54216 replies to this topic

[narusaku256]

I have to say something. And that is, there's an incoming NS moment. And it will either be a huge one or of a moderate magnitude. And it will either be in the next chapter or the next to next one. Most probably it is next chapter, meaning the next week's chapter.

Edited by narusaku256, 22 May 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, we don't know yet. I do think the reaction from Naruto might be next because he wanted to help, but got stopped. While it's understandable, it still didn't make him any less upset. So we'll see where we go from here.

[narusaku256]

Well, we don't know yet. I do think the reaction from Naruto might be next because he wanted to help, but got stopped. While it's understandable, it still didn't make him any less upset. So we'll see where we go from here.

Nope, that's not it. I am talking about an NS moment, if you read it carefully. If it things really are the way I think, there is probably an NS moment in the next chapter or next to next one. I can't exactly tell its magnitude, but it can either be a huge one or a moderate one. I go more with the moderate one.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Nope, that's not it. I am talking about an NS moment, if you read it carefully. If it things really are the way I think, there is probably an NS moment in the next chapter or next to next one. I can't exactly tell its magnitude, but it can either be a huge one or a moderate one. I go more with the moderate one.

I get what you saying, but I'm just saying that we don't know that yet. For all we know, you can have Madara break the susanoo and all of them will get caught. Then, it's Edo for the next couple of chapters. Just throwing a possible swerve.

[narusaku256]

I get what you saying, but I'm just saying that we don't know that yet. For all we know, you can have Madara break the susanoo and all of them will get caught. Then, it's Edo for the next couple of chapters. Just throwing a possible swerve.

Oh! I see what you mean. But it would actually make no sense for Kishi to protect all the team 7 members only to be put into IT a chapter later, right?

[redragon88]

I disagree with the implication that there was more NH/SS in Part 1 than NS.

 

Besides, it's not about the quantity of the panels, it's about it's quality. NS has always been the only relationship that keeps growing into something stronger and closer, that has been clear even back in Part 1.

 

Moments like:

- Naruto complimenting Sakura's forehead as per her fantasies

- Naruto realizing why he loves Sakura

- Sakura claiming she hates Naruto, but then.......

- Sakura blushing while thinking "What's this feelings? This is Naruto."

- Wanting to cheer Naruto up when she thought he was nervous about the chunin exams

- Sakura almost giving up said chunin exams for the sake of Naruto (which the Kizuna books claim is an act of love)

- Standing up to Sasuke by saying Naruto isn't a coward

- Her happiness to see Naruto win matches

- Naruto's insane determination to protect Sakura from Gaara

- Sakura's tender smile when she hears how Naruto protected her

- Naruto's pain at seeing Sakura hug Sasuke in the hospital

- The promise of a lifetime

- Sakura's resolution to be there for Naruto from now on

- Both Konohamaru and Gamakichi teasing about Sakura being Naruto's girlfriend.

 

All those little moments, slowly but surely, have build up to them developing a very strong bond. And the arrival of Part 2 only keeps intensifying it.

 

The way NH/SS is developed is nowhere near the careful way Kishi has worked towards NS, even way back in Part 1. Kishi works to make every bond have it's significance, but the way I see it, if you look carefully, the only bond he has worked towards gradually transforming into love has only been NS. From the very beginning.

[ramenanmitsu]

I have recently been watching the anime again, from the beginning, and I've thought the exact same thing: It's surprising how much NH and SS there really is, if you are looking for it. In fact, I've thought to myself that I can see how people who ship NH and SS can really connect the dots in support of their pairing back to the very beginning. 
 
And I agree, I think Part 2 pushed more the story in more of a pairing direction and more specifically a mutual NaruSaku pairing. But Part 1 is really heavy on the SS and the one-sided crushes of NH (Hinata to Naruto) and NS (Naruto to Sakura). It absolutely feels like the end story is going to be SS and NH, even though that Naruto is running doing around to fulfill his POL to Sakura.
 
I agree too, that if Naruto hadn't saved Sakura from Gaara and if there hadn't been a few tender expressions around the POL between Naruto and Sakura, then I would not even be inclined to put much stock in the NS ship existing outside of Naruto's childish crush. Sakura's behavior toward him is kind and friendly, but not indicative of love. Yet! 
 
