219 replies to this topic

[KungFuTruffle]

Who's to say Karin won't become a Naruto/Sakura shipper herself?

[Gravenimage]

Ino gotta join in too, then we have a serious kunoichi showdown in konoha.

Should we add Hinata?.....nah

Kung Fu Thruffle@

Yeah that could be it too. Karin might become another N/S fan like Yamato, Sai and the entire village of Konoha.

Edited by Gravenimage, 19 March 2010 - 12:38 AM.

[No WhereMan]

Who's to say Karin won't become a Naruto/Sakura shipper herself?

Actually that's what I meant by meddler. Doing something that pushes for Naru/Saku

[catsi563]

For those who think karins going after Naruto for herself, your waaaaay off. Shes in love with the Sasuke who was with her in team hawk, before he slipped away into Darkness. the only thing Narutos going to do for her beyond being a friend is renew her fatih in the team hawk Sasuke and his redemption jsut as he did with Sakura.

Now will she have an effect on Sakura? yes I believe she will, and the two will talk about things. Her effect may very well surprise a lot of people.

[ShippudenGirl]

Ino gotta join in too, then we have a serious kunoichi showdown in konoha.

Catfight!
*Grabs popcorn* Buahaha >D Kill each other! *Sakura drop kills them all and punches them out of the country* Sakura wins!!!!

[narukunsakuchan]

Well I don't know about you guys but karin is fastly growing as one of my favorite female characters. True she loved Sasuke, but when he almost killed her she moved on lol I like how she din't wallow on the fact and faced it head on with her "I'm done with him" speech. It is what I have wanted to see in this anime for a while is that Sasuke is not all that and a bag of chips. Cannot wait to see what kinda role she plays. I have my hopes for what she will do.

[Pite]

I wonder whether or not have we come to a point where every single minor detail we immediately force ourselves into believing that for some reason it is or it is not a NS reaction or hint towards that pairing. Remember that this is a primarily a fighting manga of the type of DBZ or Yaiba. Details are good for battle or sudden surprises , such as the scar on the cheek and the kunai or the pencil in the Killer Bee/Kisame battle. But details concerning romance here are more visible or more pronounced.

About Sakura in this chapter, she is of course worried about both of them, they are her team mates, they had formed a strong bond during the Zabuza Arc or Chunin exams like soldiers do at a battle field. And the reaction she had towards accidentally poisoning Naruto would be expected from most if not all characters if they were in Sakura's place.

[Kenny-kun]

I'm probably gonna get a lot of hate mail for this post, but it's of no consequence as this is something that has been bothering me for quite a while and I am amazed that no one else has picked up on it (well, save for a bunch of people on other sites).


A


1) http://www.mangastre...aruto/486-70/14
2) http://www.mangastre...aruto/486-70/17
3) http://www.mangastre...naruto/487-75/3
4) http://www.mangastre...naruto/487-75/4
5) http://www.mangastre...naruto/487-75/5
6) http://www.mangastre...aruto/487-75/10

1)Naruto: I'll bear the burden of your hatred and we'll die together

2)Naruto: There'll be no more burdens to bear and we'll come to understand each other in the next world

3) Sasuke: Have it your way. I'll kill you first.

4) Sakura (after remembering what Naruto says in #1): The only thing that remains for me is to believe in them.

5) Kakashi: Okay, Sasuke is all yours.

6) Sakura: I still believe there can be a happy ending for everyone on Team 7


Why is Naruto okay with dying with Sasuke? He tells Sasuke that if he comes to Konoha, they'll fight and kill each other. He has yet to speak of any other outcome and is completely satisfied with this one. What's more, both Sakura and Kakashi are cool with it as well (though it's worth noting that Kakashi objected to the idea in the previous chapter) with Sakura even saying she believes everyone on can have a happy ending. What possesses her to think that a dead Naruto and Sasuke is a happy ending? Why isn't she even slightly concerned about Naruto fatalistically thinking that a full on fight with Sasuke will result in the two dying? What happened to Kakashi's concern about this from the last chapter?

Whatever happened to the Naruto who had the intention of saving Sasuke while alive? Whatever happened to the Sakura who persisted on helping Naruto regardless of the extent to her abilities? What happened to the concerned Kakashi from the previous chapter?

