54216 replies to this topic

[Shashank95]

I've been dealing with brainless people (trying not to be rude) for the past 4 days.

 

My brain's lost a considerable amount of braincells i think   

 

All people do is call Sakura useless for freezing up and when she attacked Madara, THey call her stupid. There is no changing the haters i guess.

 

Am I really that famous?

 

 

It was an awesome read though   

[Nostradamus]

Yeah, I can't say Kishi is using "love" loosely, but I can say he's doing it as a category, which can break into others. This is why we became more specific as of late. Sadly, today's people still see it as one thing and one thing only.

Best example is Hinata. We all know Hinata loves Naruto, this can't be denied. However like I said hundreds of times Hinata loves Naruto as one loves a champion. He is all she could not be. But people keep insisting that her love for Naruto is on a romantic level. 

 

 

It was an awesome read though   

Thank you.

Edited by Nostradamus, 19 May 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[Shashank95]

And people still believe that 615 is NH canon material. Goodness Gracious   

[Angelus87]

And people still believe that 615 is NH canon material. Goodness Gracious   

it s normal because there s no other moments for NH. last was in pain arc

Edited by Angelus87, 19 May 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Shashank95]

it s normal because there s no other moments for NH. last was in pain arc

Yeah, That's true.

 

631 trashed 615, 673 trashed NH and yet they cling to 615 

[manbeast101]

I too think the bench scene will be brought up again. And hope Kushina somehow makes an appearance and meets Sakura.

 

A bit off topic, but I have to get this off my chest, I wonder if Kishi is ever going to reveal one of the greatest mysteries in the Naruto series: what Kakashi's face looks like under that mask?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Best example is Hinata. We all know Hinata loves Naruto, this can't be denied. However like I said hundreds of times Hinata loves Naruto as one loves a champion. He is all she could not be. But people keep insisting that her love for Naruto is on a romantic level.

I thought you would say something different but saying her love is the same as "someome who loves a champion" and discarding it by claiming it's not on romantic level is false.
Hinata's love is on romantic level regardless the setup it is, she admires Naruto but Kishimoto never protraited as a type of love who's not romantic, we saw her being infatuated by holding his hand, her trying to sacrifice her life twice for him, confessing and etc...
If it's not romantic then i dont know what is romantic love anymore.
I dont support NH because of she's one dimensional towards her love but i dont try to disregard what she feels for Naruto as something it's not romantic love because it is.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 May 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[Shashank95]

I too think the bench scene will be brought up again. And hope Kushina somehow makes an appearance and meets Sakura.

 

A bit off topic, but I have to get this off my chest, I wonder if Kishi is ever going to reveal one of the greatest mysteries in the Naruto series: what Kakashi's face looks like under that mask?

I read somewhere that Kishi is afraid to reveal Kakashi's face fearing that he would disappoint the fans. I don't know if it's true or not though

 

I seriously need to see Sakura and KUshina interact with one another.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well to be honest, what do you expect? It's like removing a mask from any Gundam rival/villain. You expect half man, half bear, half pig?

I see what you mean, Nostradamus. I agree.

[Gravenimage]

Nostradamus@ agree with you a 100%. What Hinata feels for Naruto is one big hero worthship, its just admiration. Hinata sees him as someone she wants to become the perfect role model, from zero to hero. More proof of Hinata's feelings in every relationship chart from the data books she has an arrow pointing towards Naruto with the word" admiration". Yet the fandom ignores this and claims that Kishi didn't wrote the data books so its not canon. But if she truly loves Naruto romantically wouldn't her arrow have the word" suki" which means like/love just like Sakura's arrow on Sasuke? Yet the fandom ignores it thinking Hinata's love for Naruto is pure and romantic.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Nostradamus@ agree with you a 100%. What Hinata feels for Naruto is one big hero worthship, its just admiration. Hinata sees him as someone she wants to become the perfect role model, from zero to hero. More proof of Hinata's feelings in every relationship chart from the data books she has an arrow pointing towards Naruto with the word" admiration". Yet the fandom ignores this and claims that Kishi didn't wrote the data books so its not canon. But if she truly loves Naruto romantically wouldn't her arrow have the word" suki" which means like/love just like Sakura's arrow on Sasuke? Yet the fandom ignores it thinking Hinata's love for Naruto is pure and romantic.

