54216 replies to this topic

[luffyq1]

Know what would be funny:

Madara comes back at full power and then get sealed immediately by TenTen.

TenTen is the reincarnation of the so6p weapons. That would explain her fetish for weapons.

[TouKen4Life3g]

TenTen is the reincarnation of the so6p weapons. That would explain her fetish for weapons.

Lol. What a twist!

[redragon88]

 

I strongly disagree with that. You can be fond of someone and not accept or like what they do. Mothers don't stop loving their children just become drug addicts for example.

 

Well, ramenanmitsu did say that it's not about what they do but about what you feel regardless of it. Despite children becoming addicts the mothers would still consider them "great" because they love them unconditionally. The mothers would still want to believe in their children's better nature.

 

Since Sakura's romantic feeling for Sasuke aren't that strong she can't believe in his better nature through it. It's only after she gets over her childhood desire to be with Sasuke that she'll truly understand him and see him in a good light, the same way Naruto does.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Any questions you like to leave for tonight's podcast, post it here now.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Okay. I know we're supposedly done discussing 540 and how it coincides with Sakura's confession, but I have to vent a few things out first.

 

I can't believe Sakura knows she loves Naruto. I can believe Sakura doesn't love Sasuke as much as she used to. I can believe she's on the brink of being with Naruto. I can't believe she has no romantic feelings for Sasuke and I can't believe if you asked Sakura right now, she would say honestly "I love Naruto and don't love Sasuke anymore." However, I do believe Sakura thinks she loves Sasuke without really knowing what she feels for Naruto. I favor this argument and I feel like the confession and 540 supported it.

 

I will only believe Sakura is aware she loves Naruto and no longer loves Sasuke if I can have answers to these questions:

 

Where was the moment of realization that Sakura realized she loves Naruto?

 

Why did Sakura think of Sasuke in 540 and felt that upset over Evil Sasuke if she doesn't still love him?

 

How can we use an interview as proof if there's no guarantee it's the official translation? How can we know what that interview said was accurate and not fan-biased?

 

Those are my questions and why I can't get on board with Jame's insistence that the confession was true about loving Naruto. If anyone wants to give a shot at answering my three questions, then please do. I'm saying this out of genuine curiosity because I really want to understand this.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 26 April 2014 - 10:20 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The name of the game is that the ball of truth is under one of these cups and we have to find it. There is only one ball and that ball has to be under one of these cups. Now Kishimoto said that Sakura was being honest so that eliminates Cup #4. So now we are down to three cups: Cup #1, Cup #2, and Cup #3. Chapter 540 comes out. Several people, and it is obvious who, keep telling me that 540 proves she still holds feelings for Sasuke and that she is still in love with him. That eliminates Cup #1. We are down to Cup #2 and #3.

Looking at 540 again, the idea is that she still holds feelings for Sasuke which means she DOES care about Sasuke. The confession has her saying two important things: 1. She is in love with Naruto. 2. She doesn't care about Sasuke. One of these statements has to be truth as Kishimoto backed this up. Since 540 is supposed to prove that she does care about Sasuke, then that means when she said "I don't care about Sasuke anymore" must be the lie. That eliminates cup #3 and means that the ball has to be under cup #2.

I'll leave a question then.
If is true that Sakura is in love with Naruto and she acknowledged that on the confession which it implies on your interpretation of Kishimoto's interview "That she was honest".
540 has no purpose to exist and Sakura's statement and thinking about Sasuke doesnt make sense since she's in love with Naruto.
Even if she cares about Sasuke, that scene should not had bought Sasuke up, she would have ended there smiling and thinking about Naruto on which Hinata did on the same chapter.

I also disagree that is meant to say that she doesnt really love Sasuke, that's not it Karin and Sakura are different persons, the fodder said the guy she loves must be a great guy, she's not doubting about her feelings neither showing that they are decreasing, the scene only showed how her feelings about Sasuke after the summit which is the purpose of the moment, she has feelings for him but however she's saddened and knows he's not a great guy, because he tried to kill her twice, the pain she bought to her and Naruto, and his treatenings about destroying konoha.


