19964 replies to this topic

[StrikerTheNoble]

If people can spout nonsense about 2009 Interview hinting at Sasuke being Hokage instead of Naruto, what makes you believes that they will not continue to spout out nonsense about NH and SS having a better chance than NS?

My only concern with NS is that for any chance Kishi got buy out by the fandom otherwise all the hints, parallels, foreshadowing, etc, in the Manga are leading to a NS end.





1st- Ino never said anything like that in Naruto episode 23 unless some Naruto anime site remove that part.

2nd- That Ino seems like Ino from Shippuden but Naruto shippuden episode 23 was Chiyo and Sakura vs Sasori.

Does Anyone has the ability to post a image shot of this scene?

Yea its the picture of Ino`s shippuden version but... Ino did say that. In the manga noless. Naruto was being to loud and Ino was being a jerk to Sakura and started teasing her. It happened in part 1 right after Ino`s introduction.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yea its the picture of Ino`s shippuden version but... Ino did say that. In the manga noless. Naruto was being to loud and Ino was being a jerk to Sakura and started teasing her. It happened in part 1 right after Ino`s introduction.

Actually, I want to know this too. Anime or not. Actually, I think I know who to contact.

[StrikerTheNoble]

Actually, I want to know this too. Anime or not. Actually, I think I know who to contact.

Its cannon. Happened in the manga. Il double check when I get home.

[Branden]

Its cannon. Happened in the manga. Il double check when I get home.

please tell us the chapter, just "in the manga" is so little to go off of.

[Shadow1275]

please tell us the chapter, just "in the manga" is so little to go off of.

I don't think it happened in the manga. It was in like Naruto 34-36. I'm about 95% sure, could be wrong though

[Slextrem]

It's a line that's only in the anime, though the scene itself is canon. This is what is actually said in the manga:

Sakura: "He's too stupid to get down..."
Ino: "Hey!!!! What is he!?"

http://www.mangahere...05/c039/17.html

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's a line that's only in the anime, though the scene itself is canon. This is what is actually said in the manga:

Sakura: "He's too stupid to get down..."
Ino: "Hey!!!! What is he!?"

http://www.mangahere...05/c039/17.html

Wow. Pierrot's secret exposed early? Thanks btw.

[Slextrem]

Wow. Pierrot's secret exposed early? Thanks btw.

No problem.

[Inferno180]

If people can spout nonsense about 2009 Interview hinting at Sasuke being Hokage instead of Naruto, what makes you believes that they will not continue to spout out nonsense about NH and SS having a better chance than NS?

My only concern with NS is that for any chance Kishi got buy out by the fandom otherwise all the hints, parallels, foreshadowing, etc, in the Manga are leading to a NS end.

If kishi got bought out due to the fandoms, then he would have tanked for the money rather than the story he orgininally sought to tell. Its funny though, just about any arguement a NH or SS fan could put forward, we have ways to debunk it.

The parallels, no doubt that the Sannin are right with Team 7, but some try to attribute Hinata as Rins parallel, Hinata is not a medic and her own team dyamic is not there so another parallel to her busted. Team 7 has 2 parallels, Hinata has none. What about Kushina? They say Hinata is like her, how about the fact that it would be easier to believe if her background was actually the same as Hinata. Kishi could have done this but he did not, he again chose Sakura. Kushina did not have family issues, trouble believing in herself, hell Kishi could have made a situation in which Kushina saved Minato like when she protected naruto against pain, but he did not (And they cannot use the defending Naruto at birth one, that was for the whole village not just Naruto though they directly defended him). He chose Sakura's childhood to develop Kushina. Only thing Kushina has in common with Hinata is being kidnapped by the cloud ninja (thats a bad trait if you want to compare them) and even then in the clouds defense they were the biggest miltiarizing nation, they always competed with the leaf, they had 2 tailed beasts, attepted to get the 9 tails around the 1st war, captured all 5 sage of the six path artifacts, hunted the buyakugan twice, and kidnapping kushina could have given them uzumaki powers and possibly even kurama if she was a jinchurki at that point, the cloud was always warmongering.