Databook is outdated, the third one says admiration but it was like that during part 1, part 2 however showed it has love afterwards.
Hinata's love for Naruto is romantic but i dont see the point of trying to downplay her feelings to prove a certain point sounds like bashing.
It's the same thing with Naruto, his love for Sakura is based on a childish crush during the entire part 1 and yet i dont see anyone downplaying his feelings for Sakura because of it.

Also your logic is twisted Sakura has the arrow "suki" towards Sasuke on all databooks and yet her love is purely based on a childish crush without any strong foundations.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 May 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[Nostradamus]

I thought you would say something different but saying her love is the same as "someome who loves a champion" and discarding it by claiming it's not on romantic level is false.
Hinata's love is on romantic level regardless the setup it is, she admires Naruto but Kishimoto never protraited as a type of love who's not romantic, we saw her being infatuated by holding his hand, her trying to sacrifice her life twice for him, confessing and etc...
If it's not romantic then i dont know what is romantic love anymore.
I dont support NH because of she's one dimensional towards her love but i dont try to disregard what she feels for Naruto as something it's not romantic love because it is.

Well sorry but it's not. In my rants I stated that Hinata loves Naruto as one loves a champion and Naruto is her Superman. Both statements refer to admiration. Naruto was and still is her idol, he gave her the strength to push forward, not directly because we saw that she just watched him from afar. But she took strength from watching Naruto pushing forward and never giving up and that "changed" her. However this is where the problem occurs she mistaken her feelings for Naruto, and that's not just her it's also her fans and a big chunk of the Naruto fandom. This is why I said I hope Hinata will open her eyes, because I want her to realize that what she feels for Naruto is just admiration. She thinks she loves Naruto romantically but she doesn't. It's just that Naruto helped her so much that thinks she loves him on a romantic level.

 

Edit. True the databooks are outdated, however the information in them still has value.

Edited by Nostradamus, 19 May 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well sorry but it's not. In my rants I stated that Hinata loves Naruto as one loves a champion and Naruto is her Superman. Both statements refer to admiration. Naruto was and still is her idol, he gave her the strength to push forward, not directly because we saw that she just watched him from afar. But she took strength from watching Naruto pushing forward and never giving up and that "changed" her. However this is where the problem occurs she mistaken her feelings for Naruto, and that's not just her it's also her fans and a big chunk of the Naruto fandom. This is why I said I hope Hinata will open her eyes, because I want her to realize that what she feels for Naruto is just admiration. She thinks she loves Naruto romantically but she doesn't. It's just that Naruto helped her so much that thinks she loves him on a romantic level.

"i want her to realize"...


Anyway, you doesnt prove your point that her love for Naruto is not romantic because Kishi portrays it as it is.
It doesn matter what the foundations are but how it's portraited, you're bringing the foundations of Hinata's love and telling me it's not romantic and wanting her to realize it.
(Wanting to sacrifice your own life for someome you love twice doesnt make sense with someome who has some admiration towards Naruto)

I dont see how this disregards what she feels for Naruto as romantic.

"You're missing the fact that she pursues Naruto romantically, she confessed her love for him, later tried to sacrifice her life twice and most importantly desired to be at his side romantically speaking off on the chapter "path to radiance".

Most important this logic can be applied to Sakura when it comes to her love, Kishi portrays it as romantic love but we all know that she has only a chidish crush and doesnt have strong foundations.
Rock Lee also loves Sakura romantically speaking off which is show recently when he goes jealous when Sakura confesses to Naruto.
It's still romantic love."

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 May 2014 - 03:43 PM.

