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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#18421 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:07 PM

Is there seriously a such a huge debate about whether Hashirama or Hiruzen is stronger? :wot: I can't even wrap my head around that. I would think it was obvious that Hashirama is far stronger; not knocking the Third or anything, but he couldn't possibly beat Hashirama. What makes people believe Hiruzen is actually more powerful?

Because of the databook :/

Hiruzen fans have made it their chore to copy and paste the part of the databook that says Hiruzen is the strongest at the frequency of taking a breath. Hashirama fans try to argue and explain how Hashirama is the strongest but Hiruzen fans reply with the copy+paste of that databook part each and every time.

It's been like an unspoken agreement that nobody should talk of Hiruzen or their fans will come to invade the thread. Everyone was following it perfectly and I was looking forward to the discussion of chapter 675. Unfortunately, Somehow, some newbie mentions his name, and loads of Hiruzen fans came posting that Hiruzen is the strongest and I was forced to lose hope of reading discussions on the chapter anymore.
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#18422 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:14 PM

Because of the databook :/

Hiruzen fans have made it their chore to copy and paste the part of the databook that says Hiruzen is the strongest at the frequency of taking a breath. Hashirama fans try to argue and explain how Hashirama is the strongest but Hiruzen fans reply with the copy+paste of that databook part each and every time.

It's been like an unspoken agreement that nobody should talk of Hiruzen or their fans will come to invade the thread. Everyone was following it perfectly and I was looking forward to the discussion of chapter 675. Unfortunately, Somehow, some newbie mentions his name, and loads of Hiruzen fans came posting that Hiruzen is the strongest and I was forced to lose hope of reading discussions on the chapter anymore.

 

I see. I wasn't aware the databook listed him as the strongest Hokage, I've never read the databooks. That's definitely been proven false by how OP Hashirama is, but I guess to some the databooks trump manga evidence. Doesn't make much sense to me. :headscratch: Still, I'm surprised Hiruzen fans are so insistent on it.



#18423 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:15 PM

They should say "Well who's standing now, HUH!!"

#18424 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:15 PM

No, my translation was false, in that case 同じ好き is not translated as "it is a similar or same love", it means "it's still love" that's why every translators (MP, MS, and even VIZ translated like that. Ramenanmitsu explained it perfectly yesterday. So the correct translation is "even if you still like him, the feelings (behing this liking) are differents. It's the feelings of the liking itself that are different not the importance of thoses feelings. 
And about the comments I posted, well it's the 2 only comments related to pairings that I found before the release of the SJ in Japan on monday. But since the,; I saw comments about Kakashi's speech on japaneses NS thread, unfortunately, I'm not good enough to understand the comments. So I can't say if they are saying if it is good or bad for NS to them, the only thing I understood was 感無量which means "deep emotion, filled with emotion" and it was the person that was describing his/her feeling about Kakashi's speech.

Aren't those comments before the raw came out? Before the raw came out, Japanese people had to translate from English to Japanese, and if you check out 2ch, you can see how much of a trouble they have of translating it. Their statements are not valid compared to statements made after the raw.

You can see in this Naruto general romance thread that was created AFTER the raw came out that most people are saying Sakura discarded Sasuke. I've only read 100 comments since I don't want to read the whole 1000 comments so I may be wrong.
http://nozomi.2ch.ne...oon/1399874586/

I found the SS thread but their thread is dead since March so I don't know how they are feeling at the moment.
http://ikura.2ch.net...ra2/1389791866/

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 13 May 2014 - 08:00 PM.

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#18425 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:19 PM

So what's new?

#18426 Inferno180

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:38 PM

Not wanting to cause any disturbance here but I've just checked VIZ translation of Kakashi's toughts. And now, I saw this translation of the raw.

 

"そしてサクラ 
sokittene Sakura

あの時とサスケに対する思いは 違うだろう
ano toki to Sasuke ni tai suru omoi wa chigau darō

同じ好きでも その思いは 別のものだ
onaji suki demo sono omoi wa betsu no mono da

命を狙われた相手を今だに思う
inochi o nerawareta aite o ima dani omou

何があろうと 好いていたサスケを切り捨てず 
nani ga arō to suite ita Sasuke o kirisutezu

サスケを闇から救うのは自分の役目だと思っている
Sasuke o yami kara sukuu no wa jibun no yakume da to omotte iru

Which translates to:

and Sakura
what you felt for Sasuke back then has changed, hasn’t it?
though you still like him just the same, there’s something different about your feelings
even now you still care about someone who tried to take your life
no matter what happens, you won’t discard Sasuke whom you love
and you feel it’s your duty to save Sasuke from darkness"

I don't know what to believe in anymore... I really wish that I could have this translated by someone not tendentious. Hearing about VIZ's admiration for NH is depressing. But even with this said, they are the official translaters... Sakura loving Sasuke more than before doesn't make ANY sense!!!!!! 

