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#161 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:24 PM

 

That's an interesting observation you made. You're right, he doesn't seem to be happy or content with this visionary world despite having the company of friends and associates to help him in his time of need. His expression seems to imply that he's just solemnly resigned himself to the fate he chose for himself. I didn't see any signs that he was all too happy about his life. It was almost like a procedural timeline of events without any emotional context that could make Tobi truly accepting of that particular life. 

 

I think this idiom is fitting for Tobi: "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." 

 

In relation to Tobi, you could interpret the meaning as a reference to his discontent in the life that he would have had. Achieving almost every dream he imagined and having all the support of his friends in the world yet it doesn't bring him true happiness. It's because Naruto's absolutist belief system and way of life aren't for everyone. Some people become so ingrained or dedicated to a particular aspect in their life that they can't handle losing it. To them it means more than anything else that ever lived. And even you if you try to imitate the features of someone who is happy, deep down inside you'll still feel empty. I think Tobi happens to be one of those sorts of people. Rin is so vital, so critical to his existence that not even Kakashi and everyone else who he knew could accommodate for the loss. 

 

I also think the fact that he retains the scars from the insertion of Zetsu's flesh into his body is also intended to serve as a representation of the artificiality of his life. Here this traumatised soldier who was supposed to die in the last great war is being kept together thanks to the efforts of a century old hermit renegade who he himself was presumed dead long ago. He's like an abomination whose only purpose in life now is to fulfill the hollowed out aspirations he once desired so intensively. He makes others around him happy but it's at his own expense. 

 

Those are just my thoughts... It wouldn't come as a surprise to watch Tobi become so conflicted and wrought with despair that he tries to kill himself out of sheer desperation. Should that happen, I would wonder how Naruto (and Kakashi) would react to that decision. Would they try to stop him for some reason or would they allow him to be put out of his misery?  

Agreed, he wasnt because he should have to fullfill everything and this include his promise to protect Rin, he failed on that, and this also mirrors to Naruto too.

That's how i think when ti comes to Obito he's the guy who's supposed to be dead, and the reason why he's not happy either with his plan or becoming kage is that he's not part of this world anymore.

 

 

 

 

It's not about fighting or healing to me. Kishi has done a very good job on her growth and development(that's a plus), but what piece is she in the current plot? I don't want to cut her out and notice nothing. I'm asking myself, as of currently; she is useful to the alliance, but is she useful for the plot/series? Please, anybody..give me an honest answer. Because it's like not even Kishi knows where she fits in anymore.

 

The reason I'm rooting for the Rin parallel is not first of all for NS, but because it would be something for Sakura. But that's a future theory, we're reading in the present.

 

The Obi/Rin parallel would be the only way for her to be relevant on the actual arc, not that she's not relevant on this arc Sakura is literally on the same ground as the k11 on this arc.

But i doubt it would happen because it would make NS canon but i wish it happen too.

 

Like i said before Sakura is connected to the team 7 and Naruto x Sasuke which is the main plot, i dont expect major relevance on this arc.


Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 16 October 2013 - 06:28 PM.

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#162 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:24 PM

 

It's not about fighting or healing to me. Kishi has done a very good job on her growth and development(that's a plus), but what piece is she in the current plot? I don't want to cut her out and notice nothing. I'm asking myself, as of currently; she is useful to the alliance, but is she useful for the plot/series? Please, anybody..give me an honest answer. Because it's like not even Kishi knows where she fits in anymore.

 

The reason I'm rooting for the Rin parallel is not first of all for NS, but because it would be something for Sakura. But that's a future theory, we're reading in the present.

I am actually wondering why Kakashi is connected with Obito now. Why now all of a sudden? Q_Q

 

There were hints before that Kakashi and Obito having some kind of shared vision through the sharingan, with Obito apparently being able to see Rin's death from Kakashi's point of view, but you're right, it is sudden. What caused them to become 'connected' at this moment and not before?

 

None taken, though to be honest, I think I like the chapter more than I thought the first time due to AoT soundtrack, so that was my fault. Now, well, I think it's decent but not that great or anything. I understand the purpose, but the chapter was short and all rely on one attack. I was hoping that's not the case but there you have it. It really relies on this one attack and if he continues to fight, then well, what's next.

 

Judging by your chapters you chose, you don't seem to like many people involved chapter. Well, I'm assuming because both of them has that. The funny thing is that many anime/manga has a moment of all friends join together and do one thing, so now Naruto finally got it. Well again, counting on the phoenix. I think many of us not used to multiple people in a scene in Naruto because it never happened till this arc. That or maybe imagine differently than what this chapter did. Hm, well I can see why people wants a simpler focus arc.

