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If Sakura still loves Sasuke why is she not worthy of respect?


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#161 Fenris

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:42 AM

Can someone summarize what we're talking about? XD I just stumbled into the thread and it went from tlaking about tsunderes from a few pages back, to the Sasuke panel with the fodder nin.
I'll give my 2 cents on that.
She looked broken when she thought of it.
"Great guy." that's the KEY focus to this panel. It couldn't be more obvious.
Great. guy.
Is Sasuke a great guy? No.
Is Naruto a great guy? Yes.
Thus Sakura felt guilty for still having feelings for him. This does NOT conclude that she does not in any way love Naruto, or have romantic interests/intentions with Naruto. Kishi once stated that Sakura is a very realistic girl, thus, realistic girls of course: can have feelings for more than one person at once.

Plus, it helsp a bit to know that Sakura is seen multiple times in the splashpages and covers with a war axe, or battleaxe, if you will. And, Naruto is seen on a cover holding it and it says "Sakura" written on it. This is just another one of Kishi's many hints. wink.gif
 
 
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#162 Toasty Warrior

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:52 AM

I still don't get why Sakura gets all the hate from people. If I remember right Sakura is the character in Naruto that most people can relate since she had the most normal life, it's suppose to make her look human, and yet just because she hit Naruto a few times in the manga, and fan girling over Sasuke in her earlier years? Gee if I remember right, people in real life can do that too if they wanted too, but then again I blame the anime for blowing Sakura's character out of proportion at times, and making her still look like the fan girl at times, that's where most of the hate came from. Poor Sakura she can never catch a break. sad.gif

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#163 Fenris

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:02 AM

QUOTE (Toasty Warrior @ Mar 26 2012, 05:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still don't get why Sakura gets all the hate from people. If I remember right Sakura is the character in Naruto that most people can relate since she had the most normal life, it's suppose to make her look human, and yet just because she hit Naruto a few times in the manga, and fan girling over Sasuke in her earlier years? Gee if I remember right, people in real life can do that too if they wanted too, but then again I blame the anime for blowing Sakura's character out of proportion at times, and making her still look like the fan girl at times, that's where most of the hate came from. Poor Sakura she can never catch a break. sad.gif

I agree. It's the anime that throws things out of hand, movies too. Even making Shion look like Hinata, I mean really. Come on. facepalm.png It's nasty what they do. I remember I've seen a art book, where Kishi drew most of the movie posters - but I never seen him draw one for that. Just goes to show you, whatever he's involved in anime wise, there's always more NS in it. I got a good feeling about this movie coming up.
 
 
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#164 merryGOflava

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:15 AM

QUOTE (Fenris @ Mar 26 2012, 06:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree. It's the anime that throws things out of hand, movies too. Even making Shion look like Hinata, I mean really. Come on. facepalm.png It's nasty what they do. I remember I've seen a art book, where Kishi drew most of the movie posters - but I never seen him draw one for that. Just goes to show you, whatever he's involved in anime wise, there's always more NS in it. I got a good feeling about this movie coming up.


actually i think he drew something for all the movies....

i will have to check my artbook again....but i think shes in there along with the others.

i dont think shion looks like hinata? she seems like the typical princess to me.

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#165 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:48 AM

QUOTE (Toasty Warrior @ Mar 25 2012, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still don't get why Sakura gets all the hate from people. If I remember right Sakura is the character in Naruto that most people can relate since she had the most normal life, it's suppose to make her look human, and yet just because she hit Naruto a few times in the manga, and fan girling over Sasuke in her earlier years? Gee if I remember right, people in real life can do that too if they wanted too, but then again I blame the anime for blowing Sakura's character out of proportion at times, and making her still look like the fan girl at times, that's where most of the hate came from. Poor Sakura she can never catch a break. sad.gif

My lost of respect for her character doesn't really mean I hate her character at all. My feeling for her character is that I love her like a little sister. It's like one big dysfunctional family that we're in a disagreement. Surely, the big brother of me disproves of her being paired up with Sasuke, and not Naruto. We say say foul things too each other like FU... I hate your F-ing guts. I did flame Sakura's character in the past like this, but came to terms that I never actually hated her character. It's just frustration that clouds my mind.

The Iron Summit and Team and Team & Reunion arc really made me lose respect for her character because she couldn't decide which boy she wants to spend the rest of her life with. Sakura told him that he doesn't know what she's thinking, which he was right. Sakura still harbors romantic feelings, and when comes judgment day (after the war). If her heart leads her to Sasuke once again. How will she explain this to Naruto? The truth is that she can't.

