and so many more have things like this.

 

-All of us here CAN admit to her flaws, it's the other people who bash her who can't admit to the things she does great in. Also in majority of those peoples eyes Hinata can do no wrong which I can easily tell you she has made mistakes. (pain arc anyone? she should have brought help instead of needlessly dying and ALMOST causing things to be far worse.)

 

-This did happen, as with Ino as well and many other young 12 year old girls who thought a crush on a cute boy was love, this is something that is relatable to real life as many young girls think crushes are love.

 

-Truly think about this one, it was her last attempt to try and keep Sasuke from leaving, she thought she may never see him again and said something in the spur of the moment to try and get him to see reason, as you can see this didn't work. Honestly if he had said yes I can bet you she would be second guessing what she said earlier.

 

-Self interest? No. She did that FOR Naruto, no matter what was said or how you view it the promise still played a part in all of this, and she didn't want that to hurt him anymore, she KNEW Naruto wanted to bring Sasuke back for his own reasons as well which is why she was willing to bare any hatred Naruto may have for her just to ease his pain from the promise.

 

-Her own selfish goals? You go with this again but no it's not. How is this any different from Naruto wanting to fight Sasuke on his own to bring him back? It's not, the bottom line is that the whole situation is team 7 related, and she did not want to bring the others into it when it wasn't something that needed to be done.

 

-Development, the whole thing was to have Sakura understand that she was thinking about Naruto and her whole situation all wrong. In the end she realizes this and with that realization the whole point has been made and she has developed greatly from it.

 

-She says his name because Sasuke is the FIRST one she sees, whether or not they both used skills to help her Sasuke was the first one to come into her vision. The blush thing is up for debate a lot believe it is dirt, and the panels afterwards help with this belief though we won't really know until it is animated. Also her saying his name with "kun" is normal, every character still uses the same suffixes with people that they have used since part 1, why should this change for only Sakura?

 

-You are a hypocrite then, if you believe in a bash free environment as you say then why add to this with your own senseless bashing?

 

-This can be said about any character, so many people have been left out to dry without development. But think about this, if her development is so poor, then why is she the MOST different out of all of the character since her transition form part 1 to shippuuden? She has had MAJOR development and it's not even done yet, you forget most of her development has to do with team 7 as a whole. How long has it been since team 7 stood together? A LONG time, now that they are finally together her final development can begin.

 

-Hinata was NOT the only one to bring him out of his state, Kurama reinforcing the words is what ultimately led to that, now I am  not saying Hinata did nothing, no 615 was great for her, it finally showed she has the development needed in order to lead the Hyuuga clan and she did play a part in helping Naruto I wont deny that. But like so many people before you, you see to only give Hinata the credit, to this I ask, why?

 

Sakura has NOT reverted back to her old ways like you say, if saying your teammates name one time means that she is back to her part 1 self, then idk what to tell you. I wonder why people think her happiness is such a surprise anyways. Ask yourself this, if your former teammate went crazy and suddenly left to join the wrong side for over 3 years FINALLY shows back up and is now helping you, wouldn't you feel happy? Why does it have to be romantic point of view form Sakura, why can't it be a "happy for team 7 to be back" moment?


Edited by zatheko, 02 June 2013 - 07:22 AM.


#1926 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:53 AM

Even in their base mode they are unreachable. 

 

Imagine what it's going to be like when it goes like this.

Sasuke: Why don't we just destroy the world?

Naruto: Good Plan. Kurama is feeling hungry.

Sakura: Can I do the opening attack then?

Sasuke: No. Because then there would be no world to destroy. 

Naruto: That's true. 

 

On another note, I wonder what would it be like if we did a battle royale with all the strong shinobis. 

Like Team 7 vs. Previous 4 Hokages.

Team 7 vs. Sand Siblings

Team 7 vs. Five Kages

And well you get what I mean...

I'm pretty sure Kankuro and Temari would go down pretty easy...Gaara on the other hand might be a challenge, but would go down eventually.

the other two might be more challenging, specifically the 4 previous Hokage's. I mean Hashirama is the "God of Shinobi."...and then there's is also the yondaime...I would honestly love to see a matchup between Minato and Naruto though. 

More on topic though, this whole "Sakura said Sasuke's name omg OMG CHARACTER REGRESSION! Thing is just like...tumblr_inline_mnefy7qlpl1qz4rgp.gif

So, if in the heat of battle, someone pops up to you and in both surprise, and gratitude you say his name...all of a sudden it has romantic notations behind it..good to know. 

On the other hand, the fact that Sakura says to Naruto "Don't be making a big deal out of something small" And then goes on to teasingly say that if he does she'll take away the post of Hokage right out from under his nose should negate that notion. Her final words rested on him, her eyes were on him if I recall correctly, not Sasuke. 

If sakura were fangirling over Sasuke so hard, she would have A. been all over him like in part 1, B never taken her eyes off of him. 


Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 02 June 2013 - 07:02 AM.

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                                         Pls shame me for procrastinating.  :argh: 


#1927 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:17 AM

I'm pretty sure Kankuro and Temari would go down pretty easy...Gaara on the other hand might be a challenge, but would go down eventually.

the other two might be more challenging, specifically the 4 previous Hokage's. I mean Hashirama is the "God of Shinobi."...and then there's is also the yondaime...I would honestly love to see a matchup between Minato and Naruto though. 