And yes, just like you I've noticed that things change dramatically in Part 2. It really grows into a mutual affection on Sakura's part, and becomes more mature on Naruto's. Hinata doesn't reenter the picture until the Pain arc. 
 
I've always thought there were the beginnings of the NS relationship in Part 1 (the test scene, fighting Gaara, the POL), but now seeing it again, I think that Part 1 is alot more vague and open-ended than I remember. 
 
Now, the so-called NH and SS moments in the manga are outright and heavy and nearly irrefutable. They inspire loads and loads of debate pages. But I don't see them as any threat to the NS ending. However going back to Part 1, the NS/SS/NH scenes that could be taken as a shipping moment seem to get equal attention/emphasis, and the ending pairing seems much more of anybody's game. 
 
Anyway, one thing I've taken away from rewatching it is that I can understand where and why NH and SS shippers start out liking their pairing. Then all the little moments in future chapters/episodes just builds on that. 
 
I think Kishimoto has gone to great lengths to show that NaruSaku is going to be the end pairing, and to gently aim NH/SS shippers in that direction so it won't be a totally pull-the-rug-out-from-underneath-them shock. But Kishi is still keeping the suspense going by hinting that NH/SS could still happen, with Sakura's forlorn looks and Hinata's "Naruto-kun." To a NS shipper, those little hints amount to nothing. But to an NH/SS shipper, it's another in a long line of evidence that the relationships so heavily hinted at in Part 1 might still actually happen.
 
(And it's not mean or cruel on Kishimoto's part, it's just the business of creating a manga and doing everything he can to keep up the interest from all parts of his audience.)

I actually agree with you. In part one, I didn't care about pairings and watched Naruto just to see my favorite character Sasuke. My sister watched solely for her favorite character Kakashi. During that time, my sister used to say that SS is definitely going to become canon (even though she didn't care about pairings) and I didn't put much thought into it but I used to agree with her. The way how Sasuke is usually cold to everyone but cheers her up(Chuunin exams), protect her, and consider her as one of his precious people has a strong foundation to develop into something romantic. Hence I thought that SS will happen regardless of how uninterested I was in that pairing. And regards to NH, I never felt anything really. Maybe because I always thought Hinata's crush or love towards Naruto was comedic opposed to Sakura's more heavy and serious nature, and Naruto was too focused on Sakura it was hard to see him going out with someone else. Or maybe because I didn't care about these two characters in part one.

It was after reading part two and Yamato's comment that I realized NaruSaku was the direction Kishi is going. Now reading the whole story and re-reading back from part one, I can see the whole picture and say that NS was the pairing Kishi intended all along. (The hints of a Sakura being like his wife confirms this for me too) But, if you've only read part one, it's really hard to see that NS was the direction Kishi was heading towards. And I can understand why SS is having a hard time to believe what is happening right now. SS had lots of positive interactions in part one, but all those developments are now forced to nothing.

The way NH/SS is developed is nowhere near the careful way Kishi has worked towards NS, even way back in Part 1. Kishi works to make every bond have it's significance, but the way I see it, if you look carefully, the only bond he has worked towards gradually transforming into love has only been NS. From the very beginning.

Wonderfully said! It's after reading part two, I was able to realize this.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 22 May 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I disagree with the implication that there was more NH/SS in Part 1 than NS.
 
Besides, it's not about the quantity of the panels, it's about it's quality. NS has always been the only relationship that keeps growing into something stronger and closer, that has been clear even back in Part 1.
 
Moments like:
- Naruto complimenting Sakura's forehead as per her fantasies
- Naruto realizing why he loves Sakura
- Sakura claiming she hates Naruto, but then.......
- Sakura blushing while thinking "What's this feelings? This is Naruto."
- Wanting to cheer Naruto up when she thought he was nervous about the chunin exams
- Sakura almost giving up said chunin exams for the sake of Naruto (which the Kizuna books claim is an act of love)
- Standing up to Sasuke by saying Naruto isn't a coward
- Her happiness to see Naruto win matches
- Naruto's insane determination to protect Sakura from Gaara
- Sakura's tender smile when she hears how Naruto protected her
- Naruto's pain at seeing Sakura hug Sasuke in the hospital
- The promise of a lifetime
- Sakura's resolution to be there for Naruto from now on
- Both Konohamaru and Gamakichi teasing about Sakura being Naruto's girlfriend.
 
