3406 replies to this topic

[FoolishYoungling]

New chapter tomorrow or not?

@luffyq1: nice sig

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

New chapter tomorrow or not?

@luffyq1: nice sig

nope, only 16.

[HalfStarStudios]

People really love to over think things.

They surely do. xD

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

They surely do. xD

Some overthink but kishi loves foreshadowing and abuses of symbolism so in a certain point of view they are right.

[James S Cassidy]

People really love to over think things.

Really? Were people over thinking things when some said that Sakura's kunai was poisoned?

I am still trying to wrap my head around that one.

[mone_]

I don't think we should say that the the free hand means that Naruto was holding into Neji's memory cause the panel could just mean a view of his hand that is closing to the Juubi's figure like he'll take the Juubi down.

I also think those panels mean that Naruto will crush Juubi with his fists (literally or not). If it meant Naruto holding Neji's hand, we could've seen Neji lying in the background instead of Juubi. It's a matter of interpretation, though, so one cannot be sure.

[Nate River]

HAPPY NEW YEARS EVERYONE! XDDDD

I will admit that when I first read the chapter it made me think NH was canon but oddly enough I still have hope for NS - I'm just gonna be chill about this though because I don't think Kishi even understands how badly this chapter is making his manga out to be.

I agree with dl in that this chapter really isn't one that significantly dips the quality to place where it hasn't been. Every moment with Team Not Seven is worse for me and I still hope Karin isn't doing what I think she is. Sasuke's formation of a team and what he does after killing Itachi is mind boggling, especially given the purpose for their creation. How he handled Itachi post-resurrection, IMO, was also significantly worse.

I have problems with this chapter, as I have mentioned in other posts, namely, Naruto's reaction to Neji's death and Hinata's final thought at the end of the chapter.

I've been looking at Japanese posters on blogs and they don't seem pleased with this chapter at all. Because of Sakura's role so far and how poorly Kishi treated Neji. I wonder does he understand how impersonal he comes out with how he handled Neji's death? Everyone expects for an author to care about their characters, no matter who they are. If you're going to kill off a character, do it respectfully. It just seems like Neji was used in a poor attempt to scare us all into believing that this war is serious .

Neji deserved a better death BECAUSE of the fact that he was such a beloved character. Not only that but Kishi himself took time to develop Neji as a character period. Any character you create and then trash them just off a whim is disrespectful not only to his manga but to his readers too. Impersonal is the biggest word I can use to describe all of this. Cold-blooded too. Added on to the fact that you have Naruto and Hinata holding hands over his dead body and Hinata thinking about how big Naruto's hand is when her cousin just DIED for HER.

Shallow, immature and disrespectful.

I used to be the biggest Hinata fan but now I don't care at all for her. I blatantly dislike her now.

I hope NS happens more than ever now. Just to spite Hinata and also in my stupid hope that she will become more than just a girl pining to get in a guy's pants.

I would hope that's not his intent. It shouldn't take this long to establish that war is serious. Granted, to this point almost all the deaths had been recently introduced characters, were nameless and faceless, or were minor characters who were already dead. So, it was to make it personal to the audience and in some way, to the main cast. Inochi and Shikaku were supposed to be the start of that, but their death was implied and nearly off screen. And Inochi, in particular, had done little of note development wise other than being Ino's father.

If anything, I think it was partially an attempt to make it personal; both to the audience and to Naruto. Sakura and Kakashi (and even Shikamaru) would have all be better selections, but I don't think has any desire to kill them. I think Neji was chose because (1) his role was long since done, (2) though he was side character cannon fodder at this point, he was still a bit more ingrained to the audience than most of the causalities to date, (3) he had that earlier fight with Naruto, and (4) he was a convenient spoil because he still possessed the curse seal.

