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The Official SasuKarin Thread

SasuKarin Uchiha Sasuke Karin

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Poll: SasuKarin Poll (77 member(s) have cast votes)

Rate how much you like SasuKarin. 10 is the highest rating while 1 is the lowest.

  1. 10 (12 votes [15.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.58%

  2. 9 (7 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  3. 8 (9 votes [11.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.69%

  4. 7 (11 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  5. 6 (6 votes [7.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.79%

  6. 5 (9 votes [11.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.69%

  7. 4 (6 votes [7.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.79%

  8. 3 (1 votes [1.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.30%

  9. 2 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  10. 1 (16 votes [20.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.78%

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#161 Nate River

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:43 AM

Let's put it this way: her Uzumaki heritage might either be used for something relevant (hence serving as another example to prove that no, Karin hasn't outlived her role) or it might quietly fade into the background without any fuss. While we may argue in favor of one possibility or another, fact remains that right now, both could happen. We won't know whether it means anything or not until the manga ends and we can say for sure. So we'll have to wait and seeing what he does with it.
 
I still ask myself the same thing whenever I remember it. I thought Kishi had decided to keep Sasuke "dark" and as a clear antagonist until his fight with Naruto; otherwise I saw no point to it. But to be honest, the moment I heard that Kishi "recently" decided on "such turn of events for Sasuke's character" I figured it'd turn out like this. It's like he did it on a whim and then decided he didn't really want to go there [wherever there was] and so he made Sasuke have yet another change.
 
I could explain why I feel that it does prove it, but I have the feeling I'd be wasting both of our times because I don't quite think the character interests you enough to read analysis about her :laugh though if I'm wrong, do let me know.


Probably so. I think at this point we are at an impasse for much of what you said. I've read quiet a bit about her, I just don't see it the way you do. Perhaps I am unfair comparing her to Sakura, but I see Sakura as well fleshed out and deep. I see Karin as a pale imitation.

 

I understand your first point. If you ask me, there are a couple of reasons as to why they haven't been "explained", as you put it, and they all have to do with

Sasuke's brand of character. Sasuke is meant to be mysterious; so his companions and his relationship to them must be mysterious in turn. Sasuke is not a sentimental character; so Taka's development as a Team is not handled with grand declarations of friendship as has more or less been the norm so far, but in subtle ways that still get the message across if one cares to look. Sasuke does not want to accept that he harbors important bonds with people right now; so Taka has to wait to be addressed because Sasuke indeed is their main link to the story. I won't deny that their main purpose is to exist as a Team for him; a team that compliments and balances him out. They were needed for Sasuke's character; because he needed other people to bond with, too.


I've heard they were forced on him by his editors. I tend to believe that because they, to me, are handled like he has no idea what he wants to do with them. Except for Karin's imitation of a barometer they have always felt this way. I don't think there is a deep, hidden reason for their handling.

He has a habit of creating characters for a singular purpose and when done with that purpose allows to hang around like moldy cheese. So he has a ton of characters who could be interesting if fleshed out. It was a valuable lesson to me. if I ever wrote character control will be at the forfront of my mind. I think it's an understandable mistake. I just hope he sees it and avoids it in future works.

Finally, like many other aspects, I disagree that they were needed. I don't think they have be able to bring out anything in his character that could have been done in their absence. This is especially true of Suigetsu and Juugo.

If I could only ask him one question there inclusion would be it.
 

Now, now, I'd hardly call Juugo and Suigetsu falling into a cave a "moment under the sun" :sweat: I believe there's more in store for them and that there's foreshadowing supporting it, so let's wait and see.


It's not. I just think it's the closest they will ever get. It's the only they ever did that could be called moving the plot.
 

It seems I'm rooting for you to have more reasons to hate them then   :lol: But to be fair, it's hard to compare Sakura and Kakashi's treatment to Taka's. As you said, Sakura and Kakashi have been here since the beginning; Sakura in particular we have seen grow up right in front of our very eyes. Taka is different because when they were introduced, they had already gone through the tragedies that shaped their lives and their personalities; more-over, while they were introduced in 2007, they have gone MIA from the manga for extended periods of time whenever Sasuke takes a break. So most of their development comes from the development of their bonds as a team; which again, while it isn't in your face as tends to be the case in the manga, it is there.



