19964 replies to this topic

[Transformers03]

You know, I've just had an epiphany that others probably had long ago, but I'm really just now thinking about it and understand that a certain argument used against NS is completely blown out of the water period.

As we all know, Naruto is very outspoken about what certain people mean to him. He considers everyone his family so to speak, but he's never very specific unless he really means it and it relates to something that really reminds him of something else.

Take Sasuke for example. Naruto has said on multiple occasions that Sasuke is like a brother to him. No evidence needs to be presented.

Then while he never exclusively said it, I do believe Naruto thought of Jiraiya as his dad or grandfather.

Evidence we all know about --Click here to view--

Naruto did treat Sasuke and Jiraiya as he thought of them. Brothers often butt heads, and Naruto looked up to Jiraiya just like one would to a parent and even went angst mode when he died. *so did I *

But.... Naruto isn't like that with Sakura. Sure, maybe their relationship could be interpreted as something a brother and sister would do, but still. You don't jokingly ask your sister out on dates all the time. You don't blush when she does something that is considered romantic. You don't confess to a friend that you can't confess to her because you didn't keep a promise to her.

It's not a brother/sister relationship. Period. Naruto would have made that obvious by now if he really thought that way.

I was actually going to make a comment about this, how I realized that the whole brother-sister argument doesn't work, but you beat me to it. Lately I have tried to think through of how Naruhina fans see things, like how they don't see Naruto and Sakura's relationship as anything more than a brother-sister relationship. But that never made sense to me, because of the reasons you clearly pointed out.

[4000TMNT]

Do you think Kishi is going to kill NaruHina way before NaruSaku is canon or is he going to kill NaruHina and make NaruSaku canon in the same chapter.

[Branden]

also, has anyone seen the post credits scene from episode 129?

it seemed like once again more narusaku fanservice, but I can't help but feel they are going a bit overboard. I usually don't watch the outro scenes but when rewatching this episode I decided to watch it and noticed this. I know Kishi doesn't get involved with the anime but why would he let such obvious couple scenes like this in if NS wasn't endgame?

I got this exact same feeling watching that confession in episode 235. Is this normal for animes to just completely troll pairings? I have seen a lot of cute pairing fanservice but this is just a bit overboard in my opinion.


and on a partiality related note : who deserves Naruto more? Hinata or Sakura?
another question : am I the only one who thought that the Sakura's confession was brilliantly designed, executed, and written? I feel like it must have taken a mastermind to set that scene up.



@4000tmnt
I think it will be in the same chapter, as it will most likely be like right before the ending of the series.

Edited by Branden, 02 July 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Transformers03]

also, has anyone seen the post credits scene from episode 129?

it seemed like once again more narusaku fanservice, but I can't help but feel they are going a bit overboard. I usually don't watch the outro scenes but when rewatching this episode I decided to watch it and noticed this. I know Kishi doesn't get involved with the anime but why would he let such obvious couple scenes like this in if NS wasn't endgame?

I got this exact same feeling watching that confession in episode 235. Is this normal for animes to just completely troll pairings? I have seen a lot of cute pairing fanservice but this is just a bit overboard in my opinion.


and on a partiality related note : who deserves Naruto more? Hinata or Sakura?
another question : am I the only one who thought that the Sakura's confession was brilliantly designed, executed, and written? I feel like it must have taken a mastermind to set that scene up.



@4000tmnt
I think it will be in the same chapter, as it will most likely be like right before the ending of the series.

Yeah, I think it SHOULD be obvious that Narusaku is the end game, but we have all these Naruhina fans who keep claiming that they are forth sure that Naruhina is happening, which makes me doubt my judgment, and makes me rethink the whole situation. But it always lead met to thinking Narusaku WILL happen, and if it doesn't happen, if I'm wrong, then I have a pretty terrible perspective on how to see anime pairings.

Oh, and I also thought that the confession was brilliant. It's my third favorite moment in the entire series.

[KnS]

who deserves Naruto more? Hinata or Sakura?

There's no such thing as "deserving" someone. A person can be deserving of happiness, but true love is by definition a mutual realization and relationship, and cannot be forced on or expected of one party simply because the other party is viewed as "deserving." This is, in my opinion, the mistake Hinata fans make; their ship sails on the Vast Sea of Hinata's Infinite Worthiness, but it's ultimately irrelevant.

