54216 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

How is that voice a mystery? It was Kaguya.

That's not the point. Even if you find out, did the story find out? Well more like is it revealed yet. Think as Tobi. Many of us thought Obito but the story hasn't revealed, so even if we do, the story itself don't.

[shisui]

Oh, that. She might have a role to play just like Hogoromo did, but I wouldn't count her as a real villain like Obito or Madara.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Oh, that. She might have a role to play just like Hogoromo did, but I wouldn't count her as a real villain like Obito or Madara.

You never know. I mentioned that Kishi leaving opened for Hagoromo's brother and Kaguya's end on purpose to leave room for a "twist". Like what happened to her exactly? Or what happened to Hagoromo's brother? Think this way:

If Kaguya:
The twist is that Kaguya died along with the tree or rather sleep with it.

If Hagoromo's brother:
The twist is that he disappeared for desire of greater power during the split of Jinchuuriki.

All I'm saying is that there may be the greater of the two evils.

[rocci]

I think it's kaguya. Juubi it's not the tree incarnation or avatar, but juubi is kaguya who intent to gain more power by absorbing the natural energy. Instead becoming tree, she become a monster tree.

[shisui]

You never know. I mentioned that Kishi leaving opened for Hagoromo's brother and Kaguya's end on purpose to leave room for a "twist". Like what happened to her exactly? Or what happened to Hagoromo's brother? Think this way:

If Kaguya:
The twist is that Kaguya died along with the tree or rather sleep with it.

If Hagoromo's brother:
The twist is that he disappeared for desire of greater power during the split of Jinchuuriki.

All I'm saying is that there may be the greater of the two evils.

 

The final boss appearing out of nowhere is a common thing. It doesn't fit the naruto series though, because the manga relies on foreshadowing.

 

Madara has been the big bad for a long time, since Tobi revealed himself as the man behind Akatsuki. The founding of the Leaf village, the falling of Obito who killed people in his name, this war that was started in his name and where he was always seen as the bigger threat when he was summoned. It was always between him, Obito and Orochimaru (the big bad of part 1 and another one who set a lot in motion). The only other candidate is Sasuke, but he doesn't have the rapsheet Madara or Orochimaru have. He's Naruto's big bad, but not the world's big bad.

 

Kaguya was important because she started the chakra network, but that's as far as it goes because wars existed before her time so she's not the root of all evil either. She was introduced very recently too, but the manga has been running for 15 years. She may have a role, but ever since Obito became a good guy the big bad is either Madara or Orochimaru. Anything else would be an asspull.

Edited by GoogleIsMyFriend, 25 April 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Alright, so I had a train of thought. One that may settle all arguments and let everyone both be right and wrong at the same time. One last time I am going to bring up 540, but not to decipher what the meaning of the scene was or interpretations, but rather a train of thought that occurred.

Going back to Sakura's confession we are told that Sakura lied. About what has been a debate for a while, but never really had solid proof on what she lied about. I think I found a way to prove it: 540. Not only is this scene anti-SS, but I feel also proves that without a doubt that Sakura is really in love with Naruto.

In a Kishimoto interview that has been brought up many times, he has said that at that moment Sakura was being "an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn personality." So to Kishi, she was being honest about something. Now as obvious it was to us that what she was lying about was her "letting go" of Sasuke, there really was no manga proof this is was it...or was there?

540 comes along and she thinks about Sasuke, albeit in a dark tone. People would say that it means she still has feelings for Sasuke. Maybe, but it doesn't mean she still is in love with the guy. It could be a form of her falling out of love with him which is a possibility and coincides with her confession to Naruto. See, if 540 proves that she still retains feelings for Sasuke, then that means that what she said about Sasuke was the lie and thus when she confessed her love to Naruto it was the truth.

Now here is the real kicker. The biggest part of this. If her confession to Naruto proves that she loves him and 540 proves that she still has feelings for Sasuke, but show darker thoughts then it just means even more that NS is still going up while SS is going down. Alone these two scenes could mean anything, but together they prove without a doubt that many things have changed and they still are changing.