It's probably not fair, but the treatment they got could have been something the author was doing with Not Seven since they came into being. They have been around for a long time and yet, for all that, stagnant comes to mind as a way to describe two of the three. I running out of negative descriptors to use for what he did to Karin.

The development of their bonds is not in your face because it borders on non-existent. I call them Team Not Seven (Broken Figurine is the creator of that) because they are such a cheap imitation of the original. I think Naruto's relationship with Sai has gotten better attention.

 

But that's the thing, he didn't have to rewrite anything because he wasn't contradicting anything. I understand why you may consider it lazy writing so while I may not share your opinion, I won't dispute it. About 485 though, the thing is that the translation didn't really capture the feeling of the line; it was pretty obvious all along that Karin wasn't over Sasuke nor anywhere close to getting over him. Taking into account her background, I also disagree with Sasuke saving her being the sole basis of her feelings for him. But since this hasn't been shown on panel, I understand why you may see it that way.


Then what is it? Even those feelings matter or are serious then shouldn't we know? Even Hinata is treated better than this.

And that's just it. Not shown on panel? That's barely a step from not happening. It's too akin to that that it, to me, is an argument with no weight. If these feelings and her character are important they should get shown. The fact that you have to say that speaks volumes.

Not contradicting anything isn't anything to write home about. Instead of developing them from her introduction he went back and crammed it in a flashback into. It's one of his big crutches as an author. It's lazy and a cop-out. It sucks.

#162 redragon88

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:44 AM

I still ask myself the same thing whenever I remember it. I thought Kishi had decided to keep Sasuke "dark" and as a clear antagonist until his fight with Naruto; otherwise I saw no point to it. But to be honest, the moment I heard that Kishi "recently" decided on "such turn of events for Sasuke's character" I figured it'd turn out like this. It's like he did it on a whim and then decided he didn't really want to go there [wherever there was] and so he made Sasuke have yet another change.

 

Wait, there's an interview in which Kishi said that Sasuke going dark in the Summit arc was just a decision of the moment and not part of the grand plan?

 

So the reason Sasuke went from nuts to chill so quickly during the war was because Kishi regretted taking Sasuke's character in the dark direction during the Summit arc?



#163 Nate River

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:49 AM

Wait, there's an interview in which Kishi said that Sasuke going dark in the Summit arc was just a decision of the moment and not part of the grand plan?
 
So the reason Sasuke went from nuts to chill so quickly during the war was because Kishi regretted taking Sasuke's character in the dark direction during the Summit arc?


It would explain alot if that was the case. An it sounded like a good idea at the time, kind of thing. Only then to realize that, oh crap, it's going to cause him problems down the line.

#164 shisui

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:56 AM

Nope, I didn't. The only thing I can think of is that you're misremembering something I wrote when I posted the manifesto's draft back in 2009. That being that: "aside from the series' 'Main Pairing' SK quite possible was the [het] pairing that had gotten the most mutual development".

 

There it is. Finally she admits it. Now, to wait about the admissions everytime the subject gets brought up, manifesto or no manifesto.

 

And while you may mock the statement all you want, no matter how you see it it is pretty different from what you were implying. It wasn't even a comparison to NaruSaku (least of all using it as a crutch, of all things); it was a comment I added so that people wouldn't misunderstand and say I was somehow saying SK was more developed or something, since the naruto fandom is great at jumping the gun.

 

Yes, SK uses NS as a crutch (two or maybe three crutches), and this thread proves it well. All of these people admitting they weren't interested in it until Kishi made the parallels.

 

I assume we can let the matter rest now.

Okay.


Edited by GoogleIsMyFriend, 28 April 2014 - 03:57 AM.


#165 Kanae

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:11 AM

@Nate River: Nate, I'll reply properly tomorrow since it's getting pretty late over here in my time zone  :lol:
 

Wait, there's an interview in which Kishi said that Sasuke going dark in the Summit arc was just a decision of the moment and not part of the grand plan?

