19964 replies to this topic

[Inferno180]

Bolded: that's the thing, i feel NS relationship was built on a foundation of guilt and sympathy from sakura towards Naruto. which is not a good thing at all

NS is not based on sympathy, its based on mutual growth, apprication, and devotion to each other.

Sakura did make fun of Naruto and acted mean, but after spending time as a team and learning his devotion to her at the end of part 1 and the nine tails secret at the start of part 2, she does the true friend thing, being there for him in the present when she was not in the past, not out of sympathy because she really sees him as a close friend. I mean remember, Kushina herself made fun of Minato but after a given amount of time and being rescued she came to love him. Many many anti-NS fans always miss this, Kushina did hate Minato and made fun of him, but she could not change the past, what she did afterwards when she came to love him, she supported him and helped him in any way she could. Kushina could not change the past but it was her present feelings of trust and devotion to Minato that made her his wife. Sakura is in the same situation, she made fun of Naruto and cannot change the past but makes up for the prior treatment by being his friend after several events.

Remember, if NS is based on sympathy then perhaps we should be saying MinaKush is as well, I mean both have a similar event backgrounds.

[T XD]

What i'm saying is their entire relationship started via guilt/sympathy when sakura said she would be nicer to Naruto. IMO i would rather not know that person if i found out he/she became friends with be only because of guilt/pity it's a horrible reason for starting a friendship

Their friendship started when she looked at the past and realized that she was wrong about him. No sympathy. She realized her wrong and started to be a true friend to him.

[HauntedCake]

Their friendship started when she looked at the past and realized that she was wrong about him. No sympathy. She realized her wrong and started to be a true friend to him.

Maybe not sympathy but definatly guilt. Not because she genuinely wanted to be friends with him but ratehr out of guilt

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Maybe not sympathy but definatly guilt. Not because she genuinely wanted to be friends with him but ratehr out of guilt

Not like that it started like this but it was just something she said out of her mouth then later because of his determination and othe stuff they started became friends because on chapter 4 she was still mean to him, she even says that he is the person she hated the most.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 May 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Honestly, no. The way I see it, that would be like me wishing I'd had different parents. But if I'd had different parents, I wouldn't be here to complain about the parents I have.

It's the same with Kishimoto and Sakura. Sakura is his character. She came from his mind and imagination, and all the things we love about her are because of the way he has written her. The two can't be separated. If Kishimoto hadn't created her, she wouldn't be here for us to wish he was writing her differently or "better." Having anyone besides the original author take over always feels like fan fiction to me.

I'm not sure if I'll be satisfied with Sakura's overall role in the story, but it's too soon to tell. I have to wait until Kishimoto is finished to form an opinion. Even if I end up not liking what he does, I'll always defend his right to do what he wanted with his own characters.

I like how you said it. This.

Bolded: that's the thing, i feel NS relationship was built on a foundation of guilt and sympathy from sakura towards Naruto. which is not a good thing at all

Not to sound rude but you can't be any more wrong with that. First of all, reread chapter 3. Sakura gave no chance for Naruto because according to her, Naruto loves to see her struggling, which is similar to bullying/annoying, much like her flashback. Why deal with a guy who is like your past memory again if you are stronger and can walk out from him? The thing she did wrong is sort of like two wrongs don't make it right scene. It's like if a one boy punched the other boy, who the other boy do? Train and beat him back, problem solved. No, no, that's a bad moral. Her comment to Naruto was like how bully would comment her, with the forehead talk. So when she got the taste of her medicine by Sasuke, she decided to give him a chance. But that doesn't mean they're friend. He has to prove himself that he's not what she thinks he is and luckily, he has done really well. After first Zabuza's first fight, she couldn't believe that this is the Naruto that she thinks it's only immature brat. Heck, read the buildup, you can see how her expression changes.

I seriously start thinking if I should a timeline of her buildup with Naruto and solo. Here's a quick recap on one thing people should understand. The only part that Sakura really got to experience with Sasuke is his path on leaving for revenge. In the bell test, she heard him talking in monologue about revenge and how serious he is that he has no time for games. Again, skip on life and death moment, like in Haku's fight, because well we all care and it's not easy. Then skip to the FoD moment, where Sasuke fought Orochimaru. After that battle, she got worried when Orochimaru told him that he will come to him. Again, related to path of vengeance. Then curse seal, which again, shows how he can be bad because all he wants is power and he likes it. Then, we have no more until the last arc, where Sasuke begins to change for the worse, and then the rest is history. I'm not saying she doesn't love him, but it's not a real development that one would say, "true bond development that has potential to make it romance". I don't need to recap Naruto's side, but if you want, I will.