More on topic though, this whole "Sakura said Sasuke's name omg OMG CHARACTER REGRESSION! Thing is just like...tumblr_inline_mnefy7qlpl1qz4rgp.gif

So, if in the heat of battle, someone pops up to you and in both surprise, and gratitude you say his name...all of a sudden it has romantic notations behind it..good to know. 

On the other hand, the fact that Sakura says to Naruto "Don't be making a big deal out of something small" And then goes on to teasingly say that if he does she'll take away the post of Hokage right out from under his nose should negate that notion. Her final words rested on him, her eyes were on him if I recall correctly, not Sasuke. 

If sakura were fangirling over Sasuke so hard, she would have A. been all over him like in part 1, B never taken her eyes off of him. 

I'm thinking that Orochimaru has a plan. Suigetsu said that Orochimaru could completely change the tides of war. And as it standing right now, Naruto's side has the advantage. So we might be able to see Orochimaru turn the Four Hokages against him. 

 

I wonder who in Team 7 could Gaara win at this point?

Naruto vs Gaara 

Sasuke vs Gaara

Sakura vs Gaara

 

I'm too much of in a good mood to even care about people thinking she was fan girling. I just wish people would stop feeding the virgin troll who thinks that a girl calling his name means tru wub     :zaru:


Edited by ramenanmitsu, 02 June 2013 - 07:24 AM.

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#1928 Derock

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:19 AM

To be a great woman includes compasion and wisdom. Not hitting people. Not adhering to your own path for your own benefit.

 

If this series had any logic to it, or if you were able to admit to her flaws, Sakura would be held to account on all fronts.

 

She shafted her best friend Ino, all so she could chase after Sasuke. Now people say that she did this to grow out of Ino's shadow, but are you honestly telling me there was no other alternative? But instead she just abandons her friend...the complete antithesis of everything Naruto stands for.

 

She offered to join Sasuke in abandoning the village. She didn't give any thought to her friends, or the fact that Sasuke would be going to join a traitor who had just initiated a war that threatened the very lives of everyone in the village including her 'friends and comrades'. That she might eventually be called on to fight against those very people in order to stay with Sasuke never even bothered her in the least.

 

Her 'confession' was from self-interest. She may have been trying to save Naruto, but she also failed to understand him (a common thread throughout the series) and understand that it wasn't about 'the promise' on her part anymore, but that it was Naruto's goal to bring him back for his own reasons. It's no wonder why all those other's present look at her as if they'd rather not be anywhere near her.

 

When they leave the 'confession' site, she uses her comrades to track Sasuke...and then knocks them out and leaves them vulnerable. She knows that Sasuke has joined Akatsuki, and yet she still goes ahead and leaves them unconscious and vulnerable in an unfamiliar territory in an area where a known Akatsuki member is and that there may be others nearby for all she knows. All to further serve her own selfish goals with no regard for others.

 

People use RTN to justify things because it's Kishimoto behind the wheel. But then let's not forget that Sakura uses it to fulfil her own selfish desires to live free from what she sees as her overbearing parents. And she barely gives a thought to Naruto. One of her first actions when they get back to the village in that world is to squeal 'Sasuke-kun' and begin fangirling over him. She doesn't even give Naruto a second thought.

 

As for the latest chapter, it's not just because she says 'Sasuke-kun'. It's because there's a reason to suspect that she is blushing, and secondly that both Naruto and Sasuke are performing techniques and yet the first one she focuses on is Sasuke. And completely ignores Naruto. Now surely if they've both rushed in to that situation and Sakura cares about Naruto, the first concern in her head should be about Naruto. But it isn't. She focuses completely on Sasuke. Just like she has pretty much the entire series.

 

As to why I'm posting on here. It's because when I first started on here, I would have been happy no matter what the outcome in relationships with Sakura and Naruto would have been. That and I was promised a bash-free environment...which lasted all of about 7 posts before someone opened up on Ino...and nothing was done about it.

 

Over time, I've gradually just come to realise that Sakura is just a badly done character. She has very few redeeming features, and at all the key points where Kishimoto could have redeemed her flaws...they were missed badly.

 

And to Shadow Wolf: "-The simple fact that she is a normal girl and that she has accomplished this much is more than enough proof to conclude that she is more powerful than Hinata. And if you say that she is a doormat... then I wonder what does that say about Hinata. Keep in mind that you were the one who made this comment."

 

Originally, you could have made that argument. But unlike Sakura, Hinata evolved in that manner. Or did you miss where Naruto was wallowing in self-pity and Hinata slapped him and then brought him out of his funk? That she stood up to him in a positive way? Or that Hinata was the first to have a deeper insight into Naruto's character (chapter 96), whereas Sakura never has that about Sasuke, her 'love-interest'. And I say that because Sasuke has always been her focus, re: the promise. And now that he's back in the picture and temporarily on the good side, he's her focus again. She's back to her old ways.

 

Seriously, you need to stop viewing Sakura as a real-life person because she isn't.

 

First off, on the hitting people, there are other characters, especially females, that does this act in other series for the sake of COMEDY! You do realize that this series is not only action but also comedy as its main genres? You think everytime Sakura beats up Naruto, it is consider as domestic violence?! Afraid not. This happens not only in animes/mangas but also western media as well. That mindset of "hitting people is SO serious" needs to go.

