749 replies to this topic

[NeonRanger]

No.

 

I think it's way before, during the Pain Arc. I least that's where I felt that Sakura was dropping. More specifically when Hinata decided to "commit suicide". I wasn't expecting Sakura to jump in, but at the same time that moment was enough to get all NH wankers to go crazy over. The NS hug right after was satisfying, even seeing what I believed was Hinata's face of approval, my inner self knew that Kishi was going to bring in NH again. Then we still had Sasuke, so I knew it wasn't over yet. 

 

Imo, Sakura went downhill from Pain. Before Sakura use to share pain with Naruto/ and was more developed, like the chapter involving Naruto going four tails I believe. That was an amazing NS moment imo. Also with her growing relationship with Sai, and being less of her part 1 self. But suddenly during Pain, she unexpectedly took the back seat more than usual. And to be honest, I see ch. 436 deserving to be an NS moment rather than NH. Some shippers say that that moment was an NH closure, but that moment was too out of the left field. In part 2, up until ch.436, it has only been NS. Now all of a sudden Hinata confess her undying love for him?

 

That's where I felt that Kishi had second thoughts from his peers. It didn't bug me too much but it was annoying how Sakura took a unexpected back seat up until the last chapter of the Arc. I was cautious but okay after the Arc, but then it went downhill since than. I never seen any meaningful moment from Sakura since Pain, and any moment I seen was over shadowed by NH, SN, and even before than Shikamaru. I lover Shikamaru, but we never received an Arc or pivotal moment that solely focuses on Sakura's battles. Even Sasori's fight was cheap because he supposedly committed suicide, the only good point was seeing Sakura fight. I thought the Sasori battle was an intro into Sakura's future potential, rather than a battle I hope she'll win in the end. Kishi just drop Sakura's importance as one of the main characters/heroine after the Sasori fight, but her development was doomed since Pain.  

[NeonRanger]

Agreed.

It was pretty obvious that he forgot about her at some point and shifted focus to other characters. Which explains her lack of major fights and still inferior to the strength of her three teammates. Hell, I'm not sure if she even surpassed Tsunade

 

She did, but that's the problem. She's a Tsunade 2.0 but stronger. Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and even Hinata had their original power moves. Sakura having her own battle tactics would at least be decent for her character.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well said.

About Sasori, I swear, I thought the idea is to have Akatsuki hyped on how powerful they are. That may be the case at the time, but then everyone can solo. That bothered me.

[Legend054]

I agree Sakura is definitely in the top 5 of the worst characters in the series, probably the worst of all. I can't think of any characters that are worst than Sakura after the ending. Sakura's character, being the heroine was completely ruined and made to look pathetic as she accepted all the beatings from Sasuke instead of growing out of it to become a stronger woman.

[NeonRanger]

Sakura was ruined because of her reaction to Sasuke, but then we need to ask ourselves why SS as well as any Sasuke ship tbh (like SNS) are popular ships because it's pretty clear that any ship with Sasuke is toxic. Honestly, even if Sakura got over Sasuke, she would still be the worst character according to fandom. Kishi provided us nothing about Sakura to make us feel with her on a deeper level. I didn't want no sad backstory, I love that she's just an average ninja, but I find it careless that we saw her parents in a filler movie, and Kishi bother to attempt a backstory because she was so hated. Part 1 Sakura wasn't likable, her fight with Ino involved her breaking the friendship over a boy, and overall she was a horrible heroine in p. 1. Part 2 was Sakura's potential, but Kishinev just dropped it after Sasori. I would have been fine with SS, if I had a reason to know why Sakura decided to love that long, and Kishi would actually give a backstory on SS. I was okay with p. 1 SS, even though I wasn't a fan of Sakura. But p. 2 I saw NS and Sakura having potential to be on par with SN. But there was nothing about Sakura to get me to understand her, and I was left with little snippets of false potential that I fooled myself into believing that there could be more by reading a lot of FF and theories. After the ending I saw that overall Kishi did nothing for Sakura at all to get people to like her. And now she's just dropped into paring fodder, and now everything is SN. I can somewhat understand SN bond, but it's frustrating how it's everywhere and people are okay with Sakura being reduced into secondary fodder. I understand how people hate Sakura now, but why like SN? There are plenty of ships that ate healthier like NaruGaa. I don't understand the likability of toxic ships.

[Nar123]

I don't understand the likability of toxic ships.

People with mostly no experience in RL relationships generally like them

I'm not saying a toxic ship is necessarily bad though, if the author is good he can represent the ship as a bad thing but end up developing it in a healthy relationship

It seems Kishi acknowledges the horrible job he did with SS and Sakura in general and refrains from commenting that much about it, even Gaiden (which existed only to fix SS) didn't fixed anything about it

[TouKen4Life3g]

In hindsight, I agree that spelt doom for her, despite if it did happen earlier, most notably "I have to believe in them and do nothing." Back then, I guess I was naive that I didn't want to lose hope in Sakura and to have the writer to be the one neglecting is the last thing anyone wants.

Sadly, truth hit me hard.