Naruto is not a prize to be won. He's a young man with a heart and deep feelings of his own. What matters is who he loves, and whether or not that person returns his love. Naruto's love for Sakura is and has always been unconditional, and so far in the series his love for her is absolute and beyond debate.

So as things currently stand in the story, the options are: (a) Naruto's heart suddenly changes so he can meet Hinata half way, get to know her, and then see if he can return her feelings, or (b) Naruto's heart remains steadfast so Sakura can meet him half way, fully realize the depth of the feelings she already has for him, and return his feelings.

Logic and experience dictates Option B.

another question : am I the only one who thought that the Sakura's confession was brilliantly designed, executed, and written? I feel like it must have taken a mastermind to set that scene up.

Everything I have to say about the vexing complexity of Sakura's confession can be found in this post. I don't want to type it all out again, lol.

[Branden]

There's no such thing as "deserving" someone. A person can be deserving of happiness, but true love is by definition a mutual realization and relationship, and cannot be forced on or expected of one party simply because the other party is viewed as "deserving." This is, in my opinion, the mistake Hinata fans make; their ship sails on the Vast Sea of Hinata's Infinite Worthiness, but it's ultimately irrelevant.

Naruto is not a prize to be won. He's a young man with a heart and deep feelings of his own. What matters is who he loves, and whether or not that person returns his love. Naruto's love for Sakura is and has always been unconditional, and so far in the series his love for her is absolute and beyond debate.

So as things currently stand in the story, the options are: (a) Naruto's heart suddenly changes so he can meet Hinata half way, get to know her, and then see if he can return her feelings, or (b) Naruto's heart remains steadfast so Sakura can meet him half way, fully realize the depth of the feelings she already has for him, and return his feelings.

Logic and experience dictates Option B.


Everything I have to say about the vexing complexity of Sakura's confession can be found in this post. I don't want to type it all out again, lol.

I constantly hear naruhina fans say hinata deserves naruto more then sakura. it gets quite old after a while

[TouKen4Life3g]

Funny, I was watching the confession in many forms (game/manga/anime). Game is shortened, but hey it's a game. Anyway, about the confession, I got to say, it is a well done writing. The realistic atmosphere of two people is surreal and Kishi did it great. It's also to note that this is one of big point of a relationship: hard to agree to disagree. They both have a realistic argument and it's hard to say who come up at top. Both of them wants to keep each other happy as well as themselves such as saving Naruto from danger, keeping Sakura happy, etc. It was so well done that it lasted a chapter and a half. That point told me that Kishi is serious about developing relationship between them. He knows that a couple is never perfect and they have to step up by going through tough argument.

I give credit where credit are due, but anime did a great job on portraying the atmosphere. Sakura tried so hard to keep Naruto safe and love how they both got heated up. Naruto is always putting his life in danger (heck, even now), but he is not stopping. Sakura does have a point: Naruto should worry about his safety because it's harming her, hence her breakdown after hearing from Sai. I'm happy that Naruto is still in good terms with Sakura after the whole argument as well as her; however, there will be another talk that can change the course of their relationship. You got to remember, they already hit the breaking point of friendship, now it's time to get serious. It's only matter of time.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

You know, I've just had an epiphany that others probably had long ago, but I'm really just now thinking about it and understand that a certain argument used against NS is completely blown out of the water period.

As we all know, Naruto is very outspoken about what certain people mean to him. He considers everyone his family so to speak, but he's never very specific unless he really means it and it relates to something that really reminds him of something else.

Take Sasuke for example. Naruto has said on multiple occasions that Sasuke is like a brother to him. No evidence needs to be presented.

Then while he never exclusively said it, I do believe Naruto thought of Jiraiya as his dad or grandfather.

Evidence we all know about --Click here to view--

Naruto did treat Sasuke and Jiraiya as he thought of them. Brothers often butt heads, and Naruto looked up to Jiraiya just like one would to a parent and even went angst mode when he died. *so did I *

But.... Naruto isn't like that with Sakura. Sure, maybe their relationship could be interpreted as something a brother and sister would do, but still. You don't jokingly ask your sister out on dates all the time. You don't blush when she does something that is considered romantic. You don't confess to a friend that you can't confess to her because you didn't keep a promise to her.

