357 replies to this topic

[redragon88]

There are two things that don't make sense in the flashback:

1) The face of the Hokage mountain. I think it was implied before that Minato became Hokage after the 3rd ninja war was over.

I'm gonna guess that Kishimoto is so used to drawing the face of Minato in the mountain that he simply did it automatically. He's probably kicking himself for making such a big screw up. I bet in a future issue he'll make some apology of how he accidentally drew that.

2) Kakashi's age when he took the chunin exams. It's known that Kakashi became genin at age 5 and then chunin at age 6. Meanwhile Obito and Rin both became genin at age 9 and then chunin at age 11.

This mean that Kakashi should've already been a chunin away before both Obito and Rin even graduated from the academy. Granted those ages come from the databooks so it's a very high possibility the Kishi will decide to somehow inform the fans that the information on Kakashi's age in the databook is actually inaccurate.

The age issue has me intrigued. Maybe Kishi decide to let someone else establish those ages, or maybe Kishi didn't give it much thought when he put them in the databook. The databook ages even go against the fact that they are all in the same team. If Kakashi became a ninja way before Obito and Rin that would mean he actually had a different genin team at the beginning but that never got any reference. Which would mean Obito and Rin are the only teammates he's ever had.

I guess Kishi will probably retcon Kakashi to become a genin at age 9 (the same as Obito and Rin, therefore placing them all on the same team since the beginning) and then make it so Kakashi became chunin at age 10 while Obito and Rin achieved it a year later at 11.

For the flashback to work out Kishi was to address that he screwed up by drawing the 4th in the mountain and that Kakashi's age in the databook is actually wrong.

[neoshadow]

I guess Kishi will probably retcon Kakashi to become a genin at age 9 (the same as Obito and Rin, therefore placing them all on the same team since the beginning) and then make it so Kakashi became chunin at age 10 while Obito and Rin achieved it a year later at 11.

For the flashback to work out Kishi was to address that he screwed up by drawing the 4th in the mountain and that Kakashi's age in the databook is actually wrong.

Most likely Kishi will decide the databook's info is false, I always found it bizarre that Kakashi graduated so young, younger than both Itachi and Minato, all three have been described as prodigies but 5 years old feels a little too young given the competition.

[Nefertieh]

Well, Kishimoto has made continuity mistakes in the past before. Like in the Pein Invasion arc, where Obito had a sharingan with three tomoe in Kakashi's flashback.

[redragon88]

They do look similar, especially if you look at how Kishimoto draws Sakura's eyes, with a double fold and all. But I had always thought it was strange how Rin was adamant to confess her love to Kakashi when Obito had just died. >_>

It felt a little weird that just as Obito dies and she finds out that he loved her with all his heart the first thing she wants to do is confess to Kakashi. But, I guess she probably wanted to say it to let Kakashi know she didn't want him to die (given that Kakashi said he would protect her even if he died) because that would make her sad.

I really want to know what happened to Kakashi and Rin after Obito died. I'm gonna guess the Obito dying somehow affected Rin which by consequence caused her to die. Maybe she got depressed and didn't pay attention to her surroundings which the enemy took to their advantage.

I also want to know if the fact that Rin now knew Obito loved her somehow affected how she felt for him. Maybe it even had an impact on her relationship with Kakashi. Maybe she started loving Obito afterwards but feels more devastated by the day that he isn't with them anymore. Or maybe she still wanted to be in a relationship with Kakashi but the thought of Obito brought her guilt.

Although that may be a little to dramatic. But then again, I wasn't expecting Obito's flashback to be so centered on how he loved Rin to the point he wanted to improve himself to that she would like him more. So more romance drama might not be too far off.

Edited by redragon88, 30 August 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[alexander]

[/b]
It felt a little weird that just as Obito dies and she finds out that he loved her with all his heart the first thing she wants to do is confess to Kakashi. But, I guess she probably wanted to say it to let Kakashi know she didn't want him to die (given that Kakashi said he would protect her even if he died) because that would make her sad.

I really want to know what happened to Kakashi and Rin after Obito died. I'm gonna guess the Obito dying somehow affected Rin which by consequence caused her to die. Maybe she got depressed and didn't pay attention to her surroundings which the enemy took to their advantage.