 

Ah, I see, but to be honest, not all of main character gets a role to be in the main story, rather than get dragged in. There are times that one character would be like "I'm so normal, but nothing amazing happens," but then always bump to the guy who has a lot of adventure that awaits him. Sakura falls to this, though she does fight and support, so those are differences. Though I would agree with you that we are jumping the gun too fast, so we have to wait. I remember how many jumped the gun on Sasuke being good, but look how that turns out. So now, it's up to Kishi to choose:

 

1) Obito: "Why? How can you defeat me? It's not possible!" Result: down and out.

Or

2) Obito: "No, I can't lose! I will achieve my world! Rin!" Result: not over.

 

So yeah, two paths. First will leave many disappointed that he's defeated this way. Second will leave many disappointed that the fight continues longer. So choose your side.

 

Yes, you are right in your assumption. When there's a bunch of characters involve in a battle against a single (or a couple) or enemies, it all feels very clumped together to me. And yeah, it is common to see a group rallying together for a single attack, but it is the way Kishi executes it that bothers me, it always just falls flat. I feel it's very much one of Kishi's weakest points as a writer, he simply does not do well with lots of characters to work around, I think, because he just doesn't know what to do with them and thus throws stuff like this together. I'm really hoping that the next arc will focus on a smaller group of key characters, instead of being filled with fodders and secondary characters like this one.


Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 16 October 2013 - 06:26 PM.


#163 sushi.

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:27 PM

This might end up being an unpopular opinion, but I did not like the chapter AT ALL. I can't even muster hate for it, I'm felt so indifferent, so unaffected reading it; Naruto and Sasuke combining their powers: Don't care. Rookies getting the cloak and using rasengan: Laughable.

 

I mean no offense to those who did enjoy it, but I thought it was just crap, I don't think I've ever reacted so negatively to a Naruto chapter, though 616-617 come in at a close second. I'm really just tired of this, and I'm not saying that as an "I'm done," or anything, so don't get the wrong idea. I just feel there are so many ways Kishi could have gone about this whole battle that could have been so much better than what he's turned out, times like this I think Kishimoto is a bored of this as readers are, it really just doesn't feel like he's trying. Fingers crossed that the next chapter will be better, but for now, I going to try get this drivel out of my head by reading some Soul Eater and Kekkaishi. -_-  

Does this have something to do with this chapter in particurlar, or is your patience growing thin? Which would be completely understandable, we all have different limits and many have reached their already.

 

But this was in my opinion a standard Naruto chapter, and the standard is low because the arc is bad.


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#164 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:36 PM


Yes, you are right in your assumption. When there's a bunch of characters involve in a battle against a single (or a couple) or enemies, it all feels very clumped together to me. And yeah, it is common to see a group rallying together for a single attack, but it is the way Kishi executes it that bothers me, it always just falls flat. I feel it's very much one of Kishi's weakest points as a writer, he simply does not do well with lots of characters to work around, I think, because he just doesn't know what to do with them and thus throws stuff like this together. I'm really hoping that the next arc will focus on a smaller group of key characters, instead of being filled with fodders and secondary characters like this one.

Yeah, that's the impression I get from Kishi when it comes to side characters. While the mental developments are good, especially Shikamaru, when it comes to involvement with many, it's usually there for a plot demand and not really needed but get the point across. Still, that's a problem. His strength is relied on his main characters or those who are behind a generation like Minato, Jiraiya, etc. Still, when this is over, we will get a much smaller focus, so it won't be that cluttered. Now you know my point on war in shounen series. Well, Jump at least.


Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 16 October 2013 - 06:37 PM.


#165 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:39 PM

Does this have something to do with this chapter in particurlar, or is your patience growing thin? Which would be completely understandable, we all have different limits and many have reached their already.

 

But this was in my opinion a standard Naruto chapter, and the standard is low because the arc is bad.

 

I suppose it's a little of both. This has become a pretty standard chapter, which is unfortunate, and the last couple of chapters have really grated me, but this one in particular felt so haphazard, and almost ridiculous. These big scale fights that go on and on just aren't my cup of tea, and this one is tiresomely repetitive. I'm just waiting to see where this goes right now, and hoping there is a light at the end of this endlessly long tunnel. To be totally honest, the last time I was really, truly excited for Naruto chapters was during Obito's reveal and flashback, even if there are some holes there that may never be filled.


Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 16 October 2013 - 06:42 PM.