But oh, well... So many things do not make sense in this manga, maybe romance isn't a exception... Kishimoto can be playing tricks again, I don't know... I only can keep waiting for more conclusive events... :( 

 

Its not a matter of a translation at this point, its a matter of whats actually more believable, there was already a lot of material for the decreased arguement and practically nothing beyond just claims for her love somehow increasing. Really, look at it like this, even before this event took place, there was a lot of issues with SS had. Claiming it increased or trying to find reason in it increasing or why the author would even want us to infer that Sakura's feelings have increased, despite all the chaos Sasuke has caused and antagonism on her, this just puts even more holes in the argument of it increasing. Even then, if it somehow did increase, it wouldnt solve any of the numerous problems already plagued within the pairing before this whole event started. So either way, its harder to make a case out of the its increased argument because there are just too many holes.

 

Even on sites like tumblr, many NS fans presented material, material explaining what the feelings could be decreased, why Mangastream and Viz otherwise were not fully accurate on this stuff and how stuff like changing the dialogue from kushinas foreshadow is just an example of why viz isnt 100% accurate, likewise the deal of Viz not being 100% professional when one of the head guys tweeted NH will be a couple now when 615 occurred and its otherwise just an event like that when we the fans ask, these guys get paid to translate stuff and yet they assume things like this in the story are just done and over? No its not over if the biggest fight was only still about to start in that chapter at the time. The ten tails wasnt even harmed at that point, it just recently revived and people like that guy who tweeted that garbage thought that well, this is done and over? No its wasn't, thats the point.

 

There havn't been any arguments for the its increased side, and believe me there has not been a shred of any argument even half assed for why Sakuras feelings could have increased. SS fans were only making claims it increased, not showing an argument to back it up, because if its so sure and we are able to back up our side, shouldnt they logically be capable of the same thing? I have not seen any arguments for it increasing, none involving why kishi would want us to be thinking it, why it would be important, what it would solve exactly, how it would handle the other problems plaguing SS, how would it make sense or present itself in a meaningful way despite all the past material too, otherwise how could it make it plotwise acceptable and sensible without simply just saying it happened without rendering Sasuke OOC (also just giving reason for why he should go loving sakura to the extents naruto has) or rendering sakura as some static character that almost didnt change in this regard towards him or reduced her to just a convinent plot point in the end. Really SS fans are still just expecting SS just cause, more like a destination than the whole journey stuff, but the plot is otherwise the whole thing that must be considered, as a journey not a destination, like the main plot, we are more concerned with how naruto earned his right to be hokage not how he became hokage. Hokage is just a destination for him, the reader should be more concerned on the journey to become hokage.

 

Thats the deal, the increased side just has a lot of inconsistences and otherwise no arguements were presented to even give us a reason to believe the increased side could even occur, there has to be something to argue for it besides hoping for future material to be in their favor, there has to be something credible. Yet all I have heard was that kakashi and the Iwa Nin are credible where as yamato, sai, and minato are not. Yet you can identify the whole double standards within that past statement regarding the Iwa nin, literally this arguement thrown around on Sai, yamato, and minato not knowing naruto for long is BS and not worthy of a consideration but lumping the Iwa nin is credible because he was simply around sakura for not even 5 minutes. But otherwise they say kakahsi is the only believeable one cause they see it on their side.

 

But thats really it, the increased side again, just too many holes in its theory. SS had tons of problems before this, trying to invoake this increased theory only makes many more questions than answers. And with the SS fandom itself not providing any material to even argue why it should be considered to have increased, well if they cannot argue it or choose not too, why should we believe it increased? I mean I saw Slextrem, Ramenanimistu, and others put up material overall that could be cross referenced and explained our view on why it decreased, I dont know why the SS fans couldnt do the same if it was so assured. But if theres not to present or argue, then otherwise me and other fans have no reason to believe or consider how Sakuras feelings could have somehow increased. To us, the decreased side makes sense and because of all this material actually arguing a view on the decreased end while the increased one continues to run only with claims, then I think our minds are set on the decreased side because the side that provides an argument at least knows what its getting at beyond just claims of their pairing coming. Thats all I saw from SS fans, its going to happen SS is canon, etc. But I didnt see reasons for why I should believe it or even consider it. Anyone can make a claim, but not everyone can or is willing to argue, no arguments for Sakuras feelings increasing, no reason to consider them increasing.

