224 replies to this topic

[Derock]

But one has to notice that Naruto does not have a year to act, but only a few days or weeks. He has a traitor out loose, a organisation hell bent on world domination , and a missing Enka singer slash container. I think that Naruto does have the quick thinking but again the Kages won't bend over to give him the rule as Tsuchikage and Raikage would defy the rule of , in their eyes, in experienced commander, Naruto has never lead anything outside his own Kage Bushins and Konohamaru Co.

To learn he could have the Kage Bushins read volumes upon volumes of books such as the famed "Art of War" if they had it. And using Kakashi and Yamato as advisors would be the thing that would help Naruto, but again it comes down to him as a leader and when it comes to sudden decisions that require immediate action and encompass the actions of the Super Alliance.

Assuming that Naruto becomes the leader, not only would he need to get the Raikage and Tsuchikage to support him but also to get the Jonins of those countries and their allegiance. Then he would need to make a quick decision on what, when and how to do in the matter of Akatsuki and Sasuke, and I don't think that his "soft" approach to Sasuke will pass with those who want his head (Raikage's people).

Yeah, he does have alot on his plate... but you forgot something, Naruto's ability to change people. It had work on Chiyo and it will definitely work on both Kages, it just take some time...

... and I forgot about another example from Babar. I remember watching this whole episode about Babar forming an animal alliance to stop the hunter once and for all. And I recalled he had trouble with them because everyone want their needs out first and many was planning on eating each other, not to mention Rataxes trying to take over the alliance...

As I said, it can happen, but then again...

[Daidoji_Tangen]

Lots of good replies here already

I didn't realize people would give Ino such a hard time... I don't know what she's thinking, but deciding on killing a former crush isn't easy. Maybe she's got another reason though.

Since things have progressed this far, just "getting Sasuke back" would start a load of problems, mainly with the other villages.
If there is another attempt it will probably the last. Seems Naruto is also sitting on needles and is running out of reasons not to view Sasuke as criminal.
In my opinion that was a slow process but we've only seen a small part of it until now.
Be that as it may knowing Shikamaru's efficiency their team will have a good chance of succeeding.

Sasuke... I'm not sure whether he's got a secret plan or really is like a leaf caught in a current. It seems to be the latter...
I wonder what's going through his mind, with his reckless approach of invading the meeting. Sure, Zetsu's entrance (which was creepy and awesome) and the ensueing chaos might work in his favor but we're talking about 5 Kage and 10 bodyguards... (!)

Lastly... They're running out of trustworthy people at the meeting... Danzou screwed up big-time. Raikage has a secret agenda (actually I'm equally cautious of him and Danzou... Seriously what's with "I won't be part of an alliance which will make me reveal my village's plans!")
While Naruto would be a logical candidate, I doubt he'd be accepted. They're not even acknowledging him, it's just "the Kyuubi belongs to Konoha". Before they see him as more than a weapon, it probably won't happen.
Looks like the only thing that could get them to work together is a direct attack by Akatsuki..

Sasuke....Sasuke just isn't that smart. Oh, he has some brains. He just lets his passions take over and charges in there randomly. Sadly, the Deidara fight seemed to be only a fluke. Look at a few chapters ago. He was surprised he went right through Madara again. Was he expecting a different effect?

I think when Naruto learns why Sasuke is doing what he is doing, he'll understand if not knowing what to do. I kinda suspect him to beat Sasuke, and let him go after he learns about the Uchiha clan. But I have been wrong before.....

About your last paragraph, three observations:

1. While Raikage definitely has something going on, he may not be malicious. He told Naruto he sees the world as only war. He could be plotting something, or he could just be paranoid about when Cloud will be attacked.

2. I think it was only Danzo/Mifune referring to Naruto like that. While the Mizukage's statements show no particular worry for the junchuuriki, they will not necessary see Naruto as a tool. I think their meeting Naruto will have an effect on that.

