3406 replies to this topic

[mone_]

I remember a few years back when I realized shippings and fandoms on the internet, I was excited and happy. Like "So cool! I can talk with other people about Naruto now!" But the dark days came ... the day I realized the hardcore shipping fandoms SS/NH and Hinata fanbase. I recall how shocked I was at Hinata's ridiculous popularity. IMO she wasn't that interesting or lovable yet her fanbase worships every little thing she does and idolizes her, glorifying every aspect of her to the extreme and making her seem perfect. My exact thought was something along the lines of this: "I don't get this. Why is Hinata so popular? She's not that great, especially as great as people say." To this day, I still don't understand it and don't think I ever will.

Maybe that's always so why I don't like Hinata. Most of her fanbase is so illogical and extreme, it's hard for me to like her. Especially because I don't see her nearly as perfect as they do.

TOTALLY. SAME. HERE.

I hadn't cared for Hinata AT ALL until I discovered her fandom. She's objectively not as divine as her fans tell us all. And not only tell, some rabit hinatards even go as far as threatening everyone "who dares badmouth Hinata-hime" (in general, not really quoting someone). Facing such unfounded glorification of a character automatically makes me want to point out all her bad traits and that's why I always see the negative in her. Can't help it, she's really boring and shallow as a puddle.

As a good writer, Kishi could NOT pair such a poor, underdeveloped character with the hero - Naruto.

[redragon88]

I was watching a Sawyer7mage video that said that unless Kishimoto is a giant troll the pairing issue is pretty much over.

What hurt is that I have enjoyed a lot of his review in the past. I would understand if he said that now NH has a high possibility given the flow of latest chapter, but to say that NH not happening would mean a big troll just lets me know he has a good level of bias.

But then again it's my own fault for thinking he could try to be neutral. That's not to say he doesn't have a right to have bias, everyone has some, even if a little. Each of us have certain preferences and will judge the quality of the story according to if those preferences are fulfilled or not.

For example, he was completely devastated when Tobi was revealed to be Obito. I couldn't understand why he took it so hard back then, but then I remembered how he had a lot of elaborate theories on what could Tobi's identity be. I guess seeing those ideas crushed can take a toll on anyone.

He has a huge liking of Hinata, and I think he mentioned once that that way Hinata loved Naruto appealed to him, which I guess is the reason he prefers it to happen. I suppose given his preference he wouldn't want to consider that possibility that this chapter was just actually just for Hinata's own development, and not to make NH canon.

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash him or anything. I still enjoy a good amount of his reviews and he can give good insight from time to time. He has the right to have his own interpretation of the story. It's just that given he's an aspiring writer I thought he could at least take some other elements into consideration before declaring that the pairing issues are done with.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I was watching a Sawyer7mage video that said that unless Kishimoto is a giant troll the pairing issue is pretty much over.

What hurt is that I have enjoyed a lot of his review in the past. I would understand if he said that now NH has a high possibility given the flow of latest chapter, but to say that NH not happening would mean a big troll just lets me know he has a good level of bias.

But then again it's my own fault for thinking he could try to be neutral. That's not to say he doesn't have a right to have bias, everyone has some, even if a little. Each of us have certain preferences and will judge the quality of the story according to if those preferences are fulfilled or not.

For example, he was completely devastated when Tobi was revealed to be Obito. I couldn't understand why he took it so hard back then, but then I remembered how he had a lot of elaborate theories on what could Tobi's identity be. I guess seeing those ideas crushed can take a toll on anyone.

He has a huge liking of Hinata, and I think he mentioned once that that way Hinata loved Naruto appealed to him, which I guess is the reason he prefers it to happen. I suppose given his preference he wouldn't want to consider that possibility that this chapter was just actually just for Hinata's own development, and not to make NH canon.

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash him or anything. I still enjoy a good amount of his reviews and he can give good insight from time to time. He has the right to have his own interpretation of the story. It's just that given he's an aspiring writer I thought he could at least take some other elements into consideration before declaring that the pairing issues are done with.

He's biased over nine thousand, i watched one of his videos and i almost got cancer.
I just cant understand the NH fandom, Slextream video is a nice example of it, she did a video with good points some were wrong but the way that NH replied.
Srsly, instead of trying to refute some of her points he just went using illogical fallacies and double standards, if i were a NF user i would have scolded him with the truth.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[fireandice]

IMO Kishi won't go with NH from a story-telling point of view, because it implies SS, and that is a reversion to the patterns of the old.

His trend has always been to show GROWTH and CHANGE, especially for the main cast (i.e the younger generation.) You can see how Neji goes from being this hate-filled, angsty boy with a grudge against the Main House ranting against destiny to being willing to die for Hinata. Even Hinata herself, whether or not you like this chapter, he showed she is no longer so shy to the extent she can't even string a sentence to Naruto. It's the same thing, also in other characters like Tsunade (i.e from being a drunkard who refuses to care about Konoha to becoming Hokage) or Shikamaru (lazy, not wanting a troublesome life as a ninja to becoming a sort of de facto leader of the rookies taking on a lot of responsibilities.

