19964 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

To be honest, dude, Sasuke shouldn't even be in the equation at all. Indifference is the true negative of love. It's not hate. And who says she thinks she deserves Sasuke? I don't see anywhere that implies that. From what I can tell, she isn't even thinking of Sasuke at all in that retrospect. However, this would apply if she truly does have feelings left for Sasuke in that way, but that is up in the air at the moment. Things could have and they might have changed since then. And like I said, we discussed 540 to death on this, so I don't think we need to bring that chapter back in.

Again, you might find this all stupid or asinine in some way, but this is how real life is. In a way, I agree with you, but then again this is what I most love about this relationship. It is the most realistic relationship type in this whole manga. If NS becomes canon in the end, it would be the best possible way to depict a loving relationship in a real life situation.

Everything eventually becomes a double standard. Even on this forum we have people use double standards on a daily basis and not just with relationships. This could be how we debate right now. It could be how we debated last week and even tomorrow.

It is most interesting if you really sit down and think about it. And if you hate it, that means Kishi is doing it right. Here we say Kishi can't write love yet he has made the most realistic relationship out of any manga I have ever read. The only way to ruin it is not make NS canon which would be kind of cheap. Of course, we also got some people who are not a fan of the "happy ending" and it seems to be a common thing as of late. Many stories giving these "bittersweet" endings that really have no "happy" to them. You just end up with content.

The problem is that it can be the most realistic relationship on the manga but it's the unrealistic stuff that holds off this pairing, SAkura acknowledged Naruto on her confession as the guy who did everything to her and as a bigger presence on her heart but still wasnt in love with or loved him romantically, but then goes to Sasuke and shows that she still loves that guy and has any reasons to love him, showing the thank you as something really significant and that explains why she loves him.
It's just yes NaruSaku is the most realistic but sadly it wont became canon realistically.
the way that Sakura's lov is portraited not only by her but also with Rin, when she loves Kakashi with no reasons whatesover when it's shown Obito being a bigger presense on her life.
I just hate is the fact how Kishimoto does everything he can to hold off the pairing, first with the unworthy thing and later he put Sakura on the sidelines on an entire arc, and even downgraded her character to only romantic plot device, Kizuna books just stated what i was wondering about Sakura, the romantic plot is who will Sakura ends with who, Naruto or Sasuke, Hinata will not even brought up(which is a good thing ), but he made Sakura on the sideline and when she returns and just a NS fanservice to counterbalance all the "NH" fanservice we had.
And to finish is that she knows Sasuke is not a great guy which can be a super troll because he didnt stated if the "great guy" is a guy that loves her or shows care and concern about her or if the "great guy" is just a powerfull shinobi or a hero.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 May 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[Atheck]

Hey, guys. I haven't been here for a while lol. And I'm back from just getting violently assaulted from a NaruHina fan on YT. And for what? 'Cause I said Kishimoto would be a completely failed writer if he made NaruHina/SasuSaku canon instead of NaruSaku and my faith in him would be lost. This person said the following to me:

1). What kind of of Naruto fan am I if I call Kishi a failed writer just because of pairings? Clearly, this person thinks I read for pairing when I don't. I was just making a observation of a lot of Kishi's forcedness lately.

2). "NaruSaku fans are hypocrites if they accuse NaruHina of 'lack of development' yet ship MinaKushi when it was also suffering from 'lack of development'. Kushina hated him, then fell in love with him. No development."

3). Kishimoto said in an interview that Hinata would make a better heroine than Sakura.

4). Sakura was never meant to be created along with Sasuke. Hinata was the love interest from the start.

5). He did this early drawing that supports NaruHina. One with Naruto in the background with Hinata in a dress. Complete and total proof for NaruHina.

6). NaruSaku is the red herring pairing, NaruHina/SasuSaku is the true pairing.

I've already countered all these points, I just wanted to share them with you here. I seriously find it almost laughable that I was able to deeply offend a NaruHina fan so badly by calling NaruHina bad writing. It's because it's true, it's not good writing at all this late in the story. It's just ... this fan.