3. An attack that is happening. I believe Danzo could be working with the Akatsuki (he clearly has no problem allying with enemies to Konoha: see Orchimaru), and an attack would help his cause. I think someone already brought it up in this Thread.

[canis]

Sasuke....Sasuke just isn't that smart. Oh, he has some brains. He just lets his passions take over and charges in there randomly. Sadly, the Deidara fight seemed to be only a fluke. Look at a few chapters ago. He was surprised he went right through Madara again. Was he expecting a different effect?

I think he's trying to figure out Madara's powers from up close... He's a smart fighter, but most of the time he just doesn't bother looking at things in detail (I guess that's one of the reasons Itachi could still fight him to that extent in the shape he was in). He, like Naruto used to sometimes, let's his emotions get the better of him... And sometimes he just seems to not give a damn...
That unfortunately doesn't make him a good leader...

I think when Naruto learns why Sasuke is doing what he is doing, he'll understand if not knowing what to do. I kinda suspect him to beat Sasuke, and let him go after he learns about the Uchiha clan. But I have been wrong before.....

About your last paragraph, three observations:

1. While Raikage definitely has something going on, he may not be malicious. He told Naruto he sees the world as only war. He could be plotting something, or he could just be paranoid about when Cloud will be attacked.

That's true... But unless this is clarified once, I guess he was the one who staged the Hyuuga incident. It would fit his character to ask for reparations for a killed subordinate.
And I'm sure he had his reasons for that, apart of getting his hands on a powerful bloodline limit. Not even him would risk war so soon after one of the great ninja wars without a very good reason.
I think he's suspicious. And his talk about how there shouldn't be compromises or concessions, doesn't further my trust in him.

But his last line that Naruto should "think long and hard on what he ought do right now" (in 457) makes me wonder... It looks like he gave Naruto a hint how to get his acknowledgment.

2. I think it was only Danzo/Mifune referring to Naruto like that. While the Mizukage's statements show no particular worry for the junchuuriki, they will not necessary see Naruto as a tool. I think their meeting Naruto will have an effect on that.

Maybe... But this seems to be the usual outlook one jinchuuriki... Konoha's advisors are similar.
Naruto will have to prove himself I think...

3. An attack that is happening. I believe Danzo could be working with the Akatsuki (he clearly has no problem allying with enemies to Konoha: see Orchimaru), and an attack would help his cause. I think someone already brought it up in this Thread.

That's true... Danzou didn't seem surprised when Pain attacked and was already prepared to make his move. At least he's got a lot of intel on Akatsuki.

[Shadowmoon~]

To put it simply, Sasuke lost his common sense, and his rational way of thinking.

Charging randomly, with only the thought of defeating his enemies, is stupid. Sasuke has really changed, and only Naruto and Sakura can beat up sense into him.

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Does the Madara = Danzou theory still hold?

Anyway, since Ao saw that Danzo's Sharingan was transplanted from Shisui, does that mean it was Danzo who really killed Shisui?

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Let's consider this POSSIBILITY. <-- It's only a theory, so please don't take it too seriously.

What if Danzou was really Madara, and Shisui is his brother?

Madara taught Itachi, right? As his master. As his teacher. As his sensei.

And, even helped him massacre his own clan.

But before all that happened, Madara told Itachi about the Mangekyou Sharingan.

Madara got it by killing his brother, (which I say can be Shisui), and taking his eyes --> In this case, his right eye.

We all thought that Itachi got it by killing Shisui, (which can be his bestfriend, since Madara would teach Itachi, and Shisui would visit them to see Itachi's progress, but, Shisui is already dead since he was killed by Madara ages ago. ).

But what would have happened if Itachi really got the Mangekyou Sharingan not by killing Shisui, (who is already dead), but by killing his own clan, so he can get the Mangekyou to 'defeat' Madara/Danzou, and prevent the destruction of the Konoha village?