As to (1) and (4) I find it ludicrous that is largely being viewed as the completion of his character arc because that was done ages ago. Neji still possessed the mark, which raises a couple uncomfortable questions as to the main branch, but there is not one scene since his conversation with Hiashi where he is show still worried about, still acting as if he's bound by it, and no seen where any Hyuuga is using it to make him do anything. In terms of how the manga has portrayed it since, he basically been free since the Chunnin exams. Him choosing how to die demonstrates his freedom? If so, what he's being doing until now? It's not like he's been marching to someone else's orders this whole time. What about the other time he nearly got himself killed for Naruto?

However, since the cursed mark still remained it gave him room to do and say something significant besides keeling over and dying. It was also used because it was desired to mirror his father's death, but to really have viewed this as a completion would have required the mark to still be an issue, and for the last 500 chapters that has not once been the case. Neji needed more development along the way to really make something of this, kind of like what Shika has gotten.

As to the questions this raises: (1) Can the mark be removed by the main branch? If so, then why does he still have it? (2) If it cannot, I have to wonder what Naruto really accomplished because then whatever the Neji and his family gained is completely dependent upon the Main branch upholding Hiashi's change of heart. Otherwise, that seal is still sitting over their heads ready to used at anytime.

I think the primary he was offed now had more to do with Obito making his point rather than setting up the NH action. I would hope so at least because killing Neji wasn't necessary to making the NHt part happen. Obito is such a clear talk-no-jutsu candidate, but he's such an unbelievable narcissist that I don't think he'll listen to Naruto until he is satisfied they occupy the same playing field. This is Obito's attempt to use "real-world" evidence to prove his point to Naruto and to later set-up talk-no-jutsu by defusing Obito's most obvious retort: you don't understand because you have experienced it like I have.

Like 573, I find it hard to believe he's secretly taking dumps on Hinata in scenes like this. That doesn't seem his style to me. If he's getting lots of negative reaction Japan (I'm simply assuming for the sake of argument you are correct, I'm not necessarily convinced it widespread) then I find it more likely the unintentional result of his writing than anything intentional on his part.

I will say, I agree with those unhappy about Hinata's last statement though. I don't think he means to convey a negative message about her, but dear lord, his refusal to let her leave Naruto's orbit for more than 15 seconds doesn't help the cause. I don't believe he craping on her with this, but he certainly doesn't help me make my point when she does things like that. Seriously, would it have diffused the nature of the scene to have her openly stand up to Obito like Naruto is doing rather than thinking about his hand?

3. His talk about acknowledgement to Naruto made me convinced his sense of love towards Rin was not as warped as we thought it is. Rin was basically the first person who saw him for who he is. Not because he's an Uchiha. I think, that was what kept Obito keep working so hard to improve his skills. He always considered himself as a failure to the clan. But it was because Rin never saw him as an Uchiha, that lifted his burdens. Thus, his attempt at always trying to impress her was so that he could prove himself to her that he was more than an Uchiha. Bottom line, he didn't care about proving himself as an Uchiha anymore, rather, he cared more about proving to Rin for the great person he is.

4. I'm getting more convinced that his dream world was to create a world for her and Kakashi. Even if he killed Kakashi, I'd bet that he plans on reviving him and Rin with ET and Rinne Tensei. I kinda wonder if he made modifications to the plan by planning to sacrifice his life with Rinne Tensei to revive Rin and still be able to control the Genjutsu world even with him dead. Basically automating the system. This would fit in line with Naruto's selflessness. He'd give up his life so that Rin can be together with Kakashi forever without worrying about death.

If 3 & 4 is true, then my sympathies are justified.

So. uhhh....why is the rest of the world getting roped into this, again? And why did he let Kyuubi run amock (resulting in hundreds of deaths) over Konoha rather than release it and hauling ass with it while it was under his control?

Even if he is doing what you say, there is no justification for so much of what he has done and is currently trying to do. Your sympathies are misplaced.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

IMO Kishi won't go with NH from a story-telling point of view, because it implies SS, and that is a reversion to the patterns of the old.

