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The Last: Naruto the Movie: Thread 2 aka The Last retcon: Hinata-sama the movie


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#19281 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 05:13 PM

All this guy was talking about, was how he worked hard to make everything LOOK good. Not that he tried to make things make sense with the canon story.

Of course it was difficult to think why Hinata writing Naruto's name on apiece of paper would work. No real ninja academy would ask that to a bunch of kids, because once they became ninja, they never knew when their last day would be. This is just more crap about Naruto noticing Hinata's feelings, but nothing explaining why he starts to like her. This guy keeps talking about NH memories together, yet they had next to none. The only memories you could say we're from their childhood, were those brief moments they spoke at the Chunin exam.

It's not even me being mad, it's just the fact that they're ignoring the one most obvious fact that everyone knows about Naruto, being that he was alone, when he was a kid. It's ridiculous how much they undermine, just for a few cliche scenes in the movie. Which is why the only thing that's in most Naruto fans hearts are how disappointing this crap is.

 

Rose, my dear, you just won the Internet for the bold and italic phrase. :) Not to mention too that the movie showed Hinata is so petty, she couldn't be happy if Naruto was gonna end up with someone other than her, where in canon, she seemed happy about Sakura hugging Naruto after the fight with Pain/Nagato.  And yeah, it is pretty petty that the guy who did that interview only wanted to try to make things look good, rather than make a freaking story that makes ANY SENSE!!!!!



#19282 Hanabi

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 05:20 PM

 

Rose, my dear, you just won the Internet for the bold and italic phrase. :) Not to mention too that the movie showed Hinata is so petty, she couldn't be happy if Naruto was gonna end up with someone other than her, where in canon, she seemed happy about Sakura hugging Naruto after the fight with Pain/Nagato.  And yeah, it is pretty petty that the guy who did that interview only wanted to try to make things look good, rather than make a freaking story that makes ANY SENSE!!!!!

that part where she cries and run away after naruto took no notice of her in the ramen shop.. it's like studio pierrot introduced a new character hinata 2.0


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#19283 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 05:23 PM

that part where she cries and run away after naruto took no notice of her in the ramen shop.. it's like studio pierrot introduced a new character hinata 2.0

 

Which is pretty dumb, as well as erasing how Sakura was falling in love with Naruto steadily throughout Shippuden.



#19284 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 05:43 PM

I think if I made the story, would it be realistic if I make Hinata accepting NaruSaku?

509356167_759751.gif?4


#19285 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 05:46 PM

I think if I made the story, would it be realistic if I make Hinata accepting NaruSaku?

 

I think so, Ken, considering she didn't see, unhappy when Sakura hugged Naruto. And we saw with Sakura she was bummed to find out Hinata loved Naruto, even if I see it more as infatuation borderlining obsessive for sure.



#19286 Nostradamus

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 06:42 PM

I think if I made the story, would it be realistic if I make Hinata accepting NaruSaku?

She already accepted the end pairing but her fans didn't.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#19287 Catra

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:07 PM

this wasnt two beings falling in love it was a brainwash.



#19288 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:35 PM

this wasnt two beings falling in love it was a brainwash.

 

And just out of pity to the female in this "relationship", according to what Kishi said.



#19289 rocci

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 09:52 PM

She already accepted the end pairing but her fans didn't.

You mean the hug scene? I don't think she accept it.

#19290 Nar123

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 10:07 PM

You mean the hug scene? I don't think she accept it.

 

That scene showed she was at least not bothered by it


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                                                                         :eager:  Persona 5 hype     :eager:


#19291 Nostradamus

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 10:12 PM

You mean the hug scene? I don't think she accept it.

Yes I mean the hug scene, it was done to show the readers the end pairing and to show that Hinata would be happy if Naruto doesn't return her feelings. She accepted that Naruto and Sakura had a thing but her fans couldn't accept it.

However that scene does not matter anymore so it's pointless talking about it. Just like everything in this story. All of it for nothing.

If I ever meet Kishimoto I'm going to punch him in the face. Yes I know it's aggressive but he really pissed me off.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#19292 Catra

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 10:15 PM

have you ever read/watched something, where you're so disgusted and scornful, you can't even be bothered to remember at least the good times you had with said product?