In road to ninja, Kishi again could have just made Hinata start with Naruto but did not, he chose Sakura. I even heard that Minato asks him about Sakura and Kushina teases him. Many say its non-canon, its all an illusion, etc. Yeah its non-canon but we count it for a few reasons otherwise, kishi made it so he could give us an example of what he could want to do in the manga. Its the only movie based off canon material, it proves narusaku fits the minakush parallel, it proves Naruto and Sakura have the foundation for a better relationship beyond mere friendship. Even in non-canon stuff NaruSaku is still bigger.

No need to get into SS stuff, thats just fanfiction

NH could happen, it would just be much weaker than NaruSaku, but doing this would cost some damage to naruto himself as a character, I mean its like they want him to just stop loving Sakura, asking that is basically having him settle for Hinata out of pity which is exactly what they should not want. We know hinata loves him, but does she know who he loves? Does her love carry the same impact as his for Sakura and Sakura's friendship between him and ideal love for Sasuke? We had a major scene showing how much pain they caused each other which just gives NaruSaku a much stronger feel and still nothing but a minor flashback for Hinata defending Naruto and a hand holding scene which quickly ended. NaruSaku just has a much bigger impact and Naruto is not suddenly over Sakura for the sake of the confession, his feelings would not change in an instant espcially when Sai tells him it was practially his fault. Just so much would be wrong on Naruto's character to suddenly do this, too much damage in being over Sakura.

NH exists though so it could happen and SS may be on the verge of revival (hopefully not) but either way these lead to just plain poor writing and story damage.

[Sojobo]

What's the story there?

Also, about Hinata, if she wasn't gonna do something for Naruto in 615 then she wasn't gonna do anything at all for the rest of the series. That was her character resolution, it had to be her. Someone else might've gotten it wrong. (extra points if anyone gets the reference )

Chapters 614 and 615 were the resolution of the Hyuuga storyline from back on the chunin exams. Neji finally understands free will and Hinata is finally able to speak to Naruto face to face.

For Android Saga, you probably know that it was never planned by Toriyama.
Well, C-17 and C-18 were never planned by Toriyama, C-19 and C-20 were the only androids that the Z warriors had to fight. Toriyama assistant than said that it would be better to create other Androids, and than he change his story and created C-17/18. But that wasn't enough for his assistant, he said to him, man they will have to fight a girl and a boy in the end, so Toriyama decided to change his story again and created Cell.
That's why the Android Saga seems weird.

This is proof that a mangaka doesn't have full control on his work, and that he sometimes have to change his story for the fan's sake.
Same goes for Vegeta, I like the character, but he was never meant to stay alive after Saiyan Saga.

Today I'm seeying some weird stuff in Naruto's War, a lot of fanservice, and illogical choices.
About Hinata and the Hyuuga, I agree with you, but the holding hand stuff, it was really not neccesary.

Edited by Sojobo, 19 April 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[Don-kun]

Wow. Pierrot's secret exposed early? Thanks btw.

Yeah I always wonder why Pierrot try to hard to sell the idea of NS even after they declared to be some huge Hinata fan boys.

If kishi got bought out due to the fandoms, then he would have tanked for the money rather than the story he originally sought to tell. Its funny though, just about any argument a NH or SS fan could put forward, we have ways to debunk it.

