31746 replies to this topic

[Shadow1275]

The only person he actually trained was Sasuke. He didn't do jack kitten for Naruto or Sakura. And before people bring up the RS training, he only told Naruto how the shadow clones work and what Naruto's chakra nature was. Asuma taught Naruto more than Kakashi did during that.

Kakashi played favorites and completely ignored Naruto and Sakura.

There is a reason for this however. The reason was because he knew that Sasuke could leave to go for Orochimaru. Kakashi specifically focused on Sasuke for this reason. He applied the heaven seal in order to protect Sasuke, but also constantly reinforced the lesson he was trying to teach Sasuke. Not to give into his vengeance and grief and to move on and make a new life for himself with Sakura and Naruto.

 

Sasuke may still go over to Orochimaru's side but he understands Kakashi's lesson and still debates what he should do. But in the end he doesn't care that its wrong and accepts the consequences.

 

Naruto was loyal to the village unlike Sasuke and wasn't looking for revenge. And Kakashi still taught him how to use shadow clones as Exp boosters and not only what his element was but which technique he should use. Then he pointed him towards Asuma for more expert advice.

 

 

Sakura was always loyal to the leaf and frankly didn't want to become anything more than Sasuke's boyfriend for most of part 1 Part 2 comes around but by then she's kind of peaked. There's nothing that Kakashi can teach her really. 

 

And before we cry favoritism let's not forget other aspects to being a teacher. Support, criticism, etc. Kakashi has that in spades taking care of both his students physical and emotional needs. examples: Telling Naruto to eat his vegetables, numerous times he's protected naruto and sakura, taking on Sakura's burden of killing Sasuke because she can't do it  etc.

Edited by Shadow1275, 19 April 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Still don't explain Sakura. He gave up after dispel genjutsu. Yay...

And you mean to tell me no one can do elemental jutsu but Naruto?

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 19 April 2015 - 12:57 AM.

[AHK]

There is a reason for this however. The reason was because he knew that Sasuke could leave to go for Orochimaru. Kakashi specifically focused on Sasuke for this reason. He applied the heaven seal in order to protect Sasuke, but also constantly reinforced the lesson he was trying to teach Sasuke. Not to give into his vengeance and grief and to move on and make a new life for himself with Sakura and Naruto.
 
Sasuke may still go over to Orochimaru's side but he understands Kakashi's lesson and still debates what he should do. But in the end he doesn't care that its wrong and accepts the consequences.
 
Naruto was loyal to the village unlike Sasuke and wasn't looking for revenge. And Kakashi still taught him how to use shadow clones as Exp boosters and not only what his element was but which technique he should use. Then he pointed him towards Asuma for more expert advice.
 
 
Sakura was always loyal to the leaf and frankly didn't want to become anything more than Sasuke's boyfriend for most of part 1 Part 2 comes around but by then she's kind of peaked. There's nothing that Kakashi can teach her really. 
 
And before we cry favoritism let's not forget other aspects to being a teacher. Support, criticism, etc. Kakashi has that in spades taking care of both his students physical and emotional needs. examples: Telling Naruto to eat his vegetables, numerous times he's protected naruto and sakura, taking on Sakura's burden of killing Sasuke because she can't do it  etc.

And? It still doesn't change the fact that he had nothing to do with Naruto or Sakura. Look at Hiruzen, he was a kitten Hokage but at least he trained all three of his students, even with Orochimaru's nature. Kakashi failed them so that he could teach his golden child. As unfortunate as it is, Kakashi had zero impact on the actual skills of Naruto and Sakura. Had they not met Jiraiya or Tsunade, both of them would have died in part two.

[Luna]

After ten years they still believe people want to see his face? Kishi and his team must live under a rock or live in a cave. No one wants to see Kakashi's stinking face anymore besides the hardcore Kaka fans.

[Nar123]

If kittenmoto wanted to reveal Kakashi's face he should have done it in the main storyline. Hell any major fight where Kakashi took major damage to his clothing would have been fine.

 

This is nothing more then a sad gimmick.

 

Kishimoto: Because my wife makes me sleep on the couch I decided to write this! *laughs*.

 

Interviewer: Your wife... what?

 

Kishimoto: I love her. We are deeply in love you know, and I don't hold the fact that I wasn't her first against her in anyway. She wanted to know how Kakashi looked all this time but... I kept forgetting about it.. it was a red herring! *laughs*

 

Interviewer: Kakashi's face is a red herring.... in... in what regard...