I also want to know if the fact that Rin now knew Obito loved her somehow affected how she felt for him. Maybe it even had an impact on her relationship with Kakashi. Maybe she started loving Obito afterwards but feels more devastated by the day that he isn't with them anymore. Or maybe she still wanted to be in a relationship with Kakashi but the thought of Obito brought her guilt.

Although that may be a little to dramatic. But then again, I wasn't expecting Obito's flashback to be so centered on how he loved Rin to the point he wanted to improve himself to that she would like him more. So more romance drama might not be too far off.

I think it's more likely that Kakashi became distant of Rin over time because he was too stuck up on his memory of Obito, so he would probaly feel guilty if he got close to her.

[tricksie]

I'm still puzzled. How does a love triangle parlay into world domination? If he was jealous and had that much power, why would he leave Konoha and go manipulate the Mizukage? Why would he give Nagato the rinnegan? Why would he found Akatsuki? Why does he want all the bijuus? To get back at Kakashi? Because he's still pissed at Rin 20+ years later?

The love triangle is interesting and part of Obito's story, but I'm curious to see how much of truly is a part of Tobi's story. Again, Tobi is a master of manipulation - above all else. I'm more likely to believe that Tobi has gleaned Obito's memories from his body and is using them to take apart Kakashi, before I believe that Obito orchestrated all this because he didn't catch the eye of a girl when he was 11.

It would be like Naruto deciding to destroy the world because Sakura said she had a crush on Sasuke. Not after the Sasuke turned bad, not after the PoaL, not he risked his own life to save Sasuke. I mean like because she said it during the Zabuza/Haku arc.

My point is, there wasn't great strife on Obito's team. It was just petty jealousy. And Obito has been shown to be very much like Naruto, smiling thorugh his pain. So his plans for world domination only make sense if he was completely warped.

[Codus N]

ok... --Click here to view--

So the big question is, WHY????

That's exactly the first word that will come out of Kakashi's & Guy's mouth.

My reaction to the end of this chapter:

thoughts --Click here to view--

Excuse me....

I knew it, I freaking knew it! Something in my gut aways told me, it just feels great to know once in my life that a theory that I support happens to be true!!

Now about the chapter, it feels, so sad. Half of it focused on Obito love for Rin, and man, my heart broke when I saw him with the flowers ready to confess to Rin, only for her to deliver an party plan for Kakashi, one sided love is such an sad thing It's kind of amazing how Obito and Rin interactions mirror Naruto and Sakura so much, I mean, look at the facial exp​ressions, it's so similar.

You and me both, buddy. I'm glad that I stayed on the bandwagon till the end no matter how many people deemed it ridiculous.

Wow, NF crashed. But now...

Spoiler --Click here to view--

I woke up and the first thing I did was to read. And man, do I ever feel so surprised. Okay, I have always thought it was Obito because of many reasons. It died down when he claims to be Madara. Then hints were dropping and bam, it happens. I love this chapter. No reading but picture is worth a thousand words. For each passing pages, I keep saying, "Why?" Why, why, why? Why Obito? Why did he becomes an evil threat to the world? Why he caused mayhem? Why trying to revive the beast? WHY!

A lot of answers will come. Overall, this chapter is unique compared to others. It really makes me feel suspenseful. It's like hearing a happy song turning into despair turning into vengeance. Next chapter will be story heavy

I'm not sure about you, but this is really making NaruSaku a seal deal. Why? Obito is officially a parallel to Naruto. He has failed in the end. He trying to do everything that go against Naruto wishes. Naruto, prove him wrong. Prove the world that there's always hope. Color me hyped.

I agree on the whole song analogy it really builds up perfectly to Kakashi & Guy's reactions & expressions.

edit: also, I really enjoyed the story told sans words. It may not look it, but that is actually harder to do than writing a script. Takes a lot more planning and work. But the effect is a nice build up as well. The visual story is uncluttered. You have silence until the very end, when you are forcibly brought back to the present when sound returns. So, nicely done.

edit edit: @Nate, yeah I feel the same. I'm not crazy about derailing the story away from Naruto for yet another character arc. Even if it is one we've been looking forward to. I have to wonder if it will contribute to the overall story, or wind up like Kabuto's arc and be fairly self-contained. They resolve the big issue, then die.

Lastly, I hope Tobi stays bad. I really don't way to feel sympathy for him. Somebody's got to be a villain here!

