2479 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I can't agree with Tauriel, Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are the first reason why she is hated, this has nothing to do with her loving Naruto or not. Most people would be fine with her not loving Naruto as long as she doesn't love Sasuke. Her feelings for Sasuke were understandable in part 1, I too went in this phase in a part of my life, but after the timeskip her feelings for him were simply frustrating and now after the various murder attempts it makes no sense and is illogical, and all of that for the sake of drama. Sakura's feelings are the biggest hindrance to her character it's as if she has no self respect when it comes to Sasuke and I really hate it.
The truth tough is Naruto is even worse, at least Sakura doubted Sasuke and gave up on him multiple times, we never see this process with Naruto he always believed in Sasuke whilst the dude never gave him any reason to and their so called friendship and rivalry is so forced it is not believable in any way shape or form especially compared to other like HashiMada. Naruto has better friends than Sasuke like Gaara or Shika yet he still clings to his nonsencical and inexistant friendship with Sasuke and there are no valuable reasons why, it's as if Naruto doesn't want a real friend, is he masochist ? Kishi has pushed it too far.
The whole Sasuke issue is ridiculous at this point but we have no other choice but to accept.

Agree with you, the Naruto's issue, i felt that this was the problem with the shippuuden, i can understand that he wants to bring Sasuke back but he focused on that too much, and all of this became irrelevant since Sasuke came back and they will have to fight nonetheless, the whole "Sasuke" thing got focused so much that degraded Naruto's character, he wanst a good character until Pain's arc when Kishimoto give him a new objective "Bringer of peace" and now that the whole "if Sasuke die i cant be hokage" doenst exists anymore thanks to Neji's death, for me that was the best outcome of his death.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 June 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Akashi]

Going to disagree with you here..

 

You say Sakura's development is mostly to do with fighting with Sasuke and Naruto which i can agree with but it isn't a major part of her development at all.

 

90% of her entire development is romance based between Naruto and Sasuke. The other 10% is her wanting to be strong and be able to fight with them.

 

This is why who shes ends up with is very important because that single choice will reflect her development and her maturity. This is why Sakura gets a lot of hate/bashing because of her fangirling to sasuke because it shows regression/damage to her development that supposedly has her mature away from the bad choice Sasuke to the best choice Naruto.

 

Sakura and her mentaility is the only fuel to the pairing wars, we just fan the flames.

So in other words she's just a pairing fodder?

Ever since part I she was seeking for acknowledgement. You can remember how she started off as a weak kid, who was bullied by everyone until Ino appeared. She was her first friend, and the person who taught her that she should stand up for herself. Then she became the part of team seven, but still she was no match for her teammates, and ended up standing in their way: the weakest member of her team, who always needed protection.

If romance was so important for her, why in world did she ask Tsunade to train her? Why she was trying so hard to catch up with Naruto and Sasuke? Because she needed acknowledgement. It's exactly the reason why Naruto loves her so much: back in chapter 3 she confessed that most of all she wanted acknowledgement (even if she wanted it from Sasuke). Then things changed... Now she wanted to get acknowledged by both Sasuke and Naruto: that's been shown back in 631, when she said "don't think I'm some weak woman that can't compete with you", followed by Naruto gently smiling at her, almost as if saying "yeah... that's the girl I love".

Now her dream of fighting as an equal alongside her team has come true. That was something she wanted back from part I.

If you think that Sakura is all about pairing wars... well... I don't know how much do you like her character. 

Edited by Tauriel, 01 June 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

So in other words she's just a pairing fodder?

Ever since part I she was seeking for acknowledgement. You can remember how she started off as a weak kid, who was bullied by everyone until Ino appeared. She was her first friend, and the person who taught her that she should stand up for herself. Then she became the part of team seven, but still she was no match for her teammates, and ended up standing in their way: the weakest member of her team, who always needed protection.