And yeah, don't remind me of obvious conclusion to the series (that Naruto lives. duh!). That still doesn't change the fact that this is some serious character derailment. It leaves me wondering if Kishi is even that aware of the character he created all the way back at the start of part 1 (i.e. that BS about Naruto hating the villagers until Iruka came around doesn't support the actual events of the series, given that we've been reminded multiple times that both him and Gaara simply possessed feelings of loneliness. Sasuke is the only one who had any hatred and that was due his brother's words). I realize that this is just a fictional series aimed at people well below my age group, but c'mon!

B

What is up with Sakura? What happened to this "year of Sakura" which Kishi promised? Is this really it for her character? First, she tells Naruto call off the POAL (don't even get me started on this one alone). After that, we see all of this hype about what she is going to do Sasuke. Kishi had Sakura talking some serious game (like she was gonna kill Sasuke). Fans jumped for joy realizing that this could really redeem her character. Everyone knew she was far below Sasuke's level, but her confidence suggested she had everything covered. After so much build up and anticipation, we get the long awaited confrontation between her and Sasuke. What does she do? Besides cry and get rescued twice? Not a damn thing. I'm not a feminist or anything of the sort, but really can't stand how weak and pathetic Kishi makes the females of the series (especially the main heroine). To top it all off, she finally accepts what all of the disgruntled fans have been saying about her and agrees to let Naruto handle Sasuke.

So basically, what is Sakura good for as of now when it comes to the overall story? I hate to say it, but without POAL or having a part in saving Sasuke, she serves just as much purpose as the rest of the no name characters in this series who are usually fodder that make bad guys look better or panel filler. At best, the only edge she might have is the potential to be pairing fodder or shock material (her getting killed could be used as a cheap plot device to make Naruto go kyuubi).


As of now, I really can't say I'm that fond of Naruto, Sakura or Sasuke as characters. Sasuke gets too much screen time (although I could appreciate him as a villain if he were executed more in the fashion his was when he "killed" Kairin), Naruto is just not who he used to be as a character (this stuff about accepting death with Sasuke hit the nail in the coffin) and Sakura suffers the curse of forever being under developed character. I still like Kakashi and Shikamaru though and look forward to what Kishi does with them. I still like the idea of NaruSaku too, but don't see it being executed as well as the people on this forum generally like to believe (if we do get a scene, it'll probably be brief and left up to interpretation). I suppose that's what fanfics are for.

/end rant.

Bring on the hate mail!

Edited by Kenny-kun, 19 March 2010 - 04:44 AM.

[Dreamer]

I don't think members will hate you for bringing that up and actually we did talked about those parts. I think Naruto was mainly testing to see if Sasuke would give in, but unfortunately he didn't. As for Sakura we know everything inspiring to her came from Naruto so the only thing I can think Sakura was referring to was a peaceful solution between Naruto and Sasuke, which we all know won't happen with Madara's plans.

Edited by Uzumakikage, 19 March 2010 - 05:07 AM.

[Insurrection]

Anyone else find it interesting that Kabuto just so happens to reappear in the story at the same time that the Leaf has taken custody of Karin? I had originally though that her healing abilities were going to be her contribution to the story, but now it may be her knowledge of Orochimaru. That's not to say that she won't have some impact on NaruSaku as well.

I smell filler....or inclusion...I don't know.

Who's to say Karin won't become a Naruto/Sakura shipper herself?

It'd be funny if Karin asked if Naruto was Sakura's boyfriend, but too fanfic-ish.

[catsi563]

actually she very well may ask exactly that. though itll be mroe along the lines of "So how long you too been going out?" or "how long have you two been boyfriend and girlfriend."

que embarrassment etc and narusaku moment.

[Kenny-kun]

I don't think members will hate you for bringing that up and actually we did talked about those parts. I think Naruto was mainly testing to see if Sasuke would give in, but unfortunately he didn't.

A pleasant thought, but I don't see anything indicating that in the chapter. Naruto seems tied to his words as we saw with his passionate response to Kakashi at the end of the previous chapter. Not to mention that Sakura is not the least bit skeptical. Besides, if Naruto were merely testing Sasuke, he'd have no reason to point out that things would be better for the two of them in the after life.

As for Sakura we know everything inspiring to her came from Naruto so the only thing I can think Sakura was referring to was a peaceful solution between Naruto and Sasuke, which we all know won't happen with Madara's plans.