His trend has always been to show GROWTH and CHANGE, especially for the main cast (i.e the younger generation.) You can see how Neji goes from being this hate-filled, angsty boy with a grudge against the Main House ranting against destiny to being willing to die for Hinata. Even Hinata herself, whether or not you like this chapter, he showed she is no longer so shy to the extent she can't even string a sentence to Naruto. It's the same thing, also in other characters like Tsunade (i.e from being a drunkard who refuses to care about Konoha to becoming Hokage) or Shikamaru (lazy, not wanting a troublesome life as a ninja to becoming a sort of de facto leader of the rookies taking on a lot of responsibilities.

If SS happens, then Team Seven looks EXACTLY like what it was in the first chapter...Naruto rejected by the girl he likes, Sakura still in love with Sasuke. There's no growth there, no difference to show the journey they've undertaken.

Couple of things: NH doesn't automatically mean SS. NH could happen and Sasuke could die without ever giving Sakura another tought. Or Sasuke will do what Kakashi did to Rin, say how undeserving he is of Sakura's love and reject her again. NH is something that helps SS considerably, but it's really not enough to make sure that SS happens.

I agree that Kishi has themes of growth and change. But. You are thinking it too narrowly. You only consider the romance of the characters in this post. Naruto and Sakura and team 7 have all changed. Sakura is not exactly the same person she was in ch 3, whether SS happens or not. Same for Naruto. They have both matured. Sakura has gone from disliking Naruto to one of his closest friends and supporters, for example. This is a growth and a change. Kishi doesn't need Sakura or Naruto to do a complete 180 to have their characters evolve. He can still retain some of the old elements of their characters. Sakura can retain her love for Sasuke. Naruto can retain his desire to protect his friends.

Extra points: Naruto remaining in love with Sakura is no change either. Naruto getting over Sakura is a change. Sasuke falling in love with Sakura is a change, too. So it's not exactly true that SS (& NH) would not change team 7 dynamic at all, is it?

Happy New Year, everybody.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

3. His talk about acknowledgement to Naruto made me convinced his sense of love towards Rin was not as warped as we thought it is. Rin was basically the first person who saw him for who he is. Not because he's an Uchiha. I think, that was what kept Obito keep working so hard to improve his skills. He always considered himself as a failure to the clan. But it was because Rin never saw him as an Uchiha, that lifted his burdens. Thus, his attempt at always trying to impress her was so that he could prove himself to her that he was more than an Uchiha. Bottom line, he didn't care about proving himself as an Uchiha anymore, rather, he cared more about proving to Rin for the great person he is.

4. I'm getting more convinced that his dream world was to create a world for her and Kakashi. Even if he killed Kakashi, I'd bet that he plans on reviving him and Rin with ET and Rinne Tensei. I kinda wonder if he made modifications to the plan by planning to sacrifice his life with Rinne Tensei to revive Rin and still be able to control the Genjutsu world even with him dead. Basically automating the system. This would fit in line with Naruto's selflessness. He'd give up his life so that Rin can be together with Kakashi forever without worrying about death.

If 3 & 4 is true, then my sympathies are justified.

Dont try to mirror Obito as Hinata, obito didnt do everthing for her, he may be seen as a failure but his reasons are his own, he wanted to surpass kakashi, and become stronger to impress rin, which is completely different on thinking on that person 24hrs or living in purpose of it.
Obito didnt got changed by someome his determination comes from himself with the "dont give up motto".

Obito wants to give up his life to create the world of peace that madara promised, why he would ressurrect rin, he does not need.

Couple of things: NH doesn't automatically mean SS. NH could happen and Sasuke could die without ever giving Sakura another tought. Or Sasuke will do what Kakashi did to Rin, say how undeserving he is of Sakura's love and reject her again. NH is something that helps SS considerably, but it's really not enough to make sure that SS happens.

