4869 replies to this topic

[Nee-sama]

Like I said before, the whole NaruHina thing has a purpose, and that is to add drama and suspence to NaruSaku! heheh Seriously though :verymad:

[Nate River]

Got another post on my youtube pairing video that made me go WTF.

ok look guys yes narusaku is more likely than naruhina but which one of these relationships causes more turmoil? Say for instance if narusaku does happen what then? they already hang out together, eat together occasionally, and are on the same team aside from a few relationship problems it should work out fine. ok what do i mean by this? It's that turmoil that keeps the reader interested in the story which is why NARUHINA WILL be more likely.........to be continued....... (continuing on) naruhina has more potential for a relationship in a manga like naruto 1 naruto barely knows hinata. 2 she's part of the hyuga clan marital problems may arise 3 sh's neji's cousin now this may be seen as a bad thing for a relationship BUT a crucial factor comes into play CONFLICT SELLS and that maybe why kishimoto might end up with naruhina with more problems arising more material can be written and published.

Could someone please explain this to me?

Sure thing.

NaruHina might happen despite the fact that, by the posters own admission, NaruSaku is more than likely because NaruHina has more potential conflict. This appears to matter because the manga is so unsuccessful that Kishimoto needs to dump a pairing that he's been developing for one hasn't been in order to generate conflict and, thus, gin up sales of this struggling series.

And...NaruHina generates more conflict because (1) a side character "he barely knows" has family issues that have received barely a mention since Neji's unceremonious beat-down in the Chuunin exams and (2) a cousin who is also a side character of limited importance whose family issues also have barely been mentioned since he had his butt kicked.

Thus, Kishimoto will abandon the more likely pairing in exchange for the less likely one on the basis of two side characters whose family issues are little more than a tangential side story at this point because his manga needs more conflict. Because...you know, all the conflict surrounding Sasuke and Madara just isn't cutting it.

.............

In all seriousness, though, the speculative conflict is such a minor and insignificant story line at this point that its really tough to believe its going to be resurrected when it has zero to do with what is currently happening. Could the resolution of the Hyuuga issues become a giant mess? Absolutely and it can make for great fanfiction.

But (1) its irrelevant right now and (2) I suspect that Hiashi's pleas to Neji are all the resolution we are going to get. The head of the clan bowed before a branch member. It's not a complete resolution, but the action itself implies that the seeds of change have been planted and will continue from there. Is it realistic to believe that's all it'd take? Probably not, but its an not overriding plot so it doesn't need a long drawn out and totally complete resolution. To do it properly would require a Kishimoto spend a large amount of time on the resolution of an issue that's not important to the main plot.

[NuclearRaven]

Well suppose NaruSaku does happen what happens then? How would it be any fundamentally different than what's already occurring in the manga? Feelings, tears, protectiveness of one another it's already happening. The pairing would lead to wasted material with no true growth in each others characters if the pairing were to occur.

Wasted Material? Um what?

[RyrineaHaruno]

Well suppose NaruSaku does happen what happens then? How would it be any fundamentally different than what's already occurring in the manga? Feelings, tears, protectiveness of one another it's already happening. The pairing would lead to wasted material with no true growth in each others characters if the pairing were to occur.

.


??? I am confused here too? It not wasted material. Can you give me the link Nuclear raven?

[NuclearRaven]

Sure here's the link.

[Freakazoid]

From a writer's perspective, I couldn't imagine devoting the amount of panel time and foreshadowing to a pairing for your main character for it not to be what you are going to set in stone.

The wasted material would be if NaruSaku DIDN'T happen. Nothing would be lost if it did, just everything finally coming together to what it was building up to. There were plenty of chances to develop NH or SS that Kishimoto just did not take, not even tiny hints at mutual feeling development.

I think that pretty much says it all.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Sure here's the link.

I replayed to him. I think he is a toll don't reply to him anymore.

[lolaMarie]

No conflict? Has the person read the recent manga chapters? What their doing is creating a story and ignoring what is in the actual story. I remember when it was NaruHina that said that there was to much conflict in NaruSaku.