If SS happens, then Team Seven looks EXACTLY like what it was in the first chapter...Naruto rejected by the girl he likes, Sakura still in love with Sasuke. There's no growth there, no difference to show the journey they've undertaken.

Edited by fireandice, 01 January 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

IMO Kishi won't go with NH from a story-telling point of view, because it implies SS, and that is a reversion to the patterns of the old.

His trend has always been to show GROWTH and CHANGE, especially for the main cast (i.e the younger generation.) You can see how Neji goes from being this hate-filled, angsty boy with a grudge against the Main House ranting against destiny to being willing to die for Hinata. Even Hinata herself, whether or not you like this chapter, he showed she is no longer so shy to the extent she can't even string a sentence to Naruto. It's the same thing, also in other characters like Tsunade (i.e from being a drunkard who refuses to care about Konoha to becoming Hokage) or Shikamaru (lazy, not wanting a troublesome life as a ninja to becoming a sort of de facto leader of the rookies taking on a lot of responsibilities.

If SS happens, then Team Seven looks EXACTLY like what it was in the first chapter...Naruto rejected by the girl he likes, Sakura still in love with Sasuke. There's no growth there, no difference to show the journey they've undertaken.

Yep this, and moreover Naruto would fail like Obito and Jiraya again.

[redragon88]

IMO Kishi won't go with NH from a story-telling point of view, because it implies SS, and that is a reversion to the patterns of the old.

His trend has always been to show GROWTH and CHANGE, especially for the main cast (i.e the younger generation.) You can see how Neji goes from being this hate-filled, angsty boy with a grudge against the Main House ranting against destiny to being willing to die for Hinata. Even Hinata herself, whether or not you like this chapter, he showed she is no longer so shy to the extent she can't even string a sentence to Naruto. It's the same thing, also in other characters like Tsunade (i.e from being a drunkard who refuses to care about Konoha to becoming Hokage) or Shikamaru (lazy, not wanting a troublesome life as a ninja to becoming a sort of de facto leader of the rookies taking on a lot of responsibilities.

If SS happens, then Team Seven looks EXACTLY like what it was in the first chapter...Naruto rejected by the girl he likes, Sakura still in love with Sasuke. There's no growth there, no difference to show the journey they've undertaken.

This post is... PERFECT!!!

[Don-kun]

Happy New years

Here's the raw of the chapter



let's go = 行きましょう

Correct me if i'm wrong he did say hinata? - 日向/ひなた
or it's just "let's go".

Happy new year.

This is thee part where he was referring to Neji, if you notice he is holding his hand in the same manner of a person holding a real person.

Also we need to take note on the way Naruto is holding Hinata's hand.

This is a Romantic way --Click here to view--

This is the way or you hold someone in a romantic way, the way Naruto and Hinata hold hands was not the same.

Edited by Don-kun, 01 January 2013 - 12:35 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Happy New years



This is the way or you hold someone in a romantic way, the way Naruto and Hinata hold hands was not the same.

It depends on the situation did you noticed that
Hinata didnt blush when Naruto grab her hand.

This is enough proof that the aspect was for hinata's development not a romantic moment.

@the quality of kishimoto's drawing is decreasing dont know why.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[redragon88]

@Don-kun

So while Naruto was holding Hinata's hand he extended the other to symbolize holding Neji's hand and indicating he wouldn't let go of his bond with him even if he was dead?

I remember that NH fan that wrote the pro-NS essay also mentioning the same thing. Do you agree with her then?

[Zatheko]

First of all, Happy year to you!

Then I come to the point here. Now while I'm reading Uchu Kyodai (a beautiful manga about the space, I recommend it you) and I hit on a panel. (the story talk about two brothers who are pursuing the same dream). Notice whay says the main character in the first two panel...

http://www.mangapand...u-kyoudai/47/11

Funny, isn't?

And they say that embracing people in Japan is just a fraternal move. But I think that those panel just prove that japanese culture is different from us.

SPACE BROTHERS, least thats what the anime is called, I watch that on crunchyroll and it's awesome

But yeah I believe you're right about japanese culture being different.

@don-kun yeah that's true, if it was a romantic hand holding it would look something like that.

So while Naruto was holding Hinata's hand he extended the other to symbolize holding Neji's hand and indicating he wouldn't let go of his bond with him even if he was dead?

It seems that way to me, otherwise it wouldn't do three panels just for his FREE hand.

Edited by zatheko, 01 January 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@Don-kun

So while Naruto was holding Hinata's hand he extended the other to symbolize holding Neji's hand and indicating he wouldn't let go of his bond with him even if he was dead?

I remember that NH fan that wrote the pro-NS essay also mentioning the same thing. Do you agree with her then?

It was because the editor's note that said "i'll never let go of that hand" he said that it was neji's hand which symbolized his memory that Naruto would not let it go.
He didnt interpretaded as the NH who interpretated as "naruto will never let hinata's hand go".

[candycane-chan]

I can't believe that I missed the panels with naruto holding the hand of neji's ghost. This changes a lot of things. Now I'm almost sure that there was nothing romantic from naruto's side because he did the same with neji( ummm..almost).
that is IF naruto was really holding neji's hand and not just changing mode.