I agree that Kishi has themes of growth and change. But. You are thinking it too narrowly. You only consider the romance of the characters in this post. Naruto and Sakura and team 7 have all changed. Sakura is not exactly the same person she was in ch 3, whether SS happens or not. Same for Naruto. They have both matured. Sakura has gone from disliking Naruto to one of his closest friends and supporters, for example. This is a growth and a change. Kishi doesn't need Sakura or Naruto to do a complete 180 to have their characters evolve. He can still retain some of the old elements of their characters. Sakura can retain her love for Sasuke. Naruto can retain his desire to protect his friends.

Extra points: Naruto remaining in love with Sakura is no change either. Naruto getting over Sakura is a change. Sasuke falling in love with Sakura is a change, too. So it's not exactly true that SS (& NH) would not change team 7 dynamic at all, is it?

Using your statement than Hinata getting over from Naruto is too a change.
NH means SS canon because Sakura is a romantic character 99% of the romance on Naruto comes from her, her interaction adn etc, i doubt she will have the same fate as her master.
Why he mentioned a change is because.

Obito and Rin failed, Jiraya and Tsunade failed, means that Naruto and Sakura will fail ? happening again, Naruto's dream is to become hokage, and make sakura love him which is stated on the last chapter of part 1.
The theme of the manga is "not give up" since part 1 is stated like this, and moreover what's the ending of a protagonist with the theme not give up is?
"He accomplish everything" but does not mean that everyone will get what their want.

So Naruto should give up on his dream to become hokage? so it certainly will be a change, or more Naruto should give up to Obito it would be a nice change.
Everything is set up for a great love story of Naruto and Sakura, he did everything, mirrored his parents with Narusaku, make Sakura little by little understand Naruto, and make Sakura have doubts about her true feelings, he made Sakura give up on Sasuke if it would mean that Naruto's burden be lifted.
Sakura's behavior towards Naruto is selfless, completely different than Hinata, which pratically live for Naruto.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Using your statement than Hinata getting over from Naruto is too a change.

Exactly. It is probably literally impossible for Kishi to change everything so that nothing is the way it was in the start. So that's why arguing that a pairing, for example SS, can't happen because that "would not change anything" is not a very good argument.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Exactly. It is probably literally impossible for Kishi to change everything so that nothing is the way it was in the start. So that's why arguing that a pairing, for example SS, can't happen because that "would not change anything" is not a very good argument.

it will change for worse, like throwing Sakura's development in a trash can and her becoming what she was on part 1.
She's the main heroine of the story on (kishi's words).
She's too good to deserve someome like Sasuke here's the deal that's why Rin got rejected by Kakashi that why the chance of Sasuke rejecting Sakura is over nine thousand and this is one of the reasons why i do believe she will be with Naruto.

Her character set-up, personality, influence, facial expressions, tsundere factor towards the main hero, character conception,background.
I think the author when he writes a manga he already has the begining and the ending clear on his mind.

And moreover not ending which Sakura means that Naruto lose to Sasuke, his rivalry with Sasuke is just about it.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[Nostradamus]

Ok so Happy New Year to all. Pretty soon I'll make a small rant to explain my beef with this chapter.

@sushi you asked me if I'm nostradamus from youtube, the answer is no.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

And moreover not ending which Sakura means that Naruto lose to Sasuke, his rivalry with Sasuke is just about it.

I think you are mistaken in this. NaruSasu rivalry was never originally about Sakura. Naruto wanted to be beat Sasuke in everything, including getting the girl. But the root cause for their rivalry was Naruto not being able to admit that all he ever really wanted was to be Sasuke's friend. http://www.mangapand...hapter-485.html (Also he says this in the Sasuke Retrieval arc but I can't remember in which chapter.) Also Naruto hasn't for a long time really competed with Sasuke. Naruto loves Sasuke, maybe more than anyone else, but that's just my own opinion, of course. Naruto wants to help Sasuke, is willing to die to be with him. Their rivalry was just one part of their bond, and nowadays Naruto is concentrating on the friendship part of their bond. There is no way Naruto will try to destroy SS, if it happens. He will be extremely happy for his two close friends, instead. He will not sulk in the corner because he "lost to Sasuke".