Yeah, it reminds me of the stunt Eiji pulled in Bakuman. If I'm correct, Kubo has done this once a few times as well. Another mangaka that I know who has used this technique would be Slam Dunk's mangaka, Inoue.

While I don't mind getting away from the main storyline this time, I am wary, considering the Sasuke crap Kishi's been feeding us. I hope to god he doesn't repeat the same mistake .

Ultimate this.

Obito is the definition of lost hope. He found out that the only peace is to escape reality. Judging from the flashback, I can't blame him. The whole character of him is a tragic work.

Now I am convinced. Naruto MUST surpass the old generation. I am solid on NaruSaku now. Kishi really plays romance into a serious factor now if Obito's one of the reason is Rin. It amazes me to see how much his life with her plays a lot in the flashback. I know Naruto might hear them talking and if Rin comes to the subject, I bet Naruto might think Sakura at one point. Naruto will be the first to accomplish this. Moving on to Hinata is a scapegoat and has no impact whatsoever. Sakura has a huge impact because she is a "impossible" task to deal. She loves Sasuke while Naruto loves her. It's one-sided love (to his view), so having together will be hard, especially if the girl's love seems "strong." Obito didn't give up, but he was in pain. The sad truth is that he never got to tell Rin. Jiraiya gets rejected everytime, but there was a chance, which unfortunately dies before he knows it. Naruto is holding his feelings to the end, but it is scary for him that the chance of him dying is there and could end up the same as them. Their glory romance moments were never seen. Naruto is the only one left.

Yeah, I can't wait for next week. I am so hyped.

Bolded: Yeah, it will most definitely be interesting. Another interesting thing is, it looks like Kakashi's classmates are pretty close with each other like the K-11. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing fillers of little Kakashi and his friends at one point. It should be interesting it might even serve as a nice build up to Tobi's identity like Kishi did in this chapter.

I think we may very well see some development on Kakashi's classmates after this. They'll be shocked for sure. But none more than Kakashi. Obito being the world's enemy may very well make them put themselves in Naruto's position. I think they might all agree to stand together and fight him along with Kakashi once he gets out of his funk. This may serve as a nice parallel to the K-11 too.

Also, on the NS reference, Naruto might ask the Jonins about Kakashi's story with Obito. Which will lead to them revealing that the reason why Kakashi chose Team 7 to be under his command is because they remind him so much of his old team. Kakashi also apparently supports NS along with the Jonins because they don't want a repeat of Obito.

Despite the chapter only being released today, someone was able to make a short animation of Obito's face being shown:

Very nice.

As soon as I saw the name of the chapter I flipped. Gah, Obito!? It seemed so obvious, but he was such a good kid. :c Why, Kishi, WHY!?

Funny, when you think about the the popular "Tobi is a good boy!!" meme. It might have been Kishi's earliest hint.

Seeing the jounin generation as kids was a nice treat - Asuma looks really cute, especially with Kurenai by his side - Hayate looks exactly like Suigetsu there though

That's Genma. Genma always has that toothpick/senbon. Oh, and speaking of Asuma, I wished Kishi kept him in the story longer. It would've been very interesting. Especially when it comes to Asuma's mother. If Obito did indeed kill her, I wonder how Asuma would've taken it?? and also, I think if there's one redeeming moment for Obito during his charade, it would likely be Asuma's death and the knowledge that Asuma had married Kurenai and had a baby on the way. I think that for a moment, he went back to being "Obito" when Asuma died and he got the info that Kurenai was pregnant.

He may have felt shame & regret because he made Asuma & Kurenai go through the same thing he did. It also resonates with him a lot because Asuma was a close friend of his too. I also think a particular reason he was disgusted with ET was Asuma's resurrection. He may have thought something along the lines of "I'm sorry, Asuma. Please forgive me. But this is for my ambition."

Okay, but if that were true, then how come the other Zetsu-clones do not do the same thing? That whole regenerating thing and such. I don't recall any moment of the clones doing any such a thing. Tobi seems to be able to take a beating and regenerate, the others seem a little more fragile with one being taken out with only one Sakura punch.

Forgive me, but I am not seeing the connection.

Actually, it's not regenerative abilities per se. It's actually him attaching and reattaching Zetsu limbs.

Unlike some people, I was never against the idea of Tobi being Obito, but when I first heard it I thought it didn't make sense. Why I didn't think it made sense was because of the reasons that we listed on this thread, and it was mainly timeline thing. But like I said, I was never against the idea.

