234 replies to this topic

[Chivalrysae]

Or since he's removed the evil tendencies from the Kyuubi Chakra, I vote his demon cloak be of Chibi Kyuubi. Madara will be undone by his cuteness-no-jutsu.

[Zin]

Well, I guess I'm alone on this one.


Who cares if it looks evil. Ichigo from Bleach has an evil looking hollow transformation yet he's a good guy, what kind of logic is there to get a different transformation when gaining control of a tailed beast just because the old one looked evil. If the demon cloak is the standard jinchuriki transformation (with the exception of Gaara in part 1) then I don't see why Naruto should be excused from this standard as well. Naruto said it himself that he tried deny that he was a jinchuriki by using his own power because that power was what got Sakura hurt at the bridge. He said he can no longer deny the fact that he's a jinchuriki and has excepted it. Going by that phrase, it would make more sense for Naruto's expectance of being a jinchuriki for him to transform into a demonic, monstrous, evil looking form. That way, it will show that Naruto is excepting of being a jinchuriki even though his appearence may look scary to others. Just because Naruto may look scary to some in the demon cloak, doesn't mean that it makes him a monster on the inside (when in control, of course) as well. That's what I believe.

Heh, I actually liked Ichigo's transformation...But Ichigo was never pure in my mind either and he still retains somewhat of a human visage.

If we're talking about how logical it is that he has a different transformation, then no, it doesn't make sense that he would have a different transformation.

I can't see Naruto using techniques and such while using the demon cloak, even if he had complete control. And if it comes down to just trading blows back and forth ? I'd rather just go watch DBZ...Ninja techniques are why I enjoy the fighting in Naruto...

Edited by Zin, 06 August 2010 - 10:56 PM.

[Strangelove]

Purify in the aspect that Naruto doesn't have evil intentions. Why do you think he had to face his darker self in the early starts of his training.

[Faexylona]

Excellent transition from the last emotional-pact chapter. I am starting to warm up to Bee. His...raping is not as annoying. Like many people, I am looking forward to Kisame's fight with the "bizarre beast", as he calls Gai.

I did notice Kushina's advice about girls was ignored

On a different note, I am not sure if some of you are aware that some people post the latest chapters on youtube. I read this chapter on Wednesday around five pm pacific time, so maybe you don't have to download the pages, one at a time.

[19maria9]

I love how he completely disregard the part about women.

[Quinny52]

To be fair to people who are feelin' down 'cause Naruto never mentioned the girlfriend issue, there's one other thing he never mentioned either, drinking before he's 20. But just because he didn't mention it doesn't mean he's gonna try and raid Tsunade's cubboards for some sake, does it? (Although it would be funny if he tried it and got caught).

So like others have said, don't let it get to ya.

[Zin]

Purify in the aspect that Naruto doesn't have evil intentions. Why do you think he had to face his darker self in the early starts of his training.

It was more of an image of Naruto rather than him being completely pure. Or you could always look at it from the angle that now that he has faced his darker part he does have a sense of purity to him...take that whatever way you like...

As long as Naruto maintains his ability to use techniques I don't think it'll bother me too much no matter what transformation is used. I just don't feel the demon cloak suits Naruto's persona.

Edited by Zin, 07 August 2010 - 02:49 AM.

[Gaara's hair]

I found sleepyfans translations at narutoverse.org.

[pharix]

Edit : Can't wait to see both Gai and Killer bee together...that alone, I'm sure, will give us an interesting entertainment

oh god. oh no.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Well, considering that the demon cloak is most likely as a result of the Kyuubi's influence, now that the Kyuubi's will/essence has been removed from his chakra, it makes sense that this time it's more of a 'human cloak' after all. I'd actually just expected Naruto to just be covered in chakra or just have access to the Kyuubi's chakra without its poisonous qualities, but obviously he gained much more than that.... Hell, my idea of defeating Madara's teleportation technique was just for Naruto to punch through Madara's body and leave poisonous chakra in the areas around the 'warp hole' that Madara uses.....

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 07 August 2010 - 04:28 AM.

[ciardha]

I don't want Naruto to get something different from Killer Bee for the sake of surpassing the next generation or having purified tailed beast chakra in order to bring peace to the world or some idealistic bull crap like that. I'd rather see Naruto doing Lariat or Head butt or even Liger bomb if Killer Bee and the Raikage share all of those same jutsu with each other. If this is Naruto's tailed beast transformation, then Kishimoto has screwed up like he screwed up with Dark Naruto. He could have made him into an awesome polar opposite psychotic badass like Hollow Ichigo from Bleach but to he go in that direction? No. Instead, he made him into a crybaby that has easily defeated by a hug. ONE F***ING HUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

K9, if you want that go read Bleach, Dragonball, etc... A lot of people actually like what you call bs. I'm not as interested in Bleach because to me the fights take up too much of the chapters, and I never got into Dragonball because as far as I could tell it was just one fight after another, without much else- that bores me as a reader. I want psychology, philosophy, examinations of social structures, etc... I get that with Naruto.