This is one of the reason why people hates her character because she had never apologize to Naruto for using his feelings. It didn't take Sai to tell her Naruto is in love with her. She knew for a very long, and never had the courage to tell him that her heart belongs to Sasuke only, and on the other hand, if she had really done this. I will still have the respect that I lost for her because we cannot control the people we fall in love. It would be that much easier for Naruto to accept that Sakura is Sasuke's property... not his. But no.

It's going to be tragic all because of that stupid confession. Naruto thinks he has a shot to be Sakura's groom. And Sakura still has Sasuke as her gold medal. But you all shouldn't hate Sakura. The person to hate is the author himself for making Sakura's character a Tsunadere and a witch to Naruto in Part 1.

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#166 Don-kun

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:06 PM

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 25 2012, 01:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know. How about all of those times when she called him an idiot or annoying, or punched him in the face for being "stupid," or punched him for being "perverted." And please, do not throw the Tsundere excuse at me. I know what it is. I don't like it. Don't tell me it's for comedy. I don't find it funny, and no other man should. If the genders were reversed, there would be outrage. It's a double standard, and I don't take it lightly.



Yeah, and where was he when all of the kids of the village treated him like a loser and a nuisance? Where was she when the adults of the village treated him like a monster? Where was she when he had no parents, no friends, no one to love him? You wouldn't call that inconsiderate? I sure would. Of course he acts out as a prankster. How else would be be noticed? How else would she even see him? It's been stated as much in the manga and in the anime countless times, and it's even been established as a critical plot point and staple of his character development. Why was it acceptable for her to see him as undeserving of even the slightest amount of affection or dignity, and yet totally unacceptable for him to try and get her attention by whatever means he could?



Exactly, and it's because she didn't bother to think of how he felt. Which is why she had that look of sharp, painful revalation when Sasuke chastised her for it and pointed out the errors of her thinking. She couldn't even bring herself to be nicer to him even when she knew that she should. It took time before she was, and only after he went above and beyond the call of duty to earn it.



And Naruto was treated that way and worse by the entire village, to the point where the vast majority of them would rather have seen him dead, and would happily murder him if they thought the Hokage would allow it. If she thought it was so important for him to respect her feelings, regardless of how he felt about her, then why was she not practicing what she preached? Why did she not take the time to understand how much he suffered?



She turned down his advances without even bothering to consider whether or not he was sincere because she spent precisely no time trying to undersand how he felt. She didn't bother to consider that he suffered the same thing she has on a much larger, more dangerous and depressing scale. She was just one more person he was seeking attention from, even with the addition of loving her. So if she understood how that felt, then why did she never bother to consider his feelings?



Was he? Well, if that's the case, then why did he not realize it sooner since they have so much history of this? I find it much more likely that he is persistent, and intends to keep his chin up, determined to win her over no matter how many times she turns him down, hits him, or even if she does hate him. You know, sorta like how he was determined to be recognized by everyone else in the village at the time.



I'm not saying that she doesn't care about him, nor am I saying that she doesn't appreciate what he has done for her. I never said that. Clearly she does, more and more as the series went on. But even so, how does her caring for him and appreciating him make the way she used to treat him any more acceptable? How is it justified? In fact, how does it not make her past behavior even more abhorent in hindsight?



Once again, this has nothing to do with whether or not she preferred Sasuke to Naruto then. It has nothing to do with whether or not she cares for Naruto. It has everything to do with how she used to treat him, how he's proven himself to her and earned her respect, how he has earned her love, and how it would make the fans feel if she still insisted on loving Sasuke even after all of it. Whether or not she feels that way is not a choice, it's just how she feels, and we can't fault her for it. But by that same token, it's not the fans' choice to feel angry for the possibility of Naruto being slighted and falling short after everything he has done for her and for the village.



Yes, let's look at how she acted toward Rock Lee. Because I seem to remember her being disgusted by his eyebrows and his hair, calling him "too unique." I remember her dodging his comical eye-heart-kisses as though they were poison darts. I remember her being driven near vomit when he promised to protect her with his life. I only remember her tossing him a grin once he actually made good on that promised and risked his life to save hers.

Look, I'm not saying she hasn't improved. I'm not saying that she hasn't grown up, and that she isn't worthy of Naruto's love. She has, and she is. She's learned that other people have feelings, too, and that they should be considered. Not everything I disliked about her behavior changed, but then again, not everything could. She just wouldn't be the same character if that was the case. All I'm saying is that these characters are not omniscient. They do not know what is going on inside her head. All they can do is guage her intentions by her actions. And whether or not a girl had internal conflict about liking me based on what I'd done for her, if I saw her falling head over heels for another guy, and then hitting me and yelling at me just for being who I am, I would not take kindly to it. Most guys wouldn't, especially not in our country. It hurts, I've experienced it. I do not accept the Tsundere excuse here, because I am not criticizing who she is now, nor am I criticizing who she was destined to become based on her archetype. I am criticizing how it feels to be treated that way, and the fact that Naruto did not deserve that treatment. I am criticizing how it would feel to Naruto if she still preferred Sasuke.