If romance was so important for her, why in world did she ask Tsunade to train her? Why she was trying so hard to catch up with Naruto and Sasuke? Because she needed acknowledgement. It's exactly the reason why Naruto loves her so much: back in chapter 3 she confessed that most of all she wanted acknowledgement (even if she wanted it from Sasuke). Then things changed... Now she wanted to get acknowledged by both Sasuke and Naruto: that's been shown back in 631, when she said "don't think I'm some weak woman that can't compete with you", followed by Naruto gently smiling at her, almost as if saying "yeah... that's the girl I love".

Now her dream of fighting as an equal alongside her team has come true. That was something she wanted back from part I.

If you think that Sakura is all about pairing wars... well... I don't know how much do you like her character. 

She's not a pairing fodder but i can easily say that she's the character who is the romance subplot of this manga, she got more development on terms of romance than this acknowledgement issue, she resolved that on this chapter, but the romance issue got the biggest part of her character that's for sure.

 

About the bolded, to help Naruto bring Sasuke back since she swore that they would bring him back together.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 June 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

 

I agree with you ramenanmitsu. Actually her development concerns both boys.

Thou the romance part of her development is strong, yet I wonder now how much it really is. Don't we as fans consider it's bigger than it actually is?

I think because her development is about her team, and two of her potential love interests happen to be in the same team, every team interaction looks like a pairing interaction. Because we fans see with pairing goggles on.

 

For example, at the end of chapter 632, Sakura was teasing Naruto. Yet NS fans like to think of it as she was flirting with him.

Or at the end of chapter 632, Sakura was calling out Sasuke's name. Her face looked surprised and grateful that he protected her. Yet SS fans like to think of it as she being affectionate with him.

It was most likely just a team 7 moment, showing that their chemistry hasn't changed, and that they are back and fighting together.

 

Chapter 632 was supposed to be a team interaction, but we fans of each respective pairings, turned and twisted them into a pairing interaction. So yes I agree, we make the romance part bigger than it actually is. And in the end, we ourselves make Sakura a pairing centered character, when most likely that wasn't the initial intention of the writer. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 01 June 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Awes9]

Agree with you, the Naruto's issue, i felt that this was the problem with the shippuuden, i can understand that he wants to bring Sasuke back but he focused on that too much, and all of this became irrelevant since Sasuke came back and they will have to fight nonetheless, the whole "Sasuke" thing got focused so much that degraded Naruto's character, he wanst a good character until Pain's arc when Kishimoto give him a new objective "Bringer of peace" and now that the whole "if Sasuke die i cant be hokage" doenst exists anymore thanks to Neji's death, for me that was the best outcome of his death.

Naruto during Pain arc was fantastic but it all went down the drain during the Kage summit arc, I still can't get over the hyperventilation no jutsu. Then he became the messiah and started preaching terrible and flat speeches and his ego took a huge boost, fortunately this phase is over after Neji's death and Naruto is an enjoyable character again.

Ramenitsu : I completely agree there was absolutely no romance in this chapter it was just the good old team 7 but the fandom twisted it.
I dont like Hinata but the same is true for her, everything she does is for romance not for personal growth. It's really sad how the fandom view the girls in the manga as nothing more than pairing fodder and everything they do centers around romance and not for personal growth of the characters.

Edited by Awes9, 01 June 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Don-kun]

The sad thing is that about 80% (or even more) of the fandom are constantly viewing manga with the pairing goggles on. Yet they say that they're NARUTO fans first of all.. I often see arguments like "Kishi's damaging her character", "why is he making her do this, what about all the development she went though?" etc. I bet that those are just mere excuses of people who are pissed off about why he's not making NS canon already.

Guys, I sincerely respect and adore any one of you, but don't you think that you're sometimes overreacting a bit too much? I guess that Kishi would have done Sakura's character way more damage if he made her forget all the feeling she had for Sasuke and jump into Naruto's hands.. he needs to give his characters (even pairing-wise) a proper resolution. Sakura still has lingering feelings for Sasuke.. we can't deny it as well as the fact that she has growing feelings for Naruto. No reason to jump out of our pants every time Sakura and Sasuke appear on the same panel, or somehow interact. Same goes for Naruto and Hinata.