Having skimed/skipped a lot of the war arc, I still have to say that this probably one of the best chapters in the entire series....no joke. I say that because I'm mostly a fan of the anime, as the action scenes in the manga are hard to follow at times and I believe the anime improves on certain events in the manga (i.e. the Team 7 reunion, Naruto meeting Kushina, etc...). That's, of course, just my preference, and I haven't read all the chapters of the manga, so there maybe more gold among those chapters. But this chapter completely benefited from being on page, because I don't think the silent treatment will work in the anime version. I believe they will ad voices and music to the anime, which will get rid of the main emotional appeal of the chapter. While I do admit knowing some dialogue will be helpful, especially in learning of what the hell Rin whispered to Obito, but it wouldn't be as emotionally appealing as it was in the manga.

I just want to say this now, I never really cared for Obito beforehand. I just saw him as a Naruto clone, and while his death scene was sad (an other moment that I thought the anime improved), I didn't really care that much because I knew he was going to die in the end. Admittedly my two favorite parts of the Kakashi Gaiden episodes/chapters was Obito's death scene, and when he called Kakashi trash for abandoning Rin. So you could say he was my favorite part of those Gaiden episodes, but then again I really didn't care for those episodes/chapters that much. Besides the main focus of those episodes was to explore more Kakashi's back story, it didn't really develop Obito too much nor did it give Rin much of a personality or any development. In fact, cause we knew so little about those two characters, that when Obito was dying and saying that he wished he could've told Rin that he loved her I was like "Wait.....I thought you were just friends..." Of course it makes sense, as he was the one who wanted to save her, and it kind of echoed of what I thought of Naruto's promise of the lifetime; I was surprise by it, but I still thought it made sense. I think it's that parallel to Naruto that makes him more appealing to others, but to me I never really cared about that.

However, in this fifteen page chapter, not only did I started liking his character (a lot in fact), but now I want to see him redeemed. Having the story start off in flashback, with Obito, was genius in my opinion in how to reveal Tibo's identity. When I found out that the previous chapter ended with Tobi's mask shatter, but didn't reveal his identity, I thought one of two possibilities will happen. 1) That they were going to pad things out, until they reveal his identity at the end, which would have made it a filler chapter, and ultimately a wasted chapter, or 2) They reveal in the first page, and then they will show us his "tragic" back story, which will just come off as "Look, and feel sorry for me." However the chapter did something even better. Not only did it still reveal Tobi's identity in the first page, it also hold off the actual 'unmasking' until the very end. Also, instead of seeing a bad guy recalling his past to reveal how he become bad, it showed the character's back story before the reveal, and they made us like him (for some, it made them like him again, or reminded them why they like him).

Also, starting the chapter in flashback, and showing Obito's story before his big reveal at the last page, was a smart move for numerous reasons. 1) Since it has been like five or six years since those Gaiden chapters came out, this was a great reminder of who Obito was, and it developed him more properly. 2) The uncanny resemblance between him and Naruto already establishes an emotional connection between the audience and him. 3) It made him a very likable character, and very sympathetic, that by the end, even though you already know how it's going to end, it still makes you feel a little upset of how he turned out. 4) Now that the character has been sympathetic through the viewer's eyes, we now want to see the character not only stopped, but redeemed. In only fifteen pages, Obito is already a lot more sympathetic villain(or anti-hero) than Sasuke is, because, well, he was good person before he became a bad guy. Not emo duece who had his moments.

Obito's story in this chapter was surprisingly very sad, and emotional. While in comparison with other character's back story, his is probably not as tragic (well, not at least until got smashed by a giant rock, and 'died'). Sure he was a loser, and he couldn't get the girl he always liked, but compared to some more tragic back stories (like Sasuke's and Nagato's) his is not that bad. What made it work was 1) there was no dialogue, so everything conveyed in action which was done well, 2) Obito and Rin's friendship was really well established, and it was very reminiscing of Naruto and Sakura's friendship (I swear in the panels where they are smiling at each other near the bench (benches like those keep coming up) that Kishi used an original drawing of Naruto and Sakura, and just inked it differently), and 3) you grew to like Obito because of the connections he has with Naruto, and, just like Naruto, we genuinely wanted to see him succeed. You wanted to see him to get with Rin, because you could tell that was the goal he was aiming for, to win her over. Like I said, their friendship was well establish, but to see Rin liking an other guy while Obito just watches is truly heart breaking. At least Rin's crush on Kakashi was as annoyingly distracting as Sakura's crush on Sasuke.