Kishimoto has been working this direction with Naruto since the beginning- remember what Naruto said after Haku and Zabuza's deaths? It's been there all along, and in part two has become one of the dominant themes. I love it, it makes it a rather strongly philosophical story.

And rather than a Jesus and Christianity angle, it's all about Buddhist and Taoist teachings, with a dollop of Shinto

[catsi563]

K9, if you want that go read Bleach, Dragonball, etc... A lot of people actually like what you call bs. I'm not as interested in Bleach because to me the fights take up too much of the chapters, and I never got into Dragonball because as far as I could tell it was just one fight after another, without much else- that bores me as a reader. I want psychology, philosophy, examinations of social structures, etc... I get that with Naruto.

Kishimoto has been working this direction with Naruto since the beginning- remember what Naruto said after Haku and Zabuza's deaths? It's been there all along, and in part two has become one of the dominant themes. I love it, it makes it a rather strongly philosophical story.

And rather than a Jesus and Christianity angle, it's all about Buddhist and Taoist teachings, with a dollop of Shinto

I agree whole heartedly. Form the very beginning when Naruto saved Iruka Kishimoto-sensei has put forward an over arcing theme of bonds, and how deep they run and how those bonds affect us and those around us. Heck how they can affect the very world in which we live.

Friend bonds, sibling bonds, parental bonds, teacher bonds, bonds of love, pain, lonliness, hatred. All of them have been shown and touched on in one form or fashion.

[tricksie]

Reading the rest of the posts in this thread, then flipping over to mangastream to look at the image again, I'd mention one more thing about THE picture and it's composition.

The negative space between Naruto and Sakura really draws your eye right to them. Between them the background is empty, it's just a bubble of white space. This is noteworthy because it is a heavily detailed image. That white spot, that calm area in the busy image, helps draw your eye right to those two. The contrast is heightened by the heavy use of black at Sakura's back, with Hinata's thick swath of hair, and Sai's close position. It reinforces Sakura's body angle toward Naruto.

About the body positioning, Sakura's turned toward her and visually we want to fill in the blank that Naruto is turning toward her. It's speculation on our part (we don't know what he's intending to do), but the set up of Sakura as paying full attention to him makes the viewer think they've interrupted something. Naruto's body angle is awkward, and our brain wants to resolve that by continuing the movement that he's been interrupted from.

So, in short, it reinforces the text that's going on at the time: we want him to say the bit about the girl. The series of pictures, the series of responses is building up to it. It's right there, on the tip of our tongue, on the tip of our brain...but he never says it. The picture's the same thing, it's right there, but the thought isn't completed. We don't have resolution in the image, we don't have resolution in the text.

Kishi could have chosen a million different poses, yet he chose this one. It's bigger than the rest, and we're meant to look at it. If anything, putting Hinata dead center and hiding her face demands we take a deeper look at the picture. If she were facing forward, there would be no underlying story to think about. No automatic "Why?" that comes to your mind.

A few people mentioned why go over the pictures, the text is what matters (something to that effect), and all I have to say is we have gone around and around with some mistranslations and flat-out intentionally wrong translations. The images are the other half of this story, and the means with which the author communicates directly with the reader. Whether you look at the little nuances, the choices he's made — body position, angle and crop of the panel, facial expressions, cut of the eyes, etc. — then you're missing part of the story the Kishi is conveying.

It's interesting to me personally to see how he ties the story and the imagery together. And just because I read more into an illustration doesn't mean I'm desperately grasping for some proof. To me, the Naru/Saku pairing has been clearly developed from the start. Actually, I'm looking for the buildup. I'm interested in why the author/illustrator made the choices he did.

(I could go on to tell you that I that I think the body positions of Sakura and Hinata are purposefully set up to contrast each other — one has an open expression while one is closed off, one is bodily turned in acceptance while one is still curled in on herself, and one has her fist up in support, recognizing Naruto as a powerful person, while the other has her hands clasped in fear/hope, giving in to worry more than trust of Naruto — but I think that might be overdoing it a bit! )

edit: Oh yeah, the only other spot with white space is between Ino and TenTen.... I've just killed my own argument with a crack pairing!

Edited by tricksie, 07 August 2010 - 01:41 PM.

[Quinny52]

^ And it was a good arguement too, until your little InoTen hint destroyed it. Frankly I'm disappointed.