Naruto "hiding" his feelings because of a promise (CONFLICT)
Sakura feeling inadequate (CONFLICT)
Naruto feeling inadequate (CONFLICT)

Just enough to keep the relationship interesting and fresh without turning it into a romantic drama.

[Sherry]

hmm i wonder what happened between naruto and sakura in their childhood.
I a little understand why naruto loves sakura (because of acknowledgements, maybe?) but i'm sure in konoha there must be several girls that had lack of acknowledgement...
so...what makes naruto has chosen sakura? there must be something happened between them long time ago...but i've never found it out. i hope it's a good story, hee hee.

moreover, i don't like fillers in anime. because the animators, i think, create the old sakura (the annoying sakura, that's what i thought of 12-year-old sakura) but in fact, sakura now has changed to the better sakura. umm i just pity naruto because he always be the first victim of sakura...in fillers of anime, i mean.

[Daidoji_Tangen]

hmm i wonder what happened between naruto and sakura in their childhood.
I a little understand why naruto loves sakura (because of acknowledgements, maybe?) but i'm sure in konoha there must be several girls that had lack of acknowledgement...
so...what makes naruto has chosen sakura? there must be something happened between them long time ago...but i've never found it out. i hope it's a good story, hee hee.

moreover, i don't like fillers in anime. because the animators, i think, create the old sakura (the annoying sakura, that's what i thought of 12-year-old sakura) but in fact, sakura now has changed to the better sakura. umm i just pity naruto because he always be the first victim of sakura...in fillers of anime, i mean.

I thought about it and came up with two possibilities:

1. He saw Sakura the same time Ino saw her. He was just too shy to reach out to her (younger Naruto could have easily been shy).

2. Sakura had actual reasons for hating Naruto, unlike the village who hated him forbeing the Kyuubi and the kids who hated him because their parents did. Naruto took some relief in the fact that she hated him for being Uzumaki Naruto and not for being "that kid."

[catsi563]

I thought about it and came up with two possibilities:

1. He saw Sakura the same time Ino saw her. He was just too shy to reach out to her (younger Naruto could have easily been shy).

2. Sakura had actual reasons for hating Naruto, unlike the village who hated him forbeing the Kyuubi and the kids who hated him because their parents did. Naruto took some relief in the fact that she hated him for being Uzumaki Naruto and not for being "that kid."

Thats actually exactly what happened. Sakura herself acknowledged that when she was talking to Naruto ((disguised as Sasuke)) she called him annoying and said that he was always interfering with her and liked to see her fail. She was mad that he didnt seem to undertand her at all.

[Seraphic Guardian]

She was mad that he didnt seem to undertand her at all.

Hm, that last line, that didn't make much sense xD could you rephrase it?

[Sherry]

2. Sakura had actual reasons for hating Naruto, unlike the village who hated him forbeing the Kyuubi and the kids who hated him because their parents did. Naruto took some relief in the fact that she hated him for being Uzumaki Naruto and not for being "that kid."

emm sorry, i don't understand about the second possibilities. I don't get your point.

Sorry~

[Seraphic Guardian]

Ugh, sorry, I'm confused, lol. Sorry to confuse you too, I'm just tired I guess... I think I get it now, lol, after posting, oops, I'm an idiot! xD

Nevermind last post please... Tiredness!

Edited by Sakura Blossoms, 24 August 2009 - 05:08 PM.
Do not double post

[Sherry]

no problem! Love is confusing too in Naruto, i guess.

Now I wonder how much chapters I have to wait till Sakura meets Naruto. And how?? That's the main point. It will be funny (for me and my sister, because we had ever talked about this) by the time Sakura reaches the place of Kage Summit, she is seeing nothing beside the crushed tents (maybe?). I mean, she's left far behind when Naruto is busy chasing Sasuke or something like that.

[RedDelicious]

I do think things may get worse for NaruSaku before they get better.
Sakura may rant at Naruto, and not in a playful way, for what he has been concealing from her. Right now, it shows that he doesn't trust her. (In the same way that Hinata didn't trust Naruto when he asked all the villagers to stay away during the Pein fight, so that he wouldn't have to worry for their safety.)