Edited by candycane-chan, 01 January 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Gravenimage]

I kind of missed that panel. So if Naruto's holding Hinata's hand it symbolizes holding Neji's ghost meaning he will never let go of his memory. Sounds a bit biased but I do know it wasn't a romantic NH moment but a Hinata moment which is very different.

[Codus N]

I actually like Obito too for some reason. I find it very unrealistic that he went crazy because the girl he loved died but it also symbolizes how children like Sasuke can be so easily broken by war. I unwillingly sympathize with him a little and I find his villain status growing on my a bit by every chapter. Really weird but that's what happened. Those damn flashbacks. xD

I never said he was one of my favorite characters. And no, I would NEVER in a million years excuse the actions he did. They are absolutely despicable in every possible way and he deserves to die. I just have this really weird nonsensical sympathy for him. Can't explain it, I know it's stupid but there it is.

Yes, there is clearly something wrong with me and how I don't completely hate his guts. xD As I said before:

THOSE DAMN FLASHBACKS! THEY MADE ME PITY HIM! WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME, KISHI!!!

Happy New Year!

Heh, I love Obito too. His quality of villainy hasn't dropped in my eyes either. The way he talked about Naruto being acknowledged by his friends and him torturing Naruto mentally might even be better than Pain's Hannibal Lecture. Not only that, I always knew that he had some ulterior motive other than the Moon's Eye Plan. The previous chapters proved it to me.

1. He was planning to screw Madara from the beginning.

2. His cockiness to Madara basically saying "go kitten yourself" was one of my favorite moments followed by his Hannibal Lecture towards Naruto.

3. His talk about acknowledgement to Naruto made me convinced his sense of love towards Rin was not as warped as we thought it is. Rin was basically the first person who saw him for who he is. Not because he's an Uchiha. I think, that was what kept Obito keep working so hard to improve his skills. He always considered himself as a failure to the clan. But it was because Rin never saw him as an Uchiha, that lifted his burdens. Thus, his attempt at always trying to impress her was so that he could prove himself to her that he was more than an Uchiha. Bottom line, he didn't care about proving himself as an Uchiha anymore, rather, he cared more about proving to Rin for the great person he is.

4. I'm getting more convinced that his dream world was to create a world for her and Kakashi. Even if he killed Kakashi, I'd bet that he plans on reviving him and Rin with ET and Rinne Tensei. I kinda wonder if he made modifications to the plan by planning to sacrifice his life with Rinne Tensei to revive Rin and still be able to control the Genjutsu world even with him dead. Basically automating the system. This would fit in line with Naruto's selflessness. He'd give up his life so that Rin can be together with Kakashi forever without worrying about death.

If 3 & 4 is true, then my sympathies are justified.

Yeah, which is why I brought up the V for Vendetta thing. It is a similar principle.

It is also similar to what I call "Hero wore-shipping" where a girl will "fall in love" with the hero because he saved her life, not because she likes him that way.

Sadly, this is hard to tell with Hinata. Hinata has not been around Naruto enough to make that kind of judgement call. If she loves him despite his own flaws as a human being, then she would be in love with the man. If she loves him just because he is hero, then she loves the idea.



You pretty much summed up what I think.

You pretty much summed up what I think. (throwing that back at ya )

[T XD]

I don't think we should say that the the free hand means that Naruto was holding into Neji's memory cause the panel could just mean a view of his hand that is closing to the Juubi's figure like he'll take the Juubi down.

[AzureWaters]

What panel are you talking about? In that RAW Naruto closed his other hand into a fist in order to change modes. He's only holding Hinata's hand.

[T XD]

What panel are you talking about? In that RAW Naruto closed his other hand into a fist in order to change modes. He's only holding Hinata's hand.

The three panels of Naruto's free hand, an assumption that it could mean holding into Neji's memory and not letting go.
Though, I don't think we should take it into much consideration in that way cause it could mean also what I said in my last post, just showing that he's going to take down the Juubi.

Edited by T XD, 01 January 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[redragon88]

What panel are you talking about? In that RAW Naruto closed his other hand into a fist in order to change modes. He's only holding Hinata's hand.

We're discussing that maybe the way Naruto held his hand before closing it was meant to symbolize him not letting go of the bond he has with the people that already died, which would include Neji. Hence the reason the editor's note for "Never letting go of that hand" what put in the panels of Naruto holding out his empty hand.

Of course, that just pure speculation on our part as of now.

[luffyq1]

People really love to over think things.

Edited by luffyq1, 01 January 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

People really love to over think things.

Yeah, that Nh guy thought like that but the foces was on juubi, but this has two interpretations if we follow the editor's note then the first panel of Naruto's hand is about he holding Neji then he closes the hand and starts his bijuu's mode transformation.
The second interpretations was nothing it was just focusing th Juubi on the background, the focus was on naruto's hand not the one it's holding and therefore since Hinata didnt blush does not make a romantic moment.

I'm concerned about the next chapter, i dont want hinata to fight alongside Naruto as a hero and heroine srsly there was only one fight that Naruto and Sakura fought alongside each other and it was on the second bell's test against kakashi.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 January 2013 - 02:22 PM.