54216 replies to this topic

[咲耶姫]

Allow me.

 

The thing is to overcome herself. She really hasn't done that. Confidence is the main issue on her character and yes, it has to do with Naruto, because he is her idol. Remember, the databook, after part 1, declared that it's admiration, arguably today as well. Now, whether you want to say it became love, well the point is that it erases the idea that part 1 she wanted love. What she want is acknowledgement that she has improved. The thing is what Naruto do, is something Hinata would like to see a hero would do. It's like "Look at him, saving that guy from the mistake. That's an idol and I'm proud of it." There's a reason why people has said that Hinata connects with everyone as friends (chapter 615), because this is her superhero, and the world has see him as a hero as well, an idol. Everyone is influenced by him, hence never give up. When you think about it, you too would be embarrassed to see your idol do something dumb because it's like "that's your hero..." Referring to the chuunin exam fight with Kiba with the fart and if you want to include the RtN prologue, same thing applies as to say, "My idol is a pervert thief...T_T"

I know all this, and I don't see what it has to do with my first point. You're talking about her admiration for him but it has nothing to do with her thinking "I would like to have a passion too." when she sees Shino and Kiba with the insects and Akamaru. This scene has nothing to do with her admiration for Naruto, she's admiring Shino and Kiba for having a passion in this cene she said it herself. "I admire them, they have a passion."

 

Last character to see him to go. The thing is Hinata didn't update that much because she has confidence issue, let alone can't go to see someone in the hospital. So she didn't have a good resolution. That is until the end to be motivated once more. Now, I will give you this. I too thought the same. But rereading it, it gave me an idea that NS has a chance, but I don't know if Naruto can keep up. Turns out much later of my growth, he never gives up. Ever. Also, Kishi has said that romance is something he wants to try in part 2. Again, part 2. That would mean part 1 isn't as serious as it is now. That means all can be regarded a good friendship bond from many characters, making it a usual Shounen ending with no love at the end. That has changed. For starter, Sakura is the first to meet Naruto in part 2. Took another while for Hinata to show up. Next, the whole flirt, which comes as a surprise. Then, well you know the rest. The game changer that seriously cannot be destroyed and quite honestly, something that really screwed all others horribly was the second arc of part 2, mainly Yamato's dialogue. It's the cliche work of disguise of what's already there being hidden.

You're right, and again I know all this. But still, when you look at Part 1 as a whole, if you omit some NS scenes, it looks like Kishi was going on a NH/SS road. And the fact that she was the last person who saw Naruto leaving while thinking "I won't give up Naruto" means something, it is significant. 

But still, it doesn't change the fact NS is on the road since the beginning of Part 2 like you said. 

 

It just proves that kishi sucks at romance, but not in the romance itself, because NS is well developped. Just that you can see romance in every bound in this manga, look at NaruSasu fanbase. If it was a yaoi manga, they would have the right to believe it will happen at the end. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that all bounds are developped a lot in naruto, but it's not easy to deal with so many one-sided love when you have to make one of them canon at the end. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I know all this, and I don't see what it has to do with my first point. You're talking about her admiration for him but it has nothing to do with her thinking "I would like to have a passion too." when she sees Shino and Kiba with the insects and Akamaru. This scene has nothing to do with her admiration for Naruto, she's admiring Shino and Kiba for having a passion in this cene she said it herself. "I admire them, they have a passion."

You're right, and again I know all this. But still, when you look at Part 1 as a whole, if you omit some NS scenes, it looks like Kishi was going on a NH/SS road. And the fact that she was the last person who saw Naruto leaving while thinking "I won't give up Naruto" means something, it is significant. 

But still, it doesn't change the fact NS is on the road since the beginning of Part 2 like you said. 

 

It just proves that kishi sucks at romance, but not in the romance itself, because NS is well developped. Just that you can see romance in every bound in this manga, look at NaruSasu fanbase. If it was a yaoi manga, they would have the right to believe it will happen at the end. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that all bounds are developped a lot in naruto, but it's not easy to deal with so many one-sided love when you have to make one of them canon at the end. 

Well, the passion is something she was lacking or needed one because what good is it if you got nothing to stand by for. It's not that she wants to be with Naruto or some sort. It's just that she lacks of it and she should start getting one.