Oh and why Naruto didn't get this experience until the last arc? Because we need him to show us the brother bond between Naruto and Sasuke, to make us feel bad that Naruto and Sasuke is splitting up as no longer as friend but as enemy. While not the exact same, but in Code Geass, two guys were close friends, but near end of season 1, when the protagonist was discovered to be on the opposing side, the other main character lost all friendship and saw him as a enemy, saying that he shouldn't be born in the first place and bam, they tried to shoot each other, leaving a crazy cliffhanger. That said that's Naruto/Sasuke bond in the nutshell. Reread it and see it for yourself.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 03 May 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I like how you said it. This.


Not to sound rude but you can't be any more wrong with that. First of all, reread chapter 3. Sakura gave no chance for Naruto because according to her, Naruto loves to see her fail, which is similar to bully, much like her flashback. Why deal with a guy who is like your past memory again if you are stronger and

Inst because he was always on her way when it comes to Sasuke.
Even Naruto sits right on the place where she wanted to sit, and she was forced to talk with him even despite not wanting it, like annoying her.

I see more like He wanting to be her friend and she felt annoying because Naruto alwasy have to force a situation to talk and she thinks of him as annoying and always makes some mess like chapter 3.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 May 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Inst because he was always on her way when it comes to Sasuke.
Even Naruto sits right on the place where she wanted to sit, and she was forced to talk with him even despite not wanting it, like annoying her.

I see more like He wanting to be her friend and she felt annoying because Naruto alwasy have to force a situation to talk and she thinks of him as annoying and always makes some mess like chapter 3.

I have to reread that line and she said whatever it is important and he enjoys seeing her struggles. That's bullying/annoying.

[Slextrem]

I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my unfinished neuroscience degree. You backed up my scribbled thoughts with, you know, really cool science and stuff. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

You are very welcome. I'm a big fan of really cool science and stuff, so I just had to share it!

I will agree to disagree. I like facts and thats what just who I am.

My last thaughts on the topic:

Yes its not all about grammar. Love itself is a concept which means you can look at it from biological, psychological, social, philosophical etc. perspective. While you can do that every field will have a different way of defining it. But what they all have in common is the term itself which is defined in the dictionary. So its my personal conviction that when being asked How does this term compare to this one you should look it up for the most acurate conparison. You are of course free to disagree. Yes KnS made a good post but I simply provided a more objective claim.

Alright, I can do that.

You'll learn more about these other concepts later on in life, (University is cool like that. ) There are some things that you just can't hold one definition to, and that's where you've got to learn to accept different perspectives on the subject.

Edited by Slextrem, 03 May 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Alright, I can do that.

You'll learn more about these other concepts later on in life, (University is cool like that. ) There are some things that you just can't hold one definition to, and that's where you've got to learn to accept different perspectives on the subject.

Here, here.

I missed my university days. It was fun. Now, onto the working days. Eh. I guess I am getting old.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 03 May 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[T XD]

Maybe not sympathy but definatly guilt. Not because she genuinely wanted to be friends with him but ratehr out of guilt

If it's guilt, you wouldn't see her beside Naruto the most. Her friendship with him is being constructed too from spending time as a team, hanging out and such. Same with Naruto and Sasuke, when they were in the same team, their friendship begun as in hanging out and appreciate each other. Other than that, Sakura learned from her mistakes and wanted to start a real friendship with Naruto.

These moments are all over Naruto part 1.

[StriderC]

If it's guilt, you wouldn't see her beside Naruto the most. Her friendship with him is being constructed too from spending time as a team, hanging out and such. Same with Naruto and Sasuke, when they were in the same team, their friendship begun as in hanging out and appreciate each other. Other than that, Sakura learned from her mistakes and wanted to start a real friendship with Naruto.

These moments are all over Naruto part 1.

This this this.

Sakura may not of liked Naruto sometimes in Part 1, but she definitely grew to care for him, and become closer to him throughout Part 1. There's no denying that.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I have to reread that line and she said whatever it is important and he enjoys seeing her struggles. That's bullying/annoying.