 

Kishimoto: Kakashi doesn't just take it off, he makes you earn it. That's the way a real person acts, they just don't give it up like my wife did with her first boyfriend.

 

Interviewer: Give it up? Give what up...

 

Kishimoto: This story is the ultimate tale of love and adventure, and today it's time for adventure so I decided to make it about Kakashi's face! That way my wife may one day make me a sandwich when I ask her too, instead of all this "I'm not your slave" nonsense. Hinata would be thankful I asked her to make a sandwich for me.

 

Interviewer: Umm... so about Kakashi...

 

Kishimoto: It's awesome. I thought a lot about it. *laughs* He's a cross between a few of my wife's ex lovers... so she'll know that I know and I don't have any hang ups about not being her first. *laughs*

 

Interviewer: So Kakashi resembles... your wife's ex?

 

Kishimoto: Of course not! I mean I'm not insecure like that! I'm the great manga artist of all time! *laughs* No, he's a mix of multiple ex's that my wife had. I really should get a reward for not being judgmental about it, and instead sharing it positively with the rest of the world. Most guys aren't as cool about such things like I am.

 

Interviewer: I think you need some help with your mental health.....

 

Kishimoto: *laughs* Sasuke doesn't need help! He's pure. I'm pure. People just don't understand he thinks beyond good and evil. *laughs* You know he's based on my wife's first lover? And it wasn't me! *laughs*

 

Interviewer:.. And on that bombshell... ummm until next time Kishimoto.....

 

Kishimoto: It hurt me when people say I don't measure up! I'm a perfectly average length damn it!

 

Interviewer: That... isn't what they are talking about....

 

Kishimoto: *laughs* Yes this story is for the love of my life, I dedicate it to her... Hinata the perfect woman....

 

Interviewer: I'm just.. gonna leave now...

Sounds like Kishi alright

 

This is gold

 

[Shadow1275]

Still don't explain Sakura. He gave up after dispel genjutsu. Yay...

And you mean to tell me no one can do elemental jutsu but Naruto?

 

When can Sakura do any sort of elemental jutsu and when has it been mentioned that she can.

 

Better yet consider the fact that she mentions how she has storing energy inside her forehead for the past 3 years. Meaning that at the beginning of Part 2 she had already peaked.

And? It still doesn't change the fact that he had nothing to do with Naruto or Sakura. Look at Hiruzen, he was a sh*tty Hokage but at least he trained all three of his students, even with Orochimaru's nature. Kakashi failed them so that he could teach his golden child. As unfortunate as it is, Kakashi had zero impact on the actual skills of Naruto and Sakura. Had they not met Jiraiya or Tsunade, both of them would have died in part two.

Hiruzen was the same as KAkashi. The only insight we get with his training is that he trained all three with the bell test. BUT he also focused on Orochimaru because Orochimaru had incredible potential but also bc Orochimaru was sad because of his childhood. There is no real evidence that he spent equal time with Jiraiya and Tsunade at all.

 

Bolded: Oh c'mon man. in the land of waves arc he teaches them how to control chakra for example. Than later on he teaches Naruto about elemental energy, chakra form, and devises a training method WHICH NARUTO CONTINUES TO USE IN BOTH HIS TRAINING AND HUGE BATTLES. FOR EXAMPLE, HE USES THE SHADOW CLONE TRANSFERENCE TO LEARN SAGE MODE FASTER AND REFILL HIS CHAKRA AGAINST PAIN.

 

As for Sakura what could he teach her exactly? She has no elemental potential no sharingan, and apparently has less genjutsu aptitude than previously advertised. He teaches her what he can. There is nothing he can teach her

 

 

And let's not forget here that "teaching" implies more than just combat. He does a great job in getting three ppl who hated each others guts to care for each other and buy into teamwork. And he constantly supports Naruto and Sakura. Hell in 693 scumbag naruto sits around and allows Sasuke to tear into Sakura. Kakashi actually calls kitten and shoves Sakura's pain in Sasuke's face.

[TouKen4Life3g]

That's an excuse of not doing more. Or rather, start off promising but since he doesn't know what to do with her anymore, she's Tsunade 2.0 from all aspects. Look at Naruto and Sasuke. They're remixed from their parallels. So it's obvious that Kishi didn't know what to do with her. Don't forget "I forgot" or "I will make her shine" being taken as being damsel in distress. Good idea.