#19293 rocci

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 11:04 PM

Yes I mean the hug scene, it was done to show the readers the end pairing and to show that Hinata would be happy if Naruto doesn't return her feelings. She accepted that Naruto and Sakura had a thing but her fans couldn't accept it.
However that scene does not matter anymore so it's pointless talking about it. Just like everything in this story. All of it for nothing.
If I ever meet Kishimoto I'm going to punch him in the face. Yes I know it's aggressive but he really pissed me off.

It never said nor it did show that she's over naruto.
That kind of argument is the same with nh & ss argument that naruto is not love sakura anymore which is not true.

@nar123
Doesn't mean she doesn't love him anymore.

Edited by rocci, 13 September 2015 - 11:06 PM.


#19294 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 11:50 PM

have you ever read/watched something, where you're so disgusted and scornful, you can't even be bothered to remember at least the good times you had with said product?

 

Sometimes I have felt that way regarding Naruto Cat.



#19295 Shadow1275

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 12:00 AM

that part where she cries and run away after naruto took no notice of her in the ramen shop.. it's like studio pierrot introduced a new character hinata 2.0

MZdn3.gif

 

To me it's like they rolled her back to the beginning of the series, than moved her even further back. When she wasn't on Naruto's team she'd be disappointed but it would be realistic at least. Now she throws a tantrum just because the boy she "loves" isn't 100% focused on her. What happened to all that talk about maturing, not running anymore, moving forward, and standing by his side again?

 

 

Every character just seems so depressed in this ending, its sickening. It's like marrying your childhood crush expecting gumdrops and ice cream but then realizing too late that marriage includes chemistry, bills, the seven year itch, arguments and compromises, costs of children, in-laws etc. 


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#19296 Atheck

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 12:48 AM

Yes I mean the hug scene, it was done to show the readers the end pairing and to show that Hinata would be happy if Naruto doesn't return her feelings. She accepted that Naruto and Sakura had a thing but her fans couldn't accept it.

However that scene does not matter anymore so it's pointless talking about it. Just like everything in this story. All of it for nothing.

If I ever meet Kishimoto I'm going to punch him in the face. Yes I know it's aggressive but he really pissed me off.

 

What if he was with the Pierrot staff members directly responsible for writing the Hinata-centric fillers and The Last? Would they all get punches? We have a habit of blaming Kishi when in actuality Pierrot is as much to blame for the ending as Kishi for sacrificing his integrity.



#19297 Popuri

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 02:12 AM

starring
 
the scarf
 
short hair mcbuzzcut
 
naruto's mothers scarf
 
5 second cameo
 
useless leader
 
and lindsey lohan

Just read this so.. question: do you mean lindsay lohan is h? :headscratch:

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#19298 Nostradamus

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 02:29 AM

 

What if he was with the Pierrot staff members directly responsible for writing the Hinata-centric fillers and The Last? Would they all get punches? We have a habit of blaming Kishi when in actuality Pierrot is as much to blame for the ending as Kishi for sacrificing his integrity.

If I could yes.

Now here's the thing. I've already explained it in my rant that I'm 100% this wasn't his decision. If you want check it out here: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=15239 if you don't want to read the whole thing since it's long because I like to go in detail you can ask me for the part where I explained it, and I'll post just that bit.

 

That being said even though I said that I don't believe this was his decision. That does not make him an innocent bystander, because he allowed this to happen. Even if he was under contract what was stopping him from saying "You want to do this fine, do it without me."? Granted I don't know the Japanese laws; maybe if you sign a contract you must obey it or else. But still come on, he let it happen and then he has the nerve to try to justify it by lying to us.

 

If he would've shut up then my anger towards him would be less. But the fact that he opens his mouth and talks only BS and also shows it; pisses me off to no end. (Oh and I've also talked in my rant about his interviews but still)

My anger towards him is because he didn't fight back and then he tries to justify this crap.

We blame SP (well most of us including myself) but we also have to blame him.