I think the biggest obstacle to NaruSaku right now is Naruto, because he is hiding what he is doing from Sakura. While it may be noble and humble to not make a big deal of the effort he is putting in, to have a meaningful relationship at some point he must be willing to share his burdens with Sakura. (I imagine that the big lesson he learned when he was younger and outcast, was that he could only rely on himself.) Sakura already took this step at the end of Part 1, when she progressed from expecting Naruto to save the day, to trying to do the work with him. I think a big growth for Naruto will be if he learns to be a team player with the other leaf nins (even in Sage mode), rather than shoulder everything himself.

[Jenskott]

Sigh. I was reading the Mizura's anti-NH essay and scrolling down the comments when I found two no-nice comments. I replied one of them, and I think I should copy/paste their and my arguments here:

Heronite - Why I Dislike NaruHina

First poster:

Hinata doesn't understand Naruto's pain/loneliness basically pops up in this manifesto SEVERAL times. And Sakura had her parents killed? And she has a demon sealed inside her?

...yeah.

Your logic (and lack there of) is disgraceful.

Plus, your downing team 8 and HINATA throughout this manifesto.

I thought you were a "Hinata fan". *cough* Liar. *cough*

Mizura's reply. How you can see it's simple, concise and straight to the point:

Sakura is a direct witness to Naruto's difficult moments.

Hinata just sits back and go "Wow, Naruto is so cool! He never lets anything get to him!" (yeah right)

I like Hinata for addressing her own problems, not for being blind to Naruto's.

And then the first poster -or someone else- replied:

Hinata (most likely) doesn't know about Naruto's demon.

She does, however, know the people who teased him at the academy. I'm sure she is aware of the fact that Naruto was hurt by the constant "shunning" (as you could put it). Unless she knows exactly NOTHING about human behavior she knows it hurts. But do you think she wants to tell Naruto "Your life sucks, but you take it okay."? No, she wants to make him feel BETTER.

She wants to tell him, "It doesn't matter what those jerks say to you, you don't let it get to you."

This might not be the best way to put it buts it's better than (abusing) hitting him.

When I read this nosense (I'm really, REALLY, sick of that "abuse" garbage), I felt the need to write something down:

"Hinata (most likely) doesn't know about Naruto's demon."

She didn't know about it. That's a fact.

After the Uchiha arc, I'm sure she knows.

You can see how much she cares for it and for the pain Naruto has suffered cause it. NOTHING.

"She does, however, know the people who teased him at the academy. I'm sure she is aware of the fact that Naruto was hurt by the constant "shunning" (as you could put it). Unless she knows exactly NOTHING about human behavior she knows it hurts. But do you think she wants to tell Naruto "Your life sucks, but you take it okay."? No, she wants to make him feel BETTER."

Gee, and why did she didn't back then? And why she didn't it later on? She got countless chances and she did NOTHING for lessening Naruto's loneliness and pain.

She only approached to him ONCE, and it was after Naruto had found several persons already gave him what he craved for and were there for him.

"She wants to tell him, "It doesn't matter what those jerks say to you, you don't let it get to you.""

Yet she NEVER did.

Moreover, of what she has told, she didn't think he needed her assistance or her support. She thought he was doing it fine on his own. What he didn't.

"This might not be the best way to put it"

You're right. It's an awfully bad way to put this flimsy, nosensical argument.

"buts it's better than (abusing) hitting him."

Sakura has NEVER abused Naruto -or Iruka or Kakashi for that matter-. The hits are scarce, comedic and not to be taken seriously. I suggest you get over it or stop reading this manga since obviously you don't -want- understand how shonen manga works.

Hinata supposedly saw Naruto's pain and loneliness and she did NOTHING for helping him. On the other hand, Sakura has been helping him, supporting him, encouraging him, defending him and standing up to him since she saw his pain and loneliness.

And do you honestly think Hinata's (in)actions are better? Because I honestly can't see HOW, or why NH fans think that's a good argument. Hinata never helped him despite supposedly knowing he needed help. Sakura helped him as soon as she realized he needed help. According NARUTO himself, she was one of the first persons gave him the acknowledgement he craved for, and saved him from a Hell of loneliness could have turned him in other Gaara.