 

Well, that's asking a lot to omit NS scenes because that's like ignoring the story in general. I know what you mean, but all must be included. "I won't give up, Naruto." Sounds like a person who idolized the guy to me. Trust me when I say this, I am not like sidelining at all. This is my personal opinion. Here's the thing with Kishi's writing. You can argue a bit that he uses the term that we usually see in a simple way, loosely. In other words, our reading comprehension will split from each other. When the series ends, only one is the route that Kishi truly wanted. In my opinion, I feel that the ones that are not ambiguous is the one we should take it and don't try to manipulate, and the rest should be taken as a friendly manners until proven otherwise. This is why I never have strong hate like some in here on Hinata. Heck, I don't see why praying Neji is a bad thing. It's like a religious thing. Like if my brother is in trouble, I would pray grandfather to help him. Actually, didn't FMA did the same. Winry was there, so why pray God. Anyway, opinion is opinion.

 

I like what you said there about romance. Now, I don't know what's his game on SS recent downfall, but if it has a morale that actually teach the value of life, then I can't say he suck at it because it was made to be bad for the moral purpose. As for NH, well, that could be our fault for taking it serious in the first place. But I would fault him to make things ambiguous, that's about it. So who knows in the meantime. For the record, the amount of info I write in here is how I do things. It's not that I think you're missing a clue or anything, it's just that I do thing to not only respond to you but for others to see, whether they need more info or not.

[咲耶姫]

Well, the passion is something she was lacking or needed one because what good is it if you got nothing to stand by for. It's not that she wants to be with Naruto or some sort. It's just that she lacks of it and she should start getting one.

 

Well, that's asking a lot to omit NS scenes because that's like ignoring the story in general. I know what you mean, but all must be included. "I won't give up, Naruto." Sounds like a person who idolized the guy to me. Trust me when I say this, I am not like sidelining at all. This is my personal opinion. Here's the thing with Kishi's writing. You can argue a bit that he uses the term that we usually see in a simple way, loosely. In other words, our reading comprehension will split from each other. When the series ends, only one is the route that Kishi truly wanted. In my opinion, I feel that the ones that are not ambiguous is the one we should take it and don't try to manipulate, and the rest should be taken as a friendly manners until proven otherwise. This is why I never have strong hate like some in here on Hinata. Heck, I don't see why praying Neji is a bad thing. It's like a religious thing. Like if my brother is in trouble, I would pray grandfather to help him. Actually, didn't FMA did the same. Winry was there, so why pray God. Anyway, opinion is opinion.

 

I like what you said there about romance. Now, I don't know what's his game on SS recent downfall, but if it has a morale that actually teach the value of life, then I can't say he suck at it because it was made to be bad for the moral purpose. As for NH, well, that could be our fault for taking it serious in the first place. But I would fault him to make things ambiguous, that's about it. So who knows in the meantime. For the record, the amount of info I write in here is how I do things. It's not that I think you're missing a clue or anything, it's just that I do thing to not only respond to you but for others to see, whether they need more info or not.

But what passion did she found? When I say passion I'm not talking about the feeling of passion, I don't know if it has the same meaning in english but in french passion also means "hobby", something important to her, something to spend time on. 

 

For the rest I agree with you. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

But what passion did she found? When I say passion I'm not talking about the feeling of passion, I don't know if it has the same meaning in english but in french passion also means "hobby", something important to her, something to spend time on. 

 

For the rest I agree with you. 

Passion could mean more than just that. To be honest, it is used as emotion often in here to say the strong energy. Her passion is to keep getting stronger and don't stop. Before she doesn't feel that much energy to continue on. Now she does and it doesn't have to be with Naruto.

[rocci]

@ns4life
Is it true that kishi said he would write romance in part 2?

If naruto doesn't love sakura since the start of manga, I will say that nh is canon pairing not NS.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, I remember that he want to try to write romance after part 1 seem to ended. It's hard to say, but maybe the idea is in part 1, he wasn't going out to confirm a pairing already. Now, he is going to go deep on it and it all began in chapter 245. It's probably why we keep seeing romantic undertone with NS. Usually, other anime/manga don't go doing that, just show good friendship. If they want a canon pairing, they will just write it at the end. It's at times the reason why you do see characters being the same until they come out and confess out of the blue.

[Sakura~]

Sawyer7mage "That transition is intentional by Kishimoto. It's there to make you think, OH Naruto care for Hinata!"

 

The Naruhina tards need to calm down lol.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Seriously, as many here said, it's a transitional that all of them are gone and Naruto wants to save them, but got forced by Sasuke because once step out, he's gone in a instant. Darn, I wanted him to get Rinnegan.

[Hanabi]

And that event is the little filler chapter Kishi made when Tsunade came back to the village as a Hokage. We saw all Teams killing time together

i don't care about hinata, but which chapter is that?