Yup, it's from the same interview where the confession was touched upon. The translation is HERE, and that bit has it as:
 

杉山「ダンゾウ戦の結果はここでは言えないかもしれませんがその後鷹はどうなるのか?」
Sugiyama: "You probably can't speak of the outcome of the Danzou fight, but what happens with Taka after?"
岸本「ダンゾウ戦の結果は言えませんが、鷹の内部で色々ある(もめる?)サスケの眼つき
もどんどん悪くなる、つい最近ここいらへんの話が決まった」(サスケ関連があまり決まって
もいないような発言があったのでこんへんはあやふや)
Kishimoto: "I can't speak to what happens with the Danzou fight, but there'll be some things happening within Taka (dissent?) and the look in Sasuke's eyes will grow more and more evil. I've just recently decided on such a course of the story" (these words make it seem as if the Sasuke-related part isn't really decided upon, so take this part with a grain of salt).

 
tumblr_n4q3sb9S5l1qjnip1o1_100.gif
 

So the reason Sasuke went from nuts to chill so quickly during the war was because Kishi regretted taking Sasuke's character in the dark direction during the Summit arc?

It would explain alot if that was the case. An it sounded like a good idea at the time, kind of thing. Only then to realize that, oh crap, it's going to cause him problems down the line.

Pretty much, if you ask me. I wish Kishi had actually thought things through before making Sasuke pull the stuff he pulled. Goes to show it's really not a good thing to make up stuff on the run lol Though I guess his editors might have had something with the change of direction? Either the "towards darkness at full speed!" or the "wait wait abort bring him back to the gray-zone!" one  :twitch:


Edited by Kanae, 28 April 2014 - 04:16 AM.

 

 


#166 Yami_no_Princess

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:21 AM

Wow, that escalated quickly. We went from calm and peaceful discussion with an open-minded outsider to an outright debate which included grossly inaccurate generalizations, no less. *sigh*

 

As someone mentioned, there ARE shippers who went from shipping SK to shipping NS. I'm actually one of them. I went from shipping SasuNaru to shipping SasuKarin to shipping NaruSaku. 

 

NS had zero influence on me picking up SK. What I liked about SK was the similarities it shared with SN. Karin looked down on Sasuke and berated him much like how Naruto would trash talk Sasuke in part 1. They both would act like they hated Sasuke, but they both secretly liked and admired him. Naruto even idolized him to a degree. I also love the profound effect both Uzumakis seem to have on Sasuke. They both can bring out Sasuke's more human side, if you will. Also, both Naruto and Karin can understand Sasuke through shared life experiences. Naruto understands the loneliness part and Karin understands the pain of loss part. If SK is a redux of anything, it's part 1 SN. 

 

Shipping SK taught me a lot about how Kishi develops relationships in the manga and it made me come to respect ships like NS. Eventually I started shipping NS in its own right, but that was much later down the line after I'd convinced myself to take another look at a ship which I'd previously completely disregarded. (I knew it was probably endgame due to being genre savvy but beyond that, I just didn't care because I hated Sakura.) Did I mention how falling in love with Karin made me come to respect Sakura whom I used to hate and found annoying?

 

Don't tell me SK is just an NS pity-ship, I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for SK.



#167 LadyGT

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:04 AM

I really used to like it but after the reunion everything crumbled down for me. It's mostly due Karin's exagerated character in the last chapters.

But anyway I'll wait to see what happens in the future chapters.


 
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#168 Yami_no_Princess

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:30 AM

^Kishi's portrayal is just all over the place at the moment, I don't really blame you. I'm holding out hope for the next arc to be better.



#169 shisui

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:47 AM

Don't tell me SK is just an NS pity-ship, I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for SK.

 

Many on this thread have said that they took SK seriously because of the comparisons between SK and NS. Your individual position on SK doesn't counter all of them. It may not be the case for you but SK is NS's pity ship for many.

 

SasuNaru shipper and Sakura hater? Not surprising in the last. That's another thing to chew though.



#170 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:25 AM

 

No, luffy is right. You sound like a SasuSaku fan. That's exactly what they say about Sasuke and Sakura.

 

The same could be said about you two on how you downgrade everymoment SasuKarin has had.


Edited by BlueStarSaber, 28 April 2014 - 09:27 AM.


#171 Yami_no_Princess

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:26 AM

 

Many on this thread have said that they took SK seriously because of the comparisons between SK and NS. Your individual position on SK doesn't counter all of them. It may not be the case for you but SK is NS's pity ship for many.

 

SasuNaru shipper and Sakura hater? Not surprising in the last. That's another thing to chew though.