@Romancegirl.
The same, peopel says about Sakura realizing that she loves Naruto but she had many moments and even the confession where she did thought about her feelings for him and what Naruto is to her and in the end Kishi shove us with Sakura's love for Sasuke even with flashbacks being honest i dont think she will realize she's in love with him but actually is going to fall in love with him later.
I lost the amount of reality checks she received on this story so far and nothing happens in terms of realization.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 26 April 2014 - 10:28 PM.

[Otaru]

I think there is no need to argue about Sakura's feelings because what we are perceiving are Kishimoto's intentions.
 

Kishimoto's feelings have became this obvious that we feel the dissociation between what he wants us to believe, and what we perceive about his future intentions. We are starting to know him really well, after all these years, so he became predictable in a way. We've became able to feel his intentions through his story.

 

That's all.

 

If you write a story, it's impossible to hide something while developing it to make it real at the end.

At some point, the readers will guess what you try to hide.

And Kishi isn't even really trying to hide anything because all these supposedly subtle hints are here for us to think about the possibility.

 

I think it's possible that Kishimoto has never defined in his head those complex feelings for Sakura that we are all talking about. He's going his route and that's all.  Sometime, we readers really look too much deeper into things. I don't think Kishimoto ever gone this deep.

 

I really think there is no need to argue indefinitely about Sakura's confession, because it's already pretty clear and we shouldn't forget about the fact that this story IS A STORY WRITTEN BY SOMEONE THAT'S NOT PERFECT, so it can't be totally flawless. If it may looks weird and confusing, it's IMO because Kishimoto is trying to extend this to the end, and we're just no buying anymore that SasuSaku is even possible because Kishi intentions are clear to us.

 

Well, just my two cents.

Edited by Otaru, 26 April 2014 - 11:10 PM.

[shisui]

 

Well, ramenanmitsu did say that it's not about what they do but about what you feel regardless of it. Despite children becoming addicts the mothers would still consider them "great" because they love them unconditionally. The mothers would still want to believe in their children's better nature.

 

I disagree. I worked as a volunteer at a shelter and what you say was rarely the case.

[Inferno180]

The one thing I seriously just seriously am ashamed of though is, just the hate for Sakura has gotten so high, its downright embarrassing, I mean people can like and dislike who they want but the sheer hate at her has been grounded so much, its insane in its own right.

 

I mean the current situation, we have people going "kill Sakura, Kill sakura" and while I'm relieved to know that its most likely not going to happen, that she will most likely live. Its just, well, embarrassing, I mean what the hell did kishi do in his writing to generate so much hate? Is the western audience just that stupid? Why do people make such a big deal about her when there are hundreds and I mean hundreds of other tsundere heroines and they dont even give a kitten about those same attributes, convections, and so on. Why does sakura need to be an exception or an example? This isn't even pairing related, its just one of the bigger mysteries, its like these are the same fans that, though not nessessairly pairing fans, fans that like other female characters, but they otherwise do less and end up bumbling up more at times or is it because its a shonuen, the simplest way to define useful is just by fighting?

 

This still makes me ashamed in part as a naruto fan, such an unreasonable amount of illogical hate, I mean its not like hinata does anything "useful" by these same terms yet people are sucking up to her, able to be wowed if she picked her nose and she doesnt do much in the series at all. Part of me wants NS to come just to grind these people into such hate that its almost deserving upon them. I mean if you are going to hate someone, find a good reason rather than criticze each and every little aspect just about what the character does I mean it was silly at first but now its downright stupid. But I'm not suprised, in a series where most fans react to the stupidest things and rush in without even looking past the dialogue or reason in the portrayl of certain actions, they are labeled useless or stupid. Sasuke has been a huge jackass yet people suck up to him, Kakashi made many mistakes in the series yet no one goes on him, gaara was bad in his own right yet people moved on. No one made an issue with Itachi just going on his trip of "I see now I could have done it another way" no one made an issue with tsunade beating the crap out of jiraya, no one made an issue out of Obito. Yet Sakura, for all the stuff she does to help people:

 

-She is concerned for naruto yet people yell at her

-She follows the medic rules but people yell at her

-She is made to portray human weakness at first but this includes emotion and well, people just forget this and call her useless

-She helped heal the poster child hinata yet no one gave a crap about that

-She in part, saved naruto and people didnt care

-She couldnt kill sasuke because she is human yet people yelled at her

-she lied to protect naruto yet people called her all sorts of redicuolus things.