[tricksie]

Well, in fact there are just 2 things that caught my atention at the end of Part 1, it's that after the chuunin exam was over, Hinata's whole attention was over Naruto, she didn't even think about her role as a Hyuuga anymore, it was only Naruto and that since one event. And that event is the little filler chapter Kishi made when Tsunade came back to the village as a Hokage. We saw all Teams killing time together and when we saw Hinata's team, she was admiring Shino and Kiba for having a goal, something they really love. And she even thought "Me too, I would like to have a passion like they do." And after that it was only about Naruto. Do you think there could be a link between this scene and her future obsession with Naruto? Writting it, I have some doubts it seems stupid to think that, but I wonder what could be the purpose of this chapter and especially Hinata's thoughts, since after that she didn't found any passion excpet her obsession about Naruto.

 

And also the thing that is disturbing me about NH in Part 1 is the fact that she's the last character we see when Naruto leaves the village. She's stalking him and think "Me too, I won't give up Naruto/ I will do my best" But what was she talking about? Her love for Naruto? Or what? And the fact that she's the last one being seen, stalkiing Naruto, makes me a little worried. I have to admit that if we hadn't seen scenes like Naruto fighting for Sakura against Gaara and the POAL, I would say that Part 1 was clearly showing an ending of NH/SS, but then Part 2 is clearly hinting at NS.  I even myself wondered if Kishi had not just changed his mind when he began Part 2. 

 

 

But even if what I say may sound negative, it doesn't change what I said earlier, since the beginning of Part 2, it looks like there is no more NH until Pain Arc. There is only NS. And I still think Kishi's leading his story towards a NS ending, it's just that Part 1 seemed like he was going towards a SS/NH ending. Well more NH, because I always find the fact that in each SS moments, even in Part 1, Sakura is always sad because of Sasuke, he doesn't make her smile once, that's Naruto's role. 

 

I have recently been watching the anime again, from the beginning, and I've thought the exact same thing: It's surprising how much NH and SS there really is, if you are looking for it. In fact, I've thought to myself that I can see how people who ship NH and SS can really connect the dots in support of their pairing back to the very beginning. 

 

And I agree, I think Part 2 pushed more the story in more of a pairing direction and more specifically a mutual NaruSaku pairing. But Part 1 is really heavy on the SS and the one-sided crushes of NH (Hinata to Naruto) and NS (Naruto to Sakura). It absolutely feels like the end story is going to be SS and NH, even though that Naruto is running doing around to fulfill his POL to Sakura.

 

I agree too, that if Naruto hadn't saved Sakura from Gaara and if there hadn't been a few tender expressions around the POL between Naruto and Sakura, then I would not even be inclined to put much stock in the NS ship existing outside of Naruto's childish crush. Sakura's behavior toward him is kind and friendly, but not indicative of love. Yet! 

 

And yes, just like you I've noticed that things change dramatically in Part 2. It really grows into a mutual affection on Sakura's part, and becomes more mature on Naruto's. Hinata doesn't reenter the picture until the Pain arc. 

 

I've always thought there were the beginnings of the NS relationship in Part 1 (the test scene, fighting Gaara, the POL), but now seeing it again, I think that Part 1 is alot more vague and open-ended than I remember. 

 

Now, the so-called NH and SS moments in the manga are outright and heavy and nearly irrefutable. They inspire loads and loads of debate pages. But I don't see them as any threat to the NS ending. However going back to Part 1, the NS/SS/NH scenes that could be taken as a shipping moment seem to get equal attention/emphasis, and the ending pairing seems much more of anybody's game. 

 

Anyway, one thing I've taken away from rewatching it is that I can understand where and why NH and SS shippers start out liking their pairing. Then all the little moments in future chapters/episodes just builds on that. 

 

I think Kishimoto has gone to great lengths to show that NaruSaku is going to be the end pairing, and to gently aim NH/SS shippers in that direction so it won't be a totally pull-the-rug-out-from-underneath-them shock. But Kishi is still keeping the suspense going by hinting that NH/SS could still happen, with Sakura's forlorn looks and Hinata's "Naruto-kun." To a NS shipper, those little hints amount to nothing. But to an NH/SS shipper, it's another in a long line of evidence that the relationships so heavily hinted at in Part 1 might still actually happen.

 

(And it's not mean or cruel on Kishimoto's part, it's just the business of creating a manga and doing everything he can to keep up the interest from all parts of his audience.)

[TouKen4Life3g]

Quite honestly, if going by part 1, I would think no pairing would happen. Sure went that way with slam dunk. Here, it almost got that feeling. Now, I laugh at myself thinking that.

[NaruSakuishere]

Sawyer7mage "That transition is intentional by Kishimoto. It's there to make you think, OH Naruto care for Hinata!"

