54216 replies to this topic

[Inferno180]

Alright, so I had a train of thought. One that may settle all arguments and let everyone both be right and wrong at the same time. One last time I am going to bring up 540, but not to decipher what the meaning of the scene was or interpretations, but rather a train of thought that occurred.

Going back to Sakura's confession we are told that Sakura lied. About what has been a debate for a while, but never really had solid proof on what she lied about. I think I found a way to prove it: 540. Not only is this scene anti-SS, but I feel also proves that without a doubt that Sakura is really in loves Naruto.

In a Kishimoto interview that has been brought up many times, he has said that at that moment Sakura was being "an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn personality." So to Kishi, she was being honest about something. Now as obvious it was to us that what she was lying about was her "letting go" of Sasuke, there really was no manga proof this is was it...or was there?

540 comes along and she thinks about Sasuke, albeit in a dark tone. People would say that it means she still has feelings for Sasuke. Maybe, but it doesn't mean she still is in love with the guy. It could be a form of her falling out of love with him which is a possibility and coincides with her confession to Naruto. See, if 540 proves that she still retains feelings for Sasuke, then that means that what she said about Sasuke was the lie and thus when she confessed her love to Naruto it was the truth.

Now here is the real kicker. The biggest part of this. If her confession to Naruto proves that she loves him and 540 proves that she still has feelings for Sasuke, but show darker thoughts then it just means even more that NS is still going up while SS is going down. Alone these two scenes could mean anything, but together they prove without a doubt that many things have changed and they still are changing.

To answer a possible question of whether or not Sakura still feels that darkness from Sasuke that she did in 540 or whether she actually doesn't think that anymore...look no farther than when Sai asked her if she trusts him. She gave that fake smile which again only proves that she 540 is meant to be anti-SS and her really moving on from him.

In the words of Ace Ventura

 

In all respect the land of iron confession scene was left ambiguous at the time, Naruto had neither spoke with sakura about it or went to talk to hinata about the confession.

 

Until 631 came, there was no proof of naruto being over sakura and otherwise him moving onto hinata. While 631 basically gives more credibility to him still loving sakura, the only clue at the time was that there would be an end pairing from what kushina said and given the likeness at the time, it was no suprise we were right about sakura being like kushina.

 

But aside from this the only clues here and there were a filler saying naruto still loved sakura and RtN otherwise though non-canon there was no other material for anyside to think which has a clue of what came up.

 

The one thing that as usual, makes the argument for NS in 469 not dying is because kishi commented on it, its almost like a blessing too. Obviously at the time, no info could be given exactly what she exactly felt for either one but yeah when 540 came out, the answer was simple, She is antagonized by sasuke, she is saddened by what he became, its not good or ideal, its just bad. 635 made it clear she has a negative view of him.

 

Its also true that despite the naysayers, NS has been given some scenery in the past year and till now. I mean opportunities existed for NH but it was bypassed, SS just shows more antagonism. The whole deal though is, because it cannot be brought out suddenly or occur believably, if kishi is going NS then he has to make these elements move towards the right time for well Naruto and Sakura to get together. Something on sakuras end is well, realizing love, getting over sasuke, etc. Maturing is part of her role if anything. Its like until the time comes, kishi has to keep showing the readers that sakura is slowly chipping away her old ideal love for sasuke and possibly moving to naruto.

 

Otherwise kishi could have just said Sakura loves Naruto and spoiled a fair portion of the future plot he would have been going on. But hey this is the same fandom that didn't believe obito was tobi for years, even though in right it started as an non-credible conjecture, it gained credibility as the series moved on, I mean for a time, people though Danzo was tobi or like a shade of him. This is the same fandom with its pairing portion that has a majority of them saying its impossible for sakura to ever love naruto.

[Silent Storm]

(Long post incoming).

 

Hello.

 

As it stands now, I believe NaruSaku is looking like the pairing that will happen.