The parallels, no doubt that the Sannin are right with Team 7, but some try to attribute Hinata as Rins parallel, Hinata is not a medic and her own team dyamic is not there so another parallel to her busted. Team 7 has 2 parallels, Hinata has none. What about Kushina? They say Hinata is like her, how about the fact that it would be easier to believe if her background was actually the same as Hinata. Kishi could have done this but he did not, he again chose Sakura. Kushina did not have family issues, trouble believing in herself, hell Kishi could have made a situation in which Kushina saved Minato like when she protected Naruto against pain, but he did not (And they cannot use the defending Naruto at birth one, that was for the whole village not just Naruto though they directly defended him). He chose Sakura's childhood to develop Kushina. Only thing Kushina has in common with Hinata is being kidnapped by the cloud ninja (thats a bad trait if you want to compare them) and even then in the clouds defense they were the biggest militarizing nation, they always competed with the leaf, they had 2 tailed beasts, attempted to get the 9 tails around the 1st war, captured all 5 sage of the six path artifacts, hunted the buyakugan twice, and kidnapping kushina could have given them uzumaki powers and possibly even kurama if she was a jinchurki at that point, the cloud was always warmongering.

In road to ninja, Kishi again could have just made Hinata start with Naruto but did not, he chose Sakura. I even heard that Minato asks him about Sakura and Kushina teases him. Many say its non-canon, its all an illusion, etc. Yeah its non-canon but we count it for a few reasons otherwise, kishi made it so he could give us an example of what he could want to do in the manga. Its the only movie based off canon material, it proves narusaku fits the minakush parallel, it proves Naruto and Sakura have the foundation for a better relationship beyond mere friendship. Even in non-canon stuff NaruSaku is still bigger.

No need to get into SS stuff, that's just fanfiction

NH could happen, it would just be much weaker than NaruSaku, but doing this would cost some damage to Naruto himself as a character, I mean its like they want him to just stop loving Sakura, asking that is basically having him settle for Hinata out of pity which is exactly what they should not want. We know hinata loves him, but does she know who he loves? Does her love carry the same impact as his for Sakura and Sakura's friendship between him and ideal love for Sasuke? We had a major scene showing how much pain they caused each other which just gives NaruSaku a much stronger feel and still nothing but a minor flashback for Hinata defending Naruto and a hand holding scene which quickly ended. NaruSaku just has a much bigger impact and Naruto is not suddenly over Sakura for the sake of the confession, his feelings would not change in an instant especially when Sai tells him it was practically his fault. Just so much would be wrong on Naruto's character to suddenly do this, too much damage in being over Sakura.

NH exists though so it could happen and SS may be on the verge of revival (hopefully not) but either way these lead to just plain poor writing and story damage.

You're absolutely correct about this but you also need to remember that the buy out is not something to disregard since Kishi admit that he recently that made some changes that he originally did not intended, for example we haves the Kages helping Sasuke to see the light when the story always hinted that Naruto would be the one who help him, I will be honest since Kishi introduced Itachi and Sasuke 2nd meeting I always saw him as a much better suitable person to help Sasuke since Sasuke believes in Itachi more than anyone else, but Naruto would definitely be the last person to completely change his view.

Anyway lets go back to where Kishimoto said that he add some characters he originally did not intend to add those are the Hokages and they are the reason why Sasuke decided on this new path, what would happen if Kishi never changed his mind? Kishi would be force to have Naruto be the savor something many Sasuke fans were not too please about.

If we add this to the time he said that he would write more about Hinata when he already promise the readers that he would write more about Sakura but instead he admitted that she slip his mind, Junko Takeuchi said that he didn't want to make a Naruto movie he wanted to make a Sasuke movie, he said that he is similar to Naruto and Kiba and if he have to choose one of the Konoha girls maybe he would choose Hinata if he is forced.
Him being Kiba or Naruto and Kiba teasing Naruto about Hinata automatically eliminates Kiba, plus the fact that he said that he didn't focus more on Sakura family because he felt that the readers wouldn't be interested. So he basically admitted that he doesn't want to lose any rating.

To be honest my logic stays with NS but my trust in Kishi delivering is not that great anymore.