All those little moments, slowly but surely, have build up to them developing a very strong bond. And the arrival of Part 2 only keeps intensifying it.
 
The way NH/SS is developed is nowhere near the careful way Kishi has worked towards NS, even way back in Part 1. Kishi works to make every bond have it's significance, but the way I see it, if you look carefully, the only bond he has worked towards gradually transforming into love has only been NS. From the very beginning.

Agreed.

[咲耶姫]

I actually agree with you. In part one, I didn't care about pairings and watched Naruto just to see my favorite character Sasuke. My sister watched solely for her favorite character Kakashi. During that time, my sister used to say that SS is definitely going to become canon (even though she didn't care about pairings) and I didn't put much thought into it but I used to agree with her. The way how Sasuke is usually cold to everyone but cheers her up(Chuunin exams), protect her, and consider her as one of his precious people has a strong foundation to develop into something romantic. Hence I thought that SS will happen regardless of how uninterested I was in that pairing. And regards to NH, I never felt anything really. Maybe because I always thought Hinata's crush or love towards Naruto was comedic opposed to Sakura's more heavy and serious nature, and Naruto was too focused on Sakura it was hard to see him going out with someone else. Or maybe because I didn't care about these two characters in part one.

It was after reading part two and Yamato's comment that I realized NaruSaku was the direction Kishi is going. Now reading the whole story and re-reading back from part one, I can see the whole picture and say that NS was the pairing Kishi intended all along. (The hints of a Sakura being like his wife confirms this for me too) But, if you've only read part one, it's really hard to see that NS was the direction Kishi was heading towards. And I can understand why SS is having a hard time to believe what is happening right now. SS had lots of positive interactions in part one, but all those developments are now forced to nothing.

Yes it's like I said in my previous post: 

 

Sasuke, before Orochimaru's curse could have reciprocate her feelings, he cared about her, always saving her and even being on the verge to confess his personnal story with Itachi. Naruto too, could have reciprocate Hinata's feelings, basing their relationship on a mutual admiration and friendship (if SS had to happen of course, because I agree that even in Part 1, it was pure friendship on Naruto's part). 

...

But still, in Part 2 we barely see Hinata until the current Arc and Sasuke doesn't care anymore for Sakura, not one thought about her from him, several murder attempts etc...

While on NS side, Sakura is explicitly starting to reciprocate Naruto's feelings, and this time it's somewhat stated by some characters and not on fan's opinion anymore. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Here's one thing: Kishi should have STOPPED developing NaruSaku. I have seen other series that just stop at a point, so it's understanable that it's only good friends. If they're already close, why continue. I know part 1 in back of my head, at least the main scenes, and I just don't agree. Yes, Kishi did have a shot, but if you miss it, well it's probably never meant to be.

[redragon88]

Sasuke having moments of openness with Sakura in Part 1 doesn't really strike me as an indication of him possibly developing romantic feelings.

 

When you compare the way Sakura came to care for Naruto in Part 1 to the way Sasuke came to care for Sakura in Part 1 you can see the difference very clearly. Sasuke developed a friendly acceptance of Sakura, but Sakura developed a tender feeling for Naruto.

 

I didn't care for pairing back when I saw Part 1, but even then to me it was very clear as day that if there was going to be a resolution of feelings it would be of Sakura coming to love Naruto.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Sasuke having moments of openness with Sakura in Part 1 doesn't really strike me as an indication of him possibly developing romantic feelings.
 
When you compare the way Sakura came to care for Naruto in Part 1 to the way Sasuke came to care for Sakura in Part 1 you can see the difference very clearly. Sasuke developed a friendly acceptance of Sakura, but Sakura developed a tender feeling for Naruto.
 
I didn't care for pairing back when I saw Part 1, but even then to me it was very clear as day that if there was going to be a resolution of feelings it would be of Sakura coming to love Naruto.