Well I can't say that I have not paid witness to those arguing points before. The things that they say at times are detestable and imply a lack of reading comprehension when it comes to the manga, specifically the slight emotional and physical details that Kishi provides to his characters like blushing whenever Naruto is interacting with Sakura and lack thereof during his exchange of dialogue with Hinata. It can be exceedingly difficult to endure denigrations from NH/SS fans but unless you're going to attempt to debate them try not let them overwhelm you. Although it seems as if you had that particular situation under control. This post could just be perceived as a warning to everyone (and partially to myself).

Anyway, impressive job that you managed to silence their retorts in such a manner.

[Sojobo]

Lol
How can you talk developpement about a flashback ?
Kishimoto just shows a summary of MinaKushi in 4 pages.
Of course he will not show all the ambiguity, hints and other stuff. 4 pages for 20 years (or less) is not enough.

Sad arguments again from the opposite fandom...

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Hey, guys. I haven't been here for a while lol. And I'm back from just getting violently assaulted from a NaruHina fan on YT. And for what? 'Cause I said Kishimoto would be a completely failed writer if he made NaruHina/SasuSaku canon instead of NaruSaku and my faith in him would be lost. This person said the following to me:

1). What kind of of Naruto fan am I if I call Kishi a failed writer just because of pairings? Clearly, this person thinks I read for pairing when I don't. I was just making a observation of a lot of Kishi's forcedness lately.

2). "NaruSaku fans are hypocrites if they accuse NaruHina of 'lack of development' yet ship MinaKushi when it was also suffering from 'lack of development'. Kushina hated him, then fell in love with him. No development."

3). Kishimoto said in an interview that Hinata would make a better heroine than Sakura.

4). Sakura was never meant to be created along with Sasuke. Hinata was the love interest from the start.

5). He did this early drawing that supports NaruHina. One with Naruto in the background with Hinata in a dress. Complete and total proof for NaruHina.

6). NaruSaku is the red herring pairing, NaruHina/SasuSaku is the true pairing.

I've already countered all these points, I just wanted to share them with you here. I seriously find it almost laughable that I was able to deeply offend a NaruHina fan so badly by calling NaruHina bad writing. It's because it's true, it's not good writing at all this late in the story. It's just ... this fan.

I never see the drawing, link?

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 May 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[ladyannelise]

Hey, guys. I haven't been here for a while lol. And I'm back from just getting violently assaulted from a NaruHina fan on YT. And for what? 'Cause I said Kishimoto would be a completely failed writer if he made NaruHina/SasuSaku canon instead of NaruSaku and my faith in him would be lost. This person said the following to me:

1). What kind of of Naruto fan am I if I call Kishi a failed writer just because of pairings? Clearly, this person thinks I read for pairing when I don't. I was just making a observation of a lot of Kishi's forcedness lately.

2). "NaruSaku fans are hypocrites if they accuse NaruHina of 'lack of development' yet ship MinaKushi when it was also suffering from 'lack of development'. Kushina hated him, then fell in love with him. No development."

3). Kishimoto said in an interview that Hinata would make a better heroine than Sakura.

4). Sakura was never meant to be created along with Sasuke. Hinata was the love interest from the start.

5). He did this early drawing that supports NaruHina. One with Naruto in the background with Hinata in a dress. Complete and total proof for NaruHina.

6). NaruSaku is the red herring pairing, NaruHina/SasuSaku is the true pairing.

I've already countered all these points, I just wanted to share them with you here. I seriously find it almost laughable that I was able to deeply offend a NaruHina fan so badly by calling NaruHina bad writing. It's because it's true, it's not good writing at all this late in the story. It's just ... this fan.

good job! well, the good thing about NaruSaku is that the manga itself proves this pairing
and i agree with what you've said, because if this series is really about to end, there's no plausible way for Kishi to input so many details to counter what he already did for NaruSaku just to end up with NaruHina., especially since this was supposed to be shonen,. the 'pairing' may be important part of the story but it's not the main focus of this type of manga.

on a side note, i kinda understand these NaruHina fans, wether we admit it or not, their 'girl' keeps on appearing, and each time Naruto is involved. so whenever she shows up, they cant seem to stop themselves and just go screaming canon, canon!
im not a NaruHina fan, never was. even when i shipped SasuSaku, i didnt care about NaruHina at all. i dont hate Hinata but i dont like her that much either, for me she's just one of those characters after the major ones.. and her comment on Naruto's hand just irked me since Neji was just a few feet away, so no, i'm not her fan... however, it's kinda suprising and disappointing how much effort Kishi puts effort in showing her up out of the blue,. and we have to admit that must mean something too.. but if Kishi intends to make NH the end pairing, then that's fine, it's his creation after all,. but all i wish is for him to be able to justify why it wasnt NaruSaku..