While I didn't really mind some of the continuity problems, my only real problem is that the Team 7 parallel feels to much on the nose. It was pretty obvious beforehand, but when you start swearing that the characters not only look like them (excluding Kakashi), they also act like them (talking about Naruto and Sakura here), that's when you stop having any resemblance of subtlety. But I don't care, this is probably one of the most emotional flashback chapters in the entire series.

QFT. But on the bolded, you mean Rin's crush wasn't as annoying as Sakura's, right??

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I'm still puzzled. How does a love triangle parlay into world domination? If he was jealous and had that much power, why would he leave Konoha and go manipulate the Mizukage? Why would he give Nagato the rinnegan? Why would he found Akatsuki? Why does he want all the bijuus? To get back at Kakashi? Because he's still pissed at Rin 20+ years later?

The love triangle is interesting and part of Obito's story, but I'm curious to see how much of truly is a part of Tobi's story. Again, Tobi is a master of manipulation - above all else. I'm more likely to believe that Tobi has gleaned Obito's memories from his body and is using them to take apart Kakashi, before I believe that Obito orchestrated all this because he didn't catch the eye of a girl when he was 11.

It would be like Naruto deciding to destroy the world because Sakura said she had a crush on Sasuke. Not after the Sasuke turned bad, not after the PoaL, not he risked his own life to save Sasuke. I mean like because she said it during the Zabuza/Haku arc.

My point is, there wasn't great strife on Obito's team. It was just petty jealousy. And Obito has been shown to be very much like Naruto, smiling thorugh his pain. So his plans for world domination only make sense if he was completely warped.

Why not?
The war itself was bad, with rin's death made him suffer more, and it was the only(girl) that he really loved, didnt show that he wanted to become more strong..
wanted to surpass kakashi to impress rin and win her heart? is not the same thing that naruto did on part 1?
her death really messed him up, now he wants to put every human being on a genjutsu and htis genjutsu will create the perfect world much like road to ninja, each person will be struck on their own worlds and plus they will be happy, but it's wrong because no matter what he do it will be still a genjutsu a lie and they will be struck forever.

[Orenji]

Yay!!

I know some people who are annoyed, saying that it was way too obvious..

Uh.. duh.

It makes the reveal so much more exciting! Like with Minato being Naruto's father. Sometimes its obvious for a reason!

Edited by Orenji, 30 August 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[tricksie]

That's Genma. Genma always has that toothpick/senbon. Oh, and speaking of Asuma, I wished Kishi kept him in the story longer. It would've been very interesting.

Yeah, I wonder if that is something he would go back and change if he could. Asuma was such a great dynamic character. I think writing a manga would be a balance between 'how can I keep the storyline going' and 'how can I wrap up if I don't get my contract renewed in three years?' And it may be that Asuma fell victim to that. Kishimoto thinking that maybe the story wouldn't be going on this long. Because even though the death and everything naturally fits in with the story, Kishimoto is still so hesitant to kill of main characters. I've often wondered if Asuma's death might be something he would have changed if he'd known how long the manga was going to go on for.

The war itself was bad, with rin's death made him suffer more, and it was the only(girl) that he really loved, didnt show that he wanted to become more strong..
wanted to surpass kakashi to impress rin and win her heart? is not the same thing that naruto did on part 1?
her death really messed him up, now he wants to put every human being on a genjutsu and htis genjutsu will create the perfect world much like road to ninja, each person will be struck on their own worlds and plus they will be happy, but it's wrong because no matter what he do it will be still a genjutsu a lie and they will be struck forever.

It's not the same thing as Naruto in part 1. Naruto wouldn't have set out to reunite the bijuus if he couldn't have Sakura. And he wouldn't have taken over countries, formed an assasination group and waged war on the world to prove he was stronger the Sasuke. Starting at the age he was in Part 1.

And the Obito we have been shown in the flashbacks does not seem a likely candidate to do so either, because of his obvious parallels to Naruto.

Like I said, the love triangle is a sad part of Obito's story, but I think that it is a footnote in Tobi's story.