Her struggles is "getting on her way to Sasuke", she explains later on chapter 3 when she says he's always on her way when it comes to Sasuke, she thinks it's bullying and he's annoying.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Her struggles is "getting on her way to Sasuke", she explains later on chapter 3 when she says he's always on her way when it comes to Sasuke, she thinks it's bullying and he's annoying.

Well, not sure which translation is correct, but for whatever reason, she said the one I just said. But at least the struggling is correct.

[Branden]

Recently I thought a bit about Sakura not as a main character in the series Naruto but rather as a shinobi living in the ninja world. I tried to reenact all of her actions and experiences to try and understand the character Kishi created. At first I thought "I'm a guy, there's no way I could understand a young girl who's becoming a ninja." But then I realized Kishi had to do the exact same thing!
Anyways...
Sakura was raised by a goofy father and a strict mother. Sakura's "odd couple" parents gave her a complex personality. Her best friend, Ino, became her rival after they both developed a crush on Sasuke. Sakura's rivalry was based off of love, and therefor to compete with Ino in she tried to impress Sasuke. Naruto, whom at the time had a crush on her, ended up getting in the way of her competition with Ino via his pursuits towards her. Sakura saw Naruto as an annoying idiot who likes watching her struggle. Though Sakura tried everything she could, Sasuke simply wasn't interested in her. Her continuous failures to impress Sasuke led to a lack of self confidence. She also became insecure about her body. She didn't think she had any notable traits except for a large forehead. She hated her forehead.

At this point it became clear to me that Sakura was more or less a normal civilian girl who wasn't at all prepared for the horrors and hardships that being a shinobi entailed. Her career as a shinobi was far from normal. In her first real mission, she took part in several life or death battles during which she learned that the very enemies she fought were nothing more than victims of the world she lived in. She watched as they died for what they believed in. She had already taken part in an A rank mission far before any normal genin ever should have, and to add to the pressure she was also going to be taking part in the chunin exams. Sakura and her teamates hadn't even a year of experience when they were put into the chunin exams. They had almost no combat training with their sensei and had to rely on prior knowledge alone to compete. While Naruto and Sasuke may have had a few tricks up their sleeve, Sakura was still practically the same person who graduated from the academy. She was ill prepared and surrounded by enemies far stronger than her.

I'm going to stop here because I think now I can ask a few meaningful questions that I've never given much thought to.
But first, a request if I may. I'd like to know how many of you have actually thought about these questions before. Please be honest, I want to know how people will react when they first think about this.

Have you ever considered how extreme the events that happened to Sakura were?
Given that normally genin are treated as apprentices and taught by jounin, do you think it's unfair that Sakura never had a chance to be trained before she was forced into combat?
Can you sympathize with Sakura and all she's been through?
Do you now appreciate Sakura more as a character? I do.

If you're wondering what inspired me to make this post, it's simple. I was of the opinion that Sakura is a disappointing character and had a lot of flaws, most notably her feelings for Sasuke. Despite this, I always got greatly offended whenever somebody hated Sakura. I couldn't figure out why, so I decided to back to square 1 and reanalyze Sakura as a character.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Recently I thought a bit about Sakura not as a main character in the series Naruto but rather as a shinobi living in the ninja world. I tried to reenact all of her actions and experiences to try and understand the character Kishi created. At first I thought "I'm a guy, there's no way I could understand a young girl who's becoming a ninja." But then I realized Kishi had to do the exact same thing!
Anyways...
Sakura was raised by a goofy father and a strict mother. Sakura's "odd couple" parents gave her a complex personality. Her best friend, Ino, became her rival after they both developed a crush on Sasuke. Sakura's rivalry was based off of love, and therefor to compete with Ino in she tried to impress Sasuke. Naruto, whom at the time had a crush on her, ended up getting in the way of her competition with Ino via his pursuits towards her. Sakura saw Naruto as an annoying idiot who likes watching her struggle. Though Sakura tried everything she could, Sasuke simply wasn't interested in her. Her continuous failures to impress Sasuke led to a lack of self confidence. She also became insecure about her body. She didn't think she had any notable traits except for a large forehead. She hated her forehead.

This.