I know that it is a crazy theory, but I'm just throwing possibilities, because I was also confused, and tried to think about it as well.

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Summary --> Madara's brother = Shisui ;;; Madara's student = Itachi ;;; Itachi's 'supposed -to-be' bestfriend from who he got his MS from = Shisui ;;; But, in my insane theory, Itachi got his MS not from killing Shisui, but by killing his own clan --> The people he loved so much.

Since, Shisui was already killed by Madara/Danzou to get his unique ability.

Who can actually manipulate other people without the victim knowing what is really happening? That would be VERY awesome. Madara/Danzou would love to get his hands on that ability.

(Maybe he was jealous, that Shisui got that uber amazing ability but he did not, and he wanted more?)



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Don't get mad at me, please. Haha.

Feel free to state your opinions on this. I don't mind. Just please, don't react so harshly, that I would feel like you're screaming at me.

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Edited by Shadowmoon-Sakura, 10 August 2009 - 10:37 AM.

[pizza_blade]

Why do people think that Ino crying is a signal that she still holds a feeling towards Sasuke? I am not even sure about that "still" part since I think she never had any feelings for him whatsoever--just fan-girl crush, nothing more. Hahaha, she's even more worried about Chouji's condition than Sasuke running to Orochimaru back at the Chasing Sasuke saga.

I personally think she cries because she is very considerate towards Sakura's feelings... meaning that she as one of Sakura's closest friends thought that they now have to kill a person she thought Sakura still in love with. And that's why she's crying; because she can't bear of doing something that she think will bring a lot of more pain to Sakura.

Really, I am confused how people can construe that scene as 'she still loves Sasuke'.

Edited by pizza_blade, 10 August 2009 - 10:58 AM.

[NaruSaku93]

i think ino is crying because like u said, she is considerate towards sakuras feelings. she probably still thinks sakura is still in love with sasuke. but i dont think sakura has any more strong feelings for sasuke. naruto and sakura had so much development and it seems that sakura has feelings for him by the way her attitude has changed with him.

i think people see ino's crying as a sign of feelings towards sasuke because like everyone is saying, she had feelings for sasuke too during part 1. no one can be sure who has feelings for who..... its confusing and who knows, kishimoto can make ino all of a sudden confess that she still has feelings for sasuke, but i don't think it will happen. kishimoto likes to trick people

[Dreamer]

Why do people think that Ino crying is a signal that she still holds a feeling towards Sasuke? I am not even sure about that "still" part since I think she never had any feelings for him whatsoever--just fan-girl crush, nothing more. Hahaha, she's even more worried about Chouji's condition than Sasuke running to Orochimaru back at the Chasing Sasuke saga.

I personally think she cries because she is very considerate towards Sakura's feelings... meaning that she as one of Sakura's closest friends thought that they now have to kill a person she thought Sakura still in love with. And that's why she's crying; because she can't bear of doing something that she think will bring a lot of more pain to Sakura.

Really, I am confused how people can construe that scene as 'she still loves Sasuke'.

Theirs no proof to say if she still likes/don't like Sasuke or if she thinks Sakura still likes Sasuke.

Theirs always gong to be a lot of neutralism (don't know exact thoughts) of 2nd rate characters like the other Rookies (not team 7). It took this long to know how the Rookies felt about Sasuke (Thanks to Sai and Shikamaru getting the rest of the rookies over the Sasuke brick wall ) so their will be some info released later on what Ino was crying about.

Edited by 6thHokage, 10 August 2009 - 02:59 PM.

[canis]

Post spoiler tagged for size --Click here to view--

To put it simply, Sasuke lost his common sense, and his rational way of thinking.

Charging randomly, with only the thought of defeating his enemies, is stupid. Sasuke has really changed, and only Naruto and Sakura can beat up sense into him.

---

Does the Madara = Danzou theory still hold?