 

Really I've gained a hate for the illogical hate on her, I mean I don't have an issue if people simply dislike her, I hate it when they make these stupid reasons and just plain go on without applying the same judgement to any others. And its at that part, any moment we see something with a character in danger, we see like the tree before, people hoping sakura died. Its just sickening, seriously, I know people want certain characters to die in series known for giving character deaths like game of thrones or the walking dead, otherwise when you can choose who lives and dies, but in a series like this, its just sickening, people want death on a character that isn't even portrayed as the way they interpret her too? Is she some kind of criminal or wrong doer? What happened to the aspect of just a rational audience, jesus christ no one got angry at freaking voldemort or sauron in the movies with all the crap they pulled. I only made this post because I read something so foul about what a few fans hoped happened next chapter, it was just, dear god, I didnt know weather to be sick or amazed if this is really how people think, if this is really how people act towards a fictional character. I mean I know people that got enraged at other players in videogames, but the point of something like what these people said, saying she should get hit in the head and die, that madara should blast her into giblets, its just, oh dear god. I just cannot go on. I just want people to know, this is not even the pairing stuff, this is just from a good portion of the western fandom. If its really like this at its worse, I have to say Im not suprised my country is lagging in important education areas. If people really only go by what they want to see rather than what the author's view is, its just something is very very wrong.

 

I mean if any fan asked something bad about sakura, I can bet anyone my life savings that kishi's response to the hate or some fans view would differ much more, not like they said. even when he responded to the land of iron events and said that he was told she wasnt heroinsh, well he gave her more of a role and people still are not pleased, they will never be pleased at this point. The only thing fans like me, who actually like sakura for how kishi tried to portray her in his best way, is that we have the confidence that what they say is not the real deal, that there are qualities she has that make her a good character. Because its easier to bash and hate something than to actually understand and learn to like it, its always easier to hate and find a way to focus on the negative side of something, never the positive, its easier to ignore and disregard than to accept and identify with. I feel confident sakura will live given other reasons I said before, but part of me just wants to see haters dissapointed again and then ultimately pissed off from NS coming, its almost like they deserve to be angry and dissatisfied at this point.

Edited by Inferno180, 27 April 2014 - 12:12 AM.

[redragon88]

 

I disagree. I worked as a volunteer at a shelter and what you say was rarely the case.

 

I wasn't really trying to talk about what's real or not. It was just an example about how the author idealizes a concept for the sake of a story.

 

Remember that the beauty of fiction is to take some creative liberties with what happens in real life.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think there is no need to argue about Sakura's feelings because what we are perceiving are Kishimoto's intentions.
 
Kishimoto's feelings have became this obvious that we feel the dissociation between what he wants us to believe, and what we perceive about his future intentions. We are starting to know him really well, after all these years, so he became predictable in a way. We've became able to feel his intentions through his story.
 
That's all.
 
If you write a story, it's impossible to hide something while developing it to make it real at the end.
At some point, the readers will guess what you try to hide.
And Kishi isn't even really trying to hide anything because all these supposedly subtle hints are here for us to think about the possibility.
 
I think it's possible that Kishimoto has never defined in his head those complex feelings for Sakura that we are all talking about. He's going his route and that's all.  Sometime, we readers really look too much deeper into things. I don't think Kishimoto ever gone this deep.
 
I really think there is no need to argue indefinitely about Sakura's confession, because it's already pretty clear and we shouldn't forget about the fact that this story IS A STORY WRITTEN BY SOMEONE THAT'S NOT PERFECT, so it can't be totally flawless. If it may looks weird and confusing, it's IMO because Kishimoto is trying to extend this to the end, and we're just no buying anymore that SasuSaku is even possible because Kishi intentions are clear to us.
 
