31720 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Even if burito get serialization, I doubt kishi will write it. Someone will take over it. If not that already happen.
I think kishi next project is seinen.

If that happens, it will die out, especially if Naruto isn't made by Kishi. Regardless that he's a hack, people wants to stick by the original maker.

[Swagkura]

Yeah, well, that requires Kishi actually put effort, let alone female character. It's doomed if it goes on more than one arc, so thank god this is one time.

Yup, it's pretty much guaranteed that Salad will be designated love interest who gets put on the sidelines, than baby maker to provide for the next generation. Poor girl never had a chance to begin with. Himawari's even more worse off, since she's the least relevant character from Part 3, and she's actually the main characters daughter -____-

[HuskyLover]

I was hoping the last would have all four teams =sand sibs fighting some powerful enemy, so that we could see what changed after two years.

 

....Then we got a sh*tty shoujo imitation love story.

 

Based on what I saw in the very first teaser, that was what I was expecting as well 

[tricksie]

 

Tricksie, you nailed it. I know that in the long run for my fanfic, I want to be able to try to resolve this, though I worry too much of doing what Kishimoto-sensei did and trying too hard to have some empathy and "rewarding" Sasuke for his decisions. I figure that the best approach is to show there likely were some others in the clan besides Itachi and Shisui who didn't like the idea of the coup, and that the Curse of Hatred could have been written as stemming from Madara, given he began the Uchiha Clan's hate of the Hidden Leaf since he was obviously bitter he wasn't made Hokage when he felt he was more deserving of it due to his blood and Kekkei Genkai. Not to mention we never knew if he finished off Izuna when Tobirama fatally wounded him, considering he REFUSED to a truce when Izuna suggested it, and given Madara's hate for weakness and the Senju, why wouldn't he kill his brother to carry on the cycle of hate he was born into?!

 

This is another reason Naruto was so wasted! X_X Nothing really got resolved because Studio Pierrot stuck their hands in the cookie jar and wanted to reward Hinata, or Kishimoto-sensei, or whatever the FUCK happened!!!

 

Yes! That's exactly what I think! There is so much more in the Uchiha background that Kishimoto could have explored! One dA artist I like even theorized that Mito Uzumaki was the last wedge between Hashirama and Madara...because Madara secretly loved her, and even wooed her, but lost out to Hashirama. A love rivalry that would ultimately cast long shadows over the power-struggle to come. How awesome would that backstory have been to read in the manga!?!

 

There's Madara's brother and Shisui and Itachi's lover...little hints that there were many Uchiha who were not crazy, power-hungry people, but who gave selflessly to their clan. A little digging could have unearthed much greater stories than what we were given!

 

And what about the Uchiha who didn't activate their sharingan?!? Why did they have to die??

 

There was so much more to the Uchiha story. Instead of dragging out the war, Kishimoto should have delved into the backgrounds of Uchiha and Uzumaki clans for the resolution. Even if it still ended NH, it would have been a much more satisfying manga to read. Instead it felt like filler for 5 years, with a kick-in-the-teeth ending.

 

That's certainly true. I guess it's to be expected since the story is seemingly written from Sakura's pov. I'm hoping that he'll incorporate things from Naruto's side of things, like his view on the political pressure, as well as his treatment by Sakura in the last and at the end of the manga. 

 

You raise good points, a lot of what Kishi never did was out of handicap set by Itachi's characterization, he was almost held hostage by Itachi being the good guy. 

 

Personally, I liked "good guy" Itachi, I enjoy characters such as him, Minato, Obito, Jiraya, Hashirama, Naruto etc. that acknowledge that they are failures in some respect, and acknowledged that they had flaws. I enjoyed Itachi doing what was best for his village because he believed in the village. One of the things I lamented though, was that it was stated Itachi loved Konoha, but it was never really shown why. I think it was a mistake to show Itachi doing his duty, but not showing his motivations for doing it.

 

Yes, you're so right. It's like Kishimoto's reluctance to challenge Itachi or Sasuke or Naruto just held the story hostage. Instead of elaborating on their struggles and forcing them to overcome the hurdles in their story arcs, Kishimoto just created new characters, gave them a back story to fight against, then moved on to the next character/set of fights. And though I always expected him to come back around to Naruto or Sasuke or fully explain the events of the beginning of the manga (like the massacre), Kishimoto took the easy way out. He never did.

 

It's like Kishimoto pulled the bait-and-switch ending that was Hinata-fest just all to distract fans from the fact that he bailed on the ENTIRE story.