[Bail o' Lies]

People with mostly no experience in RL relationships generally like them

I'm not saying a toxic ship is necessarily bad though, if the author is good he can represent the ship as a bad thing but end up developing it in a healthy relationship

It seems Kishi acknowledges the horrible job he did with SS and Sakura in general and refrains from commenting that much about it, even Gaiden (which existed only to fix SS) didn't fixed anything about it

He spent more time bashing it and point out a lot of the problem with the pairing, then actually doing anything positive with it.

[Nate River]

Team taka has the same purpose with sai and Yamato, a fill in. 

 

You'd first have to convince me fill-ins were needed, especially when their existence ran counter to Sasuke's beliefs at the time.

 

 

 

Statement: Itachi should have just leave Sasuke alone after the massacre.

Agree or disagree?

 

Depends on what you mean. Morally, obviously not.

 

Itachi's initial portrayal left the impression that he was the type of person who would do that because he could. So, if "good" Itachi was a decision that came later, then it fit his character.

 

"Good Itachi:" Agree. I can understand why Itachi would feel he should receive penance at the hand of his brother. I don't understand nurturing the whole hate and revenge then given how Itachi talks about it. But even if he feels that guilty and can't help himself, what on earth does the Tsukiyomi accomplish? Sasuke already demonstrated he was filled with hate when he tried to kill Itachi and Itachi demonstrated Sasuke's weakness by kicking his ass without effort. So, uh, if Itachi loves the guy why would he Tsukiyomi him when Sasuke was already doing what Itachi wanted? It makes no sense.

[VanitasDS76491]

Statement: Kishimoto claimed that he forgot about Sakura. That was a sign of doom and her character's reputation has no point of return.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree cause that's begin a bad writer and a dumbass even though he already is one.

[VanitasDS76491]

Kaguya is the worst. There is no character to speak of. We learn more about her in an exposition prior to her appearance than we do during her actual screen time. 

 

Sakura among the five worst? Disagree. 693 and its aftermath defeated the whole purpose of her character's journey, but she had good moments prior. I think the same could be said of Itachi, Naruto, and Kabuto and the ending ruined them too.

 

I guess for me it'd be:

 

1) Kaguya: hard worthy of being called a character. She was an escape hatch.

 

2) The Zetsu's: Was there ever any really effort to make the audience give a damn about these guys? Black Zetsu also assuming the role of designated kitten (see Danzo) just out of nowhere.

 

3) Team Not Seven: Characters who were allowed to linger around like a bad odor through part 2 despite them being largely without purpose. And then there was turning Karin's near death into comedy gold. Discovering the scroll by accident?

 

4) Danzo: I hate that he Kishimoto turned him into a designated kitten in order to minimize the reach of Konoha's bad acts.

 

5) The Edo Tensei's: Death never looked so cheap.

Kaguya is the Cloud of Darkness form FFIII and Necron form FFIX coming out of nowhere in and taking out the main villain like nothing. She could have been a good character if she wasn't introduce in the last 29 chapter since vol 72 is only 9 chapters long.

The Zetsu's were pointless and did nothing through out the whole series.

Danzo to me is the Hitler of the Naruto universe just how he is written and the only time I took Sasuke's side in the fight with Danzo though Danzo still won the fight since Sasuke didn't deliver the killing blow to Danzo like with Deidara and Itachi they died on their own.

The Edo Tensei really had no point really Obtio would have a better chance with the Chitauri form the Avengers movie.  

Itachi and Naruto and Sakura got ruined cause of the ending. Kabuto is the worst villain ever and should have died back in the Tsunade arc or the Techi Bridge arc or the pointless Sasuke and Itachi fighting him. 
 

[Catra]

i remember rooting for danzo when he was this close to cutting off sasukes head all pimp like until the "anger gives me strength!" cliche kicked in

[tricksie]

Statement: Kishimoto claimed that he forgot about Sakura. That was a sign of doom and her character's reputation has no point of return.

Agree or disagree?

You know, I think Kishimoto just says misleading or careless things in those interviews. After years of confusing and contradictory statements, I think he really said most of the things he did to throw people off. 

 

To me, reading 'I forgot about Sakura' I've always interpreted that to be 'I don't care about Sakura.' Because he didn't care about her or Hinata or the shipping or anything, and he's gotten testy over the fans insistence about them and the shipping over the years. He wanted people to focus on Naruto and Sasuke, and nothing else.

 

I don't think it spelled doom for Sakura specifically. Instead, I think it showed that Kishimoto just never really cared. And the audience just didn't know it yet. He has a very sexist view of women, and that was only solidified by the ending. I think Kishimoto had been undermining Sakura for a while, but really, there's no woman who came out on top. Not even Hinata, who became a cardboard cutout of a character. Any strong, independent female character was trashed in the end. 

 

I think Kishimoto's statement says more about him as writer than about Sakura's future in the story. He just didn't care. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: Disregard the title position such as heroine and amount of time, the overall shows that Hinata is a "better" character than Sakura. Think carefully and address why.