Well, just my two cents.

Okay.

In my opinion.
Sakura doesnt have complex feelings the problem with her character is that her love for Sasuke doesnt have a reason to exist and Kishi needs to keep it up to maintain the pairing drama.
The manga portrays Sakura's feelings for Sasuke as strong which is shown countless of times thoughout part 1 and 2 and yet the only meaningfull moments are the "thank yoU" and her smilling on the background, other shounens often make the said guy to support the girl for a period of time, we dont see this with SS, Sasuke didnt interacted much with her and when they have he makes sure to keep a distance from her.
Her feelings for Sasuke are based on a crush and are shallow, but Kishimoto portrays it as strong and genuine.

The only reason why people are debating this confession over and over again, is just the fact that some are trying hard to prove that she was honest when she said "i love you" to Naruto despite a few chapters forward she confirms she loves Sasuke.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 27 April 2014 - 01:06 AM.

[Gravenimage]

Wow Inferno your Sakura rant was EPIC!

[咲耶姫]

You know, i just realized something. NH fans often say that NS won't happen because NS missed to many opportunities  in which Sakura could have realized her feelings for Naruto or even for a pairing development. But if you look at it, NH missed as many opportunities and even more, since at least NS has the development of Sakura's feelings for Naruto. But on the NH side, we have never seen Naruto's feelings growing up for Hinata, he never thought about it or they were never mention like Sakura's feelings were brought up during her confession or during the 4 tail accident. 

And they say NS has missed too may opportunities, they don't count the fact that Naruto could have realized his feelings for Hinata on many occasions like Hinata's confession, when he saved her against white zetsu, during the hand holding, or even off screen, and if he really had feelings for her or loved her over Sakura as some NH fans say, then he wouldn' have say Sakura was "more or less" his girlfriend. 631 was the perfect occasion for Kishimoto to end this pairing war, and that's what he did to me, if NH was meant to happen, this scene would have been a perfect occasion to show that Naruto was in love with Hinata, by making him answer that Sakura was not his girlfriend and that he already loved someone else to his father. But that's not what happened, he still loves Sakura and considering that Sakura is the only chracater with a development concerning her feelings, NS will happen.  

[Gravenimage]

Two words" double standard".

[Inferno180]

You know, i just realized something. NH fans often say that NS won't happen because NS missed to many opportunities  in which Sakura could have realized her feelings for Naruto or even for a pairing development. But if you look at it, NH missed as many opportunities and even more, since at least NS has the development of Sakura's feelings for Naruto. But on the NH side, we have never seen Naruto's feelings growing up for Hinata, he never thought about it or they were never mention like Sakura's feelings were brought up during her confession or during the 4 tail accident. 

And they say NS has missed too may opportunities, they don't count the fact that Naruto could have realized his feelings for Hinata on many occasions like Hinata's confession, when he saved her against white zetsu, during the hand holding, or even off screen, and if he really had feelings for her or loved her over Sakura as some NH fans say, then he wouldn' have say Sakura was "more or less" his girlfriend. 631 was the perfect occasion for Kishimoto to end this pairing war, and that's what he did to me, if NH was meant to happen, this scene would have been a perfect occasion to show that Naruto was in love with Hinata, by making him answer that Sakura was not his girlfriend and that he already loved someone else to his father. But that's not what happened, he still loves Sakura and considering that Sakura is the only chracater with a development concerning her feelings, NS will happen.  

 

This is always my main argument against NH, they always say crap as "well she didn't realize her feelings then" we can easily say, "then she will realize her feelings later" generally, this is the crap fest argument they put out for years always ignoring the fact of "well genius, it cannot occur yet, its part of a long gradual character development, otherwise NH would be killed faster than neji was"

 

They can say sakura missed opportunities of "realizing her feelings" but they don't realize well, NH moments are not occurring at all.