 

It's not like our complaints will affect the story, anyway... I know that Kishi is now the best author out there, but he's not as bad as we take him to be sometimes. It's just a good thing to take off pairing goggles more often and just enjoy the story. To cheer you guys up let me mention that right now NS has the best chance of happening than SS or NH.

 

Cheers~

 

 

Agree with the bolded. It's like you took words out of my mouth. I even made a thread about it before. I feel annoyed that people can only judge her character based on pairings. 

 

Sakura in chapter 632 was awesome but this thread was not, because people were bashing her "she's still fangirling" or "If she still likes Sasuke the development was for nothing!" The major part of her development is to fight alongside with Sasuke and Naruto and to protect them. It's not about who she chooses. So deal with it

 

You are both right but you also need to remember that what most off us have in common is her love for NS, so is Natural that some fans will look on the lent Naruto has gone for Sakura and the sacrifice he would do for her happiness but despite that Sakura not only see her teammate as equal in her mind Sasuke still has more influence on her character and Naruto only when she leans on him.

 

Naruto was the one who pick her up from her depressed self with his determination to saves Sasuke that pushes her to go for Tsunade's help.

 

Is nice that she wants to be equal to both guys but at some point I want her to thank Naruto just like when Naruto thanked Hinata , I want Sakura to tell Naruto that she believes in him, thank him for being there for her, thank him for believing in her 631 last panel, thank him for trying to help Sasuke and restore the Team. Not that all she will do know is believe in them even that created some bashing to her character mostly because Sasuke just tried to kill her and bowed to destroy everything she holds dear.

 

If Kishi would simple insert in her flash back her being thankful because of Naruto's determination she didn't give up that would of kill any negative thought any other fan would want to create after the chapter, since most of them were about asspull and Sakura giving Naruto the middle finger, and NH saying that he had it coming after what he did to Hinata.

 

Has a NS, Sakura and Naruto fan, I hate that bc of this pairing crap Kishi refuses to have Sakura acknowledge Naruto for all what he has done and help her accomplish with his inspiration despite the fact that he can do it in a non pairing way.

The fact that Naruto needed to remind her that he was also there make most of the non Team 7, Sasuke, and SS fans annoyed, at this stage after Sai's revelation, Summit arc, 573, and 630 Kishi should never insert a joke like that one just to bring back Team 7 nostalgic feelings, it felt  forced and like him throwing all their history under the rug to please a group of fans.

 

I know some of you are Sasuke fans and nothing is wrong with that, but I really wish this behavior would take place after Sasuke commit himself to be their friends genuinely, show some sorriness for his behavior, because after all the kitten he has done to both of them, saying he doesn't care what they think, he wants to be Hokage knowing that this is Naruto long time dream them asking Naruto to stay of his way, only implies bad writing.

 

God I know this moment was great for SS, Sasuke fans, for us Sakura fans and you Team 7 fans, but please don't go showing your disappointment when we all know Sasuke background and his current behavior still ask questions.

Edited by Don-kun, 01 June 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[YukiNozomi212]

uuhh... hey guys, I just reread the chapter for god knows how many times, and I just noticed something...

 

I don't know if you did too, but everyone seemed to confuse the conversation between Naruto and Sakura on that last page, where we thought the lines "Don't get in my way, Naruto" were said by Sakura along with her next lines... but apparently, it wasn't. I don't know, but please correct me if I'm wrong

 

apparently they were said by SASUKE, not Sakura.

 

and I just wanna know... does this somehow now change the meaning of the conversation and our standing as NS even for a little based on the translations by @ 天地長久  he posted here http://www.narusaku....=80#entry470869 now that we know it was actually Sasuke who said those lines, and was unfortunately included in the conversation rather than it being just Naruto and Sakura

 

but I apologize for my ignorance if this has already been obvious from the start and I was just slow to catch on...  