 

Why NaruHina still has any viability as a serious contender at this point in the story is beyond me. SasuSaku as well. Atleast that had more viability during part 1 due to them spending time together as teammates, but even after showing affection, the acknowledgement and then swift rejection was the deathblow for me.

 

Before I begin, I'll introduce myself. My name is SIlent Storm and I've been a fan of Naruo since 2006 and have mainly lurked this forum. I came to know of the series by watching the anime and I have been following it since then. I've also lurked this forum since 2006 and seen many discussions take place here.

 

Granted Part 1 was mostly one-sided, I still believed NaruSaku as a pairing had more viability than NaruHina and SasuSaku. Early on, Kishimoto established Naruto's love interest and has since remained consistent on who he is attracted to the most, never providing much (or any indication) that he would get over his feelings for Sakura and try pursuing another girl. Really Part 1 was the best time (or atleast lay the foundation) for this to take place, but it didn't.

 

NaruHina isn't viable because she and Naruto haven't shared much screentime together in comparison to him and Sakura to make it viable / believable, and the little screentime they shared, Kishi never attempted to develop their relationship past that of comrades / friends. Every chance he had of developing it was missed, and at this point in the story, the likelyhood he would drop Sakura (especially after she kept him alive, and yeah, he will find) is extremely low. I'd even go as far to say it won't happen at all but stranger things have happened.

 

Despite confessing to him, Naruto has not acknowledged the confession, only he has acknowledged her jumping in and trying to save him (which could have backfired horribly had Minato not placed failsafes but I digress). The end of the pain arc was the perfect time for Naruto to address that confession, rather he flat out ignored her. Her, instead of Sakura embracing him when he returned to the village was also perfect time to push the focus away from Sakura and towards Hinata, but Kishi instead had Sakura embrace him (with everyone in the village, even Hinata watching). Then there is when Neji died. Granted I consider this a NaruHina moment, it's still nothing in comparison to the amount of development NaruSaku received during part 2 and too little, too late.

 

Then there is SasuSaku. Of the two pairings, this one posed the biggest "threat", as unlike NaruHina, Sasuke and Sakura spent a significant amount of time together considering them were teammates. The likely scenario that could have happened was Sasuke would slowly warm to Sakura and show signs of affection (such as smiling at her from time to time and acknowledging her a bit more), however that never happened. Hell, he showed no emotion towards her when he woke up from his ravaging from Itachi. Like NaruHina, any scenarios he could have used to develop their relationship past comrade / friendship was wasted.

 

Part 2 was even more damaging for the pairing. Atleast with NaruHina the foundation for something more than just friendship remained intact, but with SasuSaku, the foundation continuously crumbled, to the point where I believe this pairing is even more unviable than NaruHina right. Sasuke has made repeated attempts to end Sakura's life, and not once has he apologised or showed any remorse for the attempts at her life. Even after seeing her again after the kage summit incident, he didn't apologise. He did to Karin though.

 

Kishimoto has made it a point to parallel the younger generation with the old. One of the themes of his story is the younger generation surpassing the previous. Taking this into account, NaruSaku has the highest chance of happening. Jiraiya and Obito both failed at getting the girls they wanted. If one of the themes is succeeding where they failed, then Naruto will succeed in getting the girl he loves, that girl being Sakura, not Hinata.

 

Then there is the Kushina / Sakura parallel. Anyone trying to parallel her with Hinata needs to pay more attention to the manga. Not only are their personalilties similar, they both had aspects of their physical appearance they hated. Then there is Kushina's dying words to Naruto, to find a girl like her and not to pick the weird one. Hinata was established as a weird girl (by Naruto even) early in the manga. People often turn to the Viz translation for that scene, but to me, the first girl "coming your way" meant the first girl ever showing any attraction to. Regardless of the meaning behind that part, chapter 631 pretty much confirmed that Sakura and Kushina are similar in character (by Kushina's husband, Minato). You can't make the argument that Hinata is more like Kushina after what Minato said.

