Not really. I just used Osama bin Laden as an example of that type evil leadership. Stalin was the same type leader, just using a non religious ruthless ideology- a ruthless ideology is a ruthless ideology. I only used Osama bin Laden as my example rather than Stalin because Stalin's been dead for a number years and even to my generation was kind of a vague historical figure. But if it makes the comparison I'm making clearer, without muddying the image with religious contexts, Stalin makes a good comparison. I'm not talking about the totally crazy evil type dictators like Pol Pot or Idi Amin- the monstrously evil leaders that were the center of news coverage when I was growing up- but a leader true to a ruthless ideology capable of swaying a population to enthusiastically follow that ideology. It's a much scarier evil because of that- it's not so crazy that most people outright reject it, but sways many to follow it. But those that vocally reject that ideology are eliminated in the same ruthless way that Pol Pot or Idi Amin used on the entire population of their countries, scaring others that disagree with the ruthless ideology into silence. This is what Stalin did in the Soviet Union. Danzo has done something as ruthless with Root members with that curse seal on their tongues and making them believe they must have no emotions, no bonds with others. (Note as well how Danzo looks suspiciously at Sai when he only asks a question of him- definitely makes me think of some of the stories I heard about Stalin.)
Dictator is probably a much better word for Danzou. However, I believe you are looking at it as if they were in the modern world we are in, which is not the case. The world the story takes place in is more of a feudal type of place. The ninja are somewhat of a military faction that works independently of the actual country. They have their own separate leader and their own separate jobs. The daimyo comes in to give his nod to the new hokage and then leaves things to them. The ninja are meant to be tools. The ninja go to war, the ninja kill; their hands are meant to be bloody, so that the civilians can lead a more peaceful life. However, they create a loyalty to their own hidden villages, and even have pride in what they are meant to do. Danzou is extremely loyal and extremely proud. Where loyalty is usually a good trait to have, he is loyal to the point where he becomes ruthless. But I think Danzou is probably the way he is because he has known sacrifice. He knows what ninja go through in order to create peace. He was talking to Sasuke about what Itachi had to do for peace, and was mad Sasuke was ruining it, ruining that sacrifice. Sasuke sees it differently; he believes that there is nothing worth that sacrifice, not even peace. They are obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum here. But I can't really call Danzou evil. At least, he hasn't done anything, within the world they are in, that would seem evil to me. Really, he is one of the less selfish villains. Orochimaru only wanted power for himself, he was undoubtedly evil. Madara only wants power for himself because he holds a grudge against Konoha, he is also evil. Sasuke wants power so everyone can feel his hatred. He may give the excuse that he does things for Itachi, but it is really for himself. Danzou does things for Konoha, so I think it's a bit different.
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Hashirama was a generation older than Danzo, Koharu and Homura. Also look back to the founder of the ninjas, the beliefs that Hashirama passed down were quite close to his. What Kishimoto has set up is two competing ways, the way of the Rikudou Sennin which the Senju clan tried to follow, and that of the Uchiha which is of the same ruthless ideology that Danzo follows (I still wonder if Danzo wasn't Madara's student since they use much the same tactics) so Hashirama's way is actually more "old school" than Madara's or Danzo's. Hiruzen improved on Hashirama and Tobirama's way, and Tsunade improved on Hiruzen's, each step bringing them closer to the Rikudou Sennin's ideal. But yes, we've heard from Jiraiya, Nagato and Minato that the ninja system itself has to end for real peace to happen, and we know Naruto will be the one who does this.
I would believe that old school was peaceful if there hadn't been so many ninja wars in such a short time. Obviously things were anything but peaceful. While the Senju were less ruthless than the Uchiha, that doesn't mean they were not ruthless at all. And their warring only could breed more hatred, more trouble, more people like Danzou who cannot see a world without war, without anger or hatred. Even to me now, Naruto's vision of peace in a ninja world seems impossible. That's why I'm really interested to see how kishi handles it.
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I believe I understand your conclusions though, and you make good points- shows me where I need to try to clarify my points. I'm not that great at debating like you are.
Have you had classes on how to debate? I didn't because I have a strong personal dislike for conflict- I became a fan of John Lennon and Yoko Ono when I was 12 because they shared my dreams and ideals, and consider them my mentors. I'm passionate in my beliefs like they were/are, but like them I ultimately believe conflict is pointless. (so of course I totally love this concept is playing a strong role in part 2 of the manga.)
No, I've never taken any classes on debate. I like to write, however, and trying to get out exactly what I think is a fun challenge sometimes.
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I definitely did like your strong stand against Sasuke being with anyone because of the type person he is- even before this latest chapter sent shockwaves through the fandom. I wasn't quite as strong on that point, but when you posted, it made me wonder silently if Kishimoto wasn't going to make sasukarin a plotline about how it's not a good thing for a girl stay with a destructive minded guy, even if he does have some small attraction to her. This chapter seems to answer that question. I wonder if he'll have Karin make a break with Sasuke- if she is still alive, or will he continue the pattern like it sadly happens all too often in real life, and she'll stay with him because she's in love with him. Will she break free or will she become a tragic figure that truly dooms herself? What do you think?
Well, I would sincerely hope that Karin knows better than to stay with Sasuke. I don't care what his excuse is for doing it, you do not just forgive someone for doing such a thing. And it was such a symbolic move as well, being stabbed through the heart (not going to debate whether this is true or not, that is the visual kishi set up for the time being), by the very person you love. Kishi created excellent imagery in that respect, and really opened up a likely possibility of Karin leaving Sasuke's side. I don't believe she is just meant to be tragic, or at least I hope not. Sakura has already covered that position, in a way, being scorned by him after confessing and yet caring about him anyways. Also, this whole scenario was hinted at in the recent interview. Kishi said something big would happen to taka. I'm taking that to mean the team wont ever be the same again (either through Karins death or her abandoning Sasuke). I think she will abandon Sasuke.
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