Edited by Don-kun, 19 April 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[rikakim94]

For Android Saga, you probably know that it was never planned by Toriyama.
Well, C-17 and C-18 were never planned by Kishimoto, C-19 and C-20 were the only androids that the Z warriors had to fight. Toriyama assistant than said that it would be better to create other Androids, and than he change his story and created C-17/18. But that wasn't enough for his assistant, he said to him, man they will have to fight a girl and a boy in the end, so Toriyama decided to change his story again and created Cell.
That's why the Android Saga seems weird.

This is proof that a mangaka doesn't have full control on his work, and that he sometimes have to change his story for the fan's sake.
Same goes for Vegeta, I like the character, but he was never meant to stay alive after Saiyan Saga.

Today I'm seeying some weird stuff in Naruto's War, a lot of fanservice, and illogical choices.
About Hinata and the Hyuuga, I agree with you, but the holding hand stuff, it was really not neccesary.

I found this info on the website http://www.ask.com/w...o=2800&qsrc=999 if you read the editor section it tells you that the editor is considered to be the boss of the storytelling rather than the mangaka.

Maybe thats why kishi story has been all over the place lately....

[Chatte]

To be honest I kinda don't believe in Kishimoto anymore. I am sorry to say it, but every time I put my hope in him, he screwed me up. And it was something like a hope that would benefit the story itself, however, as I see, Kishi doesn't give a crap about it.
NaruSaku is and it will always be my otp, however, forgive me if I don't trust in Kishi even after everything. Development, etc. I know how the world of marketing goes. The money makes the world go round. We like it or not. NH is a huge fanbase. And also, guess where it's established... In America. Japan doesn't necessarily likes America and their culture but I always saw that tendency to please the audience there. And I understand why. They bring the most money... Money makes the world go round and here we go in circles.
Meh, anyway...

Edited by Chatte, 19 April 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yeah I always wonder why Pierrot try to hard to sell the idea of NS even after they declared to be some huge Hinata fan boys.

Yeah...fishy.

Well, looks like we are going to full circle. I'll just say this: Kishi already said that his main plot points are set in stone, but getting to them is where he's having the problem. That's why this arc seems out of place and it's not just 615. It's just everything because he just promised the world that everyone will get their shining moments, and to me, I don't think he wouldn't want to since he neglected them for past almost whole part 2, with exception of Team 10. For all we need, these guys are like One Piece: one arc matters, never again the next.

What I'm saying is that his main plot and ending is set in stone, but the stuff we see, such as how to get that point while develop them, is where he having trouble. Noticed how normal and breeze it was back in past arcs. While some parts could change, he didn't need to deal with all characters and/or any closures since it's not that time. It went smoothly and we were focused on the main characters. This arc is a revisit to Chuunin Exam, especially how everyone flashback that timeline as well as saying stuff from part 1, with few alterations.

What I'm worried is the deliver of a moment. I believe a lot of people jumped to conclusion too quick in the recent chapter, especially how ambiguous it was. But they won't listen, so I keep it myself. That said it's the delivery that worries me because it's only then I realized the limitations of a manga, such as page limitand/or volume limit. I hope he's not that restricted in terms of that. Anyway, lots of closure happening, I think it's getting more straightforward, especially when the focus will be on Team 7, especially since Sasuke is arriving. That's what I feel in a nutshell. Yes, in nutshell.

[Don-kun]

I found this info on the website http://www.ask.com/w...o=2800&qsrc=999 if you read the editor section it tells you that the editor is considered to be the boss of the storytelling rather than the mangaka.

Maybe thats why kishi story has been all over the place lately....

This means that if the Editors are the boos, then Kishimoto is a two faced because he said that he can finally do what he wants but later on Junko said he wanted to write a Sasuke movie.