Heheh. Nah, it'll happen via talk-no jutsu. If anything, Naruto will convince madara himself to change his ways (given that their goals are ultimately the same). It's Kabuto who is probably going to be the final villain.

[Anewhope2]

Or perhaps it falls into what Naruto said with Pain. "Violence and revenge only leads to more violence and revenge. If that happens the circle of hate will not stop." Naruto is breaking the circle and not getting mad over it, even though some might say it is justifiable for him to do so.

He knows that getting revenge will not change the past. He has to keep moving forward and keep surviving.

That is what is different about Naruto. Even though so much bad stuff has happened to him, revenge is not the way to make it better. It only makes things worse. Sasuke on the other hand. Revenge is the only thing driving him now.

Two people who start out the same way end up going two different paths

Good point, I totally missed that.

[Codus N]

I have a feeling that we may get another rescue arc soon. We'll also get probably another Chiyo. KB being saved by Naruto might probably get Naruto on the good side of the Raikage & allowing him to deal with Sasuke personally. If there's a repeat of Chiyo, I sure hope KB will still be badass even without Hachibi.

[KungFuTruffle]

I have a feeling that we may get another rescue arc soon. We'll also get probably another Chiyo. KB being saved by Naruto might probably get Naruto on the good side of the Raikage & allowing him to deal with Sasuke personally. If there's a repeat of Chiyo, I sure hope KB will still be badass even without Hachibi.

I don't think you need to worry about Kirabi being awesome without the Hachibi. He wasn't using it when he skewered Sasuke with all of his swords, remember? The only reason Sasuke lived through that was thanks to Karin, as well as his Main Character Status.

[narukunsakuchan]

I don't think you need to worry about Kirabi being awesome without the Hachibi. He wasn't using it when he skewered Sasuke with all of his swords, remember? The only reason Sasuke lived through that was thanks to Karin, as well as his Main Character Status.

this is true lol gotta love bee damn Sasuke pisses me off almost every fight he goes into he should die but main-character-no-jutsu lets him live

[Dreamer]

I got through reading sleepy fans trans, Sakura still say's "all i can do is have faith in them". When Naruto gets up off the ground she asks him if he'll be okay instead of making a statement, everything else still looks similar to binktopia. It's worth reading to see some other changes.

Edited by Uzumakikage, 19 March 2010 - 07:52 AM.

[tricksie]

I'm not a feminist or anything of the sort, but really can't stand how weak and pathetic Kishi makes the females of the series (especially the main heroine).

Pssst...Feminist isn't a bad word.

As a second wave feminist (I won't go into definitions, but this is the standpoint your coming from too so I would highly suggest looking it up), I find Sakura's characterization offensive because she is still treated as a damsel in distress, not a self-actualized hero.

A perfect example of the difference would be to contrast Sakura with Katara from AtLA. Katara grows throughout the series and by the end is well set in her skills as a fighter and as a woman. It is most noteable that she flouts a men-only fighting tradition to pursue her goals, but that isn't a requirement for becoming a heroine.

In Sakura's case, it's not a men-only attitude or tradition that's holding her back — she has to overcome some internal struggle to realize her own potential and rely on herself in all situations. We can argue for days about what her motives and obstacles are, but right now it seems to be all internal.

But there is hope! As we're talking about this chapter, I must say I was HAPPY see Sakura recognize in herself what we holds her back. But in this moment, she still falls short.

"Naruto...has made his own decision....Unlike my own weak will...!! I'm supposed to be a ninja, but all I do is cry and rely on Naruto...I thought I'd shaken that off when I came here...But I couldn't do it....I can't do anything. I can't say anything. All I can do...is have faith in them."

Down side: In this moment she doesn't take the leap to how she can personally change things. She resigns herself to watch. She actually declares that she will be passive!

So, Instead of recognizing Naruto's strong will and resolving strengthen her own, she castigates herself then says I don't have what it takes, I will just let them handle it.

Kishi had Sakura talking some serious game (like she was gonna kill Sasuke). Fans jumped for joy realizing that this could really redeem her character. Everyone knew she was far below Sasuke's level, but her confidence suggested she had everything covered. After so much build up and anticipation, we get the long awaited confrontation between her and Sasuke. What does she do? Besides cry and get rescued twice? Not a damn thing.