[narusaku256]

Databook is outdated, the third one says admiration but it was like that during part 1, part 2 however showed it has love afterwards.
Hinata's love for Naruto is romantic but i dont see the point of trying to downplay her feelings to prove a certain point sounds like bashing.
It's the same thing with Naruto, his love for Sakura is based on a childish crush during the entire part 1 and yet i dont see anyone downplaying his feelings for Sakura because of it.

Also your logic is twisted Sakura has the arrow "suki" towards Sasuke on all databooks and yet her love is purely based on a childish crush without any strong foundations.

No offence Dark, but I tend to disagree with you here. Even if we go by your logic, Naruto's crush did transform into love. The things he did just to keep Sakura safe, no one does does it out of simple crush. Though not for Sakura but Naruto genuinely loved her. Naruto loved Sakura despite the flaws she had. He loved her for her and not for what she was or what she could become. It has always been like this. Naruto never admired Sakura, like Hinata did to Naruto. Everytime when Hinata's feelings are brought up we see nothing but admiration. If we have to play a devil's advocate, Hinata has always stated how watching Naruto she grew up or how Naruto changed her and that's how everyone looked at him. He had influenced everyone, Kiba and Rock Lee in particular. Even Sakura grew up watching Naruto, but unlike Hinata their interactions were different. NH is SS on a much much milder scale. Sasuke doesn't care about Sakura at all, but Naruto does care about Hinata but as a friend, as a comrade and not someone as a love interest. Just like Sakura who saw Sasuke as someone perfect, Hinata is seeing Naruto as someone perfect or to put it in a better sense, she sees him as a role model. No one here is downplaying Hinata's emotions, it is just that we are trying to prove that it is more of an admiration sort of thing and not love. She admires Naruto just like everyone, however since she took Naruto as a motivation when she was disrespected or used to just give up/in her difficult times, she thinks she has developed romantic feelings for him. Like Sakura never saw Sasuke for what he really was, Hinata never saw Naruto for his flaws but Sakura has seen Naruto in his ups as well as his downs. I agree to a point that Hinata supported Naruto but again if you be a devil's advocate, its more correct to say that she believed in Naruto and she never thought of Naruto as someone who was weak. An example of this can be found out in Naruto vs Kiba chunin exam fight, wherein Kiba downgraded Naruto for being weak but Hinata opposed to that saying 'You are wrong Kiba-kun' and so on. I need not tell you what is the major difference between NS and NH interactions. That's why from whatever Hinata says about Naruto, it seems that she admires Naruto and uses his example to grow up and this what she mistakes it for being love. Whereas from Sakura's words it seems that she cares too deeply for Naruto and she is ready to sacrifice anything for his sake and his dream which is apparent to us. Hinata doesn't even know what Naruto intends to do or anything. She just likes Naruto and wants to be with him or perhaps stand equal to him, that's it. But Sakura is someone who willing to sacrifice even herself for Naruto's dream and is ready to stand up against anyone who comes in front of that. If she can oppose Sasuke for Naruto, she can literally stand up against anyone, no matter how powerful he is! That's a major difference between NS and NH.

Edited by narusaku256, 19 May 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[Angelus87]

"i want her to realize"...


Anyway, you doesnt prove your point that her love for Naruto is not romantic because Kishi portrays it as it is.
It doesn matter what the foundations are but how it's portraited, you're bringing the foundations of Hinata's love and telling me it's not romantic and wanting her to realize it.
(Wanting to sacrifice your own life for someome you love twice doesnt make sense with someome who has some admiration towards Naruto)

I dont see how this disregards what she feels for Naruto as romantic.

"You're missing the fact that she pursues Naruto romantically, she confessed her love for him, later tried to sacrifice her life twice and most importantly desired to be at his side romantically speaking off on the chapter "path to radiance".