Edited by Nostradamus, 14 September 2015 - 02:35 AM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#19299 Shadow1275

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:35 AM

 

What if he was with the Pierrot staff members directly responsible for writing the Hinata-centric fillers and The Last? Would they all get punches? We have a habit of blaming Kishi when in actuality Pierrot is as much to blame for the ending as Kishi for sacrificing his integrity.

But Kishi is the author and therefore has the final say on characters. He holds creator rights. I wouldn't go so far as to assault him but the bottom line is that he has final say. People are going to develop strong opinions on his work, that is just the way it is and of course these people are going to have varying levels of influence depending on their relationship with the writer but when you write a story that intends to send a certain message to others it is not a very flexible thing. It is a chain built link by link. Remove a certain link and replace with an un-planned part of the chain and the entire thing falls apart.

 

One thing was accepted by the majority of the fandom, that Narusaku was the most likely pairing, (Hell even Sawyer admitted that when he did his pairing analysis videos.) So what does that mean for Kishi now that the un-expected has happened?

 

1. He caved for monetary reasons

 

2. He caved for popularity reasons

 

I don't buy the idea that NH/SS was endgame because as a writer myself the way things were written and played out those two outcomes made absolutely zero sense. The largest reason for this is the simple fact that in the entirety of the series after several clear hints and declarations about which girl he is actually interested in Naruto never clearly gets over Sakura. No mention of not liking her, no show of disinterest, not even a mention that he likes Hinata more. Nothing. Another reason. Naruto clearly states to Sai that he won't mention his feelings until he returns Sasuke and fulfills his promise of a lifetime. No mention of this at all after Sasuke turns good. And yes the main point of the LOI arc was that he was released from Sakura's promise, (though technically he said that while her promise was important he was doing it to also save Sasuke.) It also could be argued that after the LOI Naruto perhaps realized that Sakura would never move on and he himself had moved on especially coupled with 615( which would be a good move if the ending we got was endgame) But then he introduces 631 which infers the opposite where despite him calling her confession fake he calls her his girlfriend. And as if to screw things up further, whenever Sakura shows Sasuke attention Naruto got jealous during the War arc.

 

Finally, the excuse of "you just loved me for a rivalry" or Kishi's excuse that he sucks at romance is bullcrap. It's bullcrap and all I need is one panel to prove it.

172-17.jpg

 

This scene is perfect. It's not a simple expression of romance but a complex expression of romance. What is the childish thing to do in this situation if you are Naruto? Just look at any cartoon where two characters have a rivalry over a female, or better yet look at Naruto in the beginning of the series. This isn't a boring expression of romance, it's a mature expression. It expresses both Naruto's maturity and the nature of his feelings for Sakura. It takes maturity to walk away when you know that you just aren't the one at the time. It takes patience. It's selflessness. And as if weaving a quilt several panels later we see Sakura offer Sasuke an apple and Sasuke just throws it onto the ground and trashes her gift. That's not spur of the moment writing, that's planned. It shows the difference between Naruto and Sakura's relationship and Sasuke and Sakura's relationship and because it is executed so well it works big time.

 

 

And that is why Kishi deserves the blame. Sure it's easy to see that SP were huge Hinata fanboys bc of her Yamato-Nadeshiko nature but that happens no matter what you do as a writer. It's just human nature to like different things and the majority will always prefer the submissive character bc he/she is portayed as a victim and is therefore the easy route. It's the same reason people like puppies and kittens, they're small and cute. (But not me because I'm a manly man) :cool:. But it is the duty of the author to stay the course of his story no matter what the influence because he holds the final say and he has chosen these plot elements for a reason. When he caves he might as well make the fanbase the authors and is essentially handing the wheel over to several people who all want to take the story in different random directions. In one episode Hinata holds her own in Pain, in another episode she's shy and timid, the next episode she smacks naruto and tells him to man up, in another episode she does a naked dance on a lake at night, next she gains lion fists, then she gains golden byakugan goddess powers.

 

All because the author does not protect his beautiful quilt and in the end it is left in tatters from the destructive biased hands of the fandumb.


Edited by Shadow1275, 14 September 2015 - 03:40 AM.