 

On the flaws: Ino did it too, you want to know why? They were 12/13 year olds! Seriously, girls at that age are into boys that are cute, cool, and handsome (or should I say, "pretty boy"). Sad to say, but it is true in real life.

 

Her confession towards Sasuke: She DID thought about her friends (especially Naruto and Kakashi, you know, her teammate and sensei) as she was trying to persuade Sasuke to stay, instead of walking towards his path of vengeance by going to Orochimaru. She said all of that because of, what's the word? Desperation. Did you ignore the panel of her and the team when she was speaking at the time?

 

Now the confession towards Naruto: Ah yes, the one that suppose to bring drama (another important genre this series has). As someone else's said: it was suppose to lift Naruto's burdens. Problem is that you're applying Naruto's quote as a major issue, while ignoring the fact that he did chew on his own words, when Sai and, less to extent, Gaara explained the details.

 

Used her comrades? OMG, She saved them from her burden. You do realized at the time Sasuke has a higher chance of killing all of them, if Sakura hadn't used the sleep gas? Imagine this, I hardly doubt the combined focus of Kiba, Lee and Sai will give Sasuke trouble. Not to mention the fact that the setup was for the original Team 7 reunion. And how could a Akatsuki member would start something of attacking enemies, especially if they were handicapped at the moment?  This series isn't that dark for that kind of scene.

 

RTN: My god, stop. Sakura DID NOT squeal Sasuke's name all of the time. You need to rewatch the movie or shall I explain the details:

 

First off: her mother, Mebuki, initially embarassed her outloud in front of her friends because she, Sakura, was acting like a true tomboy: doesn't cook, doesn't clean, do laundry, and is very messy. Que in anger and add in normal teenage lifestyle of kids disobeying their parents. 

 

Sakura complained about her parents towards Naruto before Madara/Tobi came in since she is living in a "strict family life". During her complaining, she wished she had less strict parents. She had mentioned this,  "Sasuke could understand her", because he did had parents alive before, remember? 

 

Next, in the AU! world: first off, Sakura was shocked along with Naruto, seeing Sasuke for the first time in the village. This gave Sasuke the impression that they looked like they had seen a ghost.

 

Next day, in AU! world: obviously, this is the scene you should complain about because its the one that Sasuke gives her the rose. What you have fail to look is that during the movie when she was at home, the rose starts to wilt and then died.

 

When Sakura went out for a walk, she saw Sasuke but with a bunch of girls, whom were fangirls. That didn't work well for Sakura...

 

But while this was going on in the AU! world, guess who was with her all throughout the movie? Naruto. I don't know how the hell you keep on saying she doesn't give Naruto a second thought when she was with him all the freaking time in the movie, expressing her thoughts and feelings for him, especially the fact his parents are alive and well.

 

This chapter: You basically fail, because many of the members pointed out these important creditials:

 

1) There is NO Blush on Sakura, whatsoever on the panel. That was dirt. Dirt and smuges were all over her because they in the middle of the battlefield...

2) Sasuke got there first, obviously. That's why she said his name.

3) She DID NOT ignored Naruto. Her quotes is a form a teasing. She's basically saying, "Are you jealous of me saying Sasuke's name because he got here first? Baby, stop focusing on little things or I'll take the Hokage seat both out of your noses!" Panel proof: look at her eyes' direction, guess who she's speaking to, and it ain't Sasuke!

4) Again, suffixes are a common norm. Reread the chapter 310/11. Sai talked about this in detail. Try see the difference why Sakura never add "-kun" for Naruto.

 

Also this apply to 4 as well, why on earth you're worrying Sakura calling Sasuke, "Sasuke-kun" all the time? Guess who doing the same toward Naruto everytime she saw him or be near him? And what about Lee because he's also in this category?

 

Flaws: I'm guessing you like characters whom are consider "perfect". Guess what? ALL of the characters have flaws, and that's include Hinata. Say all you want, but obviously this girl has the worst development than Sakura that many fans, including you, seem to ignore while praising Hinata like she's a goddess. Supposed to be a stronger ninja by improving and believing herself, since she's a heir to the most prestigous clans of Konoha? She finally got to that point, I admit. However, she's consider pairing foddler (many NH fans sees this), satelite character (all around and about Naruto), and plot device (her confession and supposed one-hit wonder towards Pain).  Has better skills? Not really and certain not even close in recent chapters. Neji has had better combat skills than her and Sakura beaten her in this department and this is going through the databooks. Also, deeper insight? Really? Hinata had little information about Naruto's character compare to *ahem* the following people: Sakura, Kakashi, Iruka, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Sai, and Shikamaru. Might as well add Sasuke and Gaara on the list.

 

Also, 615, that "NH" moment, it was also Kurama who did the talking as well. Many forgot or should I say ignore because you're too glued on this girl who has nothing to do with the main plot.

 

So basically, Sakura IS NOT and WILL NOT be the same as her beginning self back in Part 1. This needs to stop, really. The bashing on her is all over the place. Many of you are taking this way too seriously. And its unhealthy.