[James S Cassidy]

Hey, guys. I haven't been here for a while lol. And I'm back from just getting violently assaulted from a NaruHina fan on YT. And for what? 'Cause I said Kishimoto would be a completely failed writer if he made NaruHina/SasuSaku canon instead of NaruSaku and my faith in him would be lost. This person said the following to me:

I'll bite, let's see what my counter arguments are.

1). What kind of of Naruto fan am I if I call Kishi a failed writer just because of pairings? Clearly, this person thinks I read for pairing when I don't. I was just making a observation of a lot of Kishi's forcedness lately.

This is where I would ask them "So if NH didn't become canon, but NS did, this would not bother you?" Depending on their answer is depending on what kind of fan they are. If they retort with a "That would be stupid of Kishi to do that" I would retort with the same thing they said.

2). "NaruSaku fans are hypocrites if they accuse NaruHina of 'lack of development' yet ship MinaKushi when it was also suffering from 'lack of development'. Kushina hated him, then fell in love with him. No development."

Okay...well kishi never elaborated on MinaKushi's development. Not to say there "isn't any." We got a brief history lesson on them only highlighting the more important scenes, but that doesn't mean there is "no development." I think people need to understand what the NS mean by development. It's not just "how many interactions they have." It's "How have those moments change the development as a whole." What we do know about Minato and Kushina is that their situation was not much different from Naruto's and Sakura's and they ended up together cause Minato saved her and loved her fro who she was. That's why she loved him back.

Just because it is a brief, doesn't mean it isn't important.

3). Kishimoto said in an interview that Hinata would make a better heroine than Sakura.

I really wish people would stop going to this one. They want to believe Kishi said this, but when he says the confession was to show how much of a heroine Sakura really is, they ignore it completely. Even though Sakura's confession was a very heroic thing to do or try to do.

4). Sakura was never meant to be created along with Sasuke. Hinata was the love interest from the start.

Again, false. Sasuke was never meant to be created and was just a product of the editor's suggestion. Hinata, while indeed was a "love interest," was never was going to be anymore important than a village girl who was in love him him.

5). He did this early drawing that supports NaruHina. One with Naruto in the background with Hinata in a dress. Complete and total proof for NaruHina.

Yet the chapter breaks with NS in them don't count? Yeah, double standard for the win.

6). NaruSaku is the red herring pairing, NaruHina/SasuSaku is the true pairing.

I am not even gonna dignify this one with a response. Are these all from the same person? Geez, they criticize you yet are completely worse than you when it comes to stuff like this.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 May 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I'll bite, let's see what my counter arguments are.



This is where I would ask them "So if NH didn't become canon, but NS did, this would not bother you?" Depending on their answer is depending on what kind of fan they are. If they retort with a "That would be stupid of Kishi to do that" I would retort with the same thing they said.



Okay...well kishi never elaborated on MinaKushi's development. Not to say there "isn't any." We got a brief history lesson on them only highlighting the more important scenes, but that doesn't mean there is "no development." I think people need to understand what the NS mean by development. It's not just "how many interactions they have." It's "How have those moments change the development as a whole." What we do know about Minato and Kushina is that their situation was not much different from Naruto's and Sakura's and they ended up together cause Minato saved her and loved her fro who she was. That's why she loved him back.

Just because it is a brief, doesn't mean it isn't important.



I really wish people would stop going to this one. They want to believe Kishi said this, but when he says the confession was to show how much of a heroine Sakura really is, they ignore it completely. Even though Sakura's confession was a very heroic thing to do or try to do.



Again, false. Sasuke was never meant to be created and was just a product of the editor's suggestion. Hinata, while indeed was a "love interest," was never was going to be anymore important than a village girl who was in love him him.



Yet the chapter breaks with NS in them don't count? Yeah, double standard for the win.



I am not even gonna dignify this one with a response. Are these all from the same person? Geez, they criticize you yet are completely worse than you when it comes to stuff like this.

