This topic is locked
QUOTE (Shadow1275 @ Apr 15 2013, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Round 3 maybe? Oh well, still managed to power through that paper. Here we go:
But you’re forgetting how tough she is, which I proved in a couple posts back. Her toughness is what gave her the opportunity to analyze Sasori’s attacks to the point where she could dodge them. That is why you can’t say she has regressed in terms of her combat ability on one kick. If she could survive Sasori’s onslaught which included a Kazekage, there is no reason why had that fight continued she would be able to survive long enough against that cloud ninja to analyze her attacks.
As for her strength, she lifted a boulder off of Chiyo that was twice her size after the said Chiyo remark of Sakura being at her limit. The other thing is that according to Narutopedia, Tsunade’s chakra control allowed her to ” launch Gamabunta's tantō into the air and then guide it down right into Manda's mouth” http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsunade So make of it what you will.
We do agree though that the Chakra control strength is impressive and would allow her to stand against almost any opponent. All she needs is to hit her target which with her superior analysis skills would not be a problem.
Whether all of her friends did it or not is besides the point. Why did she shore up her emotions? Because of Naruto which she directly thinks in that panel I posted. That point still stands.
Therefore, emotionally in terms of Naruto she is strong and he gives her strength.
As for the hand-holding you’re forgetting three things:
1. Neji dies and Sakura gives Naruto a speech about his sacrifice??? That would make no sense and even I would be mad at Kishi for this. The only logical person for this is Hinata. She is the only other Hyuga who Naruto is friends with. Sakura giving the speech would be illogical.
2. 4 Edicts, you already know these
3. Hinata’s speech had no effect on Naruto. Now, I have already proved this to you, but for argument sake. Here, after she gives her speech, Naruto is pulled inside himself and says” I know but Neji is.” While he hangs his head down. Then the fox says, “if you are going to sulk like a little school girl.” These quotes prove that Hinata’s speech did nothing to make him feel better. http://www.onemanga....o_manga/615/13/
Then the fox says,”Have you forgotten? The moment you entered this world what your parents did without a moments hesitation what Neji has just done?” Comparing Neji’s sacrifice to his PARENTS’ sacrifice. http://www.onemanga....o_manga/615/13/
It is only after that Naruto specifically thinks, “Yeah that’s RIGHT.” And stops sulking. http://www.onemanga....o_manga/615/18/
Now you can have any opinion you want over this event, however the evidence shows without a doubt that Hinata was not able to influence Naruto overcoming Neji’s death. It was the Nine-Tailed fox comparing Neji’s and Naruto’s Parent’s sacrifices that made him overcome Neji’s death as proven above.
In other words Hinata failed to support him when he wavered.
In terms of what other Sakura fans think, every person is entitled to their own opinion. However, in debates, opinion does not have relevance, only facts. In terms of Tsunade and Sakura, yes she has not surpassed her yet that much is certain.
However, Sakura as Jiraiya put it is a Tsunade jr. What are Tsunade’s abilities? According to Narutopedia:
Incredible Strength- Sakura possesses this through chakra control in terms of impact, and to a lesser extent lifting objects.
Body pathway technique-This one is confusing because she used electricity to screw with Kabuto’s Nervous system, but for some reason this is never explicitly stated as med jutsu or lightning jutsu so it is a ?
Highly skilled in Evasion-Sakura possesses this
High tolerance for pain and stamina-Sakura has this
Katsuyu-This is also a question mark because we do not know if Sakura has signed the contract or not
Yin seal including strength of 100 and Creation Rebirth-Sakura does not possess this which prevents her from entering direct combat due to the four edicts
Chakra Scalpels-Sakura is a Med nin who has healed internal injuries and performed autopsy’s. She possesses this ability. Think of it like the Hyuga’s open fist style without Byagukan. Combined with the medical knowledge Sakura has, this is very deadly. Because you can’t strengthen your insides it doesn’t matter how strong you are, one shot to the heart or head and you’re done.
Incredible Chakra control-Sakura has this
Totaled up we have:
5 possesses
2 unknowns
And one lack of
Though Sakura has not surpassed Tsunade, she is not as far behind as people think.