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, I have seen more matured responses in here and happy to see them. Honestly, my point stand, it's meant to be Team 7. I even wrote it in my review here (I believe page 13). I didn't even see it as any pairing moments. So yeah, I'm also happy to see what's more to Sakura's character and clearly this is the development here. It's not a romance development, just her character development. If you want romance development or foreshadow like last chapter, then just wait until the plot demands it. Just sit back and relax. Happy to see these posts.

[Branden]

uuhh... hey guys, I just reread the chapter for god knows how many times, and I just noticed something...

 

I don't know if you did too, but everyone seemed to confuse the conversation between Naruto and Sakura on that last page, where we thought the lines "Don't get in my way, Naruto" were said by Sakura along with her next lines... but apparently, it wasn't. I don't know, but please correct me if I'm wrong

 

apparently they were said by SASUKE, not Sakura.

 

and I just wanna know... does this somehow now change the meaning of the conversation and our standing as NS even for a little based on the translations by @ 天地長久  he posted here http://www.narusaku....=80#entry470869 now that we know it was actually Sasuke who said those lines, and was unfortunately included in the conversation rather than it being just Naruto and Sakura

 

but I apologize for my ignorance if this has already been obvious from the start and I was just slow to catch on...  

huh? who didn't know that? I havent seen a single person who's been confused about that yet and I've read quite a few pages of this thread. I mean it was kind of obvious since Naruto said "what? Sakura too?"

[YukiNozomi212]

huh? who didn't know that? I havent seen a single person who's been confused about that yet and I've read quite a few pages of this thread. I mean it was kind of obvious since Naruto said "what? Sakura too?"

 

no no, I knew those last lines were hers. that part was PLAIN obvious. I just missed the bubble of "Don't get in my way, Naruto" is all. I guess I was just too caught up in my baby kicking butt, that I've lost all sense of perception

 

EDIT: what I meant, is that I didn't know Sasuke was included in the conversation. Thought he was just being his usual kitten-faced self not giving a damn about the other two...

Edited by YukiNozomi212, 01 June 2013 - 11:55 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

 

 

 

You are both right but you also need to remember that what most off us have in common is her love for NS, so is Natural that some fans will look on the lent Naruto has gone for Sakura and the sacrifice he would do for her happiness but despite that Sakura not only see her teammate as equal in her mind Sasuke still has more influence on her character and Naruto only when she leans on him.

 

Naruto was the one who pick her up from her depressed self with his determination to saves Sasuke that pushes her to go for Tsunade's help.

 

1. Is nice that she wants to be equal to both guys but at some point I want her to thank Naruto just like when Naruto thanked Hinata , I want Sakura to tell Naruto that she believes in him, thank him for being there for her, thank him for believing in her 631 last panel, thank him for trying to help Sasuke and restore the Team. Not that all she will do know is believe in them even that created some bashing to her character mostly because Sasuke just tried to kill her and bowed to destroy everything she holds dear.

 

If Kishi would simple insert in her flash back her being thankful because of Naruto's determination she didn't give up that would of kill any negative thought any other fan would want to create after the chapter, since most of them were about asspull and Sakura giving Naruto the middle finger, and NH saying that he had it coming after what he did to Hinata.

 

Has a NS, Sakura and Naruto fan, I hate that bc of this pairing crap Kishi refuses to have Sakura acknowledge Naruto for all what he has done and help her accomplish with his inspiration despite the fact that he can do it in a non pairing way.

2. The fact that Naruto needed to remind her that he was also there make most of the non Team 7, Sasuke, and SS fans annoyed, at this stage after Sai's revelation, Summit arc, 573, and 630 Kishi should never insert a joke like that one just to bring back Team 7 nostalgic feelings, it felt  forced and like him throwing all their history under the rug to please a group of fans.