Sakura has done way more things than Hinata for Naruto. That is a manga FACT. If you refuse see this, and if you truly think Sakura has done nothing for Naruto but hitting him, then your shipping is blinding you.

And then, after hitting the "send message" button, I had an afterthought:

I wasn't going to write further, but I realized someone could try using chapter 437 for, twisting my words, trying proving I'm also a blind shipper, hence, a hypocrite. So, in order to forestall that (and why must I explain myself? Sigh. Shipping debates...):

Firstly, I was EXCLUSIVELY debating about Hinata's actions BACK IN THE ACADEMY. The former poster tried explaining the Hinata's inaction away, claiming it was better than Sakura's actions (why Sakura always get bashed out of nowhere when someone is "defending" Hinata is something I don't get). And I pointed out why it wasn't.

Hinata didn't help or befriend Naruto in the Academy. Neither Sakura did, but Sakura had one excuse: she didn't know. According NH fans, Hinata had not such an excuse. How her lack from action was better? If Sakura would have known, she would have not left him alone (this isn't speculation. She didn't leave him alone when she found out the truth. There's no reason to believe she wouldn't have done the same thing if she would have found out when she was a child).

Secondly, if Sakura has always helped Naruto more times and in more important ways, why she didn't try saving him from Pain whereas Hinata did? Esay. She didn't know. Read again chapter 430. She couldn't see cause the smoke and she was too far. However, a Hyuuga clansman could see because his Byakkugan, and he informed her that Naruto had arrived. And he was winning. Shortly after, Gamakichi arrived with Tsunade, and the group retreated.

Again, I remind you Sakura couldn't see the battle because she lacked the White Eye. And the last thing she knew before retreating was Naruto had crushed one Pain body with one single blow, and he was winning.

The next thing she knew was the very air was burning with demonic chakra.

On the other hand, Hinata could see the fight because she wielded the White Eye. Thus, she saw Naruto was in trouble and, for once, acted.

And I appreciate that gesture (and that growing of spine).

That said, she chose a poor method for helping him. I understand she panicked and was too afraid to think straight, but she should have searched reinforcements to hold Pain back while she -or someone else- released Naruto. And then let Naruto dealing with Pain, instead of fighting straight-on an enemy she knew she couldn't triumph over.

On the other hand, when Sakura found out the seal had been broken, reacted inmediately and calmly to save everybody: she took charge of a hopeless situation, ensued orders to protect the townspeople and rescue Hinata as she came up with a plan for saving Naruto from himself.

And not, I'm not bashing Hinata. I understand why she snapped out, I admire her willingness to help... but she chose doing it in a poor way. It was the same situation with Sakura dashing towards a Four-Tailed Fox: a brave, selfless act... but ultimately stupid.

Do you think my arguments are good? Perhaps I was too harsh or rude -something I try avoiding-, but I'm so sick of the "Sakura only abuses Naruto! Sakura has never helped Naruto! Hinata has been nicer with Naruto! If you claim you are a Hinata fan but you can't see that, you're a liying non-fan!" rubbish.

That is NOT true and it has NEVER been true, and the manga canon DOES prove that presumption is FALSE, but I see it the whole time and it's beyond irritating.

[catsi563]

Hm, that last line, that didn't make much sense xD could you rephrase it?

Ok let me explain.

It is established in the manga that with the exception fo the rookie 9 for the most part all the other children disliekd Naruto due to their parents dislikes. Basiclaly the children parroted their parents and treated naruto coldly and angrilly.

However it is also established by Sakura herself that her dislike of Naruto stems from Annoyance. She is annoyed with him because "He always interferes with my love life, and he likes to see me fail."

Then she says "Naruto just doesnt understand me at all."

basiclaly she indicates that her anger at naruto is coming from his behavior not from any preconceived hatred from her parents or any such thing.

Its one of the things in fan fiction that rather annoys me honestly as I see no reason for it. The assumption that Sakuras parents are avid Naruto haters and encouraged her to hate naruto like the other kids do. it simply isnt true and Sakuras own words support this.

[Daidoji_Tangen]

emm sorry, i don't understand about the second possibilities. I don't get your point.