[redragon88]

If we add this to the time he said that he would write more about Hinata when he already promise the readers that he would write more about Sakura but instead he admitted that she slip his mind, Junko Takeuchi said that he didn't want to make a Naruto movie he wanted to make a Sasuke movie, he said that he is similar to Naruto and Kiba and if he have to choose one of the Konoha girls maybe he would choose Hinata if he is forced.
Him being Kiba or Naruto and Kiba teasing Naruto about Hinata automatically eliminates Kiba, plus the fact that he said that he didn't focus more on Sakura family because he felt that the readers wouldn't be interested. So he basically admitted that he doesn't want to lose any rating.

To be honest my logic stays with NS but my trust in Kishi delivering is not that great anymore.

Could you please tell me when did Kishi said he would write more about Hinata because I don't remember that at all.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Could you please tell me when did Kishi said he would write more about Hinata because I don't remember that at all.

Yeah, I just took a trip to memory lane, and there was none. At times, I feel like he secretly takes jab at her. Secretly that is. Like let's say for example, don't take it serious.

Kishi: "People keep wanting her to be paired with, especially with Naruto. You know what, I won't let it happen. While I'm at it, I make sure she don't get paired with anyone. I'll kill Neji off."

Again, it's a joke but sometimes I do think he takes a jab, especially Kushina's last words. Of course he still has to please before exposing further. I guess that's why she got KO asap by Pain, but maybe he's being consistent (burn!). I digress. I should think of a topic.

[James S Cassidy]

Yeah...fishy.

Well, looks like we are going to full circle. I'll just say this: Kishi already said that his main plot points are set in stone, but getting to them is where he's having the problem. That's why this arc seems out of place and it's not just 615. It's just everything because he just promised the world that everyone will get their shining moments, and to me, I don't think he wouldn't want to since he neglected them for past almost whole part 2, with exception of Team 10. For all we need, these guys are like One Piece: one arc matters, never again the next.

What I'm saying is that his main plot and ending is set in stone, but the stuff we see, such as how to get that point while develop them, is where he having trouble. Noticed how normal and breeze it was back in past arcs. While some parts could change, he didn't need to deal with all characters and/or any closures since it's not that time. It went smoothly and we were focused on the main characters. This arc is a revisit to Chuunin Exam, especially how everyone flashback that timeline as well as saying stuff from part 1, with few alterations.

What I'm worried is the deliver of a moment. I believe a lot of people jumped to conclusion too quick in the recent chapter, especially how ambiguous it was. But they won't listen, so I keep it myself. That said it's the delivery that worries me because it's only then I realized the limitations of a manga, such as page limitand/or volume limit. I hope he's not that restricted in terms of that. Anyway, lots of closure happening, I think it's getting more straightforward, especially when the focus will be on Team 7, especially since Sasuke is arriving. That's what I feel in a nutshell. Yes, in nutshell.

Yeah, but I also think Kishi makes mistakes too. He is human too and there no doubt I think he might have either rushed something, forgot something, or wrote himself into a corner. He can be a good writer at times, but sometimes it seems like he starts the race before he even finishes it.

Imagine if you were a writer and you got so excited you wrote all this stuff for this character and decide to focus only on that. Now you used all the good development you have upfront and got nothing until you reach a certain check point. (This is how I see with Sakura, BTW.) So now, you're stuck with this character and not sure what to do with it. So instaad you focus on others characters and say, I'll come back to it and use this to fill space. Possibly get some other stuff done.

Like this chapter: Thinking about it and what you said about it, imagine if we went through all that and Sasuke didn't change at all. It would all seem like a waste. However, if Sasuke did change even a little, then you got what we have now with people confused and don't know what is going on. I think he might have jumped the gun on this one and it has become a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't kind of moment.

It could be many factors. I will say this, this will probably lead to something important, but I probably will still say "This could have been executed better." Imagine if a mangaka can actually go back and rewrite some of his manga if he wanted to. I wonder if any mangaka has tried to write a manga with two endings? If I was that, it would be something I would want to do and the let the fanbase choose what is canon to them. It would be an idea to try if it hasn't been done already.