Agree or disagree?

[Nostradamus]

Statement: Disregard the title position such as heroine and amount of time, the overall shows that Hinata is a "better" character than Sakura. Think carefully and address why.

Agree or disagree?

No way in hell is that scumbag a better character than Sakura.

[TouKen4Life3g]

No way in hell is that scumbag a better character than Sakura.

Why is that?

[NeonRanger]

Statement: Disregard the title position such as heroine and amount of time, the overall shows that Hinata is a "better" character than Sakura. Think carefully and address why.

Agree or disagree?

 

What do you mean exactly with overall? Are you talking about how Hinata is presented by Kishi in his manga, or including SP and others outside the manga?

 

If your basing this on how Kishi depicts both Sakura and Hinata as the better character in manga, then I'll disagree.

 

If you're including outside the manga, like the anime, novels, games, etc... for overall I would agree. 

 

In NNS4, Hinata rescued Naruto from death, non-canon, and in adventure mode you had Sakura trash talking about how stupid he is, which is just an insult in how far Sakura had grown around Naruto when it comes to friendship alone. In the anime, Sakura couldn't decide whether to save Naruto and Sasuke, and is pretty much fickle overall in romance. Her headstrong attitude, is also exaggerated to the point where it is no longer humorous and even more insulting, especially after Pain. In the manga, after Part 2 Sakura still was stubborn, but later on became more soft hearted and open and independent. In the anime, she punches people just because. In the novels, she's no different from Hinata. Sasuke novel; mentions how she would follow Sasuke no matter what. Like what? 

 

For Hinata, in the anime alone she's a type of girl some poor sap might wank to. (I respect people who like Hinata, but not the ones who wank her like she's what made the manga). We already saw fm the exaggerated Pain vs. Hinata. Then you have omakes and extras of Sakura vs. Hinata in whose better, like the Heroine moment and cooking omake. And Sakura depicted as some bitter girl whose jealous at Hinata's sudden popularity while Hinata is the innocent girl that has no problem sharing popularity. In the novels, she's described as someone who can suit Naruto needs and Naruto will have no worry about being talked down upon or being treated badly/ being submissive compared to Sakura. 

 

I have more, but my phone is acting up. But outside the manga, Hinata is opposite of all the "bad" traits of Sakura, which is exaggerated beyond belief in anime and novels and games. Hinata was also given better traits as well, despite it not being canon. Kishi at least admitted he doesn't understand why Hinata was so popular while doing so little, so he was aware of how important Hinata was in the manga, which is very little.

[Nate River]

I think we'd first have to agree on what constitutes a "better" character. Without that, "better" will tend to be whoever the poster preferred.

 

Though, Sakura crashed and burned in 693, I'd go with Sakura. Sakura is, or rather was, a better defined character. She had desires and goals beyond "be with Sasuke." She was allowed to do thing that went beyond "be with Sasuke." Narutally, as the original heroine those things got flesh out more, but Hinata's never it got defined. What did Hinata want to do besides be with Naruto? Hinata's character has no separate existence outside of Naruto and is really limited because of it.

[Namikaze Clan]

Hmm, interesting question.

 

Sakura is still the better character because as Nate pointed out, she had goals and motives outside of a love interest.  Though I felt that Hinata had a more interesting backstory in regards to her conflict with her father and the Hyuga clan.

 

Despite everything that happened, Hinata never stole Sakura`s heroine status despite what some say.  She was still the most important female lead all the way till the end despite not ending up with Naruto. 

[SlyNinjaKnight]

Statement: Disregard the title position such as heroine and amount of time, the overall shows that Hinata is a "better" character than Sakura. Think carefully and address why.

Agree or disagree?

 

That's a tough question for sure. Both Sakura and Hinata are both so underdeveloped characters that there isn't much difference between the two. If you take the entirety of the manga, both Sakura and Hinata were only focused on getting their man, and nothing more. In the beginning, both Sakura and Hinata were mirror images of one another since they both wanted recognition (much like Naruto) and were bullied/picked on for a physical trait (Sakura-her forehead, Hinata-her eyes) and were considered weak and ended up having to work hard for their strength (though that was wiped away for Hinata in The Last film).

 

At least Sakura, up until the final 10 or so chapters of the manga, had some development to her character. We had seen some change in her from the annoying fangirl/comic relief by beating on Naruto when he did stupid stuff to the competent medical ninja who was seemingly on her way to surpassing Tsunade as the strongest kuniochi in history. Hinata had tons of potential for development as a character with her dream of gaining her clan's respect and destroying the Cage Bird Seal from her clan. But of course, Kishimoto (or whoever) shoved that aside for what? We never see anything from Hinata, aside from brief glimpses in filler episodes of the anime. 

 

So in the end, I think after everything, Hinata ended up as a better character only because she didn't have to be torn down in order for the story to be finished. Sakura's character was destroyed in order for Hinata's character to rise to the 'top'. But to be honest, both characters are terrible in a literary sense since both had a lot of potential for development and growth but the author/editors failed miserably to live them up to that potential.