About the first bold, it's important to note that heroine part came from Kishi himself, not editor. Editor suggested a rival and then Kishi thought himself that he needed a heroine, so enter Sakura. I'm not saying Sakura was already made back in pilot, but since he thought of it, it does say something. Also, as for Hinata, she was just going to be there and that's it. No plans but being a village girl. I have to check on this again and it never said anything that he had plans with her like being big role and such. She was just made and that's it. The story was going to focus only on Naruto and Kakashi, but the manga would have end faster than you can say a cancelled Shounen in first run.

Second bold, what do you mean? What chapter break?

[TrueSacrifice]

Hey, guys. I haven't been here for a while lol. And I'm back from just getting violently assaulted from a NaruHina fan on YT. And for what? 'Cause I said Kishimoto would be a completely failed writer if he made NaruHina/SasuSaku canon instead of NaruSaku and my faith in him would be lost. This person said the following to me:

1). What kind of of Naruto fan am I if I call Kishi a failed writer just because of pairings? Clearly, this person thinks I read for pairing when I don't. I was just making a observation of a lot of Kishi's forcedness lately.

2). "NaruSaku fans are hypocrites if they accuse NaruHina of 'lack of development' yet ship MinaKushi when it was also suffering from 'lack of development'. Kushina hated him, then fell in love with him. No development."

3). Kishimoto said in an interview that Hinata would make a better heroine than Sakura.

4). Sakura was never meant to be created along with Sasuke. Hinata was the love interest from the start.

5). He did this early drawing that supports NaruHina. One with Naruto in the background with Hinata in a dress. Complete and total proof for NaruHina.

6). NaruSaku is the red herring pairing, NaruHina/SasuSaku is the true pairing.

I've already countered all these points, I just wanted to share them with you here. I seriously find it almost laughable that I was able to deeply offend a NaruHina fan so badly by calling NaruHina bad writing. It's because it's true, it's not good writing at all this late in the story. It's just ... this fan.

Make the one with the most development since the beginning the red herring. Development is for suckers! You sly dog Kishimoto.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

About the first bold, it's important to note that heroine part came from Kishi himself, not editor. Editor suggested a rival and then Kishi thought himself that he needed a heroine, so enter Sakura. I'm not saying Sakura was already made back in pilot, but since he thought of it, it does say something. Also, as for Hinata, she was just going to be there and that's it. No plans but being a village girl. I have to check on this again and it never said anything that he had plans with her like being big role and such. She was just made and that's it. The story was going to focus only on Naruto and Kakashi, but the manga would have end faster than you can say a cancelled Shounen in first run.

Second bold, what do you mean? What chapter break?

I remember him doing a research about rivalry, looks like he put everything on it, even Sakura itself, when Naruto thinks about Sasuke and when he say "you always had everything" and then there's a lfashback with a lot of girls praising him and Sakura there.
I think her concept was meant for adding more reasons for Naruto/Sasuke rivalry.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 May 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[redragon88]

I would reply others but I have to address this one. I believe first love is the hardest love to let go, especially if you have nowhere to go. I'm not saying that you should keep loving that person if you have no other direction. I'm just saying her mind is saying that there's no love for her. That said her love did start off quickly, not from mutual developments. For example, there are shows that they are only friends. When the girl finds love with another guy, she will be into it because it's the first. Then after a fail attempt, the girl will feel hopeless that there's no love for her like "Maybe I'm not capable of love." That's when the best friend comes in cheering her up, only to find themselves loving each other.

Sakura and Ino are in the same situation, but let's focus solely on Sakura. Sakura has been given interpretation by third party perspectives, that it never fully addressed because they always get cut out or it's one of those moments a couple are in their world. That's why I said it's way more effective if a person tells Sakura that she loves Naruto, rather than Naruto loves her. It will cause her to look over her life and perhaps draw the conclusion. Instead, we have her continuing to fight her feelings. She has prioritized Naruto first, so it's seems like we are drawing near. Also, if only Naruto would talk to her as more than friend or something that makes him look like a man that will carry her, then Sakura's heart will be effected. PoaL had a huge effect on her, because she recapped chapter 3 and realized how wrong she was and how much Naruto truly cares. Now, if something similar happens again, I think she may come to conclusion that she's in love with him.