Anyway, since Ao saw that Danzo's Sharingan was transplanted from Shisui, does that mean it was Danzo who really killed Shisui?

---

Let's consider this POSSIBILITY. <-- It's only a theory, so please don't take it too seriously.

What if Danzou was really Madara, and Shisui is his brother?

Madara taught Itachi, right? As his master. As his teacher. As his sensei.

And, even helped him massacre his own clan.

But before all that happened, Madara told Itachi about the Mangekyou Sharingan.

Madara got it by killing his brother, (which I say can be Shisui), and taking his eyes --> In this case, his right eye.

We all thought that Itachi got it by killing Shisui, (which can be his bestfriend, since Madara would teach Itachi, and Shisui would visit them to see Itachi's progress, but, Shisui is already dead since he was killed by Madara ages ago. ).

But what would have happened if Itachi really got the Mangekyou Sharingan not by killing Shisui, (who is already dead), but by killing his own clan, so he can get the Mangekyou to 'defeat' Madara/Danzou, and prevent the destruction of the Konoha village?

I know that it is a crazy theory, but I'm just throwing possibilities, because I was also confused, and tried to think about it as well.

---

Summary --> Madara's brother = Shisui ;;; Madara's student = Itachi ;;; Itachi's 'supposed -to-be' bestfriend from who he got his MS from = Shisui ;;; But, in my insane theory, Itachi got his MS not from killing Shisui, but by killing his own clan --> The people he loved so much.

Since, Shisui was already killed by Madara/Danzou to get his unique ability.

Who can actually manipulate other people without the victim knowing what is really happening? That would be VERY awesome. Madara/Danzou would love to get his hands on that ability.

(Maybe he was jealous, that Shisui got that uber amazing ability but he did not, and he wanted more?)



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Don't get mad at me, please. Haha.

Feel free to state your opinions on this. I don't mind. Just please, don't react so harshly, that I would feel like you're screaming at me.

---

Nice theory! There's only one thing that doesn't add up... Madara got his hands on the eternal Mangekyou Sharingan by first killing a person dear to him, and then stealing his brothers eyes.
If Shisui would be Madara's brother he'd be blind and would have had to steal a new pair of eyes first.
And the time of death for Madara's brother must be 50-60 years in the past (if not more)... No comparison to the 16 years that passed since the Uchiha massacre.

Edited by canis, 10 August 2009 - 03:23 PM.

[Shadowmoon~]

Post spoiler tagged for size --Click here to view--

Nice theory! There's only one thing that doesn't add up... Madara got his hands on the eternal Mangekyou Sharingan by first killing a person dear to him, and then stealing his brothers eyes.
If Shisui would be Madara's brother he'd be blind and would have had to steal a new pair of eyes first.
And the time of death for Madara's brother must be 50-60 years in the past (if not more)... No comparison to the 16 years that passed since the Uchiha massacre.

I also thought about that.

Ao had fought Shisui, right? So, that means that Shisui wasn't really that old.

Only middle-aged.

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> Itachi had trouble coping up with his blindness due to his Mangekyou Sharingan.

> Shouldn't Madara/Danzou have a hard time too, maybe getting weakened as well, even though it's an Eternal MS, due to the strong power that said MS holds?

> Shisui can also, (in this particular theory), may not have been Madara's brother, but someone who Madara was watching for a long time, due to his awesomely unique ability. He planned to take Shisui's eyes, to gain that certain ability, and strengthen his EMS.

> Madara/Danzo killed Shisui, and used Itachi to be the one to 'take the blame' for the 'killing'. So, Itachi had to use the 'Mangekyou Sharingan' reasoning for killing his best friend.

> Shisui must have been a very important ninja in Konoha, due to his ability, since Madara/Danzo had to cover his death with Itachi so there wouldn't be more complications.

> Itachi and Shisui are both geniuses and are Uchihas as well, so this can be part of the proof that they really have known each other, and possibly may have been the best of friends.

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Thanks canis-kun!