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#1929 Will_Of_Fire

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:24 AM

To Zatheko - I know it's an anime trait. It's also a useless one that has long since outlived any usefulness in any form. It's like a creme pie to the face...yawn!

 

"-All of us here CAN admit to her flaws, it's the other people who bash her who can't admit to the things she does great in. Also in majority of those peoples eyes Hinata can do no wrong which I can easily tell you she has made mistakes. (pain arc anyone? she should have brought help instead of needlessly dying and ALMOST causing things to be far worse.)"

 

My reply: Others were going to help. Shikamaru was going to, but was held back. She more than likely assumed that the 'Will Of Fire" would have others automatically come to his aid. I mean you'd assume that they would, given that if they take out that one last figure it's all over and Naruto is giving them a path towards a victory they didn't have before. And why wasn't Sakura so ready to go down and assist Naruto then? Because she was a medic? At that point most of those who fought Pain were already dead, and there was more value to engaging Pain there and keeping others from becoming further casualties by ensuring his focus was there alone. That's what made Hinata's action worthwhile at that point. Hinata's appearance, even if in terms of immediate effect by her, did at least assure Naruto that he wasn't alone, that he wasn't the only one out there willing to fight Pain alongside him. It's comradeship, one of the core values that Naruto espouses and embodies. Being there for your teammates and comrades. It wasn't THE smartest thing to do, but someone at that point had to step in to do something to turn the tide and provide that motivation for the only one who was on par with Pain.

 

I know full well that Hinata is fallible. Her stuttering, her tendancy to shy away from confrontation in the early chapters, her fear of her family members, her inability to engage in combat at a distance. But by the time the Fourth Great Shinobi War comes around, she's addressed most of those issues and her character has greater strength than she did before in both personal growth and otherwise.

 

Zatheko wrote: "Self interest? No. She did that FOR Naruto, no matter what was said or how you view it the promise still played a part in all of this, and she didn't want that to hurt him anymore, she KNEW Naruto wanted to bring Sasuke back for his own reasons as well which is why she was willing to bare any hatred Naruto may have for her just to ease his pain from the promise."

 

My reply: She may have done it FOR Naruto. But the very fact that she didn't take into consideration his desires or state of mind, that she didn't even bother to contemplate that he may have had his own reasons for wanting to go after Sasuke, just show how little thought she puts into things considering Naruto. Not only that, but she's taking advice on an emotional issue from someone who has no real understanding of emotions (Sai). And you're telling me that that's a valid and logical choice of confidant and advisor in this situation?

 

Zatheko wrote: "She says his name because Sasuke is the FIRST one she sees, whether or not they both used skills to help her Sasuke was the first one to come into her vision. The blush thing is up for debate a lot believe it is dirt, and the panels afterwards help with this belief though we won't really know until it is animated. Also her saying his name with "kun" is normal, every character still uses the same suffixes with people that they have used since part 1, why should this change for only Sakura?"

 

My reply: Actually, that's not entirely true. After all, Sakura does call Naruto 'Naruto-kun' when in front of Kakashi at first. I think for Sakura, who in most cases isn't afraid to tell others what she thinks, it's a decided point. Her calling Sasuke 'Sasuke-kun' was from when they were at the Academy and she was infatuated with him. At the same time, it's a telling point that she continues to call Naruto just plain 'Naruto' as a continuation from the time when all she showed him was spite and derision.

 

Zatheko wrote: "Hinata was NOT the only one to bring him out of his state, Kurama reinforcing the words is what ultimately led to that, now I am not saying Hinata did nothing, no 615 was great for her, it finally showed she has the development needed in order to lead the Hyuuga clan and she did play a part in helping Naruto I wont deny that. But like so many people before you, you see to only give Hinata the credit, to this I ask, why?"

 

So you're saying that the initiator, the flash of light that broke through the fog that was clouding his mind isn't important? Kurama would never have gotten through to him if she hadn't begun the process. Her stepping out of character and showing her growth was something like a shock factor that finally established a point where Kurama could then take over. And as you said, Kurama 'reinforced' her words. All he was doing was rehashing the already established point, though it did definitely have an effect. But it wasn't necessarily the driving force.

 

Zatheko wrote: "Ask yourself this, if your former teammate went crazy and suddenly left to join the wrong side for over 3 years FINALLY shows back up and is now helping you, wouldn't you feel happy? Why does it have to be romantic point of view form Sakura, why can't it be a "happy for team 7 to be back" moment?"

 

My reply: No, actually I'd be deeply suspicious that someone who is a borderline psychopath and changes their mind at the snap of a pair of fingers and has committed numerous crimes has suddenly decided to join the fight on your side. Someone who had the potential to redeem themselves and lead a life dedicated to goals that weren't dictated by the last words of an apparent mass-murderer and whose motives and actions were never questioned by the last person that mass-murderer left alive. I would also assume that the very fact that he joined an organization dedicated to capturing and killing me while extracting a chakra entity from my body as well as one that had for a short span of time killed one of my best friends, meant I had no reason to trust him or have any sort of loyalty to him.



#1930 Zatheko

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:38 AM

To Zatheko - I know it's an anime trait. It's also a useless one that has long since outlived any usefulness in any form. It's like a creme pie to the face...yawn!