Keeps on taking my likes.

[tricksie]

Thank you I'm glad someone share my thought about Part 1. People who say there is nothing NH/SS in Part 1 should reread it, because there are more NH/SS moment than NS until Part 2. Sasuke, before Orochimaru's curse could have reciprocate her feelings, he cared about her, always saving her and even being on the verge to confess his personnal story with Itachi. Naruto too, could have reciprocate Hinata's feelings, basing their relationship on a mutual admiration and friendship.

 

Yes, it was actually surprising. There were many opportunities where the story could have taken a different direction and Naruto and Sasuke's interactions would have supported that. Naruto and Sasuke both were changed by Hinata and Sakura, respectively, and there is quite an emphasis on these "friendships" as having more than just a passing meaning in their lives.  

 

 

But still, in Part 2 we barely see Hinata until the current Arc and Sasuke doesn't care anymore for Sakura, not one thought about her from him, several murder attempts etc...

While on NS side, Sakura is explicitly starting to reciprocate Naruto's feelings, and this time it's somewhat stated by some characters and not on fan's opinion anymore. 

 

Yes, in Part 2, things radically change. Naruto's feelings mature and Sakura's feelings become mutual. From that point the story takes the path of NS, while the NH and SS (even though there continues to be definite shipping moments) becomes less and less reinforced. You're right, it no longer lies in the real of a fan's imagination. NS, the seeds of which were planted in Part 1 along with NH and SS, continues to grow. In Part 2, Hinata and Sasuke are literally no longer part of the story. They're simply not there, except for Hinata's appearance at the end of the Pain arc.

 

 

So, I really think Kishimoto was telling the truth when he said at the end of Part 1 that he didn"t really thought about pairing and that he focused on it on Part 2. 

But like I said, it's his obsession with developping character's bond that create all this mess. He makes all the bond to ambiguous even on boys and boys side, like Naruto/Sasuke, Naruto/Gaara.

 

I always wonder about that one and Kishimoto's statement that he's terrible at writing romance. I think he's not 100% honest, or maybe not 100% clear. My guess is that he knew what his end pairing was going to be, but he decided not to focus on it in Part 1. That way he could throw in all these other pairing hints and just worry about straightening it out after the time skip.

 

He definitely laid the groundwork for NS, and he definitely made it clear the Naruto adored Sakura, and that Sakura was beginning to respect and value Naruto in return. But the other ships were equally represented. It's not a figment of the fan's imagination or a product of the reader being in extreme denial. Kishimoto himself put it in there.

 

And recognizing that element of the story, doesn't mean it automatically negates NS. Just means that the characters get to grow and develop and make choices to fall in love because they choose to, not because they are assigned to a particular character. Ultimately, it's the falling out of love or being spurned in love and having to try again that makes a more realistic story. Falling in love is the easy part. I don't think the process of that resolution will be shown with Hinata's or Sasuke's character (other than possible a single panel), but it's definitely there in Sakura's and Naruto's.

[TheFirstEvil100]

@ Pepsi, not sure, but didn't Sasuke say something about waiting for the tree? Kishi has to find some way for them to fight, I just don't know exactly what way it is.

 

EDIT; Just posted this long rant on fornever's Sakura dislike video about her good deeds and change. Now, I'm wondering which comment I'll get first.

 

" Sakura sucks."

 

Or

 

" Nobody cares."

 

Yeah, on that page I have little faith for someone to actually take my post seriously,

lol oh I know they will they need to keep Hinata their queen safe.

 

I don't let her fanbase affect my feelings for her.   I truly like Hinata, I'm just disappointed that she never received the proper development that her character needed. It's how I feel about Orihime from Bleach.  I love the character, but not when it involves them with the main male character whom they have no chemistry with nor an existing mutual attraction.  And I hate how her fanbase goes on about how "useless" Sakura is while ignoring the fact that Hinata's success/loss ratio isn't any better.  In fact, I take that back, Sakura's defeated Sasori and as a top medic nin, has saved many people on the battlefield on-panel with her healing abilities and rescued Naruto from the brink of death.