Not really sure if you're trying to agree with me or give a different argument of the situation.

I'm just too curious about how Kishi will solve Sakura's feelings. Was Chapter 540 just to once again clarify Sakura's love for Sasuke, or is it meant to be a plot device to later resurface? I really want to know regarding that.

Could it be that since she's not able to think nothing of Sasuke like she wanted to in the Summit arc that she simply regressed to her romantic love for Sasuke in Chapter 540 since it's the only connection she has with him? I'm really hoping that turns out to be the case since anything else just might feel out of place.

It's fine that Sakura has problems letting go of her feelings for Sasuke, but I hope that she doesn't have the mentality of still wanting to be with him. An initial problem that I had when 540 first came is that that way I saw it Sakura rejected lover nin because she wants to be with Sasuke but she can't because he's bad. I felt that it greatly cheapened her confession to Naruto because that would imply that she was just choosing him as consolation since Sasuke was evil.

I have come to realize that you can see 469 and 540 in a different perspective, that in which Sakura simply has trouble understanding her feelings and coming to a right conclusion for them, but the low blow that came from first impressions caused bad memories kinda hard to forget.

[James S Cassidy]

About the first bold, it's important to note that heroine part came from Kishi himself, not editor. Editor suggested a rival and then Kishi thought himself that he needed a heroine, so enter Sakura. I'm not saying Sakura was already made back in pilot, but since he thought of it, it does say something. Also, as for Hinata, she was just going to be there and that's it. No plans but being a village girl. I have to check on this again and it never said anything that he had plans with her like being big role and such. She was just made and that's it. The story was going to focus only on Naruto and Kakashi, but the manga would have end faster than you can say a cancelled Shounen in first run.

Second bold, what do you mean? What chapter break?

Yeah, I forgot about the "heroine" part, but you are right that hinata was never seen as a heroine in the original plans. As I said, Sasuke was an editor idea. While not directly, as you said he just suggested a rival, Sasuke was the product of that idea so.

I do know for a fact though that Hinata was just supposed to be a village girl who has a crush on Naruto. I remember that especially. I should not have used the word "love interest" as that implies importance, but I did put it in quotations so...whatever.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I remember him doing a research about rivalry, looks like he put everything on it, even Sakura itself, when Naruto thinks about Sasuke and when he say "you always had everything" and then there's a lfashback with a lot of girls praising him and Sakura there.
I think her concept was meant for adding more reasons for Naruto/Sasuke rivalry.

Yeah, that's what I think too. To me, I feel SS means Naruto still didn't overcome Sasuke. Again, not making Sakura as a trophy, but you get what I mean.

Not really sure if you're trying to agree with me or give a different argument of the situation.

I'm just too curious about how Kishi will solve Sakura's feelings. Was Chapter 540 just to once again clarify Sakura's love for Sasuke, or is it meant to be a plot device to later resurface? I really want to know regarding that.

Could it be that since she's not able to think nothing of Sasuke like she wanted to in the Summit arc that she simply regressed to her romantic love for Sasuke in Chapter 540 since it's the only connection she has with him? I'm really hoping that turns out to be the case since anything else just might feel out of place.

It's fine that Sakura has problems letting go of her feelings for Sasuke, but I hope that she doesn't have the mentality of still wanting to be with him. An initial problem that I had when 540 first came is that that way I saw it Sakura rejected lover nin because she wants to be with Sasuke but she can't because he's bad. I felt that it greatly cheapened her confession to Naruto because that would imply that she was just choosing him as consolation since Sasuke was evil.

I have come to realize that you can see 469 and 540 in a different perspective, that in which Sakura simply has trouble understanding her feelings and coming to a right conclusion for them, but the low blow that came from first impressions caused bad memories kinda hard to forget.

Oh sorry, I was agreeing with you. I just want to add more to it. I woke up and saw this so yeah, sorry.

Yeah, I forgot about the "heroine" part, but you are right that hinata was never seen as a heroine in the original plans. As I said, Sasuke was an editor idea. While not directly, as you said he just suggested a rival, Sasuke was the product of that idea so.

I do know for a fact though that Hinata was just supposed to be a village girl who has a crush on Naruto. I remember that especially. I should not have used the word "love interest" as that implies importance, but I did put it in quotations so...whatever.