 

I'm with the rest at this point going by the mangapanda translation in the past tense, that it has changed, that saying its more or less a different feeling, no longer love. That she still cares for him and wants to save him from darkness but that she cares for him in ways similar to naruto has for all these years, mainly also that is just character development, sakura changes in regards to both of them and will continue to change. This didnt kill SS, just singaled its decline from love and that it will just be friendship in the end. Otherwise theres just the whole nonsense of how could it have increased and obviously the whole deal isnt SS granted with Sai's input on mistrust still lingering, I mean this is why Sakura wanted to know his reason for becoming hokage and well, we know she supports naruto for hokage and if sasuke only wants it as a position of power that will let him achieve his goal than well who do they expect sakura to support at this time later? Obviously the mistrust still bothers her, its something that she will be impacted by later. So again, just more holes in the its increased side for those saying SS is assured.

 

I mean saying her love is the same is just defeating the purpose of kakashis view by all means and one opinion alone cannot mean the whole deal, I mean if we can say Yamato, sai, and minatos opinons for naruto need to all be considered than yes Sais and Kakashi on sasuke (and sakura) otherwise must be considered too to get a better understanding or preception of what can happen in the future and from what sai and kakashi have on sasuke, its not good, its something in question, its going to be something that upsets others. In regards to sakura, sais view gave us a sense of mistrust from the sincere words fake smile while kakashi was out of the deal and wanted to know the real point of sasukes new goal. Take sai and kakashis views together in regards with sakura, sai sees mistrust from her towards sasuke, kakashi senses its changed, sakura herself questioned sasuke with kakashi, this just makes things harder to argue from the increased side.

 

So you see, thats it, too many holes in the its increased side yet the decreased side at least put out a lot of material for you to make a judgement.

 

We believe that its the decreased side because there was just not enough to even make sense on the increased side and for the ones knowing SS, the SS fans, to not provide any reasons we should even consider, then why should we consider SS having increased? No reasons or argument, no point. Otherwise most of us are conclusive in our view and ready to move on saying its decreased, SS is declining, its moving away from love, its going to just be friendship and that sakura wants to save sasuke as a comrade, that this is the start of sakura moving away from loving sasuke, that is all.



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#18427 Ausakura

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:34 PM

"Everything you just said in your post, i'm just summarizing to not make this post too big"

Thank you so much! You really cleared my blurried vision.

 

I prefer to believe that Sakura's feelings are changing. Not only because it's my pairing choice, but as you just said, it fits the story and give sense to Kakashi's thoughts, in terms of fiction it's logical.

 

I'm imagining that Sakura and Kakashi will be apart form this battle against Madara and maybe he will conclude his thought about her feelings. As someone here mentioned, her presentation wasn't all her fangirling about Sasuke, she also said that the most thing she hated was Naruto. I can't help but wonder if there'll be some moment like the one in the Heaven and Earth arc soon. Databooks imply that "at the start, Naruto was just a nuisance but this changed and now she doens't know what she feels towards him". I really don't want to overthink, but I just feel that Kakashi's impressions about his team won't end right now. Kishimoto likes to extend things and give details that are bit unnecessary (like Madara & Hashirama dramatical flashback of when they were kids, Guy and his father G0y Dai, etc). Maybe we'll finally see stated in the manga what Databooks have been pointing all this years. 

 

But I'm also convinced that there'll be no concrete evidence to any pairing until the main plot ends. Just confusing baits in the hook that don't define nothing for good like this one, just to tease and give hints that leads to nowhere... That's what make ships so fun to ship, right?



#18428 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:53 PM

Question of the day:

The new chapter is among us and we all look forward to it. That being said honestly speaking, don't be ashame. Which battle are you mostly thrill to see? Madara vs. Team 7 OR "NS vs SS"?
That's right, you read it right. This is the closest you can get for equal grounds and no more bs should be made (doubt it). So be honest, what is your answer?

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 13 May 2014 - 07:57 PM.


#18429 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:56 PM

Question of the day:

The new chapter is among us and we all look forward to it. That being said honestly speaking, don't be ashame. Which battle are you mostly thrill to see? Madara vs. Team 7 OR "NS vsSS"?
That's right, you read it right. This is the closest you can get for equal grounds and no more bs should be made (doubt it). So be honest, what is your answer?

No expectatives.
I know Sakura is going to be knocked out, kishi loves to troll her.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 13 May 2014 - 07:57 PM.

SK-303_image007.jpg

#18430 Inferno180

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:00 PM

Question of the day:

The new chapter is among us and we all look forward to it. That being said honestly speaking, don't be ashame. Which battle are you mostly thrill to see? Madara vs. Team 7 OR "NS vs SS"?
That's right, you read it right. This is the closest you can get for equal grounds and no more bs should be made (doubt it). So be honest, what is your answer?

 

I'm leaning on either;

Obito plops out of the dimension first from madara to serve as a warning that the left rinnegan is lost and obito makes some words. Sakura needs to keep him alive without black zetsu.

 

Sakura joins the fight releasing her full seal, slug sage mode, or naruto just tags her and gives her a serge of power like the rest of the SA from before.



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#18431 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:11 PM

Sakura joins the fight releasing her full seal, slug sage mode, or naruto just tags her and gives her a serge of power like the rest of the SA from before.