 

The Naruhina tards need to calm down lol.

XD I agree. They're just grasping at straws at this point.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Well, in fact there are just 2 things that caught my atention at the end of Part 1, it's that after the chuunin exam was over, Hinata's whole attention was over Naruto, she didn't even think about her role as a Hyuuga anymore, it was only Naruto and that since one event. And that event is the little filler chapter Kishi made when Tsunade came back to the village as a Hokage. We saw all Teams killing time together and when we saw Hinata's team, she was admiring Shino and Kiba for having a goal, something they really love. And she even thought "Me too, I would like to have a passion like they do." And after that it was only about Naruto. Do you think there could be a link between this scene and her future obsession with Naruto? Writting it, I have some doubts it seems stupid to think that, but I wonder what could be the purpose of this chapter and especially Hinata's thoughts, since after that she didn't found any passion excpet her obsession about Naruto.

 

And also the thing that is disturbing me about NH in Part 1 is the fact that she's the last character we see when Naruto leaves the village. She's stalking him and think "Me too, I won't give up Naruto/ I will do my best" But what was she talking about? Her love for Naruto? Or what? And the fact that she's the last one being seen, stalkiing Naruto, makes me a little worried. I have to admit that if we hadn't seen scenes like Naruto fighting for Sakura against Gaara and the POAL, I would say that Part 1 was clearly showing an ending of NH/SS, but then Part 2 is clearly hinting at NS.  I even myself wondered if Kishi had not just changed his mind when he began Part 2. 

 

Hm, that's interesting. I was aware of the second scene you mentioned, about Hinata being the last one to see Naruto before he left the village but I'd completely forgotten about the first one.

 

It could be possible that in part one Kishimoto was trying to keep his options open pairing wise. I know NS fans like to believe the pairing was always intended from the beginning, but maybe Kishi hadn't decided at the end of part one if he was going to go with NaruSaku without a shadow of a doubt and maybe those scenes with Hinata were meant to leave a route open to NaruHina if he decided to go that direction instead. Of course that's all speculation on my part. Maybe they were just red herrings.

 

Either way, I can't see NH as too much of a threat when Naruto has shown no clear signs of romantic reciprocation in nearly 700 chapters. And even if Kishi might have considered the possibility of NH during part one, the development in part two points very strongly in NaruSaku's direction, which I'm sure you don't need me to tell you.

 

Maybe Hinata's 'passion' is something she hasn't found yet? It could be that her love for Naruto is her passion, or perhaps her admiration of Naruto will inspire her to find something to dedicate herself to in the end and that will become her passion. Maybe nothing will come of that scene at all. Honestly I don't know, I'm just throwing around guesses.

[Shashank95]

I still wish Hanamichi got over Haruko, and maybe moved onto Fuuji  

 

Curse you Inoue Takehiko for creating such an awesome manga and finishing it in such an inconclusive manner.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It does feel like we could be reading it wrong for a while. As I said before, it's possible that we got the wrong idea for a long time. The blame should be half: to us and Kishi. To us, for causing it a huge deal for nothing. To him, for using it a bit loosely that keeps causing us to think love or not. Luckily though, NS stuff is straightforward, so you have to be extremely biased to say otherwise.

[咲耶姫]

i don't care about hinata, but which chapter is that?

172

I have recently been watching the anime again, from the beginning, and I've thought the exact same thing: It's surprising how much NH and SS there really is, if you are looking for it. In fact, I've thought to myself that I can see how people who ship NH and SS can really connect the dots in support of their pairing back to the very beginning. 

 

And I agree, I think Part 2 pushed more the story in more of a pairing direction and more specifically a mutual NaruSaku pairing. But Part 1 is really heavy on the SS and the one-sided crushes of NH (Hinata to Naruto) and NS (Naruto to Sakura). It absolutely feels like the end story is going to be SS and NH, even though that Naruto is running doing around to fulfill his POL to Sakura.

 

I agree too, that if Naruto hadn't saved Sakura from Gaara and if there hadn't been a few tender expressions around the POL between Naruto and Sakura, then I would not even be inclined to put much stock in the NS ship existing outside of Naruto's childish crush. Sakura's behavior toward him is kind and friendly, but not indicative of love. Yet!  

 

And yes, just like you I've noticed that things change dramatically in Part 2. It really grows into a mutual affection on Sakura's part, and becomes more mature on Naruto's. Hinata doesn't reenter the picture until the Pain arc. 