 

Throughout the manga, Kishi has developed Naruto and Sakura's relationship, more than NaruHina and SasuSaku. Like Kushina and Minato, Sakura has gone from thinking Naruto is a nuiscene to caring deeply for his well being and all round being fond of him (whether she loves him completely or not is still a mystery, but I believe we'll get our answer this year) Shortly after that moment they shared during the 4th Ninja War, Kishi decided to have Minato ask Sakura if she was Naruto girlfriend, and even though Naruto's answer was in jest, the simple fact that the scene happened (with Hinata not being far) says a lot about the viability of NaruHina and SasuSaku. He then had Hinata try and go to Naruto in his darkest hour, only to fall and lose all her energy. What he's done there is show that Hinata is not the right girl to be beside him, Sakura is. He could have easily had her reach him and ask to tag along and have her perform the CPR scene, but he didn't.

 

Sasuke has been a constant negative person on Sakura's character. In each scene they share, he's either shown no affection or has done something to deeply hurt her. After showing so much affection towards him, he has not reciprocated her feelings. It's too little too late for that now. Once he left the village, her character took a turn for the better. If he was still around, she would have sucked as a ninja and likely wouldn't have been a medic. Him not being around did her good.

 

Neither girls really knew the guys they "loved" anyways. Hinata's love is more admiration for Naruto's deterimination, but she doesn't really understand him or know his history / pain (till recently but that doesn't matter now). She doesn't even know about the tailed beast extraction killing the host. Sakura's love for Sasuke, for the most part, has been shallow. While one can argue it developed into something deeper, you must conceed that she too, never really understood the pain he went through, nor did she really try to, only Naruto understands because he's been there. Sakura doesn't even trust Sasuke, something Sai confirmed.

 

A tl;dr for this entire post can be summed up like this: the previous generation will be surpassed by the next, Kushina asked Naruto not to pick the weird girl, but find someone like her, both her and Sakura have a shared history of insecurity, Hinata was established as the weird girl, Minato asked Sakura if she was Naruto's girlfriend and also made the comparison between her and Kushina and Sakura was with Naruto in his darkest hour. No other pairings matter and this seems like the endgame pairing out of the big three. Naruto will not abandon Sakura, it'd go against his character and make years of development pointless.

 

Thanks for reading my post. This is my first time really commenting on NaruSaku so it might be sloppy (I find it hard expressing myself.). I am by no means smart when it comes to this stuff but I just wanted to get my opinion out there.

Edited by Silent Storm, 26 April 2014 - 01:25 AM.

[luffyq1]

You guys still want that NS/SK cover?

 

 

lol 

[Nostradamus]

@luffyq1 Absolutely beautiful.     

[Gojira]

Alright, so I had a train of thought. One that may settle all arguments and let everyone both be right and wrong at the same time. One last time I am going to bring up 540, but not to decipher what the meaning of the scene was or interpretations, but rather a train of thought that occurred.

Going back to Sakura's confession we are told that Sakura lied. About what has been a debate for a while, but never really had solid proof on what she lied about. I think I found a way to prove it: 540. Not only is this scene anti-SS, but I feel also proves that without a doubt that Sakura is really in love with Naruto.

In a Kishimoto interview that has been brought up many times, he has said that at that moment Sakura was being "an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn personality." So to Kishi, she was being honest about something. Now as obvious it was to us that what she was lying about was her "letting go" of Sasuke, there really was no manga proof this is was it...or was there?

540 comes along and she thinks about Sasuke, albeit in a dark tone. People would say that it means she still has feelings for Sasuke. Maybe, but it doesn't mean she still is in love with the guy. It could be a form of her falling out of love with him which is a possibility and coincides with her confession to Naruto. See, if 540 proves that she still retains feelings for Sasuke, then that means that what she said about Sasuke was the lie and thus when she confessed her love to Naruto it was the truth.