Most important this logic can be applied to Sakura when it comes to her love, Kishi portrays it as romantic love but we all know that she has only a chidish crush and doesnt have strong foundations.
Rock Lee also loves Sakura romantically speaking off which is show recently when he goes jealous when Sakura confesses to Naruto.
It's still romantic love."

i never negate fact that Hinata love Naruto, Let s just say that main problem in NH s  that Hinata feelings was show one time and she confess to him. Fact that there was  nothing that follow this and Naruto never show interest or maby conviction to settled that matter with Hinata.She also didnt try to get answer from Naruto. That s why NH stayed in friend zone. Well of course we can say that Naruto feelings to Sakura was reason why Hinata never wanted answer. She knew Naruto love Sakura anyway

Edited by Angelus87, 19 May 2014 - 04:36 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

No offence Dark, but I tend to disagree with you here. Even if we go by your logic, Naruto's crush did transform into love. The things he did just to keep Sakura safe, no one does does it out of simple crush.

This is where i get you, neither the things Hinata did to Naruto is something we can say it's simply admiration.
Also many of the things he did to Sakura he also did to his other friends, the series never showed Naruto doing something to Sakura that made her be viewed as special.
Look at recently with Obito, Kishimoto compared Obito's Rin with Neji.
Naruto was never a player on the relationship with Sakura.
 

Though not for Sakura but Naruto genuinely loved her. Naruto loved Sakura despite the flaws she had. He loved her for her and not for what she was or what she could become. It has always been like this. Naruto never admired Sakura, like Hinata did to Naruto. Everytime when Hinata's feelings are brought up we see nothing but admiration.

I didnt knew that wanting to sacrifice your life for someome is admiration, wanting to be at someome's side romantically and etc...
You're once again bringing the foundations.
 

If we have to play a devil's advocate, Hinata has always stated how watching Naruto she grew up or how Naruto changed her and that's how everyone looked at him. He had influenced everyone, Kiba and Rock Lee in particular. Even Sakura grew up watching Naruto

Kushina said that Minato changed her, i dont see the point here.
 

, but unlike Hinata their interactions were different. NH is SS on a much much milder scale. Sasuke doesn't care about Sakura at all, but Naruto does care about Hinata but as a friend, as a comrade and not someone as a love interest. Just like Sakura who saw Sasuke as someone perfect, Hinata is seeing Naruto as someone perfect or to put it in a better sense, she sees him as a role model.

She gains resolve from her feelings for Naruto on the contrast that on the same chapter we saw Sakura depressed because of Sasuke.
She took Naruto's example, it was the foundation which she says it on her confession.
She says she loves him because of that, i dont see anything wrong on how it downplays what she feels.
 

No one here is downplaying Hinata's emotions, it is just that we are trying to prove that it is more of an admiration sort of thing and not love. She admires Naruto just like everyone, however since she took Naruto as a motivation when she was disrespected or used to just give up/in her difficult times, she thinks she has developed romantic feelings for him. Like Sakura she never saw Naruto for her flaws but Sakura has seen Naruto in his ups as well as his downs. I agree to a point that Hinata supported Naruto but again if you be a devil's advocate, its more correct to say that she believed in Naruto and she never thought of Naruto as someone who was weak. An example of this can be found out in Naruto vs Kiba chunin exam fight, wherein Kiba downgraded Naruto for being weak but Hinata opposed to that saying 'You are wrong Kiba-kun' and so on. I need not tell you what is the major difference between NS and NH interactions. That's why from whatever Hinata says about Naruto, it seems that she admires Naruto and uses his example to grow up and this what she mistakes it for being love. Whereas from Sakura's words it seems that she cares too deeply for Naruto and she is ready to sacrifice anything for his sake and his dream which is apparent to us. Hinata doesn't even know what Naruto intends to do or anything. She just likes Naruto and wants to be with him or perhaps stand equal to him, that's it. But Sakura is someone who willing to sacrifice even herself for Naruto's dream and is ready to stand up against anyone who comes in front of that. If she can oppose Sasuke for Naruto, she can literally stand up against anyone, no matter how powerful he is! That's a major difference between NS and NH.