To answer a possible question of whether or not Sakura still feels that darkness from Sasuke that she did in 540 or whether she actually doesn't think that anymore...look no farther than when Sai asked her if she trusts him. She gave that fake smile which again only proves that she 540 is meant to be anti-SS and her really moving on from him.

In the words of Ace Ventura

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 April 2014 - 07:55 PM.

[narusaku256]

Alright, so I had a train of thought. One that may settle all arguments and let everyone both be right and wrong at the same time. One last time I am going to bring up 540, but not to decipher what the meaning of the scene was or interpretations, but rather a train of thought that occurred.

Going back to Sakura's confession we are told that Sakura lied. About what has been a debate for a while, but never really had solid proof on what she lied about. I think I found a way to prove it: 540. Not only is this scene anti-SS, but I feel also proves that without a doubt that Sakura is really in loves Naruto.

In a Kishimoto interview that has been brought up many times, he has said that at that moment Sakura was being "an honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn personality." So to Kishi, she was being honest about something. Now as obvious it was to us that what she was lying about was her "letting go" of Sasuke, there really was no manga proof this is was it...or was there?

540 comes along and she thinks about Sasuke, albeit in a dark tone. People would say that it means she still has feelings for Sasuke. Maybe, but it doesn't mean she still is in love with the guy. It could be a form of her falling out of love with him which is a possibility and coincides with her confession to Naruto. See, if 540 proves that she still retains feelings for Sasuke, then that means that what she said about Sasuke was the lie and thus when she confessed her love to Naruto it was the truth.

Now here is the real kicker. The biggest part of this. If her confession to Naruto proves that she loves him and 540 proves that she still has feelings for Sasuke, but show darker thoughts then it just means even more that NS is still going up while SS is going down. Alone these two scenes could mean anything, but together they prove without a doubt that many things have changed and they still are changing.

To answer a possible question of whether or not Sakura still feels that darkness from Sasuke that she did in 540 or whether she actually doesn't think that anymore...look no farther than when Sai asked her if she trusts him. She gave that fake smile which again only proves that she 540 is meant to be anti-SS and her really moving on from him.

In the words of Ace Ventura

I had explained the same things long back. I had even cleared up the 'more or less' thing. But I said it in a different way. Seems like yours is more easy to understand :)

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
The final boss appearing out of nowhere is a common thing. It doesn't fit the naruto series though, because the manga relies on foreshadowing.
 
Madara has been the big bad for a long time, since Tobi revealed himself as the man behind Akatsuki. The founding of the Leaf village, the falling of Obito who killed people in his name, this war that was started in his name and where he was always seen as the bigger threat when he was summoned. It was always between him, Obito and Orochimaru (the big bad of part 1 and another one who set a lot in motion). The only other candidate is Sasuke, but he doesn't have the rapsheet Madara or Orochimaru have. He's Naruto's big bad, but not the world's big bad.
 
Kaguya was important because she started the chakra network, but that's as far as it goes because wars existed before her time so she's not the root of all evil either. She was introduced very recently too, but the manga has been running for 15 years. She may have a role, but ever since Obito became a good guy the big bad is either Madara or Orochimaru. Anything else would be an asspull.

The voice appearing is a foreshadow. It's common that a lesser of two evil apply at the end when you least expected or rather should have. I remember a game heavily focused on one big baddie and when he got defeated, the "sidekick" turns out to be the final villain since it was only a weak state until it got the power back, and it was from the history book of war. So in other words, say Kaguya takes over, Naruto will be the one pointing out that it's the old man's mother and he knows that she's powerful of them all and probably think he and Sasuke are going to be in deep trouble.

So I don't know. I wouldn't call it that. Funny because Obito was never defeated in a beatdown way, so what happen if Madara does lose in a beatdown with the tree inside of him. Not to mention, Obito was controlled once, but why not Madara. Especially since he became a Jinchuuriki while the tree was still outside. I don't know but I will wait and see. Maybe the voice is a good guy and just trolling Madara. Who knows.