 

I know some of you are Sasuke fans and nothing is wrong with that, but I really wish this behavior would take place after Sasuke commit himself to be their friends genuinely, show some sorriness for his behavior, because after all the kitten he has done to both of them, saying he doesn't care what they think, he wants to be Hokage knowing that this is Naruto long time dream them asking Naruto to stay of his way, only implies bad writing.

 

God I know this moment was great for SS, Sasuke fans, for us Sakura fans and you Team 7 fans, but please don't go showing your disappointment when we all know Sasuke background and his current behavior still ask questions.

About Bolded 1. I don't know what this has to do with my previous post. But I will reply in any case. Both Naruto and Sakura haven't said "Thank you" to each other for being there with each other. Naruto has always protected Sakura, but Sakura has done the same. Naruto has always cheered for Sakura, and Sakura has done the same for him. They show their trust and acknowledgement towards each other by actions. I don't know why Sakura is the only guilty one here by not putting them into words. Also, as long as the actions prove it, I don't find why the "putting into words" are so important. (Maybe this might be cultural difference but I find words to be overrated. )

 

About Bolded 2. You're making whole lot of a bigger deal of that joke than it actually is. Could you please explain to me what makes people so annoyed that Sakura called Sasuke's name first, only because he appeared first? What do you expect Sakura to do when Sasuke appeared next to her after rescuing her? Call him Naruto? But he's not Naruto. Ignore him? That's not how Team 7 interacts. Remember, Naruto and Sakura has put aside their past conflicts with Sasuke and decided to work as Team 7 again, for the sake of getting rid of a common enemy. Therefore showing a typical Team 7 moment.

 

And I agree with you that Naruto and Sakura deciding to fight together with Sasuke, as if nothing has happened in the past, doesn't sit well with me either. Wish this could have happened after Sasuke showed some redeeming qualities. 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 01 June 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[HauntedCake]

She's not a pairing fodder but i can easily say that she's the character who is the romance subplot of this manga, she got more development on terms of romance than this acknowledgement issue, she resolved that on this chapter, but the romance issue got the biggest part of her character that's for sure.

 

About the bolded, to help Naruto bring Sasuke back since she swore that they would bring him back together.

Bolded: This is what i meant to say, think i may of been a little primitive in how i said it.

 

I don't believe she's pairing fodder at all, just that her development is based mostly on the two boys and how she feels about them both.

 

Anyway i appreciate you lashing out on me without giving me a chance to defend myself, always good to know i can voice an opinion here with fellow NS fans without being lashed at... thanks

Edited by HauntedCake, 01 June 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[六道仙人]

Well, I read again the chapter, this time from the raw japanese.
I noticed two peculiarities about that final statement from Sakura (when she said "Yes! If you're keeping to grumble with these trifles I'll seize the position of Hokage!!").

1)If you zoom it in, you'll notice how her position's eyes is exactly drawn. Kishimoto has drawn her eyes towards to her left where there's Naruto.



In fact, if you go to the following panel (where Sakura says "This time we will go back to back!"), Kishimoto focus on her face and we can clearly see how her pupils are positioned: drawn to her left, or rather towards Naruto.

2)When Naruto arrives at her left side saying "Errrr... I'm here too...Sakura-chan!" in a tone a bit jealous maybe, Sasuke replies him "Don't stand in my way, Naruto!". Some people thought that statement from Sakura was referring to that's Sasuke but it isn't so because it wouldn't make sense that Sakura was agreeing with Sasuke about to tell Naruto to stand himself off.

So in conclusion, Sakura was speaking to Naruto in both final panels.

Hope I was clear about this ^^"

[NS4Life]

So Sakura was talking to both of them when she said she would take the Hokage seat or is that a bad translation?

If she is talking to both, Sakura and Naruto are very forgiving and trusting people. I wouldn't think she would be ok with Sasuke being Hokage.