[Nar123]

 

When can Sakura do any sort of elemental jutsu and when has it been mentioned that she can.

 

Better yet consider the fact that she mentions how she has storing energy inside her forehead for the past 3 years. Meaning that at the beginning of Part 2 she had already peaked.

Hiruzen was the same as KAkashi. The only insight we get with his training is that he trained all three with the bell test. BUT he also focused on Orochimaru because Orochimaru had incredible potential but also bc Orochimaru was sad because of his childhood. There is no real evidence that he spent equal time with Jiraiya and Tsunade at all.

 

Bolded: Oh c'mon man. in the land of waves arc he teaches them how to control chakra for example. Than later on he teaches Naruto about elemental energy, chakra form, and devises a training method WHICH NARUTO CONTINUES TO USE IN BOTH HIS TRAINING AND HUGE BATTLES. FOR EXAMPLE, HE USES THE SHADOW CLONE TRANSFERENCE TO LEARN SAGE MODE FASTER AND REFILL HIS CHAKRA AGAINST PAIN.

 

As for Sakura what could he teach her exactly? She has no elemental potential no sharingan, and apparently has less genjutsu aptitude than previously advertised. He teaches her what he can. There is nothing he can teach her

 

 

And let's not forget here that "teaching" implies more than just combat. He does a great job in getting three ppl who hated each others guts to care for each other and buy into teamwork. And he constantly supports Naruto and Sakura. Hell in 693 scumbag naruto sits around and allows Sasuke to tear into Sakura. Kakashi actually calls bullsh** and shoves Sakura's pain in Sasuke's face.

 

Kakashi himself recognized he was a bad teacher/ sensei, he focused too much on Sasuke when he should've focused on everyone at the same time, he could have made them learn better teamwork for example, just compare how team 7 was to how team 8 and team 10 acted and behaved, all of them had knowledge of team work and focus, where team 7 would've failed on the second chuunin exam stage if not for Kabuto's help

 

Sakura's genjutsu potential is there Kakashi could've helped her with it, but no

She has ability to use elemental ninjustu, almost every ninja can. Her compatiblity is with earth and water

 

Naruto is also one who didn't receive any focus from him on part 1, only on part 2 where Kakashi helped him with the wind training

 

I read some fanfics and they show how exactly Kakashi could've worked and focused on all of his students and make them better ninjas and persons still in part 1 in a very credible manner

 

However I still say, Kakashi is still kinda of a good character, he is static? Yes but he is also badass. However he is not that good of a teacher

Edited by Nar123, 19 April 2015 - 01:32 AM.

[Shadow1275]

That's an excuse of not doing more. Or rather, start off promising but since he doesn't know what to do with her anymore, she's Tsunade 2.0 from all aspects. Look at Naruto and Sasuke. They're remixed from their parallels. So it's obvious that Kishi didn't know what to do with her. Don't forget "I forgot" or "I will make her shine" being taken as being damsel in distress. Good idea.

He doesn't promise to do anything with Sakura's genjutsu. He just says off hand that she has genjutsu potential. Though we never really see it. Anywhere.

 

But for Sakura's combat training its because she is Tsunade 2.0 that he can't do anything. It's like an engineer trying to teach engineering to a med student. There is nothing you can really teach them because A. they don't want to be engineers B. They don't have the skills for engineering.

 

Sakura's skill has always been her chakra control. KAkashi can teach her morals such as teamwork and loyalty etc. But he can't teach her what he specializes in: Elemental techniques and Sharingan techniques

 

So while Kishi did a bad job with Sakura, Imo Kakashi is still a great teacher. 

[ThroughWithLove]

That's...a bit shocking (?)

Naruto is off the list from USA manga seller after 5 weeks.

[Aizen-Sama]

I get that Hinata is Naruto's canon wife but it still irks me when fans call her Naruto's "love interest".  No, his main love interest in the series is still Sakura, a more appropriate term for Hinata would be "future wife".  She becomes his love interest AFTER the series ends.

[Nar123]

He doesn't promise to do anything with Sakura's genjutsu. He just says off hand that she has genjutsu potential. Though we never really see it. Anywhere.

 

But for Sakura's combat training its because she is Tsunade 2.0 that he can't do anything. It's like an engineer trying to teach engineering to a med student. There is nothing you can really teach them because A. they don't want to be engineers B. They don't have the skills for engineering.