I still like Sakura for how she's developed. I still hope she ends up with Naruto. But after all of the investment in their hopes for her change of heart toward Naruto (romantically speaking), and after all of the thought she's put into what's gone on around her, all of the emotional growth, it is easy to see how some fans would lose respect for her if she relapsed like that. If you are a true fan, then you do not try to justify her every little action regardless of how it made the other characters or fans feel. You own up to her mistakes, her faults and her shortcomings, and you take the journey of improvement with her.

I still like Sakura, and I still support her even though I don't like how she treated Naruto in the beginning. I do not try to make excuses for it, because that's not what a fan should do. Her character is human, deliberately so. What matters is not who she was, but who she has become. And that's exactly why it would matter if she relapsed back into her infatuation with Sasuke.



You speak nothing but the truth that's how I feel about her character, don't get me wrong I feel that way about Naruto too. Sometimes Sakura will try to open up to him and he will his advance with her or diss mist what she have to say plus he always mentioning Sasuke...
Sakura hes been wrong before, but Naruto have a lot of fault too he like to be reminding her that she most always love Sasuke no matter what because he will fix everithing.

Edited by donjoseph19, 26 March 2012 - 03:29 PM.


#167 Gravenimage

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

QUOTE (donjoseph19 @ Mar 26 2012, 08:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You speak nothing but the truth that's how I feel about her character, don't get me wrong I feel that way about Naruto too. Sometimes Sakura will try to open up to him and he will his advance with her or diss mist what she have to say plus he always mentioning Sasuke...
Sakura hes been wrong before, but Naruto have a lot of fault too he like to be reminding her that she most always love Sasuke no matter what because he will fix everithing.


Not to mention building a huge wall of denial around himself convinced that Sakura will always love Sasuke no matter what and that the Uchiha is the only one right for her who will make her happy. He's dense for not noticing the times Sakura has flirt or made any short advances towards him I don't think she was offended by it because she know him well.
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#168 Fenris

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:45 PM

Well, I agree. But for some reason, I think that the forehead scene will take a load off him, or just some kind of development will happen between them where he feels that she's over Sasuke. Or something like that, I think he got a taste of her being over Sasuke just a teeny bit when the Team 7 pictre shattered in his head at the confession chapter.
 
 
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#169 PachucoDesigns

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:55 PM

Thanks. I'm glad to see that there are people here who prefer to see her as human first and Tsundere distantly second. You know, considering that it's the ultimate goal of the character creation process.

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Mar 26 2012, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not to mention building a huge wall of denial around himself convinced that Sakura will always love Sasuke no matter what and that the Uchiha is the only one right for her who will make her happy. He's dense for not noticing the times Sakura has flirt or made any short advances towards him I don't think she was offended by it because she know him well.


I'm sorry, but I don't really see what you see here. I don't think he's in denial about her loving him. Why would he be? That's what he wanted all this time. If he's persistent about anything, it's that she will never love him, and she will always love Sasuke. But I see nothing in his thought process about whether or not he is right for her. And further, I haven't seen her flirt or make any short advances, either. You'll have to show me examples of this.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 26 March 2012 - 08:08 PM.

On the morning of Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, my Aunt Karla passed away. She was my mother's baby sister, and my coolest aunt when I was a kid. She was the best babysitter ever, and she was like an older sister to me.

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#170 Gravenimage

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:15 PM

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 26 2012, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks. I'm glad to see that there are people here who prefer to see her as human first and Tsundere distantly second. You know, considering that it's the ultimate goal of the character creation process.



I'm sorry, but I don't really see what you see here. I don't think he's in denial about her loving him. Why would he be? That's what he wanted all this time. If he's persistent about anything, it's that she will never love him, and she will always love Sasuke. But I see nothing in his thought process about whether or not he is right for her. And further, I haven't seen her flirt or make any short advances, either. You'll have to show me examples of this.


Read the manga chapter 245 onwards not the anime.
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#171 Phantom_999

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:40 PM

QUOTE (Konoha'sCrimsonFox @ Mar 25 2012, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lol, that's is why I write it in the past tense (treated) instead of (treats) present tense.