Sorry~

Naruto saw how the village looked at him as "that kid." Even though he didn't know about the Kyuubi, he could probably sense they didn't look at him as human. They looked at him differently and taught their kids to.

Sakura's hatred was entirely personal. She didn't look at him as "that kid," but as Uzumaki Naruto. He saw that she viewed him the same as she did everyone else. She just didn't like him. I could see how it must have been a relief to have someone look at you like you're human even she didn't like you.

Sigh. I was reading the Mizura's anti-NH essay and scrolling down the comments when I found two no-nice comments. I replied one of them, and I think I should copy/paste their and my arguments here:

Heronite - Why I Dislike NaruHina

First poster:



Mizura's reply. How you can see it's simple, concise and straight to the point:



And then the first poster -or someone else- replied:



When I read this nosense (I'm really, REALLY, sick of that "abuse" garbage), I felt the need to write something down:



And then, after hitting the "send message" button, I had an afterthought:



Do you think my arguments are good? Perhaps I was too harsh or rude -something I try avoiding-, but I'm so sick of the "Sakura only abuses Naruto! Sakura has never helped Naruto! Hinata has been nicer with Naruto! If you claim you are a Hinata fan but you can't see that, you're a liying non-fan!" rubbish.

That is NOT true and it has NEVER been true, and the manga canon DOES prove that presumption is FALSE, but I see it the whole time and it's beyond irritating.

Your post was excellent.

Going back to the school thing, there are to things I would like to add (though definitely not necessary after your post):

1. Naruto told Gaara he almost became like him if not for Iruka and then Team 7. Seriously, I would not be able to like Hinata (which I do) if she saw Naruto was in such pain that he could see himself becoming a monster like Gaara. Her shyness is not an excuse.

2. Sakura didn't like Naruto because she thought he was teasing her and making fun of her. She misunderstood his feelings. He was a prankster. Combined with her own low self-esteem, it is understandable how she might not get him.

Ok let me explain.

It is established in the manga that with the exception fo the rookie 9 for the most part all the other children disliekd Naruto due to their parents dislikes. Basiclaly the children parroted their parents and treated naruto coldly and angrilly.

However it is also established by Sakura herself that her dislike of Naruto stems from Annoyance. She is annoyed with him because "He always interferes with my love life, and he likes to see me fail."

Then she says "Naruto just doesnt understand me at all."

basiclaly she indicates that her anger at naruto is coming from his behavior not from any preconceived hatred from her parents or any such thing.

Its one of the things in fan fiction that rather annoys me honestly as I see no reason for it. The assumption that Sakuras parents are avid Naruto haters and encouraged her to hate naruto like the other kids do. it simply isnt true and Sakuras own words support this.

I don't know about the Rookie 9 not disliking Naruto because their parents did. I think they simply found acceptance of him after he proved himself (Kiba fight). It's been a while since I read it, but I don't remember the Rookie 9 outside of Sasuke, Sakura, and Hinata getting along with Naruto before that. Except in the anime. I think their parents accepted Naruto after their kids did. Shikaku showed how Shikamaru changed his mind to some extent (admittedly it wasn't from hatting Naruto to accepting him, but same principle can still apply).

Honestly, I don't think Sakura's parents even knew. I think she is the first gen of ninja in her family. And the Third's law stopped a lot of the non-shinobi in the village from finding out (though Naruto was still bratty enough to encourage dislike for reasons other than the Kyuubi). But I could be wrong.

[catsi563]

don't know about the Rookie 9 not disliking Naruto because their parents did

Thats not what i said, in point of fact evidence suggests quite the opposite. They just disliekd him because he was loud and obnoxious and annoying. After the Kiba fight though i agree that they did seem to accept him as a shinobi.

I disagree though that their parents of the rookie 9 didnt accept him Id say that evidence suggests that they supported him even if silently due to his sacrafice. His pranks and obnoxiousness didnt help him any but they did give him the chance to earn his own way.

As to Sakuras parents there simply is no evidence of their attitudes towards Naruto on either extreme honestly. Yet for some reason both parents are villified by fandom for no good reason and Sakura herself is often mistakenly lumped into the category of hating Naruto because her parents did. But this simply isnt the case and Sakuras own words support this.