Now here is the real kicker. The biggest part of this. If her confession to Naruto proves that she loves him and 540 proves that she still has feelings for Sasuke, but show darker thoughts then it just means even more that NS is still going up while SS is going down. Alone these two scenes could mean anything, but together they prove without a doubt that many things have changed and they still are changing.

To answer a possible question of whether or not Sakura still feels that darkness from Sasuke that she did in 540 or whether she actually doesn't think that anymore...look no farther than when Sai asked her if she trusts him. She gave that fake smile which again only proves that she 540 is meant to be anti-SS and her really moving on from him.

In the words of Ace Ventura

Its not her still having feelings for Sasuke that's the problem its the fact that he was "the someone else" she was referring to despite the fact that her confession for Naruto was real and this was right after Sasuke attempted to murder her atleast 2 times

Its not so much her still having feelings for Sasuke but the fact that she was thinking of him onstead of the man she confessed to and has saved her life. It just kind of leaves a bad aftertaste because it gives a feeling that between naruto and Sasuke she would still prefer to be with Sasuke over Naruto. This following Kishi's statement that she was honest about her saying she loved Naruto and apparently some rumors going around that the interview was mistranslated or some kitten just makes it all the more confusing.

[Tokura Misaki]

You guys still want that NS/SK cover?

 

 

lol 

 

That was made by a NS hater to mock. K dot.

[luffyq1]

 

That was made by a NS hater to mock. K dot.

I know and I still find it funny.

[LadyGT]

You have to admit it's pretty funny.

[Gojira]

Well there's atleast something for the LeexKarin fandom (if it exists)

it shows what their....son?....daughter?...kid would look like

[James S Cassidy]

 

In all respect the land of iron confession scene was left ambiguous at the time, Naruto had neither spoke with sakura about it or went to talk to hinata about the confession.

 

Its not her still having feelings for Sasuke that's the problem its the fact that he was "the someone else" she was referring to despite the fact that her confession for Naruto was real and this was right after Sasuke attempted to murder her atleast 2 times

 

So I guess I am still not clear enough. I read both of your posts, but I still feel the message I was making was not clear. Hmmm...not sure how to make it clear enough....

Okay, let me try it this way:

Some people believed that 540 automatically makes the confession false and that Sakura was lying. Some people still believe that to this day. What if 540 is not proof that she was lying, but proof that she was telling the truth?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 April 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Gravenimage]

Mock us??? When I watched that cover I laughed my a** off seriously. Instead of angering our fandom they only made us laugh. We're not like the NH fandom when they saw the volume 64 cover they immediately screamed canon NH is going to happen. We don't need a cover the mang speaks for itself in higher volumes than one single cover.

[Inferno180]

 

 

So I guess I am still not clear enough. I read both of your posts, but I still feel the message I was making was not clear. Hmmm...not sure how to make it clear enough....

Okay, let me try it this way:

Some people believed that 540 automatically makes the confession false and that Sakura was lying. Some people still believe that to this day. What if 540 is not proof that she was lying, but proof that she was telling the truth?

 

If thats the case then its just the same situation as 631, things are otherwise obvious but people don't realize it or believe it to be so. The deal with 540 though, its easier to just see that Sakura is saddened by what he became, its rather an anti-SS event and its negative by all accounts. If she was telling the truth at the time then it would be otherwise well, she never got to address the stuff to naruto herself. But its the current events I'd say that rather leave a better impression on her moving towards naruto because of the focus and scenes we got with her to him.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

So I guess I am still not clear enough. I read both of your posts, but I still feel the message I was making was not clear. Hmmm...not sure how to make it clear enough....

Okay, let me try it this way:

Some people believed that 540 automatically makes the confession false and that Sakura was lying. Some people still believe that to this day. What if 540 is not proof that she was lying, but proof that she was telling the truth?

It's not 540 that states her confession a lie but after the confession when she's going to kill him, Kishimoto shows that she loves Sasuke and 540 despite being anti-SS moment shows that she still connects romantic feelings with Sasuke despite being saddened by what he had become and/or not trusting him like 632 i think, future chapters wont show that her confession is true because her confession happened on the last arc and on that she was in love with Sasuke which was shown with flashbacks and her statements.