 

I get what you're saying about 'good guy' Itachi. I think I would have liked Itachi as a good guy much more if it wasn't so forced. If Itachi wasn't painted as a ultimate savior, and now his crimes are just forgotten. I would have liked for him to have stayed somewhat edgy and dangerous and knowing that he is caught as a pawn in someone else's game. I would have liked for his treatment of Sasuke to have been authentic — like he looked back at that time and realizes he really was crazy, not just that he was screwing with Sasuke's mind because it was part of some master plan. And maybe he could admit that there was something in the sharingan that made Uchiha's crazy - that would tie in nicely with the sharingan sickness that was dropped as well as Itachi's illness which also went nowhere.

 

And if Itachi wasn't so clear cut about his motives or actions, then it would give Sasuke the opportunity to surpass the generation before him by truly being the good guy. Not going crazy because of the sharingan, not being a pawn in someone else's game, and choosing peace without wiping everyone out to achieve it.

 

I just keep wishing that Itachi wasn't presented as knowing how everything was going to work out, and making choices like he had complete control. I would like good Itachi much better if he admitted that he was manipulated, and that maybe there was a better way instead of killing everyone. And that maybe Sasuke could be better than him and find it. After all, that's what the crux of this story is about, choosing the path of peace or bloodshed. So a confused Itachi would work better to set Sasuke up to resolve his storyline with Naruto in the end. 

 

But of course, that didn't happen!!!! lol!!

 

 

I always had this little headcanon that Itachi was heavily doted on by Kushina (mothers bestie/godmother trope), and that he loved her like another mother, and found a second, more loving family in the Namikazes. I envisioned that Minato would have taken Itachi under his wing, and shown him why the village was so important and why Minato loved it, and that Itachi would have inherited his love of the village from those two, as the Uchiha lacked that trait. I feel that if that were to occur, it also gives Itachi's spy role in the Akatsuki more backbone, as he would have been trying to protect his godparents' son. Something like that would have made Itachi much more relate-able to the fanbase and story, as you could see why he was so duty bound to Konoha, and why he seemed to be a failure during his stint in the akatsuki, as he never really attempted to catch Naruto. 

 

Another thing I might have done is have Naruto, at some point in time, call Sasuke out on his bs regarding the massacre. I think it is a little stupid that Naruto never got the chance to mention it, nor did he get to really interact with the Hokage, nor did he ever get to learn about his family etc..

 

What would you have done to make it more believable? 

 

I like your head canon! That would be an awesome twist to the story!! And it would definitely shed more light on Itachi, and lay the case for him being a genuinely good person. It would be nice to see the other side of Itachi's actions, the same scenes from early in the manga when he was bad, but that his thought process was very different from what we were presented. In fact, thinking of it now, I have NO IDEA WHY Kishimoto didn't do that. If you have a character that goes from good to bad, that's one of the most satisfying things for a reader is to revisit those scenes that made him bad, and see him in a new light.

 

Think Snape at the end of the Harry Potter series. What if, in the movie, the whole flashback scene where Harry gets to see Snape's thought was left off?? We would only know Snape was good because we were told what to feel, not because he actually was and we believed it. That's what happened with Itachi. We don't have any reason to believe he's good by his actions. We're just told he is. (And that's told to us by crazy Madara/Tobi/Obito, no less!! Whom Itachi had just tried to kill through Sasuke! So how could we trust his words? Why would he suddenly tell the truth? Why would the readers be expected to trust him if Itachi didn't?)

 

Anyway, yeah, I wish Naruto had called out Sasuke. I wish he had done anything other than just have a bar brawl with him at the end.

 

The story should have ended with those two resolving their personal story arc obstacles, then working together to solve Konoha's deeply ingrained flaws of peace vs. bloodshed, civilian vs. ninja, diplomatic culture vs. ROOT tactics. 

 

But in the end, Naruto admits that he and Sasuke haven't resolved anything. And they go their separate ways. Nothing is resolved in the overall narutoverse, and the pairings are like they've been pulled out of a hat. It's like a non-ending!!!! (Which we know now that it truly was.)

 

As for making a more believable ending, without rewriting everything from the Land of Iron arc on (which is really what is needed), I wrote up a fic idea of how the ending would go down in a more satisfactory way. That it didn't get resolved by Naruto and Sasuke having their schoolyard fight, but instead there was a last final arc that just focused on the the two resolving their personal problems left to them by the past generations, before learning from it and working together to protect the Konoha of the future. (I'll clean it up and post it in the fic section today or tomorrow.)

 

I love thinking about this stuff - gives me more ideas for fics, which is a dangerous thing!! lol - Actually, talking about it helps me see where Kishimoto went wrong, and makes me think about ways to not make the same mistakes in my writing.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't get why one same person creates multiple users to attack me. What's the purpose.

[luffyq1]

I don't get why one same person creates multiple users to attack me. What's the purpose.

[Gaara's hair]

I don't get why one same person creates multiple users to attack me. What's the purpose.