 

"-All of us here CAN admit to her flaws, it's the other people who bash her who can't admit to the things she does great in. Also in majority of those peoples eyes Hinata can do no wrong which I can easily tell you she has made mistakes. (pain arc anyone? she should have brought help instead of needlessly dying and ALMOST causing things to be far worse.)"

 

My reply: Others were going to help. Shikamaru was going to, but was held back. She more than likely assumed that the 'Will Of Fire" would have others automatically come to his aid. I mean you'd assume that they would, given that if they take out that one last figure it's all over and Naruto is giving them a path towards a victory they didn't have before. And why wasn't Sakura so ready to go down and assist Naruto then? Because she was a medic? At that point most of those who fought Pain were already dead, and there was more value to engaging Pain there and keeping others from becoming further casualties by ensuring his focus was there alone. That's what made Hinata's action worthwhile at that point. Hinata's appearance, even if in terms of immediate effect by her, did at least assure Naruto that he wasn't alone, that he wasn't the only one out there willing to fight Pain alongside him. It's comradeship, one of the core values that Naruto espouses and embodies. Being there for your teammates and comrades. It wasn't THE smartest thing to do, but someone at that point had to step in to do something to turn the tide and provide that motivation for the only one who was on par with Pain.

 

I know full well that Hinata is fallible. Her stuttering, her tendancy to shy away from confrontation in the early chapters, her fear of her family members, her inability to engage in combat at a distance. But by the time the Fourth Great Shinobi War comes around, she's addressed most of those issues and her character has greater strength than she did before in both personal growth and otherwise.

 

Zatheko wrote: "Self interest? No. She did that FOR Naruto, no matter what was said or how you view it the promise still played a part in all of this, and she didn't want that to hurt him anymore, she KNEW Naruto wanted to bring Sasuke back for his own reasons as well which is why she was willing to bare any hatred Naruto may have for her just to ease his pain from the promise."

 

My reply: She may have done it FOR Naruto. But the very fact that she didn't take into consideration his desires or state of mind, that she didn't even bother to contemplate that he may have had his own reasons for wanting to go after Sasuke, just show how little thought she puts into things considering Naruto. Not only that, but she's taking advice on an emotional issue from someone who has no real understanding of emotions (Sai). And you're telling me that that's a valid and logical choice of confidant and advisor in this situation?

 

Zatheko wrote: "She says his name because Sasuke is the FIRST one she sees, whether or not they both used skills to help her Sasuke was the first one to come into her vision. The blush thing is up for debate a lot believe it is dirt, and the panels afterwards help with this belief though we won't really know until it is animated. Also her saying his name with "kun" is normal, every character still uses the same suffixes with people that they have used since part 1, why should this change for only Sakura?"

 

My reply: Actually, that's not entirely true. After all, Sakura does call Naruto 'Naruto-kun' when in front of Kakashi at first. I think for Sakura, who in most cases isn't afraid to tell others what she thinks, it's a decided point. Her calling Sasuke 'Sasuke-kun' was from when they were at the Academy and she was infatuated with him. At the same time, it's a telling point that she continues to call Naruto just plain 'Naruto' as a continuation from the time when all she showed him was spite and derision.

 

Zatheko wrote: "Hinata was NOT the only one to bring him out of his state, Kurama reinforcing the words is what ultimately led to that, now I am not saying Hinata did nothing, no 615 was great for her, it finally showed she has the development needed in order to lead the Hyuuga clan and she did play a part in helping Naruto I wont deny that. But like so many people before you, you see to only give Hinata the credit, to this I ask, why?"

 

So you're saying that the initiator, the flash of light that broke through the fog that was clouding his mind isn't important? Kurama would never have gotten through to him if she hadn't begun the process. Her stepping out of character and showing her growth was something like a shock factor that finally established a point where Kurama could then take over. And as you said, Kurama 'reinforced' her words. All he was doing was rehashing the already established point, though it did definitely have an effect. But it wasn't necessarily the driving force.

 

Zatheko wrote: "Ask yourself this, if your former teammate went crazy and suddenly left to join the wrong side for over 3 years FINALLY shows back up and is now helping you, wouldn't you feel happy? Why does it have to be romantic point of view form Sakura, why can't it be a "happy for team 7 to be back" moment?"

 

My reply: No, actually I'd be deeply suspicious that someone who is a borderline psychopath and changes their mind at the snap of a pair of fingers and has committed numerous crimes has suddenly decided to join the fight on your side. Someone who had the potential to redeem themselves and lead a life dedicated to goals that weren't dictated by the last words of an apparent mass-murderer and whose motives and actions were never questioned by the last person that mass-murderer left alive. I would also assume that the very fact that he joined an organization dedicated to capturing and killing me while extracting a chakra entity from my body as well as one that had for a short span of time killed one of my best friends, meant I had no reason to trust him or have any sort of loyalty to him.

-It's just as cliche and boring as the shy girl who watches the guy form afar and slowly builds courage throughout the show.

 

-I see this way to many times "why didn't Sakura help Naruto vs pain?" I guess she should have used her byakugan to see when Naruto was in trouble, wait never mind she doesn't have an all seeing eye technique unlike Hinata. Which is another thing if you want to ask that then I will ask this "If Hinata has byakugan and can see the whole battle, then why didn't she sooner get people together in order to run down there to help Naruto" simple because she stated herself that she did it for SELFISH reasons.