Now as for the Land of Iron, jumping into a swimming pool and accepting that somebody you love is evil are two completely different things. Now, I have admitted two things:
1. She is weak in terms of Sasuke, this is her biggest character flaw
2. She did not succeed at killing him.
From the start, Kishi has shown that Sakura has no physical or mental effect on Sasuke. The only person who can affect him is Naruto. Even Kakashi had no effect on Sasuke. However, considering that she could not do it when she had the opportunity, what do you think it took her to get to that point? You don’t see the fact that she put a knife at his back and acknowledged that he was evil progress?
Here is what happened with Sakura fans in part 2. They assumed that because we did not get many panels of her thinking of Sasuke that she had gotten over him. However, they missed Kishi’s interview on her confession where he said that Sakura’s love for Sasuke is selfish and Naruto is close to her heart. In part 1, she could find no faults with him. In part 2, we are seeing[though incredibly slow] PROGRESS. This means she is becoming stronger emotionally, acknowledging that her love for Sasuke does not feel right. [540 great man]. And we have not seen any sort of fan-girling for her in all of part 2.
As for me judging her based on the future, this is simply not true. All of my arguments are backed up by evidence that has already happened. Her acknowledging that he is evil[Land of Iron arc] and her not thinking that he is a great man, clearly unhappy[540] imply that she realizes this is wrong and as Kishi put it-a selfish love. In part 1, to her Sasuke could do no wrong. She was his fan-girl. But now we see her acknowledge that he is not perfect. This Is Progress and a step in the right direction for her character, which was the point I made.
Now after debating this with you, I have to wonder if you aren’t being too critical of Sakura as a character. For example all it took was one kick for you to question her physical strength despite her flattening a zetsu, which once again survived a direct hit from Neji, in one punch. Or questioning her ability to kill Sasuke who possesses Mangekyo Sharingan and if killed by Sakura would have ruined the entire story. Especially since she had no development showing that she had fully overcome these feelings.
However, I believe that I have effectively defended Sakura’s character strength Emotionally and Physically and that it can be summed up like this:
Sakura is Physically a strong ninja who would take more than one kick to take down.
Sakura is an Emotionally complex character, who is making progress against her biggest weakness Sasuke, and is emotionally strong in terms of Naruto.
But you’re forgetting how tough she is, which I proved in a couple posts back. Her toughness is what gave her the opportunity to analyze Sasori’s attacks to the point where she could dodge them. That is why you can’t say she has regressed in terms of her combat ability on one kick. If she could survive Sasori’s onslaught which included a Kazekage, there is no reason why had that fight continued she would be able to survive long enough against that cloud ninja to analyze her attacks.
As for her strength, she lifted a boulder off of Chiyo that was twice her size after the said Chiyo remark of Sakura being at her limit. The other thing is that according to Narutopedia, Tsunade’s chakra control allowed her to ” launch Gamabunta's tantō into the air and then guide it down right into Manda's mouth” http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsunade So make of it what you will.
We do agree though that the Chakra control strength is impressive and would allow her to stand against almost any opponent. All she needs is to hit her target which with her superior analysis skills would not be a problem.
Whether all of her friends did it or not is besides the point. Why did she shore up her emotions? Because of Naruto which she directly thinks in that panel I posted. That point still stands.
Therefore, emotionally in terms of Naruto she is strong and he gives her strength.
As for the hand-holding you’re forgetting three things:
1. Neji dies and Sakura gives Naruto a speech about his sacrifice??? That would make no sense and even I would be mad at Kishi for this. The only logical person for this is Hinata. She is the only other Hyuga who Naruto is friends with. Sakura giving the speech would be illogical.
2. 4 Edicts, you already know these
3. Hinata’s speech had no effect on Naruto. Now, I have already proved this to you, but for argument sake. Here, after she gives her speech, Naruto is pulled inside himself and says” I know but Neji is.” While he hangs his head down. Then the fox says, “if you are going to sulk like a little school girl.” These quotes prove that Hinata’s speech did nothing to make him feel better. http://www.onemanga....o_manga/615/13/
Then the fox says,”Have you forgotten? The moment you entered this world what your parents did without a moments hesitation what Neji has just done?” Comparing Neji’s sacrifice to his PARENTS’ sacrifice. http://www.onemanga....o_manga/615/13/
It is only after that Naruto specifically thinks, “Yeah that’s RIGHT.” And stops sulking. http://www.onemanga....o_manga/615/18/
Now you can have any opinion you want over this event, however the evidence shows without a doubt that Hinata was not able to influence Naruto overcoming Neji’s death. It was the Nine-Tailed fox comparing Neji’s and Naruto’s Parent’s sacrifices that made him overcome Neji’s death as proven above.