It's not a brother/sister relationship. Period. Naruto would have made that obvious by now if he really thought that way.

However, NH and SS shippers do not follow this logic, proclaiming that Hinata is the center of Naruto's world when they have it all backwards *eye rolling*.

[Branden]

Funny, I was watching the confession in many forms (game/manga/anime). Game is shortened, but hey it's a game. Anyway, about the confession, I got to say, it is a well done writing. The realistic atmosphere of two people is surreal and Kishi did it great. It's also to note that this is one of big point of a relationship: hard to agree to disagree. They both have a realistic argument and it's hard to say who come up at top. Both of them wants to keep each other happy as well as themselves such as saving Naruto from danger, keeping Sakura happy, etc. It was so well done that it lasted a chapter and a half. That point told me that Kishi is serious about developing relationship between them. He knows that a couple is never perfect and they have to step up by going through tough argument.

I give credit where credit are due, but anime did a great job on portraying the atmosphere. Sakura tried so hard to keep Naruto safe and love how they both got heated up. Naruto is always putting his life in danger (heck, even now), but he is not stopping. Sakura does have a point: Naruto should worry about his safety because it's harming her, hence her breakdown after hearing from Sai. I'm happy that Naruto is still in good terms with Sakura after the whole argument as well as her; however, there will be another talk that can change the course of their relationship. You got to remember, they already hit the breaking point of friendship, now it's time to get serious. It's only matter of time.

i can only hope he will create something as brilliant as 469

[TouKen4Life3g]

i can only hope he will create something as brilliant as 469

So do I. When it comes to writing a drama piece, he does a really good job. One of the reasons why I enjoyed this manga a lot. I like the action and all, but the interaction is what gets me intrigued.

[redragon88]

When it comes to Sakura's confession, I think she believed with all her heart that she was telling the truth, hence why Kishimoto said in his interview that he portrayed her as an honest girl with a stubborn impression. But no matter what she wanted to believe, it doesn't change the fact the she still likes Sasuke, whether she wants to or not.

What I take away from this is that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are so attached to her that they act as some psychological parasite. I think she's aware that if Sasuke was non existent (not that he died, but that he never existed in the first place) that she would have given her heart to Naruto a long time ago. I think she went determined to confess because she was confident that she could combat those feelings and make them go away, therefore, being able to open her heart completely to Naruto. But as proven during her confrontation with Sasuke, it's not as easy as she thought.

Sakura accepts that she has feelings for Sasuke, but that doesn't mean she wants them or that she has to be happy about them (as proven with chapter 540). It's just like with people who are stricken with diseases, they can accept their condition but aren't gonna be glad they have it. Sakura wants her feelings to change but forcing them is not gonna yield any results.

So who knows, maybe Sakura could address that issue with Naruto. She could go on and thank him for not giving up on such a foolish girl like her that comes with those messy feelings. Maybe she could tell him to keep trying until she can finally have a natural change of heart. She could tell him that nothing would make her happier than to finally develop full feelings of love for him, instead of those halfway feelings she has because of Sasuke's influence on her.

Remember that she considers Naruto a fool because he fell in love with her, the girl with complicated feelings. I think Sakura believes that Naruto deserves a better girl than her, a girl who doesn't come with baggage and is completely dedicated to him. That is the reason why she started to make herself forget about Sasuke on her way to confess, therefore, forcing herself to become the girl she thought Naruto deserved. But she failed to understand that forcing change would yield no results and that what Naruto wants more than anything when it comes to Sakura is to make her naturally change her mind with his own power.

I know episode 235 is filler but remember what Naruto said, he would never dare to force her to love him because he knew it wouldn't be real. When Sakura confessed to him he knew she was forcing herself to change, that's why he stopped her mid-speech and told her she was lying to herself. He knew her feelings weren't ready for that change and also there was the dead giveaway of not caring for Sasuke. Naruto would never want Sakura to stop caring for Sasuke, but caring and loving are two different things and Naruto only wants her feelings of love to change, nothing else.

Edited by redragon88, 02 July 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[sushi.]