 

When did I say my opinion overrode the majority? I was just giving an example of that over generalization being wrong and offering a different perspective. 

 

Yes, I used to be incredibly biased and close-minded with regard to SN. Yes, my close-mindedness caused me to not give Sakura a chance. I'm not proud of my past self, but that's what I was. Heck, despite being a shipper of SN, I used to hate Sasuke, too. There was even a point in the story where I hated Naruto.   



#172 shisui

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:40 AM

 

The same could be said about you two on how you downgrade everymoment SasuKarin has had.

 

NO YOU is such a funny defensive mechanism.

 

When did I say my opinion overrode the majority? I was just giving an example of that over generalization being wrong and offering a different perspective. 

 

I said a majority, not that all of you think that way. I don't understand why you need to correct me on generalizations I never made.



#173 James S Cassidy

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:03 PM

I used to be a SasuKarin fan like you, then I took a chidori to the heart.

I liked SasuKarin, but I feel it has gotten awkward ever since the stabbing scene. Now whether or not it was a mistake or a rush job by Kishimoto does explain a lot, but at the same time the damage is already done. That scene with Sasuke becoming that maniacal really has caused more damage than good. It not only has ruined Karin's character, but ruined Sasuke's and Naruto's as well. The fact that both Naruto and Sasuke just "forget" that it happened really sucks. It makes Naruto look too gullible and have no influence on Sasuke's life, Sasuke looks like a person who lacks conviction which is important to a character like him and easily have a change of mind at the drop of a hate, and Karin looks like she has Stockholm syndrome (not unrealistic, but really unbelievable.)

Other than that, there is really nothing wrong with SK. My influence on NS has nothing to do with SK and really I saw Karin as the only girl to really show connection with Sasuke even if unconventional. She has a lot of patience with the guy which says a lot about the girl. If she was willing to go through that much for him, then perhaps she was made for him. It sounds weird, but it makes sense.

I also always liked the parallel of NS and SK. Again, not because of how they influence each other, but how the pairings influence themselves. People also don't believe in parallels, but I am one who believes they hold a significance. There has to be some reason why these two pairing always mirror each other on panel especially with the 660-670 chapters.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 April 2014 - 02:04 PM.

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#174 Kanae

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:54 PM

^ I think Kishi is overly fond of them because he finds them quite straight-forward and they come-in handy in situations when he can't directly address something  :lol: 
 
@Nate River:

reply

 

NS had zero influence on me picking up SK. What I liked about SK was the similarities it shared with SN. Karin looked down on Sasuke and berated him much like how Naruto would trash talk Sasuke in part 1. They both would act like they hated Sasuke, but they both secretly liked and admired him. Naruto even idolized him to a degree. I also love the profound effect both Uzumakis seem to have on Sasuke. They both can bring out Sasuke's more human side, if you will. Also, both Naruto and Karin can understand Sasuke through shared life experiences. Naruto understands the loneliness part and Karin understands the pain of loss part. If SK is a redux of anything, it's part 1 SN.

It's ridiculous just how similar they are lol I honestly feel there are actually more parallels here than between NaruSaku & SasuKarin, which have mostly just been juxtaposed IMO.
 

Yes, I used to be incredibly biased and close-minded with regard to SN. Yes, my close-mindedness caused me to not give Sakura a chance. I'm not proud of my past self, but that's what I was. Heck, despite being a shipper of SN, I used to hate Sasuke, too. There was even a point in the story where I hated Naruto.

I can't imagine a time where you hated Sasuke, I swear :rotfl what was it that made you hate Naruto back then, Yami?


Edited by Kanae, 28 April 2014 - 05:27 PM.

 

 


#175 Yami_no_Princess

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:47 PM

I can't imagine a time where you hated Sasuke, I swear :rotfl what was it that made you hate Naruto back then, Yami?


With Sasuke, I just gradually grew to dislike him as he did things that hurt Naruto because Naruto was my baby and I was seeing everything from only his POV and not Sasuke's. I hated Sasuke because I never bothered to try and understand him, all I saw was him making one stupid decision after the next and even though he claimed he wasn't being manipulated, that's exactly what it looked like to me. I didn't start liking him again until he reunited with his brother because Itachi brought out that side of him that makes my heart melt and I really do have a soft spot for their bond.