I'd find it more plausible that it was Madara's brother who channeled the jealousy for stealing his power into another body.

Looking forward to seeing how Rin fits into the equation.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Unlike some people, I was never against the idea of Tobi being Obito, but when I first heard it I thought it didn't make sense. Why I didn't think it made sense was because of the reasons that we listed on this thread, and it was mainly timeline thing. But like I said, I was never against the idea.

Having skimed/skipped a lot of the war arc, I still have to say that this probably one of the best chapters in the entire series....no joke. I say that because I'm mostly a fan of the anime, as the action scenes in the manga are hard to follow at times and I believe the anime improves on certain events in the manga (i.e. the Team 7 reunion, Naruto meeting Kushina, etc...). That's, of course, just my preference, and I haven't read all the chapters of the manga, so there maybe more gold among those chapters. But this chapter completely benefited from being on page, because I don't think the silent treatment will work in the anime version. I believe they will ad voices and music to the anime, which will get rid of the main emotional appeal of the chapter. While I do admit knowing some dialogue will be helpful, especially in learning of what the hell Rin whispered to Obito, but it wouldn't be as emotionally appealing as it was in the manga.

I just want to say this now, I never really cared for Obito beforehand. I just saw him as a Naruto clone, and while his death scene was sad (an other moment that I thought the anime improved), I didn't really care that much because I knew he was going to die in the end. Admittedly my two favorite parts of the Kakashi Gaiden episodes/chapters was Obito's death scene, and when he called Kakashi trash for abandoning Rin. So you could say he was my favorite part of those Gaiden episodes, but then again I really didn't care for those episodes/chapters that much. Besides the main focus of those episodes was to explore more Kakashi's back story, it didn't really develop Obito too much nor did it give Rin much of a personality or any development. In fact, cause we knew so little about those two characters, that when Obito was dying and saying that he wished he could've told Rin that he loved her I was like "Wait.....I thought you were just friends..." Of course it makes sense, as he was the one who wanted to save her, and it kind of echoed of what I thought of Naruto's promise of the lifetime; I was surprise by it, but I still thought it made sense. I think it's that parallel to Naruto that makes him more appealing to others, but to me I never really cared about that.

However, in this fifteen page chapter, not only did I started liking his character (a lot in fact), but now I want to see him redeemed. Having the story start off in flashback, with Obito, was genius in my opinion in how to reveal Tibo's identity. When I found out that the previous chapter ended with Tobi's mask shatter, but didn't reveal his identity, I thought one of two possibilities will happen. 1) That they were going to pad things out, until they reveal his identity at the end, which would have made it a filler chapter, and ultimately a wasted chapter, or 2) They reveal in the first page, and then they will show us his "tragic" back story, which will just come off as "Look, and feel sorry for me." However the chapter did something even better. Not only did it still reveal Tobi's identity in the first page, it also hold off the actual 'unmasking' until the very end. Also, instead of seeing a bad guy recalling his past to reveal how he become bad, it showed the character's back story before the reveal, and they made us like him (for some, it made them like him again, or reminded them why they like him).

Also, starting the chapter in flashback, and showing Obito's story before his big reveal at the last page, was a smart move for numerous reasons. 1) Since it has been like five or six years since those Gaiden chapters came out, this was a great reminder of who Obito was, and it developed him more properly. 2) The uncanny resemblance between him and Naruto already establishes an emotional connection between the audience and him. 3) It made him a very likable character, and very sympathetic, that by the end, even though you already know how it's going to end, it still makes you feel a little upset of how he turned out. 4) Now that the character has been sympathetic through the viewer's eyes, we now want to see the character not only stopped, but redeemed. In only fifteen pages, Obito is already a lot more sympathetic villain(or anti-hero) than Sasuke is, because, well, he was good person before he became a bad guy. Not emo duece who had his moments.

Obito's story in this chapter was surprisingly very sad, and emotional. While in comparison with other character's back story, his is probably not as tragic (well, not at least until got smashed by a giant rock, and 'died'). Sure he was a loser, and he couldn't get the girl he always liked, but compared to some more tragic back stories (like Sasuke's and Nagato's) his is not that bad. What made it work was 1) there was no dialogue, so everything conveyed in action which was done well, 2) Obito and Rin's friendship was really well established, and it was very reminiscing of Naruto and Sakura's friendship (I swear in the panels where they are smiling at each other near the bench (benches like those keep coming up) that Kishi used an original drawing of Naruto and Sakura, and just inked it differently), and 3) you grew to like Obito because of the connections he has with Naruto, and, just like Naruto, we genuinely wanted to see him succeed. You wanted to see him to get with Rin, because you could tell that was the goal he was aiming for, to win her over. Like I said, their friendship was well establish, but to see Rin liking an other guy while Obito just watches is truly heart breaking. At least Rin's crush on Kakashi was as annoyingly distracting as Sakura's crush on Sasuke.