So this little window into Sakura's character was hopeful and disappointing at the same time. As readers/viewers, we want her to be self-actualized so bad! But she has not taken the big leap — yet. I still think there is more planned and I still think she can grow and become a strong character that can stand next to Naruto and maintain her identity and feminity.

But we have to take into account cultural difference and personal beliefs of the creator. He may only see women as either loving and somewhat submissive (Hinata), or powerful but unable to keep love (Tsunade), or sexual and untouchably domineering (Karin). And woe be to you if you get pregnant, miss ninja. Potato sack aprons and daily hospital visits are all you have left! (I'm looking at you Kurenai.)

I am curious to see how Kishi will characterize Naruto's mother. She was loud and tomboyish, which is quite unlike any of the other female characters, and she is referred to with a measure of pride or nostalgia. Will this be a model of how to combine being powerful and self-actualized with being loved and recognized?

As for Sakura, I don't care so much about her getting in the middle of Naruto and Sasuke's fight. This really is between them. I would like to see her work and train, strive to increase her own ability, and take out some villians on her own. And not a female villian. And not defeating a villian with another person's help. But really go up against some baddies and be able to rely on her own strength. Unequivocally.

But this may not be how Kishi plans for Sakura to surpass Tsunade. Sakura's ultimate destiny may be to have a little more love and a little less power (not strength, per se, but ruling authority), whereas Tsunade could not have both. Which is fine. *sigh* But as a second wave feminist, it rings hollow to my ears.

So, as this whole chapter seemed to be the resolution to one arc and the beginning of another, I am choosing to take Sakura at face value. If she is leaving it to them, letting the boys duke it out, then maybe she can let go and improve herself for the best reason of all — to become a better ninja simply for herself. Wthout the external drive of Sasuke or Naruto. That would mean her hero's journey has just begun. *fingers crossed*

[ciardha]

So this little window into Sakura's character was hopeful and disappointing at the same time. As readers/viewers, we want her to be self-actualized so bad! But she has not taken the big leap — yet. I still think there is more planned and I still think she can grow and become a strong character that can stand next to Naruto and maintain her identity and feminity.

But we have to take into account cultural difference and personal beliefs of the creator. He may only see women as either loving and somewhat submissive (Hinata), or powerful but unable to keep love (Tsunade), or sexual and untouchably domineering (Karin). And woe be to you if you get pregnant, miss ninja. Potato sack aprons and daily hospital visits are all you have left! (I'm looking at you Kurenai.)

I am curious to see how Kishi will characterize Naruto's mother. She was loud and tomboyish, which is quite unlike any of the other female characters, and she is referred to with a measure of pride or nostalgia. Will this be a model of how to combine being powerful and self-actualized with being loved and recognized?

But this may not be how Kishi plans for Sakura to surpass Tsunade. Sakura's ultimate destiny may be to have a little more love and a little less power (not strength, per se, but ruling authority), whereas Tsunade could not have both. Which is fine. *sigh* But as a second wave feminist, it rings hollow to my ears.

Well, no, it's not that she couldn't have it, it was the violent world they live in that took love away from her, which is what happens to a lot of characters male and female. She had love with Dan for several years and she was quite ready, (once she finally saw through the game Jiraiya had been playing all those years- he finally let his mask over his feelings slip) to have a relationship with Jiraiya.

Chiyo was married and had a child and grandson, lived a long (for the violent world they live in) life and was strong and competent. Yoshino (Shikamaru's mother) may be a "housewife" but we know she's the powerful one in the relationship, Shikaku answers to her and seems quite comfortable with her being the "dominant" one in their relationship. (it's a more equitable extension of the 20th century Japanese household like Kishimoto would have grown up in. Where the wife did make household decisions but acted deferential to her husband- what Fugaku and Mikoto's relationship looked to be) And we hear from Shikaku (and later Jiraiya) that men are best in relationships with emotionally strong women. (Kishimoto has a kind of John Stuart Mill/Ashley Montagu sensibility)

Konan as well, although not the fighter Nagato or Yahiko were, appears to be emotionally stronger than either. We see some of that in Sakura too, plus Sakura can be a strong fighter at times- she took down the giant centipede in one blow that male Jonin ninja were fleeing from, and we know those animal summons were extremely powerful from other characters battles with them. The destruction of Konoha arc actually was probably the best Kishimoto has ever written Sakura: she was strong, intelligent, compassionate.

Edited by ciardha, 19 March 2010 - 04:07 PM.