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think you are mistaken in this. NaruSasu rivalry was never originally about Sakura. Naruto wanted to be beat Sasuke in everything, including getting the girl. But the root cause for their rivalry was Naruto not being able to admit that all he ever really wanted was to be Sasuke's friend. http://www.mangapand...hapter-485.html (Also he says this in the Sasuke Retrieval arc but I can't remember in which chapter.) Also Naruto hasn't for a long time really competed with Sasuke. Naruto loves Sasuke, maybe more than anyone else, but that's just my own opinion, of course. Naruto wants to help Sasuke, is willing to die to be with him. Their rivalry was just one part of their bond, and nowadays Naruto is concentrating on the friendship part of their bond. There is no way Naruto will try to destroy SS, if it happens. He will be extremely happy for his two close friends, instead. He will not sulk in the corner because he "lost to Sasuke".

http://www.narusaku....showtopic=12356
his jeaslously comes from the fact Sakura was always looking at Sasuke and Naruto wanted to "prove" that he was stronger than Sasuke it comes from his memories the manga chapter i do not remember of but other fellow Ns members can post it here.
Even kishimoto says himself when he created Sakura that she was the main reason for why the rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke started.
I disagree with the bolded one he didnt looked happy when Sakura hugged Sasuke, and neither looked happy when she make Naruto promise that he would bring Sasuke back.
He may be selfless but he's not a robot, he's a sentimental guy.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

http://www.narusaku....showtopic=12356
his jeaslously comes from the fact Sakura was always looking at Sasuke and Naruto wanted to "prove" that he was stronger than Sasuke it comes from his memories the manga chapter i do not remember of but other fellow Ns members can post it here.

It's chapter 538. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/538/6 Naruto just thinks that if he will beat Sasuke, he will get to be the popular guy.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

It's chapter 538. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/538/6 Naruto just thinks that if he will beat Sasuke, he will get to be the popular guy.

wow --Click here to view--

]

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

And the chapter where Naruto explains the rivalry in the Sasuke retrieval is ch 227. http://www.mangapand...hapter-227.html Not remembering it bothered me so much I had to search it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And the chapter where Naruto explains the rivalry in the Sasuke retrieval is ch 227. http://www.mangapand...hapter-227.html Not remembering it bothered me so much I had to search it.

wow2 --Click here to view--

she was the main reason for why the rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke started.

the rivalry become a matter of surpassing him, she's one of the reasons, what he stated is the reasons why he want to save Sasuke, he seems Sasuke as an equal, because he seems Sasuke as what he could be.
He seemed Sasuke as a rival because of Sakura and his skills, but liked him because he was the same as Naruto, his loneliness, created an empathy.
Note that "save" does not mean bring Sasuke back to the village he never said that after the confession arc.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[AzureWaters]

Happy New years






Also we need to take note on the way Naruto is holding Hinata's hand.

This is a Romantic way --Click here to view--

This is the way or you hold someone in a romantic way, the way Naruto and Hinata hold hands was not the same.

Eh, the hands don't have to be intertwined to be romantic.

Your post reminded me of something:

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/600/10

http://mangastream.c...uto/26074227/18

Basically the same thing. I guess intertwined is more intimate, but both ways can have a romantic context.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Eh, the hands don't have to be intertwined to be romantic.

Your post reminded me of something:

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/600/10

http://mangastream.c...uto/26074227/18

Basically the same thing. I guess intertwined is more intimate, but both ways can have a romantic context.

Not basically the same thing.
One was a thank you and the other was a goodbye.
both with different contexts.
the second is sad and tragic.

wow3 --Click here to view--

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 06:18 PM.