 

Oh Naruto, he was such a badass in the Pain arc, I gained so much respect for him in that arc, then what happens afterwards? He lets a cloud nin beat him senseless all for Sasuke's sake. I know that's supposed to be feelsy but I can't see it as anything but pathetic. If Sasuke knew about it, he wouldn't even care so why should Naruto? Then Naruto humiliates himself in front of the Raikage again for Sasuke's sake whom I'm super not fond of at this point in the story. All I can think is, "Why is Sasuke causing Naruto to act like a pussy? This isn't the Naruto from the Pain arc." Then when Garaa forces Naruto to recognize that Sasuke is in fact not the Sasuke he once knew, he starts hyperventilating and passes out. Seriously, how naive/in denial do you have to be for finding out something like that to cause you to faint? It just came off as so pathetic. I know it's supposed to be feelsy but I just didn't feel it. It was just lame the way it was done. I lost so much respect for Naruto in this arc. I frickin hated the Kage arc as a whole. It was poorly done and widely unnecessary. It took Team 7 somewhere it had no business going and just made Naruto look more pathetic than Sakura. 



#176 catsi563

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:22 PM

I remain of the opinion that Takas end game purpose--barring a major surprise--is that they are to represent Sasukes second chance and redemption.

 

Naruto and Sasuke as I see it are switching places in the manga and have been since day 1

 

Naruto = uncool, loudmouthed, braggart, idiot, hated by eveyrone

 

Sasuke = cool, quiet, confident, smart, loved by everyone

 

as the story progressed Sasuke slowly became more and more isolated, more jealous, more petty in many ways, and began to shed or weaken bonds even as he made them

 

Naruto became less isolated, more accepted, gained more bonds which he strengthened over time

 

I think the story is going in a cyclical fashion

 

Naruto through hard work and sacrifice has shifted to the cool, heroic one who everyone loves while sasuke has become the outcast the isolated one.

 

Taka and Karin represent his chance to reform bonds severed by choice and rebuild trust in his friends starting with Naruto of course and team 7, and then slowly through Taka rebuild his image and re find whats important to him


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#177 Gojira

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:26 PM

I think Karin will contribute to Sasuke surviving the destined battle to the death since none of Indra's reincarnations had any allies willing to save them or keep them alive.

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#178 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:41 PM

With Sasuke, I just gradually grew to dislike him as he did things that hurt Naruto because Naruto was my baby and I was seeing everything from only his POV and not Sasuke's. I hated Sasuke because I never bothered to try and understand him, all I saw was him making one stupid decision after the next and even though he claimed he wasn't being manipulated, that's exactly what it looked like to me. I didn't start liking him again until he reunited with his brother because Itachi brought out that side of him that makes my heart melt and I really do have a soft spot for their bond.
 
Oh Naruto, he was such a badass in the Pain arc, I gained so much respect for him in that arc, then what happens afterwards? He lets a cloud nin beat him senseless all for Sasuke's sake. I know that's supposed to be feelsy but I can't see it as anything but pathetic. If Sasuke knew about it, he wouldn't even care so why should Naruto? Then Naruto humiliates himself in front of the Raikage again for Sasuke's sake whom I'm super not fond of at this point in the story. All I can think is, "Why is Sasuke causing Naruto to act like a pussy? This isn't the Naruto from the Pain arc." Then when Garaa forces Naruto to recognize that Sasuke is in fact not the Sasuke he once knew, he starts hyperventilating and passes out. Seriously, how naive/in denial do you have to be for finding out something like that to cause you to faint? It just came off as so pathetic. I know it's supposed to be feelsy but I just didn't feel it. It was just lame the way it was done. I lost so much respect for Naruto in this arc. I frickin hated the Kage arc as a whole. It was poorly done and widely unnecessary. It took Team 7 somewhere it had no business going and just made Naruto look more pathetic than Sakura. 

Do you still think that way for the kage arc.

Edited by BlueStarSaber, 03 May 2014 - 06:42 PM.


#179 Yami_no_Princess

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 04:36 AM

Do you still think that way for the kage arc.

Nope, I've since made peace with that arc and gained a new perspective. I actually kinda like it now.



#180 Gojira

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 04:51 AM

I think we can all agree Kage Summit arc....wasn't Kishi's best...


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