 

-She knows Naruto has his own reason for going after Naruto, it's like I said to her him being in pain because of Sasuke is greater then getting Sasuke back in the first place, it truly shows how deep she cares for Naruto. She knows he wants to get him back for himself as well, but the pain caused instead by Sasuke and the promise prompted her to act rash.

 

-No it's not the same, all the characters call them with the same suffixes no matter what, just wait and see when NS becomes canon Hinata will still call Naruto "Naruto-Kun" Naruto will call Sakura "Sakura-Chan" and Sakura will call Sasuke "Sasuke-Kun" plus all the side characters will continue to call them that too, Ino will call him Sasuke-Kun too. You know why? Because it's ALWAYS been "Sasuke-Kun".

 

-You must have ignored what I said, I already acknowledged Hinata's part in this, I was just pointing out that YOU, like so many NH/H fans, only point out Hinata's part when Kurama and Neji played just as big of a part.

 

-Then you think differently, you are thinking as someone who never truly had a friendship or bond with the person, but when you have a close bond with someone it is different. In a persons mind they like to hope that the old them is still in there, this is what Naruto does. Tell me why is it ok for Naruto to continue to believe in Sasuke and fight alongside him no problem but not Sakura, plus she is seeing Naruto go to his side first with no hesitation the same Naruto she believes in so much (before you say she doesn't i'll remind you of when kibas team and team 7 met tobi, Hinata was worried for Naruto and it was SAKURA who told her not to worry and believe in Naruto.) and because she believes in Naruto that will also make it easier for her to trust him as well.


Edited by zatheko, 02 June 2013 - 07:39 AM.


#1931 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:51 AM

I just found an awesome AMV and it made my mood sky-rocket  :lol:
Truthfully I was so focused on Sakura's power-up I forgot about Naruto and NaruSaku. 
But this AMV made me remember the awesomeness of them two! 
 
Just thought I would share. The lyrics fit so much when Naruto becomes the Hokage.


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#1932 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:51 AM

 No, actually I'd be deeply suspicious that someone who is a borderline psychopath and changes their mind at the snap of a pair of fingers and has committed numerous crimes has suddenly decided to join the fight on your side. Someone who had the potential to redeem themselves and lead a life dedicated to goals that weren't dictated by the last words of an apparent mass-murderer and whose motives and actions were never questioned by the last person that mass-murderer left alive. I would also assume that the very fact that he joined an organization dedicated to capturing and killing me while extracting a chakra entity from my body as well as one that had for a short span of time killed one of my best friends, meant I had no reason to trust him or have any sort of loyalty to him.

You ignored my point about Naruto, so AGAIN, he seems quite content that Sasuke's there. 

So by your point here, I must  assume Naruto is a sucky character who has learned nothing. ( in your opionion.) because if you have a problem with one person doing such a thing, it should be applicable to another...UNLESS your problem isn't with the action, but the character. (which clearly it is.) 

Secondly,
 EVERYONE there seems pretty damn  suspicious of Sasuke, including Sakura no doubt. Actually, all of your points are invalid, but this one is what gets me the most. Here you are harping on Sakura, when EVERYONE there is allowing Sasuke to take part. Why? because they NEED him. 

Therefore; tumblr_mkhzjwQTnl1rgn3h3o1_500.gif

My opinion and diagnosis is this; You never really liked Sakura as you have claimed, because you're entirely to vitriol about her to have ever done so. You are upset because Hinata is taking a backseat and will probably continue to do so. You're upset, because Naruto had the guts to proclaim Sakura as his GF. 

Well to bad, so sad. 


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                                         Pls shame me for procrastinating.  :argh: 


#1933 Zatheko

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:01 AM

I just found an awesome AMV and it made my mood sky-rocket  :lol:
Truthfully I was so focused on Sakura's power-up I forgot about Naruto and NaruSaku. 
But this AMV made me remember the awesomeness of them two! 
 
Just thought I would share. The lyrics fit so much when Naruto becomes the Hokage.

Wow that was good, been a while since I have seen a really good NaruSaku amv.

 

Though this should go in a different place, there is an amv thread here http://www.narusaku....?showtopic=6413 :D



#1934 Will_Of_Fire

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:04 AM

To Zatheko: Friendship and bond? Ask any member of the armed forces this question and they'll tell you the same thing: Combat creates enduring bonds between those who serve on the frontlines. But if any of them betrayed another, it would merit them hunting that person down or if they ever met them again, shooting them. Nothing can be more drastic than the betrayal of bonds. If you serve in an armed force, you're trusting that person in your unit with your life and safety, you develop intense bonds of trust with those around you. If you undermine those...there is no redemption. You are a non-person, refuse to be collected and disposed of. When Sasuke betrayed the village, he should have been hunted down and slaughtered, his body burnt to stop the Sharingan or any other village secrets from getting out.

 

Zatheko wrote: "I see this way to many times "why didn't Sakura help Naruto vs pain?" I guess she should have used her byakugan to see when Naruto was in trouble, wait never mind she doesn't have an all seeing eye technique unlike Hinata. Which is another thing if you want to ask that then I will ask this "If Hinata has byakugan and can see the whole battle, then why didn't she sooner get people together in order to run down there to help Naruto" simple because she stated herself that she did it for SELFISH reasons."