#166 Kakashi-Sensei

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:39 PM

Why did Rin , probably the most important person in Obito's life , dosen't appear in his flashback of his friends...

 

And also why did Sakura , the most important person in Naruto life with Sasuke , isn't in the group of friends who help him.. I know she is healing folders but i think she deserve a place here at least...

 

Well kitten logic i guess ! 


Edited by Kakashi-Sensei, 16 October 2013 - 06:40 PM.

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#167 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

Why did Rin , probably the most important person in Obito's life , dosen't appear in his flashback of his friends...

 

And also why did Sakura , the most important person in Naruto life with Sasuke , isn't in the group of friends who help him.. I know she is healing folders but i think she deserve a place here at least...

 

Well kitten logic i guess ! 

 

I'm assuming it is because they are both being saved for something else. Their absence is suspiciously coincidental if you think about it.



#168 六道仙人

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:47 PM

As I've already told the last week, it's confirmed that Naruto will have lead color pages for chapter 652. And the WSJ preview is:

 

マダラが語る驚愕の真実!!その時ナルトは!?
Madara tells a shocking truth! And then Naruto willl!?


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#169 Hanabi

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:49 PM

Why did Rin , probably the most important person in Obito's life , dosen't appear in his flashback of his friends...

 

And also why did Sakura , the most important person in Naruto life with Sasuke , isn't in the group of friends who help him.. I know she is healing folders but i think she deserve a place here at least...

 

Well kitten logic i guess ! 

she is doing her role, with the power of her own, doing her part to take down the other big obstacle shinju. it doesn't seem impressive but it is just as important.


Edited by Hanabi, 16 October 2013 - 06:49 PM.

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#170 sushi.

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:49 PM

 

I'm assuming it is because they are both being saved for something else. Their absence is suspiciously coincidental if you think about it.

This might be a very good thing for Sakura, like you said it seems like KIshi don't know what to do with the rookies. Maybe..he know what to do with Sakura, maybe has a plan. Or maybe it's a coincidence, but if it doesn't happen I think it would be because he chose not to execute it after all.


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#171 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:51 PM

Why did Rin , probably the most important person in Obito's life , dosen't appear in his flashback of his friends...

 

And also why did Sakura , the most important person in Naruto life with Sasuke , isn't in the group of friends who help him.. I know she is healing folders but i think she deserve a place here at least...

 

Well kitten logic i guess ! 

Because this is about his world without Rin since she is dead and this is what could have been for him have he not gone in the different route altogether. It's also worth to note that no adults were there in his vision, so the focus was really about friends.

 

As I've already told the last week, it's confirmed that Naruto will have lead color pages for chapter 652. And the WSJ preview is:

 

マダラが語る驚愕の真実!!その時ナルトは!?
Madara tells a shocking truth! And then Naruto willl!?

Uh oh...



#172 六道仙人

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:53 PM

Why did Rin , probably the most important person in Obito's life , dosen't appear in his flashback of his friends...

 

And also why did Sakura , the most important person in Naruto life with Sasuke , isn't in the group of friends who help him.. I know she is healing folders but i think she deserve a place here at least...

 

Well kitten logic i guess ! 

 

Rin is dead even inside Obito's imagination... In fact, he and his friends were in front of her grave.

 

Sakura wasn't there simple because for two reason: 1)She's busy by keeping to give her chakra through the bykaugou seal to Katsuyu. 2)She isn't exactly a Naruto's friend. She is the love of his life. :hm:


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#173 T XD

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:54 PM

As I've already told the last week, it's confirmed that Naruto will have lead color pages for chapter 652. And the WSJ preview is:

 

マダラが語る驚愕の真実!!その時ナルトは!?
Madara tells a shocking truth! And then Naruto willl!?

Madara will deliver some news ? I like that XD



#174 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:54 PM

As I've already told the last week, it's confirmed that Naruto will have lead color pages for chapter 652. And the WSJ preview is:

 

マダラが語る驚愕の真実!!その時ナルトは!?
Madara tells a shocking truth! And then Naruto willl!?

 

That he planed Rin's deaths or something that's my guess.



#175 Kakashi-Sensei

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:55 PM

 

I'm assuming it is because they are both being saved for something else. Their absence is suspiciously coincidental if you think about it.

Maybe Kishi is trying to make a differance between friends and lovers  :lulz:


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#176 arian_rad

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 07:02 PM

As I've already told the last week, it's confirmed that Naruto will have lead color pages for chapter 652. And the WSJ preview is:
 
マダラが語る驚愕の真実!!その時ナルトは!?
Madara tells a shocking truth! And then Naruto willl!?