In other words Hinata failed to support him when he wavered.
In terms of what other Sakura fans think, every person is entitled to their own opinion. However, in debates, opinion does not have relevance, only facts. In terms of Tsunade and Sakura, yes she has not surpassed her yet that much is certain.
However, Sakura as Jiraiya put it is a Tsunade jr. What are Tsunade’s abilities? According to Narutopedia:
Incredible Strength- Sakura possesses this through chakra control in terms of impact, and to a lesser extent lifting objects.
Body pathway technique-This one is confusing because she used electricity to screw with Kabuto’s Nervous system, but for some reason this is never explicitly stated as med jutsu or lightning jutsu so it is a ?
Highly skilled in Evasion-Sakura possesses this
High tolerance for pain and stamina-Sakura has this
Katsuyu-This is also a question mark because we do not know if Sakura has signed the contract or not
Yin seal including strength of 100 and Creation Rebirth-Sakura does not possess this which prevents her from entering direct combat due to the four edicts
Chakra Scalpels-Sakura is a Med nin who has healed internal injuries and performed autopsy’s. She possesses this ability. Think of it like the Hyuga’s open fist style without Byagukan. Combined with the medical knowledge Sakura has, this is very deadly. Because you can’t strengthen your insides it doesn’t matter how strong you are, one shot to the heart or head and you’re done.
Incredible Chakra control-Sakura has this
Totaled up we have:
5 possesses
2 unknowns
And one lack of
Though Sakura has not surpassed Tsunade, she is not as far behind as people think.
Now as for the Land of Iron, jumping into a swimming pool and accepting that somebody you love is evil are two completely different things. Now, I have admitted two things:
1. She is weak in terms of Sasuke, this is her biggest character flaw
2. She did not succeed at killing him.
From the start, Kishi has shown that Sakura has no physical or mental effect on Sasuke. The only person who can affect him is Naruto. Even Kakashi had no effect on Sasuke. However, considering that she could not do it when she had the opportunity, what do you think it took her to get to that point? You don’t see the fact that she put a knife at his back and acknowledged that he was evil progress?
Here is what happened with Sakura fans in part 2. They assumed that because we did not get many panels of her thinking of Sasuke that she had gotten over him. However, they missed Kishi’s interview on her confession where he said that Sakura’s love for Sasuke is selfish and Naruto is close to her heart. In part 1, she could find no faults with him. In part 2, we are seeing[though incredibly slow] PROGRESS. This means she is becoming stronger emotionally, acknowledging that her love for Sasuke does not feel right. [540 great man]. And we have not seen any sort of fan-girling for her in all of part 2.
As for me judging her based on the future, this is simply not true. All of my arguments are backed up by evidence that has already happened. Her acknowledging that he is evil[Land of Iron arc] and her not thinking that he is a great man, clearly unhappy[540] imply that she realizes this is wrong and as Kishi put it-a selfish love. In part 1, to her Sasuke could do no wrong. She was his fan-girl. But now we see her acknowledge that he is not perfect. This Is Progress and a step in the right direction for her character, which was the point I made.
Now after debating this with you, I have to wonder if you aren’t being too critical of Sakura as a character. For example all it took was one kick for you to question her physical strength despite her flattening a zetsu, which once again survived a direct hit from Neji, in one punch. Or questioning her ability to kill Sasuke who possesses Mangekyo Sharingan and if killed by Sakura would have ruined the entire story. Especially since she had no development showing that she had fully overcome these feelings.
However, I believe that I have effectively defended Sakura’s character strength Emotionally and Physically and that it can be summed up like this:
Sakura is Physically a strong ninja who would take more than one kick to take down.
Sakura is an Emotionally complex character, who is making progress against her biggest weakness Sasuke, and is emotionally strong in terms of Naruto.
totally agree, 100%!!! 