 

If we want to argue on the basis of contribution in combat,  Sakura has Hinata beat there.

oh I know not all are bad as I said in the past, many are good NH fans its just so many others don't care really some of them even hate Naruto and they only want Hinata to be happy now what does that tell you?

 

Sawyer7mage "That transition is intentional by Kishimoto. It's there to make you think, OH Naruto care for Hinata!"

 

The Naruhina tards need to calm down lol.

lol well that's how many of the NH fans are but just think of it like this. When NS becomes canon just got to all the NH vids and watch and smile as they all moan how it not far.

[Gojira]

I love the way NS is done in Part 2....though the vents of LOI nearly killed it for me. It just gave the impression that NS would forever be stuck with SS holding it down if Sakura had not personally seen how twistsed Sasuke has become. Didn't Kishi say that he basically just made Sasuke evil as a spur of the moment kind of thing?

I liked the development better before LOI because it actually seemed like they were soulmates growing closer together and not just "well I like you, and you like me but you still have feelings for Sasuke so this can't work out until that's resolved" kind of thing. Which again adds to the convenience that Sasuke left the village and turned evil because had he not I'm not sure years of rejection would really make Sakura fall out of love with him.

Edited by Pepsi, 22 May 2014 - 06:25 PM.

[Don-kun]

172

 

Thank you I'm glad someone share my thought about Part 1. People who say there is nothing NH/SS in Part 1 should reread it, because there are more NH/SS moment than NS until Part 2. Sasuke, before Orochimaru's curse could have reciprocate her feelings, he cared about her, always saving her and even being on the verge to confess his personnal story with Itachi. Naruto too, could have reciprocate Hinata's feelings, basing their relationship on a mutual admiration and friendship. 

...

But still, in Part 2 we barely see Hinata until the current Arc and Sasuke doesn't care anymore for Sakura, not one thought about her from him, several murder attempts etc...

While on NS side, Sakura is explicitly starting to reciprocate Naruto's feelings, and this time it's somewhat stated by some characters and not on fan's opinion anymore. 

 

So, I really think Kishimoto was telling the truth when he said at the end of Part 1 that he didn"t really thought about pairing and that he focused on it on Part 2. 

But like I said, it's his obsession with developping character's bond that create all this mess. He makes all the bond to ambiguous even on boys and boys side, like Naruto/Sasuke, Naruto/Gaara.

About part one well is hard to disagree with this since you're 100% right but at the same time the NS story was being develop in a deeper level, few examples are:

The bench scene, the part where Kakashi told Sakura that she spend her time worrying about Sasuke who is far from her but not notice Naruto who is close to her, the genins exams, Sakura asking herself about those feelings, her admiration after Naruto fight with Neji, Gara fight etc.

 

What NaruHina and SS vs NS in part one remind of the 2004 NBA final between L.A. Lakers and Detroit Pistons on paper Lakers was seems shore to become the champions since they were the popular team and the ones who got the most focus while ignoring that the Piston had a far more balanced and solid defensive team.

NS has being getting a very steady focus since the start of the story but every one ignored that aspect because the NH and SS combo pairing where more popular and more flashy at that time. 

 

 

 

 

Finally 2500 Post.

[TrueSacrifice]

I love the way NS is done in Part 2....though the vents of LOI nearly killed it for me. It just gave the impression that NS would forever be stuck with SS holding it down if Sakura had not personally seen how twistsed Sasuke has become. Didn't Kishi say that he basically just made Sasuke evil as a spur of the moment kind of thing?

I liked the development better before LOI because it actually seemed like they were soulmates growing closer together and not just "well I like you, and you like me but you still have feelings for Sasuke so this can't work out until that's resolved" kind of thing. Which again adds to the convenience that Sasuke left the village and turned evil because had he not I'm not sure years of rejection would really make Sakura fall out of love with him.

 

It's possible that Sakura would come to realize her original feelings for Sasuke were misguided anyway.

 

@redragon88

 

Could you possibly restate your theory on why Sakura fell in love with Sasuke in the first place? I loved your theory but forgot the exact detalis. Thanks!

[redragon88]

 

@redragon88

 

Could you possibly restate your theory on why Sakura fell in love with Sasuke in the first place? I loved your theory but forgot the exact detalis. Thanks!