 

My reply: Or she just implicitly believed that an able-bodied kunoichi would follow her into combat as she should have, rather than stare after the aforementioned Hyuuga and just do nothing. Ko would even have gone after her, if he wasn't injured. Heck, he even did try but was unable to due to aforementioned injury.

 

Did I ever say I was a NH fan? Admitedly I did become one when I saw the direction Sakura's character was taking, but assumption is the first mistake in these situations. Just like when Derock instantly assumed I wouldn't admit Hinata had flaws. I openly admit she has flaws. But do you really think that someone like Sakura would be the best for someone who grew up in an emotionally volatile environment? That she could ever truly understand his mindset or that she could truly offer him the support he needs because she understands it. She's shown on the multiple examples I've listed that she has limited understanding of how others think. She doesn't apply others attitudes to it, she always takes it from the way SHE thinks things. Like her listening to Sai about how to address the fact that her promise is gradually killing Naruto. She listens to him about an emotional matter. That is just a really bad move, following someone's advice about an emotional matter when they have no understanding of it.

 

I also note that in each post you've never addressed the fact that Sakura knocked her comrades unconscious and left them vulnerable in the aftermath of the 'confession' when they were tracking Sasuke.

 

Because Naruto is doing it out of his core values that involve his hero-complex. There's no real underlying reasoning or logic behind his devotion to Sasuke, he never truly questions it just accepts that some form of rivalry between the two of them implies acceptance. He never offered to join Sasuke in leaving the village.



#1935 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:06 AM

@Zatheko

Oh my bad. Thanks for directing me  :P


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#1936 Zatheko

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:13 AM

To Zatheko: Friendship and bond? Ask any member of the armed forces this question and they'll tell you the same thing: Combat creates enduring bonds between those who serve on the frontlines. But if any of them betrayed another, it would merit them hunting that person down or if they ever met them again, shooting them. Nothing can be more drastic than the betrayal of bonds. If you serve in an armed force, you're trusting that person in your unit with your life and safety, you develop intense bonds of trust with those around you. If you undermine those...there is no redemption. You are a non-person, refuse to be collected and disposed of. When Sasuke betrayed the village, he should have been hunted down and slaughtered, his body burnt to stop the Sharingan or any other village secrets from getting out.

 

Zatheko wrote: "I see this way to many times "why didn't Sakura help Naruto vs pain?" I guess she should have used her byakugan to see when Naruto was in trouble, wait never mind she doesn't have an all seeing eye technique unlike Hinata. Which is another thing if you want to ask that then I will ask this "If Hinata has byakugan and can see the whole battle, then why didn't she sooner get people together in order to run down there to help Naruto" simple because she stated herself that she did it for SELFISH reasons."

 

My reply: Or she just implicitly believed that an able-bodied kunoichi would follow her into combat as she should have, rather than stare after the aforementioned Hyuuga and just do nothing. Ko would even have gone after her, if he wasn't injured. Heck, he even did try but was unable to due to aforementioned injury.

 

Did I ever say I was a NH fan? Admitedly I did become one when I saw the direction Sakura's character was taking, but assumption is the first mistake in these situations. Just like when Derock instantly assumed I wouldn't admit Hinata had flaws. I openly admit she has flaws. But do you really think that someone like Sakura would be the best for someone who grew up in an emotionally volatile environment? That she could ever truly understand his mindset or that she could truly offer him the support he needs because she understands it. She's shown on the multiple examples I've listed that she has limited understanding of how others think. She doesn't apply others attitudes to it, she always takes it from the way SHE thinks things. Like her listening to Sai about how to address the fact that her promise is gradually killing Naruto. She listens to him about an emotional matter. That is just a really bad move, following someone's advice about an emotional matter when they have no understanding of it.

 

I also note that in each post you've never addressed the fact that Sakura knocked her comrades unconscious and left them vulnerable in the aftermath of the 'confession' when they were tracking Sasuke.

 

Because Naruto is doing it out of his core values that involve his hero-complex. There's no real underlying reasoning or logic behind his devotion to Sasuke, he never truly questions it just accepts that some form of rivalry between the two of them implies acceptance. He never offered to join Sasuke in leaving the village.

-Well it is a good thing that able-bodied kunoichi stayed behind, she did heal Hinata after all. Plus like I said before she doesn't have the hyuuga eyes now does she? I guess she should see through all the smoke on her own  :confused:

 

The way you talk makes you sound like a NH fan, the way you try to ignore any development Sakura has had and go straight to worshiping Hinata when in all honesty she has not really done near the amount Sakura has done for Naruto, if you are counting throwing away her life for him then that is stupid.

 

Another H&E member has already addressed the issue on leaving the comrades behind when she went for Sasuke, also I have put a reason in there already you just failed to see it.