 

Sakura's skill has always been her chakra control. KAkashi can teach her morals such as teamwork and loyalty etc. But he can't teach her what he specializes in: Elemental techniques and Sharingan techniques

 

So while Kishi did a bad job with Sakura, Imo Kakashi is still a great teacher. 

 

So he recognized a potential in his student and didn't even bothered to do anything because he didn't promised?

dunno looks like a bad teacher to me

 

but hey opinions are opinions

[TouKen4Life3g]

He doesn't promise to do anything with Sakura's genjutsu. He just says off hand that she has genjutsu potential. Though we never really see it. Anywhere.
 
But for Sakura's combat training its because she is Tsunade 2.0 that he can't do anything. It's like an engineer trying to teach engineering to a med student. There is nothing you can really teach them because A. they don't want to be engineers B. They don't have the skills for engineering.
 
Sakura's skill has always been her chakra control. KAkashi can teach her morals such as teamwork and loyalty etc. But he can't teach her what he specializes in: Elemental techniques and Sharingan techniques
 
So while Kishi did a bad job with Sakura, Imo Kakashi is still a great teacher. 

I was talking about Kishi, but Kakashi, eh, I'll pass him. But Hagoromo made him pushed way too much that Roman Reigns seems genuine push...

[Shadow1275]

I was talking about Kishi, but Kakashi, eh, I'll pass him. But Hagoromo made him pushed way too much that Roman Reigns seems genuine push...

oh ok. my bad

[tricksie]

So, I like Kakashi. A lot. Even with all his flaws. That's the mark of a good character — that you still like them, warts and all. 

 

It's easy to think of Kakashi focusing on Sasuke, but really, he had waaay more reason to focus on Naruto: Naruto was his sensei's son. Kakashi knows, more than anyone else in the village, that it should be him to teach him. After all, he's the only living one from Minato's team. Yet none of this every factors into his story. I blame Kishimoto for this.

 

I wish Kakashi showed more overt development over the series. He actually didn't seem to like any of his team when the series started. And according to Iruka or Hiruzen (can't remember which), Kakashi had never passed a team before. So the fact that he passed Team 7 made them different. 

 

I enjoyed seeing Kakashi change and grow to accept Naruto (there's a cute scene in Ichiraku's where he say's he is really growing to like Naruto a lot, and Naruto acts all grossed out), and I was pleased to see him take Sakura's burden. Both of those show an evolution of character. 

 

But in the end, as with everything else in the series, I was disappointed that Kakashi's story didn't have a more definitive resolution. He exhibits no pleasure in accepting the role of Kage, other than he's doing it for Obito. And there's no big acknowledgement of Sakura, Naruto or Team 7 to speak of. I suppose he stood up for Sakura when she was crying in front of Naruto, but that whole thing was such a hot mess, it doesn't feel like anything other than an in-the-moment speech. 

 

Kakashi does seem fine with letting Jiraiya teach Naruto and Tsunade teach Sakura. He was even a little competitive with Jiraiya, from the tone of their conversation after the hospital roof fight.

 

But he also doesn't seem bothered by the fact that two of his students found another 'master' instead of him, and Sasuke never saw him as such. Naruto and Sakura had masters in Jiraiya and Tsunade. But Sasuke never considered Kakashi his master. And Kakashi never seemed to expect it. I think if Sasuke ever had a master it would have been Orochimaru.

 

Anyway, like I said, I have always like Kakashi, even with all his flaws, and I just wish he had more of a defined character arc. That would have made the ending more satisfying, I guess. But like everything else in this series, the beginning doesn't match the end.

[TouKen4Life3g]

oh ok. my bad

It's ok. Sorry to forget to address Kishi.

[Codus N]

 
I think the defeat of Danzou might have been the first arc the new editor for Kishi fully worked on. If you consider the build-up till that point, how it was hinted he was involved in so many of the other antagonists reasons to hate Konoha, his end felt sort of anti-climatic. There was so much stuff he was involved in from working with Orichimaru, to keeping Hanzou in power to surpress Ami, to ordering the end of the Uchiha clan, to ordering Sai to spy on Naruto etc, this guy was built up as someone more and his end was kinda bleh, all his other actions never came up, or anything...That felt like the biggest hint that Naruto is going in a completely different direction. The fact they made it out that he did it for the betterment of Konoha never set well with me, because if he was doing all this for Konoha why did he and his Anbu all leave when Negato attacked, instead of defending the village?
 