Also 540 is no proof that she was telling the truth because it's Sasuke the one she was refering to, also Sakura lied many times to Naruto in order to potect him, why the confession cant be different? She seemd so resolved about her feelings during that moment then why she still has feelings for Sasuke?, wasnt she over him because she said he only made her suffer? Why she connected romantic feelings with Sasuke? Cant take the confession as true and honest sorry.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 26 April 2014 - 12:08 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I do wonder what Madara will do next. Is he seriously just gonna crawl there?

Madara: Damn! The target didn't get hit. But I can still get the eye!
*Starts crawling*
Just...give me a minute. Beware!

[shisui]

The voice appearing is a foreshadow. It's common that a lesser of two evil apply at the end when you least expected or rather should have. I remember a game heavily focused on one big baddie and when he got defeated, the "sidekick" turns out to be the final villain since it was only a weak state until it got the power back, and it was from the history book of war. So in other words, say Kaguya takes over, Naruto will be the one pointing out that it's the old man's mother and he knows that she's powerful of them all and probably think he and Sasuke are going to be in deep trouble.

So I don't know. I wouldn't call it that. Funny because Obito was never defeated in a beatdown way, so what happen if Madara does lose in a beatdown with the tree inside of him. Not to mention, Obito was controlled once, but why not Madara. Especially since he became a Jinchuuriki while the tree was still outside. I don't know but I will wait and see. Maybe the voice is a good guy and just trolling Madara. Who knows.

 

I understand your view. But the Kaguya voice moment happened two weeks ago. Madara's statue appeared all the way back in part 1. Madara has more steam behind him on foreshadowing him being the big bad and so does Orochimaru.

 

I also said I know it's a common trope and that it can be happen, but I still say it's not good writing. Recycling plot elements Madara controlling Obito by making someone else control him is also not good writing.

 

 

Thinking of a question..

 

How would you feel if Naruto only went for Sakura for looks?

 

That's what he went for as a 12 year old, but he's older now.

 

 

It's not 540 that states her confession a lie but after the confession when she's going to kill him, Kishimoto shows that she loves Sasuke and 540 despite being anti-SS moment shows that she still connects romantic feelings with Sasuke despite being saddened by what he had become and/or not trusting him like 632 i think, future chapters wont show that her confession is true because her confession happened on the last arc and on that she was in love with Sasuke which was shown with flashbacks and her statements.

Also 540 is no proof that she was telling the truth because it's Sasuke the one she was refering to, also Sakura lied many times to Naruto in order to potect him, why the confession cant be different? She seemd so resolved about her feelings during that moment then why she still has feelings for Sasuke?, wasnt she over him because she said he only made her suffer? Why she connected romantic feelings with Sasuke? Cant take the confession as true and honest sorry.

 

I agree with this. Sakura's words are honest when she confessed. She thinks Naruto became a great guy and that Sasuke became a bad guy. That has nothing to do with the type of feelings she has for each at the time however, and that's why Naruto said she was lying to herself.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, we'll see. Ever since we find out that Kaguya did become dark as time goes by, it could go that route. It happens to many games, manga, anime, and pretty much anywhere. If Obito being controlled for a moment back when he became Jinchuuriki is an indication, I can't really fault it as bad writing. Just another greater of two evil. We'll see. To each of their own.

As for the question I asked, yes, I get it about part 1, but if it's still the same in here, that would be displeasing. It's like "Really? You still going by the looks? And you only change your mind because she looks prettier than ever if not first time." I don't know, it's baffled to me to hear "What else is there" when asked what do you see in a woman. Sounds...sexist.

[narusaku256]

What I posted in the other forum, I'll post it here too. Can't Obito just use that almighty push, since he has one rinnegan? It won't be an asspull since we have seen Nagato use it. Madara is not even complete now, I won't say Obito can harm him but atleast he can startle him buying them some time, and all the more he can also push Sakura as well as the rod so that Madara and Obito can settle their scores.