 

You want the truth as to why Naruto still chases Sasuke? Even when by normal in real life standards he shouldn't? Well there is one clear and simple solution to that. This is an anime, it is NOT real life. If Kishi wants Naruto to keep chasing Sasuke then that is HIS story, and since he has Naruto continue to do this it leaves Sakura in a position where she either trusts his judgement or not, and after their reunion at the kage summit he restored Sakura faith in that she should believe in them. So there is the "reason" for her being happy that Sasuke can just come back and all of a sudden help. You blame Sakura for this, yet its clear you are upset over everyones decisions as a whole with Sasuke and only the manga artist himself is to blame for that because this is the path he took. If you disagree with it then thats too bad.  :confused:



#1937 Will_Of_Fire

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:16 AM

To Tsuki Hoshino: There is a VAST difference between someone who's motives are to protect friends and 'pseudo-family', and one who has clearly shown he's happy with murdering others if it gets him to his ultimate prize which serves no-one but himself. Sasuke's proven he's willing to sacrifice people close to him, just look at what he did to Karin.

 

Tsuki Hoshino wrote: "My opinion and diagnosis is this; You never really liked Sakura as you have claimed, because you're entirely to vitriol about her to have ever done so. You are upset because Hinata is taking a backseat and will probably continue to do so. You're upset, because Naruto had the guts to proclaim Sakura as his GF."

 

I did actually like her. Your attitude towards Sasuke shows that you don't see betrayal as something that should negatively influence something.

 

There was a case in Russia a few years ago where some kid saw that Itachi had died in the manga. He was such an avid Itachi fan that he then went out to the roof of his apartment block and threw himself off the roof. I'm not saying that it's to that degree, but when you see a character who you think is becoming better and has actually slumped into misguided attempts to try and correct things and constantly does nothing but cause pain to someone who should supposedly be close and like family to her, then yeah, I'm going to become 'vitriolic'.

 

Notice that I used 'vitriolic' in these quotes, that's because vitriolic doesn't come close to what I've said. In fact I've presented logical and fact based argument. That is not vitriolic, it's called making a case to back your opinion. It's a fundamental basis for all research.



#1938 Zatheko

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:20 AM

To Tsuki Hoshino: There is a VAST difference between someone who's motives are to protect friends and 'pseudo-family', and one who has clearly shown he's happy with murdering others if it gets him to his ultimate prize which serves no-one but himself. Sasuke's proven he's willing to sacrifice people close to him, just look at what he did to Karin.

 

Tsuki Hoshino wrote: "My opinion and diagnosis is this; You never really liked Sakura as you have claimed, because you're entirely to vitriol about her to have ever done so. You are upset because Hinata is taking a backseat and will probably continue to do so. You're upset, because Naruto had the guts to proclaim Sakura as his GF."

 

I did actually like her. Your attitude towards Sasuke shows that you don't see betrayal as something that should negatively influence something.

 

There was a case in Russia a few years ago where some kid saw that Itachi had died in the manga. He was such an avid Itachi fan that he then went out to the roof of his apartment block and threw himself off the roof. I'm not saying that it's to that degree, but when you see a character who you think is becoming better and has actually slumped into misguided attempts to try and correct things and constantly does nothing but cause pain to someone who should supposedly be close and like family to her, then yeah, I'm going to become 'vitriolic'.

 

Notice that I used 'vitriolic' in these quotes, that's because vitriolic doesn't come close to what I've said. In fact I've presented logical and fact based argument. That is not vitriolic, it's called making a case to back your opinion. It's a fundamental basis for all research.

Once again, this is your main problem.

 

You are associating something in real life with a manga, things will NOT happen in Naruto like how they should in real life, I think you REALLY need to let go of this viewpoint of yours other wise you will constantly be blind to the truths.

 

If this was based on real life then Sasuke would have been killed a long time ago for his actions, Naruto or Sakura one of the two would have moved on long ago. Gaara who originally killed people would not be selected as the leader of Suna. I can go on and on but I won't because this is obvious stuff that I shouldn't need to point out.


Edited by zatheko, 02 June 2013 - 08:21 AM.


#1939 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:24 AM

@Will of Fire: I also note that in each post you've never addressed the fact that Sakura knocked her comrades unconscious and left them vulnerable in the aftermath of the 'confession' when they were tracking Sasuke.

You mean just like you've failed to address my point about Naruto, Sakura and ALL of the rookies  accepting Sasuke's presence for the time being, yet you only rag on Sakura for doing such a thing? 

Is my point not worth you're time, or are you simply ignoring it due to not having a response?

Either way allow me to tackle the point that you have posed, even though I'm pretty sure Derock already covered it. She left them there because they were in DANGER, I think it's pretty freaking obvious that Sakura would never have left them alone in the woods like that if she felt that there was a better option on hand. She had a responsibility she had to follow through with and decided not to drag others down with her needlessly. 

So what, she left them there. They don't make a big stink about it like you are and they were the ones you claim were in danger, so what does that tell us?

It wasn't a big deal. 

Actually, it wasn't a deal AT ALL since it was never mentioned again.

Kinda like Hinata's confession. 

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                                         Pls shame me for procrastinating.  :argh: 


#1940 Will_Of_Fire

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:31 AM

To Tsuki Hoshino:

She LEFT them in danger. She left them in an unknown territory to hunt a member of Akatsuki, unconscious, and unaware as to whether or not there were other Akatsuki operatives around.

 

How did she know or how could she be sure that Kisame wouldn't come along and slit their throats while they laid there? Did she even ask any of her 'comrades' to detect if there were any other Akatsuki in the area? Nope? Strange, isn't it?

 

Such a lack of foresight and devotion to her own goals to the neglect of others.






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