I have to admit that was the best damn rant I have ever read. Even better than Slextrem's and Paptala's no offense to the two lol.

Uhm, those are mine.

Thank you.

[Branden]

When it comes to Sakura's confession, I think she believed with all her heart that she was telling the truth, hence why Kishimoto said in his interview that he portrayed her as an honest girl with a stubborn impression. But no matter what she wanted to believe, it doesn't change the fact the she still likes Sasuke, whether she wants to or not.

What I take away from this is that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are so attached to her that they act as some psychological parasite. I think she's aware that if Sasuke was non existent (not that he died, but that he never existed in the first place) that she would have given her heart to Naruto a long time ago. I think she went determined to confess because she was confident that she could combat those feelings and make them go away, therefore, being able to open her heart completely to Naruto. But as proven during her confrontation with Sasuke, it's not as easy as she thought.

Sakura accepts that she has feelings for Sasuke, but that doesn't mean she wants them or that she has to be happy about them (as proven with chapter 540). It's just like with people who are stricken with diseases, they can accept their condition but aren't gonna be glad they have it. Sakura wants her feelings to change but forcing them is not gonna yield any results.

So who knows, maybe Sakura could address that issue with Naruto. She could go on and thank him for not giving up on such a foolish girl like her that comes with those messy feelings. Maybe she could tell him to keep trying until she can finally have a natural change of heart. She could tell him that nothing would make her happier than to finally develop full feelings of love for him, instead of those halfway feelings she has because of Sasuke's influence on her.

Remember that she considers Naruto a fool because he fell in love with her, the girl with complicated feelings. I think Sakura believes that Naruto deserves a better girl than her, a girl who doesn't come with baggage and is completely dedicated to him. That is the reason why she started to make herself forget about Sasuke on her way to confess, therefore, forcing herself to become the girl she thought Naruto deserved. But she failed to understand that forcing change would yield no results and that what Naruto wants more than anything when it comes to Sakura is to make her naturally change her mind with his own power.

I know episode 235 is filler but remember what Naruto said, he would never dare to force her to love him because he knew it wouldn't be real. When Sakura confessed to him he knew she was forcing herself to change, that's why he stopped her mid-speech and told her she was lying to herself. He knew her feelings weren't ready for that change and also there was the dead giveaway of not caring for Sasuke. Naruto would never want Sakura to stop caring for Sasuke, but caring and loving are two different things and Naruto only wants her feelings of love to change, nothing else.

that's an interesting perspective, but I think it's more likely that Naruto himself didn't believe it.

[KnS]

When it comes to Sakura's confession, I think she believed with all her heart that she was telling the truth, hence why Kishimoto said in his interview that he portrayed her as an honest girl with a stubborn impression. But no matter what she wanted to believe, it doesn't change the fact the she still likes Sasuke, whether she wants to or not.

What I take away from this is that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are so attached to her that they act as some psychological parasite. I think she's aware that if Sasuke was non existent (not that he died, but that he never existed in the first place) that she would have given her heart to Naruto a long time ago. I think she went determined to confess because she was confident that she could combat those feelings and make them go away, therefore, being able to open her heart completely to Naruto. But as proven during her confrontation with Sasuke, it's not as easy as she thought.

Sakura accepts that she has feelings for Sasuke, but that doesn't mean she wants them or that she has to be happy about them (as proven with chapter 540). It's just like with people who are stricken with diseases, they can accept their condition but aren't gonna be glad they have it. Sakura wants her feelings to change but forcing them is not gonna yield any results.

So who knows, maybe Sakura could address that issue with Naruto. She could go on and thank him for not giving up on such a foolish girl like her that comes with those messy feelings. Maybe she could tell him to keep trying until she can finally have a natural change of heart. She could tell him that nothing would make her happier than to finally develop full feelings of love for him, instead of those halfway feelings she has because of Sasuke's influence on her.

Remember that she considers Naruto a fool because he fell in love with her, the girl with complicated feelings. I think Sakura believes that Naruto deserves a better girl than her, a girl who doesn't come with baggage and is completely dedicated to him. That is the reason why she started to make herself forget about Sasuke on her way to confess, therefore, forcing herself to become the girl she thought Naruto deserved. But she failed to understand that forcing change would yield no results and that what Naruto wants more than anything when it comes to Sakura is to make her naturally change her mind with his own power.