 

I mean love or not, NS moments actually happen, much more often than NH, any fan even not pairing wise can see more scenes of naruto and sakura than naruto and hinata. Even then there are scenes of focus and drama moreso on naruto and sakura that even ride along with aspects of NS, I mean didn't sai's whole revelation and the land of iron actually ride on the NS stuff? They can make a case out of 615, but its still stuck in a ditch on the romance side they claim. But nope, sakura caring for naruto and his dream cannot possibly entail anything else while hinata still chanting naruto naruto naruto and nothing else is a sign of pure love.

[Hanabi]

The one thing I seriously just seriously am ashamed of though is, just the hate for Sakura has gotten so high, its downright embarrassing, I mean people can like and dislike who they want but the sheer hate at her has been grounded so much, its insane in its own right.

 

I mean the current situation, we have people going "kill Sakura, Kill sakura" and while I'm relieved to know that its most likely not going to happen, that she will most likely live. Its just, well, embarrassing, I mean what the hell did kishi do in his writing to generate so much hate? Is the western audience just that stupid? Why do people make such a big deal about her when there are hundreds and I mean hundreds of other tsundere heroines and they dont even give a kitten about those same attributes, convections, and so on. Why does sakura need to be an exception or an example? This isn't even pairing related, its just one of the bigger mysteries, its like these are the same fans that, though not nessessairly pairing fans, fans that like other female characters, but they otherwise do less and end up bumbling up more at times or is it because its a shonuen, the simplest way to define useful is just by fighting?

actually, kishi meant to do that. i read a interview where he said something like ' i wonder what would happen if i made a unlikable character '

 

and another interview which is more widespread, something like ' sakura is made to be a annoying but good hearted girl, because she cannot understand men '

[narusaku256]

actually, kishi meant to do that. i read a interview where he said something like ' i wonder what would happen if i made a unlikable character '
 
and another interview which is more widespread, something like ' sakura is made to be a annoying but good hearted girl, because she cannot understand men '

Part 1 Sakura maybe annoying, but one does not simply hate part 2 Sakura. I don't know in what sense she is annoying, but regardless of how she is, I like her. I understand what I like maybe the others will dislike. But seriously, part 1 Sakura being annoying I can understand, but part 2? A straight NO from me. She is just....too good. Maybe people don't like her because she is tsundere, but that's what I like about her. I agree with the other part she does not understand men XD, much like Naruto who does not understand women XD. Part 2 Sakura is the girl worth fighting for. Darn! I am starting to envy Naruto XD. Jokes apart, part 2 Sakura is really amazing, but that's just my opinion on her, people can like as well as dislike her, its their definition on how they judge her.

[TouKen4Life3g]

To me, the biggest missed opportunity for NH is 450. Seriously, that was the best chance ever and yet, you blew it. To me, that just tell me that NH is just in an enlightenment circle.

[Inferno180]

Part 1 Sakura maybe annoying, but one does not simply hate part 2 Sakura. I don't know in what sense she is annoying, but regardless of how she is, I like her. I understand what I like maybe the others will dislike. But seriously, part 1 Sakura being annoying I can understand, but part 2? A straight NO from me. She is just....too good. Maybe people don't like her because she is tsundere, but that's what I like about her. I agree with the other part she does not understand men XD, much like Naruto who does not understand women XD. Part 2 Sakura is the girl worth fighting for. Darn! I am starting to envy Naruto XD. Jokes apart, part 2 Sakura is really amazing, but that's just my opinion on her, people can like as well as dislike her, its their definition on how they judge her.

 

I'd really say sakura's development in part 1 was figuring out what she had to do as a ninja, her role in part 1 was to address her weakness and find how to better herself and well thats what happened.

[Gojira]

If the mere thought of someone proves that she loves someone, then what does that make chapter 573 when she thought about Naruto saying "But no matter what you say, we'll going to be together?"

I'm not really seeing the connection her considering that her thoughts in 573 was referencing the fact that Naruto fights alone.


Also here's something I just thought of, do people in the narutoverse actually get married or do they just remain couples? I don't really recall anyone saying Minato and Kushina were husband and wife or that Asuma and Kureani were, or.....I guess those are the only couples that come to mind.

Edited by Pepsi, 27 April 2014 - 03:14 PM.