One issue I am afraid of though is how many twist there are. Put it this way, remember COD4 when they dropped the nuke and your guy died? That was so shock and awe and no one foresaw that. MW2 comes along and they do the same thing three times in one game. Now it isn't as impressive and the shock is gone.

It's like this with Sasuke. This "change" he has done in this chapter is not a twist or a shock, but rather a confusion as now he HAS to change back to evil in order for him and Naruto to fight. If the plan IS to have that fight happen in the end, then this kind of seems weird and the future development is almost predictable. It's just a matter of when.

Sasuke is always flipping sides at awkward times for weird reasons and it's...getting boring, I want to say.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yeah, but I also think Kishi makes mistakes too. He is human too and there no doubt I think he might have either rushed something, forgot something, or wrote himself into a corner. He can be a good writer at times, but sometimes it seems like he starts the race before he even finishes it.

Imagine if you were a writer and you got so excited you wrote all this stuff for this character and decide to focus only on that. Now you used all the good development you have upfront and got nothing until you reach a certain check point. (This is how I see with Sakura, BTW.) So now, you're stuck with this character and not sure what to do with it. So instaad you focus on others characters and say, I'll come back to it and use this to fill space. Possibly get some other stuff done.

Like this chapter: Thinking about it and what you said about it, imagine if we went through all that and Sasuke didn't change at all. It would all seem like a waste. However, if Sasuke did change even a little, then you got what we have now with people confused and don't know what is going on. I think he might have jumped the gun on this one and it has become a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't kind of moment.

It could be many factors. I will say this, this will probably lead to something important, but I probably will still say "This could have been executed better." Imagine if a mangaka can actually go back and rewrite some of his manga if he wanted to. I wonder if any mangaka has tried to write a manga with two endings? If I was that, it would be something I would want to do and the let the fanbase choose what is canon to them. It would be an idea to try if it hasn't been done already.

One issue I am afraid of though is how many twist there are. Put it this way, remember COD4 when they dropped the nuke and your guy died? That was so shock and awe and no one foresaw that. MW2 comes along and they do the same thing three times in one game. Now it isn't as impressive and the shock is gone.

It's like this with Sasuke. This "change" he has done in this chapter is not a twist or a shock, but rather a confusion as now he HAS to change back to evil in order for him and Naruto to fight. If the plan IS to have that fight happen in the end, then this kind of seems weird and the future development is almost predictable. It's just a matter of when.

Sasuke is always flipping sides at awkward times for weird reasons and it's...getting boring, I want to say.

This I understand. Well, what I said in the chapter thread, I am in the middle. I don't know if this is a good development chapter or a bad one. One thing I can say is it was rushed, mainly after the decision was made. It should have been two chapters. That said I do agree with you about not being executed well. Writing two endings could be used in the ambiguous way. Funny thing is if the creator of Death Note took control of Naruto, he would have Naruto and Sasuke dead at the very end. He always seem to be the type of person that likes ending them dead but leave a message. Heck, even if the made-up manga in Bakuman has that ending and guess what, it's the number 1 manga in that universe. Talk about ego. Luckily (maybe sadly) that is not the case for Naruto. I just hope a good emotional battle though.

Yeah, the twists are getting old. But that's Sasuke for you, the guy who tries to understand where he's going, much like us trying to understand where is this manga going. Oh I remember that scene completely. I said, "Oh *beep*" out loud that time. Well, they didn't drop nuke 3 times in MW2 though, but I get what you're saying. Quite frankly, I think they went far with that highly offensive airport scene. Not me, but one friend of mine was. Anyway, yeah, it is tiring and to be honest, it's most likely that we will get another one from Sasuke. I know it's troublesome, but sigh, guess we have to deal with it. The fight will happen, but yeah, getting there by judging Sasuke alone is getting tiresome. I guess we are almost near done, so yeah, bare with it once more.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 19 April 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[HauntedCake]

can someone clear all this up about the mangaka and editors. I would really hate for the editors to be making the story and not kishi......