I know episode 235 is filler but remember what Naruto said, he would never dare to force her to love him because he knew it wouldn't be real. When Sakura confessed to him he knew she was forcing herself to change, that's why he stopped her mid-speech and told her she was lying to herself. He knew her feelings weren't ready for that change and also there was the dead giveaway of not caring for Sasuke. Naruto would never want Sakura to stop caring for Sasuke, but caring and loving are two different things and Naruto only wants her feelings of love to change, nothing else.

Nicely done, redragon88. I personally think that most of what you've written here is as close to how things actually are as we can determine right now. The bolded part is, I think, the distilled essence of Naruto's reaction to Sakura's confession. He never denied how he feels about her, and obviously wanted to believe her, but he knew she wasn't fully ready to be his, so to speak.

However, I don't believe Sakura's "natural change of heart" will require a negotiation-style conversation. I think she'll have an epiphany -- a moment when the depth of her love for Naruto, all their history, what he means to her -- everything between them -- will converge, and whatever confused romantic feelings for Sasuke that might have had been lingering in her heart will disappear.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Paptala]

Nicely done, redragon88. I personally think that most of what you've written here is as close to how things actually are as we can determine right now. The bolded part is, I think, the distilled essence of Naruto's reaction to Sakura's confession. He never denied how he feels about her, and obviously wanted to believe her, but he knew she wasn't fully ready to be his, so to speak.

However, I don't believe Sakura's "natural change of heart" will require a negotiation-style conversation. I think she'll have an epiphany -- a moment when the depth of her love for Naruto, all their history, what he means to her -- everything between them -- will converge, and whatever confused romantic feelings for Sasuke that might have had been lingering in her heart will disappear.

Just my opinion, of course.

YES. I truly think that everything we've been shown thus far regarding Sakura's feelings for Naruto will lead to a romantic epiphany.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Yes, and the more re talk about this, Sakura is getting closer to Naruto. I have a feeling that this next NS interaction will be the biggest (bigger than the confession) development between the two of them. And probably the last time we will see the Heaven (Sakura) and Earth (Naruto) Tag-team in action. I hope Kishi can slip in a power up for Sakura, so she can fight Tobi along side of Naruto, nothing romantic. The problem is that Hinata is also on her way towards Naruto, obsessed with holding Naruto's hand. I just wonder how Sakura is going to react.

[Branden]

Sakura getting a powerup would be great. I am tired of seeing her play a passive role, the entire ninja world is at stake here! She needs to kick some ass! She's a main character so she's invincible!

[Dalton.T.R]

Yes, and the more re talk about this, Sakura is getting closer to Naruto. I have a feeling that this next NS interaction will be the biggest (bigger than the confession) development between the two of them. And probably the last time we will see the Heaven (Sakura) and Earth (Naruto) Tag-team in action. I hope Kishi can slip in a power up for Sakura, so she can fight Tobi along side of Naruto, nothing romantic. The problem is that Hinata is also on her way towards Naruto, obsessed with holding Naruto's hand. I just wonder how Sakura is going to react.

SAKURA...PAUNCH!!!



That's basiclly what I have in mind lol.

Edited by Dalton (I stink at names), 03 July 2012 - 12:03 AM.

[Branden]

SAKURA...PAUNCH!!!



That's basiclly what I have in mind lol.

too many smileys, cant tell who is who in that scene...

[KnS]

The problem is that Hinata is also on her way towards Naruto, obsessed with holding Naruto's hand. I just wonder how Sakura is going to react.

Honestly, my greatest wish would be for Hinata to be totally irrelevant. I realize it's a popular contrivance -- for a girl (in this case Sakura) to finally realize the value of the "nice guy" when a threat exists that he might slip away -- but I want more than that for Naruto.

I want to see Sakura's epiphany -- the one I mentioned above -- be independent of external influences. I want her to look at Naruto and realize on her own, "Holy %$#!!!! I REALLY LOVE HIM!" I want it to be all about them and only them.

I would much prefer to see Hinata reacting to the inescapable truth of NS than see Sakura react to some manufactured angst over a girl that, as things stand, has zero chance landing Naruto.

Just my opinion, of course.