Naruto was messed up in that sense, the only people he really ever changed were those who were turned evil due to circumstances and were good people in the first place, but were lost, he never tried to work on those that needed more work. Though if you look at his TnJ's after the pain arc and before, there was a big difference, his talks with Gaara, Pain, and Zabuza were more emotionally fuelled, and believable. His talks with Kurama and Obito never made as much sense, I still don't understand how Kurama changed his mind after one day with only one sentance from Naruto, I had thought we'd get more moments before they worked as a team but it just sort of happened, and Obito's change of heart never made sense to me.

I actually thought Kurama's was believable enough for me. Kishi had already been building up their relationship and Kurama's change of heart since Part I. And ever since Naruto defeated him, Kishi had been gradually showing more of their relationship. Not to mention Kurama isn't the kind of guy to be swayed by words, but through actions. Naruto proved that.

As for the rest, I agree.

[Swagkura]

Kakashi and Sakura really didn't interact interact until the war. They seemed more closer during the Kaguya Arc too, and no, that's not the KakaSaku shipper in me speaking, that's just me actually noticing a new development between them.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I actually thought Kurama's was believable enough for me. Kishi had already been building up their relationship and Kurama's change of heart since Part I. And ever since Naruto defeated him, Kishi had been gradually showing more of their relationship. Not to mention Kurama isn't the kind of guy to be swayed by words, but through actions. Naruto proved that.

As for the rest, I agree.

Yeah, but Naruto never thought of doing that until last arc, so it seems like it was a bit too late to make it good. That said it was alright. If Naruto really planned this, it would have come out completely believable and touching. Instead, it's just "Oh ok." Naruto only interact him few times and then he just want to change him in the end. To me, it should have have him build up as friends without really knowing like they just get along. That's my story idea but it does make it a good storytelling.

[WhyDoIWatch]

So, I like Kakashi. A lot. Even with all his flaws. That's the mark of a good character — that you still like them, warts and all. 

 

It's easy to think of Kakashi focusing on Sasuke, but really, he had waaay more reason to focus on Naruto: Naruto was his sensei's son. Kakashi knows, more than anyone else in the village, that it should be him to teach him. After all, he's the only living one from Minato's team. Yet none of this every factors into his story. I blame Kishimoto for this.

 

I wish Kakashi showed more overt development over the series. He actually didn't seem to like any of his team when the series started. And according to Iruka or Hiruzen (can't remember which), Kakashi had never passed a team before. So the fact that he passed Team 7 made them different. 

 

I enjoyed seeing Kakashi change and grow to accept Naruto (there's a cute scene in Ichiraku's where he say's he is really growing to like Naruto a lot, and Naruto acts all grossed out), and I was pleased to see him take Sakura's burden. Both of those show an evolution of character. 

 

But in the end, as with everything else in the series, I was disappointed that Kakashi's story didn't have a more definitive resolution. He exhibits no pleasure in accepting the role of Kage, other than he's doing it for Obito. And there's no big acknowledgement of Sakura, Naruto or Team 7 to speak of. I suppose he stood up for Sakura when she was crying in front of Naruto, but that whole thing was such a hot mess, it doesn't feel like anything other than an in-the-moment speech. 

 

Kakashi does seem fine with letting Jiraiya teach Naruto and Tsunade teach Sakura. He was even a little competitive with Jiraiya, from the tone of their conversation after the hospital roof fight.

 

But he also doesn't seem bothered by the fact that two of his students found another 'master' instead of him, and Sasuke never saw him as such. Naruto and Sakura had masters in Jiraiya and Tsunade. But Sasuke never considered Kakashi his master. And Kakashi never seemed to expect it. I think if Sasuke ever had a master it would have been Orochimaru.

 

Anyway, like I said, I have always like Kakashi, even with all his flaws, and I just wish he had more of a defined character arc. That would have made the ending more satisfying, I guess. But like everything else in this series, the beginning doesn't match the end.

  I agree but Kishi did give some reasons for why he didn't train Naruto
 

1) Kakashi knows Sasuke resembles him a lot.

 

2) Orochimaru was targeting Sasuke and Sasuke was slipping into darkness.

 

3) Sasuke had Sharingan.

 

4) Jiraya was going to take Naruto under him.

 

Though he doesn't have an excuse for not teaching Sakura.

 

 

 

Edited by WhyDoIWatch, 19 April 2015 - 02:23 AM.