[PhenixElite]

Recently I thought a bit about Sakura not as a main character in the series Naruto but rather as a shinobi living in the ninja world. I tried to reenact all of her actions and experiences to try and understand the character Kishi created. At first I thought "I'm a guy, there's no way I could understand a young girl who's becoming a ninja." But then I realized Kishi had to do the exact same thing!
Anyways...
Sakura was raised by a goofy father and a strict mother. Sakura's "odd couple" parents gave her a complex personality. Her best friend, Ino, became her rival after they both developed a crush on Sasuke. Sakura's rivalry was based off of love, and therefor to compete with Ino in she tried to impress Sasuke. Naruto, whom at the time had a crush on her, ended up getting in the way of her competition with Ino via his pursuits towards her. Sakura saw Naruto as an annoying idiot who likes watching her struggle. Though Sakura tried everything she could, Sasuke simply wasn't interested in her. Her continuous failures to impress Sasuke led to a lack of self confidence. She also became insecure about her body. She didn't think she had any notable traits except for a large forehead. She hated her forehead.

At this point it became clear to me that Sakura was more or less a normal civilian girl who wasn't at all prepared for the horrors and hardships that being a shinobi entailed. Her career as a shinobi was far from normal. In her first real mission, she took part in several life or death battles during which she learned that the very enemies she fought were nothing more than victims of the world she lived in. She watched as they died for what they believed in. She had already taken part in an A rank mission far before any normal genin ever should have, and to add to the pressure she was also going to be taking part in the chunin exams. Sakura and her teamates hadn't even a year of experience when they were put into the chunin exams. They had almost no combat training with their sensei and had to rely on prior knowledge alone to compete. While Naruto and Sasuke may have had a few tricks up their sleeve, Sakura was still practically the same person who graduated from the academy. She was ill prepared and surrounded by enemies far stronger than her.

I'm going to stop here because I think now I can ask a few meaningful questions that I've never given much thought to.
But first, a request if I may. I'd like to know how many of you have actually thought about these questions before. Please be honest, I want to know how people will react when they first think about this.

Have you ever considered how extreme the events that happened to Sakura were?
Given that normally genin are treated as apprentices and taught by jounin, do you think it's unfair that Sakura never had a chance to be trained before she was forced into combat?
Can you sympathize with Sakura and all she's been through?
Do you now appreciate Sakura more as a character? I do.

If you're wondering what inspired me to make this post, it's simple. I was of the opinion that Sakura is a disappointing character and had a lot of flaws, most notably her feelings for Sasuke. Despite this, I always got greatly offended whenever somebody hated Sakura. I couldn't figure out why, so I decided to back to square 1 and reanalyze Sakura as a character.

Dont reallly know what you want to say with this post.

[Branden]

Dont reallly know what you want to say with this post.

I thought it was obvious. I wanted to challenge those of us here who are still overly critical of Sakura as I once was to try and immerse themselves into the story and see if they still think the same way about Sakura.

[Inferno180]

Recently I thought a bit about Sakura not as a main character in the series Naruto but rather as a shinobi living in the ninja world. I tried to reenact all of her actions and experiences to try and understand the character Kishi created. At first I thought "I'm a guy, there's no way I could understand a young girl who's becoming a ninja." But then I realized Kishi had to do the exact same thing!
Anyways...
Sakura was raised by a goofy father and a strict mother. Sakura's "odd couple" parents gave her a complex personality. Her best friend, Ino, became her rival after they both developed a crush on Sasuke. Sakura's rivalry was based off of love, and therefor to compete with Ino in she tried to impress Sasuke. Naruto, whom at the time had a crush on her, ended up getting in the way of her competition with Ino via his pursuits towards her. Sakura saw Naruto as an annoying idiot who likes watching her struggle. Though Sakura tried everything she could, Sasuke simply wasn't interested in her. Her continuous failures to impress Sasuke led to a lack of self confidence. She also became insecure about her body. She didn't think she had any notable traits except for a large forehead. She hated her forehead.