Sorry but nostradamus downplayed saying that she doesnt love Naruto romantically(nostradamus) when the story shows the contrary, as for the rest i wont comment because i'm not talking about NS buildup.
As for "Naruto's crush become love".
Naruto still had a crush on Sakura based on his reasons to love her which was stated on chapter 3, it's treated as a genuine love and it remained as a strong love all-round it wasnt weaker neither strong, Naruto's love for Sakura is almost the same as Sakura's love for Sasuke but with reasons and not being selfish.
It was stated since chapter 3 as love, and it remained as that since the begining of the story, it didnt made stronger neithe lessened it already started strong.
The difference is that he was a bit selfish and he stopped being like that but however he did basically the opposite of someome who's interested in Sakura, he kept distance from her, hide his feelings for her and made sure to turn all his hints into something like a joke and Sakura only perceived Naruto's feelings because Sai told her this.

As to finish i'll agree to disagree because for me it's all romantic love and their foundations are irrelevant.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 May 2014 - 04:47 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, regardless, we shouldn't take any too serious of NH with all due respect. That's just me, feel agree to disagree, I just see it as a bonus.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 19 May 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Well, regardless, we shouldn't take any too serious of NH with all due respect. That's just me, feel agree to disagree, I just see it as a bonus.

I dont take NH serious just dont believe it's just admiration, i think that her admiration made her grow to love Naruto.
The only difference is that she needs to accept Naruto's happiness if he choses another girl because she resolved her life around "being with Naruto".
She just needs to learn to not be selfish and respect his feelings.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 May 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[narusaku256]

This is where i get you, neither the things Hinata did to Naruto is something we can say it's simply admiration.
Also many of the things he did to Sakura he also did to his other friends, the series never showed Naruto doing something to Sakura that made her be viewed as special.
Look at recently with Obito, Kishimoto compared Obito's Rin with Neji.
Naruto was never a player on the relationship with Sakura.
 
I didnt knew that wanting to sacrifice your life for someome is admiration, wanting to be at someome's side romantically and etc...
You're once again bringing the foundations.
 
Kushina said that Minato changed her, i dont see the point here.
 
She gains resolve from her feelings for Naruto on the contrast that on the same chapter we saw Sakura depressed because of Sasuke.
She took Naruto's example, it was the foundation which she says it on her confession.
She says she loves him because of that, i dont see anything wrong on how it downplays what she feels.
 
Sorry but nostradamus downplayed saying that she doesnt love Naruto romantically(nostradamus) when the story shows the contrary, as for the rest i wont comment because i'm not talking about NS buildup.
As for "Naruto's crush become love".
Naruto still had a crush on Sakura based on his reasons to love her which was stated on chapter 3, it's treated as a genuine love and it remained as a strong love all-round it wasnt weaker neither strong, Naruto's love for Sakura is almost the same as Sakura's love for Sasuke but with stronger foundations and not being selfish.
It was stated since chapter 3 as love, and it remained as that since the begining of the story, it didnt made stronger neithe lessened it already started strong.
The difference is that he was a bit selfish and he stopped being like that but however he did basically the opposite of someome who's interested in Sakura, he kept distance from her, hide his feelings for her and made sure to turn all his hints into something like a joke and Sakura only perceived Naruto's feelings because Sai told her this.

As to finish i'll agree to disagree because for me it's all romantic love and their foundations are irrelevant.

Well, maybe you are right. At the most, I can accept that maybe she indeed loved Naruto. But I don't think it was strong as the love which Naruto has for Sakura or Sakura has for Naruto or she ever saw Naruto for what he really was. Also, I refuse to accept that Naruto's love for Sakura remains unchanged. But as you said, agree to disagree.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I dont take NH serious just dont believe it's just admiration, i think that her admiration made her grow to love Naruto.
The only difference is that she needs to accept Naruto's happiness if he choses another girl because she resolved her life around "being with Naruto".
She just needs to learn to not be selfish and respect his feelings.

Well I do understand what you mean. I just think the level of love isn't as strong, so it's not much of a deal. She seems like a girl who sees her love with another girl, she will be fine, no any drawbacks. Naruto, on the other hand, was hurt no matter how he tried to accept it. Respects it but if you feel pain, that's romantic love.