While I didn't really mind some of the continuity problems, my only real problem is that the Team 7 parallel feels to much on the nose. It was pretty obvious beforehand, but when you start swearing that the characters not only look like them (excluding Kakashi), they also act like them (talking about Naruto and Sakura here), that's when you stop having any resemblance of subtlety. But I don't care, this is probably one of the most emotional flashback chapters in the entire series.

Honestly... I don't want Tobi to be redeemed. This villain has been a great, straight-up villain for the series. I don't want that to be wrecked by some more "redemption" that Kishi keeps pushing on everyone and everything. I think it might actually wreck Tobi's entire character if he's somehow redeemed.

[Hak]

Obito being partially Zetsu and also the mention of him having first Hokages cells go hand in hand. After the Kage summit it was revealed that at least white Zetsu was constructed of firsts genes.

Edit. Could there be a greater entity that drives the Uchiha to be maniac and power hungry? could it be that that same entity has consumed Madara, Obito and Sasuke also?

Edited by Hak, 30 August 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Darth Krypt]

Honestly... I don't want Tobi to be redeemed. This villain has been a great, straight-up villain for the series. I don't want that to be wrecked by some more "redemption" that Kishi keeps pushing on everyone and everything. I think it might actually wreck Tobi's entire character if he's somehow redeemed.

Naruto is there. How can he not be redeemed? Personally I don't care whether he is redeemed or not. I won't be having anymore expectations out of this manga. I'll just read it along.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah, I wonder if that is something he would go back and change if he could. Asuma was such a great dynamic character. I think writing a manga would be a balance between 'how can I keep the storyline going' and 'how can I wrap up if I don't get my contract renewed in three years?' And it may be that Asuma fell victim to that. Kishimoto thinking that maybe the story wouldn't be going on this long. Because even though the death and everything naturally fits in with the story, Kishimoto is still so hesitant to kill of main characters. I've often wondered if Asuma's death might be something he would have changed if he'd known how long the manga was going to go on for.


It's not the same thing as Naruto in part 1. Naruto wouldn't have set out to reunite the bijuus if he couldn't have Sakura. And he wouldn't have taken over countries, formed an assasination group and waged war on the world to prove he was stronger the Sasuke. Starting at the age he was in Part 1.

And the Obito we have been shown in the flashbacks does not seem a likely candidate to do so either, because of his obvious parallels to Naruto.

Like I said, the love triangle is a sad part of Obito's story, but I think that it is a footnote in Tobi's story.

I'd find it more plausible that it was Madara's brother who channeled the jealousy for stealing his power into another body.

Looking forward to seeing how Rin fits into the equation.

here i disagree with ur his pre-war was much like naruto pre-sasuke departure, waging war reuniting bijju was after his "death" and most likely rin's too.
learn to make a difference.

[alexander]

It's not the same thing as Naruto in part 1. Naruto wouldn't have set out to reunite the bijuus if he couldn't have Sakura. And he wouldn't have taken over countries, formed an assasination group and waged war on the world to prove he was stronger the Sasuke. Starting at the age he was in Part 1.

And the Obito we have been shown in the flashbacks does not seem a likely candidate to do so either, because of his obvious parallels to Naruto.

Like I said, the love triangle is a sad part of Obito's story, but I think that it is a footnote in Tobi's story.

I'd find it more plausible that it was Madara's brother who channeled the jealousy for stealing his power into another body.

Looking forward to seeing how Rin fits into the equation.

I think he meant impress Rin during his childhood, before he "died", you know? I don't think the love triangle would cause Obito to turn bad, but if he saw her dying, or something like that, it surely would have an big impact on Obito. He would resent Kakashi not because Rin liked him more, but because he failed to keep her safe.