Hey dude!!! Happy you're still here. I was hoping you weren't feeling antagonized. smile.gif Some here are VERY passionate about our pairing. wink.gif

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 25 2012, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
headdesk.gif Nevermind. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

Bottom line, I do not like the Tsundere archetype, nor do I accept it as a defense fow why she treated Naruto the way she did. However, I do like who she has become, I do think she has grown in a very noble way, and I do want to see her with Naruto in the end.


Oho. Then just say so without arguing in circles. It gets confusing if you keep arguing back and forth without directly explaining your real feelings. It's fine that you don't we won't judge you. smile.gif

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Mar 26 2012, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Read the manga chapter 245 onwards not the anime.


Welll that's assuming he doesn't read the manga right buddy.? wink.gif

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 March 2012 - 08:42 PM.

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#172 Don-kun

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:53 PM

QUOTE (PachucoDesigns @ Mar 26 2012, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks. I'm glad to see that there are people here who prefer to see her as human first and Tsundere distantly second. You know, considering that it's the ultimate goal of the character creation process.



I'm sorry, but I don't really see what you see here. I don't think he's in denial about her loving him. Why would he be? That's what he wanted all this time. If he's persistent about anything, it's that she will never love him, and she will always love Sasuke. But I see nothing in his thought process about whether or not he is right for her. And further, I haven't seen her flirt or make any short advances, either. You'll have to show me examples of this.



Not only 245 there was a scene where Sakura try to tell him that it wasn't about Gaara worry she was worry about him, then another one where Sia tell Sakura that he doesn't understand that kind of feeling she have for Naruto and he cut them off, and the biggest one the her confession. Naruto thinks that Sakura cannot like him because she loves Sasuke when she spell out the reason why she will/could love him... Yes she was laying about Sasuke, but I will call Sakura a detesteble person if she never have any feeling for Naruto and only try to ask him to return with herfor her own sake, but saying that is igniring all the development between them...
Last thing what did Sai say? Sakura comfess to you to minimize the burden of the poal (promise) not because she want to use his feelings.

So yes I think Naruto have some fault too, after the guy try to kill the girl I love, I will try my best to comfort her and show her that just like she say I always been there for her, I will always be there. not say something stupid like I will die with him, or I cannot be Hokage because I needs to Save my friend (he save a Village for god sake) or he wants Team 7 to smile again Sasuke included.
Why does he always think that he cannot live with Sasuke or that he is better than him, when Naruto by far he is a better Person.

Edited by donjoseph19, 26 March 2012 - 11:02 PM.


#173 Fenris

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:07 PM

Databook: "How many faces does a woman have!? As many as the feelings she hides in her heart."
I've come to the theory that Sakura is hiding her feelings for Naruto deep down in her heart, showing at the times she's either vulnerable or slips out. It's been, (A) stated in the databook, and (B) hinted various ways. It's quite a possibility, right?
 
 
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#174 Dragunov

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:00 AM

QUOTE (Fenris @ Mar 26 2012, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Databook: "How many faces does a woman have!? As many as the feelings she hides in her heart."
I've come to the theory that Sakura is hiding her feelings for Naruto deep down in her heart, showing at the times she's either vulnerable or slips out. It's been, (A) stated in the databook, and (B) hinted various ways. It's quite a possibility, right?

yes it is fenris. I think shes all ready decided who it is she loves though, but maybe she really is trying to hide those feelings. But why is she doing that though? What would she gain by hiding away her feelings like that?

#175 PachucoDesigns

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:19 AM

QUOTE (donjoseph19 @ Mar 26 2012, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not only 245 there was a scene where Sakura try to tell him that it wasn't about Gaara worry she was worry about him, then another one where Sia tell Sakura that he doesn't understand that kind of feeling she have for Naruto and he cut them off, and the biggest one the her confession. Naruto thinks that Sakura cannot like him because she loves Sasuke when she spell out the reason why she will/could love him... Yes she was laying about Sasuke, but I will call Sakura a detesteble person if she never have any feeling for Naruto and only try to ask him to return with herfor her own sake, but saying that is igniring all the development between them...
Last thing what did Sai say? Sakura comfess to you to minimize the burden of the poal (promise) not because she want to use his feelings.

So yes I think Naruto have some fault too, after the guy try to kill the girl I love, I will try my best to comfort her and show her that just like she say I always been there for her, I will always be there. not say something stupid like I will die with him, or I cannot be Hokage because I needs to Save my friend (he save a Village for god sake) or he wants Team 7 to smile again Sasuke included.
Why does he always think that he cannot live with Sasuke or that he is better than him, when Naruto by far he is a better Person.