 

I've always thought there were the beginnings of the NS relationship in Part 1 (the test scene, fighting Gaara, the POL), but now seeing it again, I think that Part 1 is alot more vague and open-ended than I remember. 

 

Now, the so-called NH and SS moments in the manga are outright and heavy and nearly irrefutable. They inspire loads and loads of debate pages. But I don't see them as any threat to the NS ending. However going back to Part 1, the NS/SS/NH scenes that could be taken as a shipping moment seem to get equal attention/emphasis, and the ending pairing seems much more of anybody's game. 

 

Anyway, one thing I've taken away from rewatching it is that I can understand where and why NH and SS shippers start out liking their pairing. Then all the little moments in future chapters/episodes just builds on that. 

 

I think Kishimoto has gone to great lengths to show that NaruSaku is going to be the end pairing, and to gently aim NH/SS shippers in that direction so it won't be a totally pull-the-rug-out-from-underneath-them shock. But Kishi is still keeping the suspense going by hinting that NH/SS could still happen, with Sakura's forlorn looks and Hinata's "Naruto-kun." To a NS shipper, those little hints amount to nothing. But to an NH/SS shipper, it's another in a long line of evidence that the relationships so heavily hinted at in Part 1 might still actually happen.

 

(And it's not mean or cruel on Kishimoto's part, it's just the business of creating a manga and doing everything he can to keep up the interest from all parts of his audience.)

Thank you I'm glad someone share my thought about Part 1. People who say there is nothing NH/SS in Part 1 should reread it, because there are more NH/SS moment than NS until Part 2. Sasuke, before Orochimaru's curse could have reciprocate her feelings, he cared about her, always saving her and even being on the verge to confess his personnal story with Itachi. Naruto too, could have reciprocate Hinata's feelings, basing their relationship on a mutual admiration and friendship. 

...

But still, in Part 2 we barely see Hinata until the current Arc and Sasuke doesn't care anymore for Sakura, not one thought about her from him, several murder attempts etc...

While on NS side, Sakura is explicitly starting to reciprocate Naruto's feelings, and this time it's somewhat stated by some characters and not on fan's opinion anymore. 

 

So, I really think Kishimoto was telling the truth when he said at the end of Part 1 that he didn"t really thought about pairing and that he focused on it on Part 2. 

But like I said, it's his obsession with developping character's bond that create all this mess. He makes all the bond to ambiguous even on boys and boys side, like Naruto/Sasuke, Naruto/Gaara.

Edited by 咲耶姫, 22 May 2014 - 02:25 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Hm...I just thought of something. Write it later. Working now.

[rikakim94]

Didn't Kishi say in an interview he didn't think about ending the pairing wars at first? I forgot which interview it was in but I think it was sometime between Naruto vs. Gaara and the end of Part 1

 

It was during the pein arc he was interviewed.That statement really disappoints me he should have had a pairing in mind maybe the love triangle would not be in a questionable mess.   

[rikakim94]

172

 

Thank you I'm glad someone share my thought about Part 1. People who say there is nothing NH/SS in Part 1 should reread it, because there are more NH/SS moment than NS until Part 2. Sasuke, before Orochimaru's curse could have reciprocate her feelings, he cared about her, always saving her and even being on the verge to confess his personnal story with Itachi. Naruto too, could have reciprocate Hinata's feelings, basing their relationship on a mutual admiration and friendship. 

...

But still, in Part 2 we barely see Hinata until the current Arc and Sasuke doesn't care anymore for Sakura, not one thought about her from him, several murder attempts etc...

While on NS side, Sakura is explicitly starting to reciprocate Naruto's feelings, and this time it's somewhat stated by some characters and not on fan's opinion anymore. 

 

So, I really think Kishimoto was telling the truth when he said at the end of Part 1 that he didn"t really thought about pairing and that he focused on it on Part 2. 

But like I said, it's his obsession with developping character's bond that create all this mess. He makes all the bond to ambiguous even on boys and boys side, like Naruto/Sasuke, Naruto/Gaara.

 

I think it would have been so much better if kishi did in fact had one pairing in mind because he seems to be that person that can't do a love triangle in a proper way. 

 

Yup thats whats killing the manga its the male bond that gets more attention. meanwhile the female bond is a one sided obsession.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Man, I kind of find it funny that Obito is still alive. Look, I know there are people that are not invested in parallel for Rin, but honestly, it still holds value, especially if it lasted this long. It's like "Dammit! Die already! Don't want you to ruin non-NS!" In fact, the people who is still around does seem someone who they want to get rid of, mainly Minato. No Hinata, no Minato's correction.

I don't know, I feel like they have way more challenge to pass through. I already listed, so feel free to check again.