 

Oh, I posted something like that? Sorry, even I don't remember it. I write many different things so it's hard to keep track of everything I say.

 

If I could give a short version of such a question I guess it would be that Sakura's romantic feelings for Sasuke have always been superficial (RTN even made fun of it). Sakura's desire to have Sasuke back comes from two things: wanting Team 7 to smile together again and Sakura's wish for Sasuke to acknowledge her.

 

I believe the last couple of chapters support such an idea with Kakashi stating that Sakura's feelings have changed and how Sakura is focused on Sasuke not caring about her.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I disagree with the implication that there was more NH/SS in Part 1 than NS.
 
Besides, it's not about the quantity of the panels, it's about it's quality. NS has always been the only relationship that keeps growing into something stronger and closer, that has been clear even back in Part 1.
 
Moments like:
- Naruto complimenting Sakura's forehead as per her fantasies
- Naruto realizing why he loves Sakura
- Sakura claiming she hates Naruto, but then.......
- Sakura blushing while thinking "What's this feelings? This is Naruto."
- Wanting to cheer Naruto up when she thought he was nervous about the chunin exams
- Sakura almost giving up said chunin exams for the sake of Naruto (which the Kizuna books claim is an act of love)
- Standing up to Sasuke by saying Naruto isn't a coward
- Her happiness to see Naruto win matches
- Naruto's insane determination to protect Sakura from Gaara
- Sakura's tender smile when she hears how Naruto protected her
- Naruto's pain at seeing Sakura hug Sasuke in the hospital
- The promise of a lifetime
- Sakura's resolution to be there for Naruto from now on
- Both Konohamaru and Gamakichi teasing about Sakura being Naruto's girlfriend.
 
All those little moments, slowly but surely, have build up to them developing a very strong bond. And the arrival of Part 2 only keeps intensifying it.
 
The way NH/SS is developed is nowhere near the careful way Kishi has worked towards NS, even way back in Part 1. Kishi works to make every bond have it's significance, but the way I see it, if you look carefully, the only bond he has worked towards gradually transforming into love has only been NS. From the very beginning.

Well to be honest i wasnt a NS shipper back then on part 1 but neither saw SS and NH on a good light, i enjoyed because it had a good story and charismatic characters but just ot point out.
 

- The promise of a lifetime

The POAL is negative, Sakura simply didnt deserved that because previously she was willing to go with Sasuke, as she admits it was selfish later on the kage five summit arc.

 

- Sakura's tender smile when she hears how Naruto protected her

Right after a negative moment where she compliments Sasuke for protecting her from Gaara and Sasuke saying it was Naruto despite previously she acknowledged Naruto's strenght it lead to nowhere.

Any kind of development regards Naruto seemed pointless to me because she only truly acknowledged Naruto on the ending of part 1 where she saw Naruto's determination to fullfill her selfish promise and how he was hurt.
She vowed to help Naruto on the next time and then she accepted Naruto and truly acknowledged his strenght.
Part 2 is that developed NS as a pairing right after the interview where Kishimoto decided to make a pairing canon, the way the story progressed on part 1 would certainly lead to an open ending.
And part 1 is the major source of Sakura's hate, because mostly when the teams were made the kunoichis complemented the skills of their comrades.
Ino was part of Ino-Shika-Chou, Hinata despite not being skilled she complemented with Kiba and Shino.
But Sakura didnt complemented the skills of Naruto and Sasuke.

Just my opinion btw.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 22 May 2014 - 10:14 PM.

[TrueSacrifice]

 

Oh, I posted something like that? Sorry, even I don't remember it. I write many different things so it's hard to keep track of everything I say.

 

If I could give a short version of such a question I guess it would be that Sakura's romantic feelings for Sasuke have always been superficial (RTN even made fun of it). Sakura's desire to have Sasuke back comes from two things: wanting Team 7 to smile together again and Sakura's wish for Sasuke to acknowledge her.

 

I believe the last couple of chapters support such an idea with Kakashi stating that Sakura's feelings have changed and how Sakura is focused on Sasuke not caring about her.

 

Lol that's okay. I've done the same.