Called it!!!! Now let's hope this is something good and troublesome. I want the real villain in this war to show up. Let's hope it's not one of those previews that says something but nothing happens. Doesn't look like it will be one of those right now... Hopefully the review is actually giving a good hint of what's to come.

#177 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 07:02 PM

This might be a very good thing for Sakura, like you said it seems like KIshi don't know what to do with the rookies. Maybe..he know what to do with Sakura, maybe has a plan. Or maybe it's a coincidence, but if it doesn't happen I think it would be because he chose not to execute it after all.

 

Generally speaking, Kishi does not seem to operate on coincidence, when he does plan something he does so quite meticulously, while other things are kind of thrown together as an afterthought, like this, for instance. I think he's trying to stall and build suspense for some big event, and possibly, Sakura and Rin being put to the wayside in a chapter centering on friendship and friends coming together to accomplish a goal, is a hint to what that may be. Or it doesn't mean anything, depending on how things progress. 


Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 16 October 2013 - 07:04 PM.


#178 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 07:02 PM

 

That he planed Rin's deaths or something that's my guess.

I think he had this setup from the beginning. I always assume so. After Zetsu heard about Rin and Kakashi from Obito, I feel like the plan had been set and created a scene of where the Mist could get their hands on Rin and made the situation complicated with her being a jinchuuriki. It's like an offer from the devil. So let's say this preview is right, rather than trying to throw us off. I assumed that Madara is now taken easy that since he don't need to do anything but just casts the moon eye plan and before doing so, probably tell everyone and Obito the truth of everything. It's like Death Note where before the victory is determined, one character would reveal the whole truth behind it, causing a shocking moment. Again, this is the perfect time for Madara to do his final bidding, that is if Obito isn't down and out.

 

I really wonder how everything would go down though because Naruto still has to extract those bijuus. It's funny how one defeat leads more work to be done. Now that the preview is out, I really wonder if it's true and if so, this could get really interesting. And yes, this would mean everything ends in this volume.


Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 16 October 2013 - 07:03 PM.


#179 arian_rad

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 07:07 PM

I think he had this setup from the beginning. I always assume so. After Zetsu heard about Rin and Kakashi from Obito, I feel like the plan had been set and created a scene of where the Mist could get their hands on Rin and made the situation complicated with her being a jinchuuriki. It's like an offer from the devil. So let's say this preview is right, rather than trying to throw us off. I assumed that Madara is now taken easy that since he don't need to do anything but just casts the moon eye plan and before doing so, probably tell everyone and Obito the truth of everything. It's like Death Note where before the victory is determined, one character would reveal the whole truth behind it, causing a shocking moment. Again, this is the perfect time for Madara to do his final bidding, that is if Obito isn't down and out.
 
I really wonder how everything would go down though because Naruto still has to extract those bijuus. It's funny how one defeat leads more work to be done. Now that the preview is out, I really wonder if it's true and if so, this could get really interesting. And yes, this would mean everything ends in this volume.


All I know is, I expect it to wrap up this volume. From obito's words only a few minutes remain... Possibly 4-5 minutes. This next chapter should introduce madara as the very final villain and the next 4 should be focused on defeating him fully. Kishi has the space in those pages to create a really good ending to a very boring war.

#180 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

Called it!!!! Now let's hope this is something good and troublesome. I want the real villain in this war to show up. Let's hope it's not one of those previews that says something but nothing happens. Doesn't look like it will be one of those right now... Hopefully the review is actually giving a good hint of what's to come.

We can hope. If true, I would be happy that it will be settled all in one volume, not trying to make him to be in a different volume. If the preview is saying the truth, then something tells me that Obito will definitely pull off Star Wars episode 6 on Madara as in everyone is weak, but Naruto tried to fight off and pretty much killing Naruto until Obito truly understands and fight off Madara.

 

 

Generally speaking, Kishi does not seem to operate on coincidence, when he does plan something he does so quite meticulously, while other things are kind of thrown together as an afterthought, like this, for instance. I think he's trying to stall and build suspense for some big event, and possibly, Sakura and Rin being put to the wayside in a chapter centering on friendship and friends coming together to accomplish a goal, is a hint to what that may be, or it doesn't mean anything, depending on how things progress. 

That's why this arc works best with volume readings. Not saying it will become a fantastic arc all the sudden, but at least it will be more better than what your thought is currently thinking when dealing with patience. To each of their own in this effect.






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