[milan kyuubi]

 

 

Guy, Obito, and Team Naru-Saku have done the impossible: they've made Madara lose his cool and realize that things are going pear-shaped for him, and that he might actually have a chance of losing this whole thing. For the first time in the whole manga, he's lost his sense of absolute superiority and is starting to panic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

It could be hagoromo brother, even tough I see it as kaguya.

Nope it's just Chuck Testa.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 April 2014 - 01:57 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I had explained the same things long back. I had even cleared up the 'more or less' thing. But I said it in a different way. Seems like yours is more easy to understand :)

Yes. It has been explained to death, but in reality I am not explaining what it is, but how it is. Many people want to say that Sakura's entire confession is a lie and don't believe any of it was truthful. They try to use 540 as a means to prove why it was all a lie, but in reality 540 proves the opposite. Kishimoto said she was being honest, but people tend to say that she wasn't being honest about the "I love you" part. We have her saying like two things in that confession.

"I love you"
"I no longer care about Sasuke anymore."

It was these two subjects under most debate. If 540 really shows she has some lingering feelings for Sasuke, then that automatically makes the second statement a lie which means that by process of elimination and logical thinking the first part has to be true. It can't be both ways on this one because the rest of it wouldn't make sense if both statement were untrue.

Problem I find is, as usual, some fans both from here and alot of other places tend to keep reading this manga moment by moment. Sure we literally get chapters on a weekly basis, but we can't read this story as a weekly basis. You have to really read this story like it is already complete and how those 17-20 pages each week play into the entire story.

540 is anti-SS not because of what it is, but how it plays to the entire story.

 

Nope it's just Chuck Testa.

 

I was going to say Chuck Finley.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 April 2014 - 02:11 PM.

[narusaku256]

Yes. It has been explained to death, but in reality I am not explaining what it is, but how it is. Many people want to say that Sakura's entire confession is a lie and don't believe any of it was truthful. They try to use 540 as a means to prove why it was all a lie, but in reality 540 proves the opposite. Kishimoto said she was being honest, but people tend to say that she wasn't being honest about the "I love you" part. We have her saying like two things in that confession.
"I love you"
"I no longer care about Sasuke anymore."

It was these two subjects under most debate. If 540 really shows she has some lingering feelings for Sasuke, then that automatically makes the second statement a lie which means that by process of elimination and logical thinking the first part has to be true. It can't be both ways on this one because the rest of it wouldn't make sense if both statement were untrue.

Problem I find is, as usual, some fans both from here and alot of other places tend to keep reading this manga moment by moment. Sure we literally get chapters on a weekly basis, but we can't read this story as a weekly basis. You have to really read this story like it is already complete and how those 17-20 pages each week play into the entire story.

540 is anti-SS not because of what it is, but how it plays to the entire story.
 
 
I was going to say Chuck Finley.

Thou art the man XD...let's just chuck it XD until someone brings this topic up again and needs enlightenment on the subject XD

[Gravenimage]

James you sounded like a preacher, amen.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Thinking of a question..

 

How would you feel if Naruto only went for Sakura for looks?

[luffyq1]

Thinking of a question..

 

How would you feel if Naruto only went for Sakura for looks?

It's fine if that was his initial reasoning in the beginning, considering he was like 12? But for something so shallow to continue for years is still the only reason he likes her, I would've longed dropped NS in a heartbeat. I like my ships to have depth, you know.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's fine if that was his initial reasoning in the beginning, considering he was like 12? But for something so shallow to continue for years is still the only reason he likes her, I would've longed dropped NS in a heartbeat. I like my ships to have depth, you know.

Amen to that.

[FireFox]

No, Pepsi is right. There is indeed a novel of Blood Prison, written by Kishimoto and in this novel, and there are NS moments, but I don't remember what kind of moments. Maybe someone else knows.  