[Gojira]

So I guess I am still not clear enough. I read both of your posts, but I still feel the message I was making was not clear. Hmmm...not sure how to make it clear enough....

Okay, let me try it this way:

Some people believed that 540 automatically makes the confession false and that Sakura was lying. Some people still believe that to this day. What if 540 is not proof that she was lying, but proof that she was telling the truth?

Can you elaborate on that? Again my problem with 540 is that when it comes to romance she immeditaley refers to Sasuke as "the someone else" and yet not the man she gave an honest confession to. If it was honest it gives the impression that she would still prefer to be with Sasuke because she's still in love with him (as elaborated upon by Sai, Karin and Naruto)
 
 

It's not 540 that states her confession a lie but after the confession when she's going to kill him, Kishimoto shows that she loves Sasuke and 540 despite being anti-SS moment shows that she still connects romantic feelings with Sasuke despite being saddened by what he had become and/or not trusting him like 632 i think, future chapters wont show that her confession is true because her confession happened on the last arc and on that she was in love with Sasuke which was shown with flashbacks and her statements.

Also 540 is no proof that she was telling the truth because it's Sasuke the one she was refering to, also Sakura lied many times to Naruto in order to potect him, why the confession cant be different? She seemd so resolved about her feelings during that moment then why she still has feelings for Sasuke?, wasnt she over him because she said he only made her suffer? Why she connected romantic feelings with Sasuke? Cant take the confession as true and honest sorry.

if we go by Mangapanda's translation its left slightly ambiguous fodder nin says "if its somebody you love they must be a great person" not exactly referring to the one she was talking about and unintentionally makes her feel regret for loving Sasuke. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the correct context of that chapter even if a lot of people misinterpret it as her still loving Sasuke over Naruto it wouldn't be any different then people misinterpreting what happened in the land of iron arc.
 
 

I do wonder what Madara will do next. Is he seriously just gonna crawl there?

Madara: Damn! The target didn't get hit. But I can still get the eye!
*Starts crawling*
Just...give me a minute. Beware!

More likely he'll just be levitating like Frieza was.

What I posted in the other forum, I'll post it here too. Can't Obito just use that almighty push, since he has one rinnegan? It won't be an asspull since we have seen Nagato use it. Madara is not even complete now, I won't say Obito can harm him but atleast he can startle him buying them some time, and all the more he can also push Sakura as well as the rod so that Madara and Obito can settle their scores.

Problem is Obito's half dead he's likely using the remaining strength he has to fight of BZ temporarily and not collapse on the ground let alone try to repel an attack from Juubidara.

Edited by Pepsi, 26 April 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't even know if he can do one since he seems noob at it. Or more like he only use his right eye since it's his and well, Obito seems more like a guy who does more spiritual aspect than power aspect. It's ironic that his staff has the full moon/sun one.

@Pepsi: That works too.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 26 April 2014 - 02:16 PM.

[咲耶姫]

 

if we go by Mangapanda's translation its left slightly ambiguous fodder nin says "if its somebody you love they must be a great person" not exactly referring to the one she was talking about and unintentionally makes her feel regret for loving Sasuke. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the correct context of that chapter even if a lot of people misinterpret it as her still loving Sasuke over Naruto it wouldn't be any different then people misinterpreting what happened in the land of iron arc.
 

I already gave you the proper translation many times, it is "The person you love must surely be a good person." And to me there is no difference between the 2 translations, no one is more ambiguous than the other one. The two translations refers to the guy Sakura was talking about on the previous chapter when she said "I already have someone." And the fact that she's thinking sadly about Sasuke after he said that proves that she was talking about Sasuke when she said she already had someone. In my opinion, Naruto has nothing to do with this scene, it's only focused on Sakura and her decreasing feelings for Sasuke.