At this point it became clear to me that Sakura was more or less a normal civilian girl who wasn't at all prepared for the horrors and hardships that being a shinobi entailed. Her career as a shinobi was far from normal. In her first real mission, she took part in several life or death battles during which she learned that the very enemies she fought were nothing more than victims of the world she lived in. She watched as they died for what they believed in. She had already taken part in an A rank mission far before any normal genin ever should have, and to add to the pressure she was also going to be taking part in the chunin exams. Sakura and her teamates hadn't even a year of experience when they were put into the chunin exams. They had almost no combat training with their sensei and had to rely on prior knowledge alone to compete. While Naruto and Sasuke may have had a few tricks up their sleeve, Sakura was still practically the same person who graduated from the academy. She was ill prepared and surrounded by enemies far stronger than her.

I'm going to stop here because I think now I can ask a few meaningful questions that I've never given much thought to.
But first, a request if I may. I'd like to know how many of you have actually thought about these questions before. Please be honest, I want to know how people will react when they first think about this.

Have you ever considered how extreme the events that happened to Sakura were?
Given that normally genin are treated as apprentices and taught by jounin, do you think it's unfair that Sakura never had a chance to be trained before she was forced into combat?
Can you sympathize with Sakura and all she's been through?
Do you now appreciate Sakura more as a character? I do.

If you're wondering what inspired me to make this post, it's simple. I was of the opinion that Sakura is a disappointing character and had a lot of flaws, most notably her feelings for Sasuke. Despite this, I always got greatly offended whenever somebody hated Sakura. I couldn't figure out why, so I decided to back to square 1 and reanalyze Sakura as a character.

Branden you hit the bullseye, this is something many people who hate on Sakura never understand.

Still one of the best aspects of her character was when she was confronted with Naruto and Sasuke being knocked out in the forest of death, she had no skills and no real techniques. When the sound ninja came to attack her, it was an impossible situation in which she almost died but only held out due to reenforcements from Lee, team 10, and later team guy.

That point was when Sakura realized if she was to be a ninja she needs to grow up, the land of waves was a forced situation on her but she was lucky others had the skill to handle it. She had been caught in an impossible situation during the battle, after the events of the chunin exams, seeing how strong Naruto became after defeating neji (the one she used to lecture) she was jealous. Sasuke was always ahead of her too. It was only due to these events along with Naruto's failure with Sasuke that she climaxed in part 1 to become better for her team, not just herself. Basically her line "you may need to wait for me" kinda resonated along others, kinda like how Naruto felt fear in his first fight during the ambush, he resolved after that to never run away again. Sakura encountered this during the forest of death but didn't put forward the effort to train more until after Sasuke ran away.

One thing people commonly miss when bashing on Sakura is never understanding her character. She is normal, she does not have any special latent powers (save for perfect chakra control and a natural resislence towards genjutsu but this could be due to her intellengence). I kinda feel from the road to ninja prolouge that aired recently, now we know a bit more about her daily life, kinda like in the start how she says her parents lecture her a lot. She has dyanmic parents, her mother being stern and strict but her father being goofy and a jokester. Maybe this influenced her tsundere personality? Maybe it was influence by both Meubeki and Tsunade that they both have a personality of strictness but also kindness. But as anyone can tell, Sakura's mother is just the type of mother who though strict just tries to do what she thinks is best and still cares for her. Sakura is also a teenager, teenagers are rebels. If anything Sakura fighting with her mother is just a daily thing but Kizashi is just there to be the middle one of their family to break things up, kinda like with that dumb salt joke. Maybe Sakura herself just acts lazy at times too and her parents just don't want that. Its just due to having parents like this Sakura has a good counterbalance to a background of Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto who never knew his until later on and Sasuke who lost his in his life. Sakura has the parents but learns to empathize with the others who lost them. Its like the transistion from initally thinking Naruto was better off with no parents to learning that the 9 tails was the reason for his lonliness, that she has a good friendship with him. What she could not do for him the past she makes up for by being friends in the present due to their growth as teammates and friends.

[PhenixElite]

I thought it was obvious. I wanted to challenge those of us here who are still overly critical of Sakura as I once was to try and immerse themselves into the story and see if they still think the same way about Sakura.

Oh i understand. But why dd you try to see her as a normal character?

[redragon88]

Check out this translation of a Databook regarding Sasuke's goodbye to Sakura in Part 1

The love of Sakura filled the emptiness of loneliness, but Sasuke wasn't able to reciprocate it. The only word he can find to tell her goodbye is "Thank you".

Well, so much for the theories about Sasuke's "secret feelings" for Sakura.