WOW!!!  Really ? I didn't knew about this if we could only get our hands on that novel  . The moments   an OVA 2011 hug moment maybe , forehead kiss , any kind of kiss ? I need to find this asap  . 

[narusaku256]

Thinking of a question..
 
How would you feel if Naruto only went for Sakura for looks?

You know, its kind of difficult to picture Naruto pursuing Sakura because that would mean he would still be like fangirling her which would make NS look like total kitten and no one would have even thought that this pairing could be canon. No one would even support this pairing including me or rather no one would have taken it seriously. How would I feel? Irritated and annoyed at Naruto!

[Inferno180]

Well the good thing is NS actually has development. I mean when we got storyline events actually building off that simple inital crush naruto had on sakura, I mean like the promise and other deals following it when we even get screentime implying the feelings of the other, sakura in this case in regards to naruto well, thats enough reason to say that NS is the focused romance subplot. I mean going beyond the promise, there were scenes in which sakura was concerned for naruto's safety like learning about jinchurki extraction or the 4 tails event, that aftermath scene being on in which well this a statement that could lead somewhere. Then this went really far into the part with sai's reveal why naruto couldn't just confess and the reaction sakura had to the impacts of sasuke on him and what she did herself.

 

This isn't even taking in the possibility of other pairings, even if NS happens or not, it was given focus to the point it has moved along with the main plot itself. The absolute bitter irony in regards to the other pairings is it seemed for a time, NH could go somewhere but kishi still leaves it behind. SS is just impossible at this point simply because of the notion of sakura gradually changing in the story and sasuke just plain doesnt even have a reason for this. there is no sasuke loves sakura, no he will realize it, its just plain damned story logic and acceptability at this point, there is no way, meaning or even reason for kishi to write sasuke loving anyone at this point aside from his own family and well thats been the internal conflict on his part, trying to find the reason for the loss of his family, not loving another girl when his whole point was rather to find himself within his ideals for revenge.

 

And its just gone further, I mean some part of me suspects kishi wrote the land of iron as he did in part because he wanted to lose the audience a bit before kushina was introduced, maybe that was the idea, make them think Naruto was over sakura (when he wasn't) then add his mother in, set up a foreshadow of some ending pairing, then reveal the stuff in 631. I mean even for a moment given so much criticism and divided views, its ironically one of the only kishi has ever commented on, even saying sakura didn't manipulate naruto. She only tried to do what she thought was right to protect him even if it wasnt all the best way to do it. But hey, when events like these played out and show hints that NS is still around and that Naruto still loves Sakura, not even moving or having any notion to hinata (even when kishi finds short time in the war to add stuff like he did in 631 or even bigger, make hinata miss the 662 and 663 events, its like how much longer can we actually expect something to occur for NH if Hinata herself is missing?)

 

I mean despite how its went, like it or hate it, ns isnt perfect even in its writing, even if it seems sakuras role is otherwise restricted at times just for this, kishi at least made it part of the longer plot, its just a subelement thats run with it as both a character development piece of both naruto and sakura but also served as an undergoal to the main one for the hero and its been given its fair share of focus, its one of the key factors that caused the land of iron stuff that played out as it did and if anything caused the hints of the kushina foreshadow as well and its just, at this point, we can say its being used, its been given attention. If its getting attention then that should at least merit it has a role in the future, it will explain something or lead to some point in the plot on another note. I mean theres a hint of what can come just from 663, sakura wants naruto to become hokage. I only see distrust in SS and well, we are blind to NH because theres no telling what kishi actually intends to do with hinata when 615 hasn't gone much anywhere on her end, only neji being important there and well her tripping without anything so much currently doesn't give me a good idea of what to expect from her.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I got to say, for whatever reason, I like how Naruto is able to recognized her right away in any moment, including 631. I mean if you can't tell a person, then I don't think you should go with him/her. I mean imagine if Sakura was captured by someone else and you can't recognized who is that person, then maybe you don't have that close bond than you thought. Then again, if one person is so bland, can't blame him/her for that. Lol.