I guess that fits the timeline you gave me.

Thanks again!

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Hehe. I love making insane theories.

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Edited by Shadowmoon-Sakura, 10 August 2009 - 03:58 PM.

[Daniee]

Does the Madara = Danzou theory still hold?

No, considering both of them appeared in this chapter. Danzou is at the meeting, Madara is still with black Zetsu. So unless he can somehow constantly be in two places at once, it's a dead theory.

Another thing wrong with your theory is that Itachi was shown to already have Mangekyou Sharingan before he exterminated his clan here.

[catsi563]

The likelihood of the Madara being Danzo theory does have some merit. However it only holds water if; and this a big if. If teh theory of Tobi being some type of Sharingan produced Chakra projection holds water.

There is some evidence to support this theory as the Akatsuki use a similar projection ability so that all 9 of them can seal the tailed beasts with out being present in the same location, and their is the technique that Pein used to shapeshift two of Sasoris puppets into itachi and kisame to fight Naruto and Team Gai.

with the sharingans ability to copy jutsu as long as neither the projection ability, or the shapeshift technique are blood traits then the sharingan could copy them and if so then it is entirely feasable that Danzo could very well be Madara hiding in plain sight as Danzo and seeing and hearing through tobis eyes and ears, as well as using Tobis comical atttitude as another layer of disguise.

Deception is the Shinobis lifeblood and if this theory holds up then Madara has pulled off one of the greatest deceptions of all time right under everyones noses.

[Nee-sama]

i think ino is crying because like u said, she is considerate towards sakuras feelings. she probably still thinks sakura is still in love with sasuke. but i dont think sakura has any more strong feelings for sasuke. naruto and sakura had so much development and it seems that sakura has feelings for him by the way her attitude has changed with him.

i think people see ino's crying as a sign of feelings towards sasuke because like everyone is saying, she had feelings for sasuke too during part 1. no one can be sure who has feelings for who..... its confusing and who knows, kishimoto can make ino all of a sudden confess that she still has feelings for sasuke, but i don't think it will happen. kishimoto likes to trick people

Don't forget that both Ino and Sakura liked/loved/crushed on Sasuke before they even graduated Ninja Academy. Liked him enough that their best-friend relationship turned into a bitter rivalry... up until their fight in the Chuunin exam.

Ino did seem to grow far enough apart from Sasuke that her sentiments never showed, which is why people are a bit flabbergasted to see her crying. I think it was because she had a close relationship with her Team 10 that she didn't show heartbreak like Sakura after Sasuke left the village.

As for now, like I posted before, she's not crying because her heart is so full of love and she's heartbroken. I think she's crying because she has to face this person as an enemy and bring him down. He was someone she grew up admiring, who was one of their own Konoha peers and now she needs to stop him even to the extent of killing him.

[Daidoji_Tangen]

The likelihood of the Madara being Danzo theory does have some merit. However it only holds water if; and this a big if. If teh theory of Tobi being some type of Sharingan produced Chakra projection holds water.

There is some evidence to support this theory as the Akatsuki use a similar projection ability so that all 9 of them can seal the tailed beasts with out being present in the same location, and their is the technique that Pein used to shapeshift two of Sasoris puppets into itachi and kisame to fight Naruto and Team Gai.

with the sharingans ability to copy jutsu as long as neither the projection ability, or the shapeshift technique are blood traits then the sharingan could copy them and if so then it is entirely feasable that Danzo could very well be Madara hiding in plain sight as Danzo and seeing and hearing through tobis eyes and ears, as well as using Tobis comical atttitude as another layer of disguise.

Deception is the Shinobis lifeblood and if this theory holds up then Madara has pulled off one of the greatest deceptions of all time right under everyones noses.

Reasonable. I would add that Danzo was once a separate entity in that case. He has grown up and grown in Konoha. People would notice otherwise. Of course, Danzo could have been taken over as a baby for what it matters.