[六道仙人]

So Sakura was talking to both of them when she said she would take the Hokage seat or is that a bad translation?

If she is talking to both, Sakura and Naruto are very forgiving and trusting people. I wouldn't think she would be ok with Sasuke being Hokage.

 

I believe that she was talking to Naruto since in the raw she doesn't specified both... If you read my second point, you'll undestand why I think that she was speaking to Naruto, non to both...

[NS4Life]

I believe that she was talking to Naruto since in the raw she doesn't specified both... If you read my second point, you'll undestand why I think that she was speaking to Naruto, non to both...

Thank you.

[ramenanmitsu]

Bolded: This is what i meant to say, think i may of been a little primitive in how i said it.

 

I don't believe she's pairing fodder at all, just that her development is based mostly on the two boys and how she feels about them both.

 

Anyway i appreciate you lashing out on me without giving me a chance to defend myself, always good to know i can voice an opinion here with fellow NS fans without being lashed at... thanks

I was responding to your quote below. Didn't you mean what you said below? 

If the below words weren't really what you meant, and you felt offended with the way I replied to you, then I apologize. Sorry. 

 

90% of her entire development is romance based between Naruto and Sasuke.　

 

This is why who shes ends up with is very important because that single choice will reflect her development and her maturity.

 

While I acknowledge that her character is the key to the romantic sub-plot, as I said in my previous posts, we pairing fans are the ones to intentionally center her character around romance. All her interactions with Naruto and Sasuke are automatically translated into pairing related stuff. But just because we pairing fans see all the interactions with pairing goggles, it doesn't mean that it's supposed to be a romantic moment. And it definitely doesn't make her development 90% about romance. Especially, when she herself has said time and again that her goal is to protect team seven. 

[HauntedCake]

I was responding to your quote below. Didn't you mean what you said below? 

If the below words weren't really what you meant, and you felt offended with the way I replied to you, then I apologize. Sorry. 

 

90% of her entire development is romance based between Naruto and Sasuke.　

 

This is why who shes ends up with is very important because that single choice will reflect her development and her maturity.

 

While I acknowledge that her character is the key to the romantic sub-plot, as I said in my previous posts, we pairing fans are the ones to intentionally center her character around romance. All her interactions with Naruto and Sasuke are automatically translated into pairing related stuff. But just because we pairing fans see all the interactions with pairing goggles, it doesn't mean that it's supposed to be a romantic moment. And it definitely doesn't make her development 90% about romance. Especially, when she herself has said time and again that her goal is to protect team seven. 

I'm sorry if i upset you with my comments earlier, i don't want to get into fights with people here because you all are nice people.

 

i dont have time to explain what i meant atm i will do later though

[ramenanmitsu]

I'm sorry if i upset you with my comments earlier, i don't want to get into fights with people here because you all are nice people.

 

i dont have time to explain what i meant atm i will do later though

No worries, I don't mean to fight either and if you're busy take your time 

[Nath0man]

uuhh... hey guys, I just reread the chapter for god knows how many times, and I just noticed something...

 

I don't know if you did too, but everyone seemed to confuse the conversation between Naruto and Sakura on that last page, where we thought the lines "Don't get in my way, Naruto" were said by Sakura along with her next lines... but apparently, it wasn't. I don't know, but please correct me if I'm wrong

 

apparently they were said by SASUKE, not Sakura.

 

and I just wanna know... does this somehow now change the meaning of the conversation and our standing as NS even for a little based on the translations by @ 天地長久  he posted here http://www.narusaku....=80#entry470869 now that we know it was actually Sasuke who said those lines, and was unfortunately included in the conversation rather than it being just Naruto and Sakura

 

but I apologize for my ignorance if this has already been obvious from the start and I was just slow to catch on...  

 

I actually thought it was Sakura that said that when I first read it and I was like. kitten sake Sakura. But it was Sasuke