[Deej]

Yeah, I wonder if that is something he would go back and change if he could. Asuma was such a great dynamic character. I think writing a manga would be a balance between 'how can I keep the storyline going' and 'how can I wrap up if I don't get my contract renewed in three years?' And it may be that Asuma fell victim to that. Kishimoto thinking that maybe the story wouldn't be going on this long. Because even though the death and everything naturally fits in with the story, Kishimoto is still so hesitant to kill of main characters. I've often wondered if Asuma's death might be something he would have changed if he'd known how long the manga was going to go on for.

I don't think so. Asuma's death was for Shikamaru's character development and growth, which Kishimoto made the focus of that arc. Asuma had to die in order for that story to be told. Otherwise it never would of had the impact it did. I think Kishi's only regret is he probably wanted to spend more time on that story, but was forced to move along due to time.

Asuma's death served a purpose and developed a more important character. As long as a death serves a purpose, I have no problem with it. Naruto has so many characters running around, I'd rather they serve some purpose than just exist. And Asuma did.

It might of been interesting to see what relationship Obito and Asuma had and if "Tobi" feels any guilt about Asuma's death and where he left Kurenai. But not interesting enough to change anything in the story. Asuma's death made him matter more. And he still influences Shikamaru and Team 10 as we saw during the war.

Edited by Deej, 30 August 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Actually, it's not regenerative abilities per se. It's actually him attaching and reattaching Zetsu limbs.

Are we sure it is Zetsu parts though? We are never shown how he gains back limbs, only that that he gains them back when he gets back to base. What color is Tobi's skin? If it is tan, then I am not sure if it is a "Zetsu clone hand/arm."

These theories are...weird. If he can "grow" body parts to fuse back into himself, then why couldn't he fix the scars on the face? Unless they just cut off Obito's head and placed it on a Zetsu cloned body, but that seems weirder and in any case, who "rebuilt" Obito in the first place? I think there is a hidden third party somewhere and I have a funny feeling Madara is behind it somehow since Madara seems to know of Tobi.

I really hope Kishi answers all these questions.

I will say I do like the idea of Obito being the villain. I wasn't at first, but I have warmed up to it. The fact that he has this amazing ability that rivals Minato's is kind of cool. If Naruto learns his father's technique then he will most likely be able to beat Tobi easily. I just hope not too easily. I have a strong feeling this really isn't Obito, only a shell with the memories of Obito. It would explain things a lot easier than just some other random things occurring where all of a sudden Obito had a change of heart.

Also, why do I have a funny feeling Tob is going to take out ET Madara?

Obito being partially Zetsu and also the mention of him having first Hokages cells go hand in hand. After the Kage summit it was revealed that at least white Zetsu was constructed of firsts genes.

Umm where exactly? I don't remember that. I remember the white Zetsu clones being spawned using the First's DNA, but not the original. BTW, I can't see the manga on mangareader and everyone seems to link to that one the most. So if it would so please you, can you just take the panel and post it...or even PM me with it.

I don't think we ever got a background for Zetsu did we?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 30 August 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Gravenimage]

I'm still puzzled. How does a love triangle parlay into world domination? If he was jealous and had that much power, why would he leave Konoha and go manipulate the Mizukage? Why would he give Nagato the rinnegan? Why would he found Akatsuki? Why does he want all the bijuus? To get back at Kakashi? Because he's still pissed at Rin 20+ years later?

The love triangle is interesting and part of Obito's story, but I'm curious to see how much of truly is a part of Tobi's story. Again, Tobi is a master of manipulation - above all else. I'm more likely to believe that Tobi has gleaned Obito's memories from his body and is using them to take apart Kakashi, before I believe that Obito orchestrated all this because he didn't catch the eye of a girl when he was 11.

It would be like Naruto deciding to destroy the world because Sakura said she had a crush on Sasuke. Not after the Sasuke turned bad, not after the PoaL, not he risked his own life to save Sasuke. I mean like because she said it during the Zabuza/Haku arc.

My point is, there wasn't great strife on Obito's team. It was just petty jealousy. And Obito has been shown to be very much like Naruto, smiling thorugh his pain. So his plans for world domination only make sense if he was completely warped.

I can tell you one thing for sure the Tobi's flashback will be like 3 to 4 chapters.

[Transformers03]

QFT. But on the bolded, you mean Rin's crush wasn't as annoying as Sakura's, right??

Oops, yeah that's what I meant.