Well, using love interest means that the main character destined romance target, but that's just me. Yeah, I know you put in quotation. I guess I was removing the sarcasm, so sorry on my part.

[James S Cassidy]

Yeah, that's what I think too. To me, I feel SS means Naruto still didn't overcome Sasuke. Again, not making Sakura as a trophy, but you get what I mean.

I have come to a radical conclusion that the only reason why SS still exists is because everybody "thinks" it does (fans included). If you know what I mean. Even Naruto supposedly believes it does which is why he is pushing Sakura away. Not that it really is

Well, using love interest means that the main character destined romance target, but that's just me. Yeah, I know you put in quotation. I guess I was removing the sarcasm, so sorry on my part.

No problem.

[T XD]

2). "NaruSaku fans are hypocrites if they accuse NaruHina of 'lack of development' yet ship MinaKushi when it was also suffering from 'lack of development'. Kushina hated him, then fell in love with him. No development."

This caught my attention. MK is shown with a brief history of their relationship when they were young. How in the world can he/she put NH in the same category of MK by all means.

They're characters who were alive and not characters who are progressing with the manga to have development if they're to be a couple by the end.

I have come to a radical conclusion that the only reason why SS still exists is because everybody "thinks" it does (fans included). If you know what I mean. Even Naruto supposedly believes it does which is why he is pushing Sakura away. Not that it really is

Yup. Exactly.

Edited by T XD, 06 May 2013 - 05:14 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I have come to a radical conclusion that the only reason why SS still exists is because everybody "thinks" it does (fans included). If you know what I mean. Even Naruto supposedly believes it does which is why he is pushing Sakura away. Not that it really is



No problem.

That's true. It's odd because there are sources that say it's been dead, but we think otherwise. I think we are blinded but let's see what happens. I mean I have met people who said that SS is been gone, it's just that we're looking it wrong but we'll see. Now, not just from the book, but lately, NH seems like it's meant to be inspiration, nothing serious as romance. I mean 615 does feel rather encouragement talk than together, you and I, we are one. Maybe that's why NS got all the drama because that's real relationship development with issues roaming around. You know how in movie two argues and split apart but you know in the end, they'll get together. That's NS at the moment. While they don't hate each other, they haven't settle their feelings for each other.

[T XD]

That's true. It's odd because there are sources that say it's been dead, but we think otherwise. I think we are blinded but let's see what happens. I mean I have met people who said that SS is been gone, it's just that we're looking it wrong but we'll see. Now, not just from the book, but lately, NH seems like it's meant to be inspiration, nothing serious as romance. I mean 615 does feel rather encouragement talk than together, you and I, we are one. Maybe that's why NS got all the drama because that's real relationship development with issues roaming around. You know how in movie two argues and split apart but you know in the end, they'll get together. That's NS at the moment. While they don't hate each other, they haven't settle their feelings for each other.

It's true. We think otherwise cause there's doubt and fear from what we are seeing, especially as in lately. Facts are in front of us but we still don't want to cause we want to see in the manga. Maybe the manga won't show something like that. Maybe the manga will get straight to NS being canon. There's a little possibility too that maybe it will be implied.

Edited by T XD, 06 May 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's true. We think otherwise cause there's doubt and fear from what we are seeing, especially as in lately. Facts are in front of us but we still don't want to cause we want to see in the manga. Maybe the manga won't show something like that. Maybe the manga will get straight to NS being canon. There's a little possibility too that maybe it will be implied.

I guess so. Well, time to play my redundancy card: time will tell.

[James S Cassidy]

That's true. It's odd because there are sources that say it's been dead, but we think otherwise. I think we are blinded but let's see what happens. I mean I have met people who said that SS is been gone, it's just that we're looking it wrong but we'll see. Now, not just from the book, but lately, NH seems like it's meant to be inspiration, nothing serious as romance. I mean 615 does feel rather encouragement talk than together, you and I, we are one. Maybe that's why NS got all the drama because that's real relationship development with issues roaming around. You know how in movie two argues and split apart but you know in the end, they'll get together. That's NS at the moment. While they don't hate each other, they haven't settle their feelings for each other.