... Just kidding

But yes, I adored reading your post. I might not read into the meaning of a picture to the extent as you seem to do, but I could definately understand what you were conveying. The post was a great read, and it really gets one thinking of such possibilities. + Reps.

[James S Cassidy]

A few people mentioned why go over the pictures, the text is what matters (something to that effect), and all I have to say is we have gone around and around with some mistranslations and flat-out intentionally wrong translations. The images are the other half of this story, and the means with which the author communicates directly with the reader. Whether you look at the little nuances, the choices he's made — body position, angle and crop of the panel, facial expressions, cut of the eyes, etc. — then you're missing part of the story the Kishi is conveying.

Manga and comic books portray things through imagery and speech. Not so much text. Manga are not the same as say a novel. You are right that half the story telling IS in the imagery and that it cannot be ignore entirely. Though in truth sometimes you can't take things too literal. If you say a manga is all about the text them instead of "looking" at the manga. Only read the text and see how much you can understand without the visuals. You will miss about half if not most of the info on the page. Depending on how much text is there. Some panels have no text at all.

If I learned anything about design is that when we make a drawing we always make it so your eyes moves across picture. Here Kishimoto seems to use the diagonal movement with the focal point being Naruto's eye. Since he is also the biggest one in the panel it is assume we have to focus our eye there first and them follow the movement downward.

If you want to be really technical, the eye movement makes a Z-shape with Naruto's eye still being the focal point.

Something like this

movement --Click here to view--

Movement 2

If this was a planned attempt at hierarchy of any kind, it is a good to note that both Sakura and Hinata's eyes (more or less) also fall along the same line of eye movement, but Sakura obvious falls first on that line. I know someone might say the movement could go the other way, but the rule of thumb is that the you always start with the most dominate object first which is Naruto.

What does this mean? I don't know really. Could mean anything, but why Kishimoto decided to draw this image like that is interesting to say the least especially since this is supposed to be within Naruto's own reasoning.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 07 August 2010 - 02:35 PM.

[desaix]

The thing that puzzles me most about that picture isn't anything to do with the relative placement of characters, but rather "Who the heck is that standing behind Lee and Neji?" Is that ball-cap and glasses supposed to be Shino?

I think there's a whole lot of mountains being made of molehills in reaction this chapter. Is there anything to be gleen from the image of his friends? Meh... maybe, but nothing conclusive either way. Is it significant that Naruto didn't mention his mother's girl advice? No. Or at least, if there is, it's just as likely it was 'left out' because, as with not drinking, it was something he had been pretty clear about from the first possible moment in the series as it is that he's holding back because of some reluctance on his part. I think it's much more likely that the author only had a limited amount of space to show that Naruto was following his mother's advice, so he skipped out on a couple (possibly choosing the girl one solely because it would continue to build doubt in the minds of people like us).

[Verilance]

The thing that puzzles me most about that picture isn't anything to do with the relative placement of characters, but rather "Who the heck is that standing behind Lee and Neji?" Is that ball-cap and glasses supposed to be Shino?

it isn't a ball cap it is his hood and yes it is Shino

Edited by Verilance, 07 August 2010 - 03:19 PM.

[jason voorhees]

soupy is correct yes hinata seems to have a shy hand posture but she also is not looking at narutobut even if she is its the same.
from my pov it looks like hinata confession did little to change how he thinks of her (a friend). looking at sakura she seems to be looking very fondly at him this part im with @catsi,ciard i think on some level he has excepted the fact she does have romantic feelings there for him.

ciardha@ i understand you have over 30 years of manga reading and i bet money you know all the plot lines kish must follow but i notice you to me become little biased you know how the story will tern out but you sometimes make overestimated views what i mean is you know the story to well.
im not trying to be mean jest honest

Edited by hypno toad, 07 August 2010 - 04:55 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Ah, poor Shino....so quiet and still in the background.
Oh and making Naruto a psychotic badass? That would totally be cool, but would totally be a very OOC depiction of the character. He is, first and foremost, an idealistic character in a world where there s a cycle of hatred. The fact that he maintains his upbeat personality and is actively trying to break that cycle of hatred despite what everyone says is pure determination. He's not a battle-hardened veteran, he's a teenager who's striving to be the best and to be recognized. Of course, his father even entrusted him with the duty of trying to break that chain of hatred, and how would he turn down a request from the Fourth Hokage especially when Naruto is his son. He's like King Arthur in some stories; never losing that idealism even when his knights clamored for violence. Besides, a Jesus-Messiah can still be badass, just look at Neo! And even Goku maintained his idealism throughout his adventures.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 07 August 2010 - 04:39 PM.

[ShippudenGirl]

Awe the whole picture thing makes sense. I sadly overlooked it when reading the chapter, though I did notice how close Naruto & Sakura were >D