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#19300 Nostradamus

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:52 AM

But Kishi is the author and therefore has the final say on characters. He holds creator rights. I wouldn't go so far as to assault him but the bottom line is that he has final say. People are going to develop strong opinions on his work, that is just the way it is and of course these people are going to have varying levels of influence depending on their relationship with the writer but when you write a story that intends to send a certain message to others it is not a very flexible thing. It is a chain built link by link. Remove a certain link and replace with an un-planned part of the chain and the entire thing falls apart.

 

One thing was accepted by the majority of the fandom, that Narusaku was the most likely pairing, (Hell even Sawyer admitted that when he did his pairing analysis videos.) So what does that mean for Kishi now that the un-expected has happened?

 

1. He caved for monetary reasons

 

2. He caved for popularity reasons

 

I don't buy the idea that NH/SS was endgame because as a writer myself the way things were written and played out those two outcomes made absolutely zero sense. The largest reason for this is the simple fact that in the entirety of the series after several clear hints and declarations about which girl he is actually interested in Naruto never clearly gets over Sakura. No mention of not liking her, no show of disinterest, not even a mention that he likes Hinata more. Nothing. Another reason. Naruto clearly states to Sai that he won't mention his feelings until he returns Sasuke and fulfills his promise of a lifetime. No mention of this at all after Sasuke turns good. And yes the main point of the LOI arc was that he was released from Sakura's promise, (though technically he said that while her promise was important he was doing it to also save Sasuke.) It also could be argued that after the LOI Naruto perhaps realized that Sakura would never move on and he himself had moved on especially coupled with 615( which would be a good move if the ending we got was endgame) But then he introduces 631 which infers the opposite where despite him calling her confession fake he calls her his girlfriend. And as if to screw things up further, whenever Sakura shows Sasuke attention Naruto got jealous during the War arc.

 

Finally, the excuse of "you just loved me for a rivalry" or Kishi's excuse that he sucks at romance is bullcrap. It's bullcrap and all I need is one panel to prove it.

172-17.jpg

 

This scene is perfect. It's not a simple expression of romance but a complex expression of romance. What is the childish thing to do in this situation if you are Naruto? Just look at any cartoon where two characters have a rivalry over a female, or better yet look at Naruto in the beginning of the series. This isn't a boring expression of romance, it's a mature expression. It expresses both Naruto's maturity and the nature of his feelings for Sakura. It takes maturity to walk away when you know that you just aren't the one at the time. It takes patience. It's selflessness. And as if weaving a quilt several panels later we see Sakura offer Sasuke an apple and Sasuke just throws it onto the ground and trashes her gift. That's not spur of the moment writing, that's planned. It shows the difference between Naruto and Sakura's relationship and Sasuke and Sakura's relationship and because it is executed so well it works big time.

 

 

And that is why Kishi deserves the blame. Sure it's easy to see that SP were huge Hinata fanboys bc of her Yamato-Nadeshiko nature but that happens no matter what you do as a writer. It's just human nature to like different things and the majority will always prefer the submissive character bc he/she is portayed as a victim and is therefore the easy route. It's the same reason people like puppies and kittens, they're small and cute. (But not me because I'm a manly man) :cool:. But it is the duty of the author to stay the course of his story no matter what the influence because he holds the final say and he has chosen these plot elements for a reason. When he caves he might as well make the fanbase the authors and is essentially handing the wheel over to several people who all want to take the story in different random directions. In one episode Hinata holds her own in Pain, in another episode she's shy and timid, the next episode she smacks naruto and tells him to man up, in another episode she does a naked dance on a lake at night, next she gains lion fists, then she gains golden byakugan goddess powers.

 

All because the author does not protect his beautiful quilt and in the end it is left in tatters from the destructive biased hands of the fandumb.

Absolutely brilliant. :thumb:

I do agree with you 99.9% because we don't really know who holds the rights to "Naruto" who is or are the one/ones that make the final decision. While it's true that he is the author we have to remember that he works for other people so they might be the ones to with the final say. But that does excuse Kishimoto. It doesn't give him a free pass.

I've explained why I believe SP was behind this but that does not mean I view Kishimoto as a victim in all of this.

 

These excuses that he gives us about how the ending was planned from day 1 including the pairings don't have any ground to stand on. Anyone that read the story without fanboy-ing over their favorite character can see that's complete BS.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.





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