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Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 13 May 2014 - 08:12 PM.

SK-303_image007.jpg

#18432 James S Cassidy

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:31 PM

Question of the day:

The new chapter is among us and we all look forward to it. That being said honestly speaking, don't be ashame. Which battle are you mostly thrill to see? Madara vs. Team 7 OR "NS vs SS"?
That's right, you read it right. This is the closest you can get for equal grounds and no more bs should be made (doubt it). So be honest, what is your answer?

 

Team 7 or we are going to cut to something else happening on the battlefield.


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#18433 FireFox

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:45 PM

 I think its the perfect time now to go back to the alliance vs Yamato i mean Swirly Zetsu   , in therms of T7 i see NSasu vs NS (like it was in this chapter lol)  instead of  NS vs SS , also  like someone here mentioned instead thinking of Sasuke like in P1 she will be thinking and supporting Naruto now .


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#18434 Otaru

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:20 PM

No expectatives.
I know Sakura is going to be knocked out, kishi loves to troll her.


It's not that he likes to troll her IMO.
It's that japanese vision is different.
They do accept people flaws. They even find them beautiful.
Everything is at it's place. You know what I mean ?

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#18435 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:44 PM

Question of the day:

The new chapter is among us and we all look forward to it. That being said honestly speaking, don't be ashame. Which battle are you mostly thrill to see? Madara vs. Team 7 OR "NS vs SS"?
That's right, you read it right. This is the closest you can get for equal grounds and no more bs should be made (doubt it). So be honest, what is your answer?

 

I think I've had enough pairing drama for a while. The last chapter caused way more controversy among fans than I was expecting, though I really should have known better. Anyway, I'm surprisingly starting to look forward to the fight, mainly because I'm holding on to hope that Kishimoto will let Sakura do something to contribute. *Fingers crossed* And I want to see Madara get his ego taken down a few notches. :plots:  


Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 13 May 2014 - 09:49 PM.


#18436 rikakim94

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:15 PM

 

I think I've had enough pairing drama for a while. The last chapter caused way more controversy among fans than I was expecting, though I really should have known better. Anyway, I'm surprisingly starting to look forward to the fight, mainly because I'm holding on to hope that Kishimoto will let Sakura do something to contribute. *Fingers crossed* And I want to see Madara get his ego taken down a few notches. :plots:  

 

Im hoping she might finally get to use the genjutsu ability that was mentioned long long time ago and she definitely needs to have big panel fight scenes that lasts long without naruto and sasuke trying to save this time. I want her to stand on her own.

 

As for the pairing drama has officially been taken way too far by some. I feel sorry for the translators megi and ramennatsu. 


Edited by rikakim94, 13 May 2014 - 10:16 PM.


#18437 MoonDrop04

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:22 PM

Question of the day:

The new chapter is among us and we all look forward to it. That being said honestly speaking, don't be ashame. Which battle are you mostly thrill to see? Madara vs. Team 7 OR "NS vs SS"?
That's right, you read it right. This is the closest you can get for equal grounds and no more bs should be made (doubt it). So be honest, what is your answer?


Madara vs team 7 Definetly lol :D because I want to see Sakura's involvement in the fight so bad but probably won't get to see it for another couple chapters hopefully. And the whole NS and SS fighting is secondary to me cause right now what's the point if either side isn't backing down until one gets a definitive edge??

Note: my money is on NS!!! BOOYAH!!! :D lol

#18438 TyranntX

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:26 PM

 

Ahah perfect timing for chapter 50. I like EreMika but it's too obvious it's not even fun to ship, that why I ship all the couple in SNK.

Someday I should try to make a narusaku +18 doujinshi.

 

DO IT! DO IT! TYRANT DEMANDS PORN!!!!

 

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Das sagt alles, und wir sollten endlich aufzugeben. 
 
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#18439 rocci

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:27 PM

No expectatives.
I know Sakura is going to be knocked out, kishi loves to troll her.

Madara will stab sakura, but that's not for next chapter.
Next chapter is about madara display of power.
It will become like garra vs naruto. In the end sasuke become jealous again.

#18440 FireFox

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:47 PM

Madara will stab sakura, but that's not for next chapter.
Next chapter is about madara display of power.
It will become like garra vs naruto. In the end sasuke become jealous again.

Trap her like Garra maybe but stabbing/killing her is out of the question there is no point in doing that when her seal is still active plus Naruto is there to refill her chakra if he already hasn't done that .  But i do expect for Sasuke to be jelly of Naruto at the end of the war , heck he was jelly of him even this chapter when he was explaining his power to Sakura and Sasuke didn't want to hear that that's why he interrupted him and he was also jelly of him when Naruto went KSM ,  I say third time is a charm and a stab to the back lol .


Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 13 May 2014 - 11:59 PM.

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