I've seen these points. I do not see them as advances toward Naruto. And I'm sorry, though that confession may have carried some weight of honesty, the confession itself had an ulterior motive behind it. And until Sakura confesses to him simply for the sake of confessing, I do not blame him for turning it down. It's not that he believes she could never love him. If he did believe that, I doubt he'd keep trying. But he's not so foolish as to not see the motive behind her confession. After everything he's been through, I don't blame him for taking offense at that confession. Not the idea that she loves him, but the way she went about it and tried to use it as a device to stop him from chasing Sasuke.

QUOTE (Dragunov @ Mar 27 2012, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yes it is fenris. I think shes all ready decided who it is she loves though, but maybe she really is trying to hide those feelings. But why is she doing that though? What would she gain by hiding away her feelings like that?


If it doesn't make sense, then it probably isn't right. I don't think she has completely decided yet. I think there's too much conflict around her to give it the consideration it deserves.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 27 March 2012 - 01:27 AM.

On the morning of Wednesday, April 11th, 2012, my Aunt Karla passed away. She was my mother's baby sister, and my coolest aunt when I was a kid. She was the best babysitter ever, and she was like an older sister to me.

Karly, I don't know if you can hear this. I am not a believer, I haven't been since Sheryl died. But if you can, I want you to know that I'm truly sorry for everything bad I've ever said about you. When you were suffering, I should have been there to help you. I should have visited. I should have encouraged you to leave the house and get a job, to be active and alive the way you used to be.

I promise that I will do everything that I can to be successful and a good person, to make you proud the way you would have wanted me to. No matter what I said, I loved you. And I will always love you. Rest in Peace, you will never be forgotten.

#176 Phantom_999

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:11 AM

Well maybe not but it gives indication to her feelings at least.

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#177 Don-kun

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:25 AM

@PachucoDesigns
Sorry if you did not get my point but her actions are clear. Is like I always say actions speak louder than words...
296 or 297, the ramen feeding scene, his req for a date and her answer was yes but cut out by Shika and tema, Sakura screaming Naruto's name in moment of despiar, the tender hug and her screaming his name at the moment he was about to kill him self with Sasuke says a lot. so yes there has been advance with Sakura with Naruto I cannot say the same for him because he is so dense...
The problem with Sakura is that even that it shows she may have strong feelings for Naruto, her crush for Sasuke as always been in her in the way and with Naruto making her think about Sasuke it make it even harder and even worse when he keep restoring her fate.

You see Sasuke has never been with Sakura the way Sakura has been with Naruto
and Naruto has never been with Hinata the way Sakura has been with him.
So yes there has been advance the problem is that Kishi make Sakura and Naruto focus too much on Sasuke especially Naruto.
For example he make Sakura think about him after he try to kill her, Naruto Hiperbolating over Sasuke, kneeling down at the Raikage for Sasuke, asking himself if Sasuke is thinking about him and Sakura having silly reason for not hitting Sasuke after he almost kill her and gating her self almost kill again.

The only reason that there is a NH because Hinata always thinking about Naruto what is not that bad..
SasuNaru because Kishi makes Naruto look funny (p*ssy) with his behavior when it comes to Sasuke
SasuSaku look how bad it make Sakura look.
With NaruSaku can you say the same when the two of them acknowledge each other and deeply care about the other party, can you say the same about SasuNaru, NH and SS?

Edited by donjoseph19, 27 March 2012 - 03:51 AM.


#178 Phantom_999

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:31 AM

Oh I agree Joseph, but He meant he did not see is as flirting or advances on Naruto. However it show the close relationship that they have together, and as far as I'm concerned it's romantic interaction.

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 March 2012 - 02:31 AM.

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#179 Gravenimage

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:23 AM

QUOTE (Dragunov @ Mar 26 2012, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yes it is fenris. I think shes all ready decided who it is she loves though, but maybe she really is trying to hide those feelings. But why is she doing that though? What would she gain by hiding away her feelings like that?


Maybe she thinks she's not worthy to love Naruto after all the pain she has caused him. After everything he has done for her she feels like she doesn't deserve to have his love and affection, maybe she's putting a mask to hide away those strong feelings she has for him.
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#180 KeikoxYusuke

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:37 AM

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Mar 27 2012, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe she thinks she's not worthy to love Naruto after all the pain she has caused him. After everything he has done for her she feels like she doesn't deserve to have his love and affection, maybe she's putting a mask to hide away those strong feelings she has for him.



you know, I never thought of it like that.. omfg.gif that makes sense tho, considering how often Sakura feels bad about her mistakes when it comes to Naruto.

awww..I think I just fall in love with this pairing even more!! danarusakunp3.gif love.gif

Edited by KeikoxYusuke, 27 March 2012 - 03:37 AM.

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