Exactly. Like I said, it happens in real life too, but in real life it also sometimes doesn't have a happy ending. I do want NS to have a happy ending because well it's good to have stories end on high notes. I am personally getting a little tired of the bittersweet endings in stories now. When every story starts to have one, it gets stale.

That idea of 615 is how I saw it, but like I said hundreds of time I just did not like the way it was executed.

SS being dead...it really feels like it is still alive because people push in the idea that it is. I knew SS died when Sasuke tried killing Sakura. That's when I knew it has officially died. I can't see SS getting together after that one even if Sasuke is redeemed.

It's true. We think otherwise cause there's doubt and fear from what we are seeing, especially as in lately. Facts are in front of us but we still don't want to cause we want to see in the manga. Maybe the manga won't show something like that. Maybe the manga will get straight to NS being canon. There's a little possibility too that maybe it will be implied.

yeah....but some fans want to "play it safe." So to speak.

[Inferno180]

Lol
How can you talk developpement about a flashback ?
Kishimoto just shows a summary of MinaKushi in 4 pages.
Of course he will not show all the ambiguity, hints and other stuff. 4 pages for 20 years (or less) is not enough.

Sad arguments again from the opposite fandom...

Actually there is a simple argument in this flashback, Minato and Kushina's relation is summed up very quickly, but in those events which two characters do they have a similar background to?

Sad thing is, some fans try to justify anything unrelated as proof, even stuff like interviews or concept art, but thats the idea, they forget either ignore or are unaware of the full dialogue of these interviews or try to utilize concept art as justification, but thats just it, concept art is for concepts. It was an original idea but never made the cut, so if Hinata was made to be the heroine but was forced to a side character role and is now a minor character, these arguments are not going to cut it.

The base idea is just simple, screentime. The characters are like Kishi's toolset, but which girl did he use to build Naruto's development with most? Sakura. There were many many many times he could have put Hinata with him but he did not. This goes all the way back to the same reason he did not use Hinata for any other part beyond the chunin exams in part 1 and for anything until pain or 615 in part 2. He just did not use her out of story and design. There is no justification in trying to make a character seem important or critical when they were absent for so many chapters. Hinata lacks importance for 332 chapters, that is practically 6 or so years in real time. She is not an important character. This is the same reason many NH fans hated RtN, because it was Sakura, not Hinata. Even then Hinata's only role in any movie was bonds but it was so short even there, all she did was have her first line towards Sasuke, that is it.

I have listened to fans make these absurd statements:

"Why is Sakura hugging Naruto? By right that should be Hinata! That pink haired *****!"

"Why doesn't team 8 get their own arc? Team 10 just had one?"

"How come we get stuck with Sakura in RtN Kishi? Use Hinata."

"Hinata is the heroine, kishi intended it from the start and said it in that interview."

"NaruHina is going to happen because our fanbase is the biggest, 615 was proof of kishi listening."

"They got RtN we have the manga."

"Sakura is useless as always, look at Hinata do everything."

"Minakush is a NaruHina parallel, look at how they were both captured by kumo nin (is this something to be proud of? didn't Hinata's father save her anyways)

"Hinata is like Minato and Naruto is like Kushina"

"Hinata is like Hashirama and Sakura is like Madara" - this takes the title of most insane claim ever.

'Naruto no longer loving Sakura is a good thing for the series, serves that flat chest right for manipulating him, I wish Sasuke killed her!"

My response to these: This is proof of me losing faith in the fanbase, not kishi's writing but the fanbase, some stuff is so obvious but then we get these insane fans who cannot tell the reasons for why they even spread this stuff around. Its not reasoning, its a fad disease, a mob mentality, they try to justify this stuff yet never have the right reasons or evidence to back it up, if they could truely prove anything they say then it would be in their favor, but they hardly get a good one off.

This is what makes us almost just want to Most of the time, its not even worth debating, not because we have the info, because why bother with those not even willing to hear your side of the argument when they just jump to conclusions. At this point, I'm convinced that the majority of those who like NH, they make it so you are considered a fan if you support their pairing or hate NS. If you do anything against them or support NS, they treat is as a crime worthy of death basically.

[T XD]

yeah....but some fans want to "play it safe." So to speak.

If it will go by seeing underneath the underneath, the result won't be a joy.