But a crimp in that theory is Tobi being upset that Nagato used the resurrection jutsu on Konoha instead of him.

I personally think Madara is a ghost or his real body is basically dead and he needs to find another or some way at resurrection to regain his full power\ and he can use a sort of chakra projection like you said.

[catsi563]

But a crimp in that theory is Tobi being upset that Nagato used the resurrection jutsu on Konoha instead of him.

Not neccesarily Tobi was upset because Nagato used the resurection jutsu that he had wanted to be saved for him. The implication being that Should something somehow happen to Madara/Tobi, or should something happen to Danzo ((should the theory prove true)) he could have Nagato use the resurection Jutsu on him.

It is however possible that as you say Madara may in some fashion be pulling a voldemort. He may have been badly damaged and crippled during his fight with Hasharima and may be living a pitiful existence as a ghost or ghost of his former self, perhaps living Parasite like off of Danzo or someone similar.

[lolaMarie]

I see were most are coming from in relation to this whole Ino thing . I retract the harshness of my earlier post, I was just a tad bit fade up with all the crying. In reality who knows how much thought Kishi put into Ino's crying ? It would be funny if all these grand theories pile up for us to find out it was really just a 'meh why not' type of thing.

Seriously Ino drop kicking sakura in the middle of a battle, so she may save her 'Sasuke babe'. I wont say it wont happen ,but I seriously doubt it.

[NaruSaku93]

Don't forget that both Ino and Sakura liked/loved/crushed on Sasuke before they even graduated Ninja Academy. Liked him enough that their best-friend relationship turned into a bitter rivalry... up until their fight in the Chuunin exam.

Ino did seem to grow far enough apart from Sasuke that her sentiments never showed, which is why people are a bit flabbergasted to see her crying. I think it was because she had a close relationship with her Team 10 that she didn't show heartbreak like Sakura after Sasuke left the village.

As for now, like I posted before, she's not crying because her heart is so full of love and she's heartbroken. I think she's crying because she has to face this person as an enemy and bring him down. He was someone she grew up admiring, who was one of their own Konoha peers and now she needs to stop him even to the extent of killing him.

ooohhhhhh, i c what u mean. i guess i was just dancing around the tree for that one. i think that seems more logical because sasuke, a person who was once part of konoha and team 7 now has to be taking down by none other than them which is hard for them to except because he was their friend or someone that they admired. thanks for clearing that up

[Shadowmoon~]

No, considering both of them appeared in this chapter. Danzou is at the meeting, Madara is still with black Zetsu. So unless he can somehow constantly be in two places at once, it's a dead theory.

Another thing wrong with your theory is that Itachi was shown to already have Mangekyou Sharingan before he exterminated his clan here.

Itachi killing his clan to get the MS...has been scratched.

I see now that Itachi did get his MS before he exterminated his clan.

Thanks for the link, and the small research!

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I'll throw random goodies, for you guys to think about.

When Madara told the truth to Sasuke about the true nature of Itachi, didn't he mention something along the lines of :

' He killed his lover ' , or something like that...?

Could Itachi have gotten his MS from killing his girlfriend?

^
^
^

Weird theory, I know, I know.

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Sorry for not being able to post the exact page where Madara told Sasuke about Itachi's lover.

I have exams to study for, so I really don't have the time.

Sorry again.

Ja ne!

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Edited by Shadowmoon-Sakura, 11 August 2009 - 03:21 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Itachi killed Shishui in order to get the MS, it's the reason why the Konoha Police came to question him.

[Cloud]

Shishui's name is ironic.

It means 'Dead water' literally. And he gets drowned by Itachi in water.

[Shadowmoon~]

Gah. I can't fall asleep. D:

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I'm just testing some theories here...nothing special.

All I thought about was the connection between Danzou and Shisui, and look at what happened.



I tried using different scenarios from the manga, but, I'm not really that successful.

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