So it feels like many users attacking you. The person will make 300 accounts and attack you

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Yes! That's exactly what I think! There is so much more in the Uchiha background that Kishimoto could have explored! One dA artist I like even theorized that Mito Uzumaki was the last wedge between Hashirama and Madara...because Madara secretly loved her, and even wooed her, but lost out to Hashirama. A love rivalry that would ultimately cast long shadows over the power-struggle to come. How awesome would that backstory have been to read in the manga!?!

 

There's Madara's brother and Shisui and Itachi's lover...little hints that there were many Uchiha who were not crazy, power-hungry people, but who gave selflessly to their clan. A little digging could have unearthed much greater stories than what we were given!

 

And what about the Uchiha who didn't activate their sharingan?!? Why did they have to die??

 

There was so much more to the Uchiha story. Instead of dragging out the war, Kishimoto should have delved into the backgrounds of Uchiha and Uzumaki clans for the resolution. Even if it still ended NH, it would have been a much more satisfying manga to read. Instead it felt like filler for 5 years, with a kick-in-the-teeth ending.

 

I know whatcha mean, babe! :) I think that that's a good idea for sure, as well as the fact my friend Kurt and I had thought for the fic that there'd be other Uchiha who didn't like the way things were with the clan only thinking they were superior due to their lineage AND their Sharingan. It would have been an AWESOME backstory to use for sure.

 

Exactly on Izuna as well as Shisui and Itachi's lover. They at least showed some rationality outside of the clan, and I think that it's a shame we didn't see it going on as well as the fact that why did those without the Sharingan have to die? Another thing I wondered is if there were any kids who were in the clan besides Sasuke. It's why I am disappointed about the ending and how it did NOTHING to answer these questions.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I don't get why one same person creates multiple users to attack me. What's the purpose.

 

Because you use logic and logic is their enemy, Sparda. Case closed! Now let's eat :3

[ichigo500]

 

Based on what I saw in the very first teaser, that was what I was expecting as well 

Yeah...they fooled us all ! We were expecting something really great and all...and at the end, all we had was a crappy shojo-like movie revolving around a side character. Anyway, they did all this on purpose, just so people can buy the tickets... 

[Narufan85]

 

 

1: There was so much more to the Uchiha story. Instead of dragging out the war, Kishimoto should have delved into the backgrounds of Uchiha and Uzumaki clans for the resolution. Even if it still ended NH, it would have been a much more satisfying manga to read. Instead it felt like filler for 5 years, with a kick-in-the-teeth ending.

 

 

2: Yes, you're so right. It's like Kishimoto's reluctance to challenge Itachi or Sasuke or Naruto just held the story hostage. Instead of elaborating on their struggles and forcing them to overcome the hurdles in their story arcs, Kishimoto just created new characters, gave them a back story to fight against, then moved on to the next character/set of fights. And though I always expected him to come back around to Naruto or Sasuke or fully explain the events of the beginning of the manga (like the massacre), Kishimoto took the easy way out. He never did.

 

It's like Kishimoto pulled the bait-and-switch ending that was Hinata-fest just all to distract fans from the fact that he bailed on the ENTIRE story.

 

3: Think Snape at the end of the Harry Potter series. What if, in the movie, the whole flashback scene where Harry gets to see Snape's thought was left off?? We would only know Snape was good because we were told what to feel, not because he actually was and we believed it. That's what happened with Itachi. We don't have any reason to believe he's good by his actions. We're just told he is. (And that's told to us by crazy Madara/Tobi/Obito, no less!! Whom Itachi had just tried to kill through Sasuke! So how could we trust his words? Why would he suddenly tell the truth? Why would the readers be expected to trust him if Itachi didn't?)

 

4: Anyway, yeah, I wish Naruto had called out Sasuke. I wish he had done anything other than just have a bar brawl with him at the end.

 

The story should have ended with those two resolving their personal story arc obstacles, then working together to solve Konoha's deeply ingrained flaws of peace vs. bloodshed, civilian vs. ninja, diplomatic culture vs. ROOT tactics. 

 

But in the end, Naruto admits that he and Sasuke haven't resolved anything. And they go their separate ways. Nothing is resolved in the overall narutoverse, and the pairings are like they've been pulled out of a hat. It's like a non-ending!!!! (Which we know now that it truly was.)

 

 

 

I've taken the liberty of numbering your points because I don't know how to break up the quotes. Oops!

 

1: I have said it before, others have said it before, but it's such a shame that the only clan that gets any depth is the Uchiha. Yes, we all love to joke that Kishi loved Sasuke, but really, it's the whole clan. And I think that is to the detriment of the story. What I love about Part 1 is that Kishi did a great job world building. The concept of jutsu and chakra and the villages and clans; it was pretty great! But Part 2 is so much the story of Sasuke and the Uchiha. At some point it stopped being about Naruto and all the goals he established in the beginning and became about telling the story of the Uchiha. 

 

2: 1 and 2 really go together, but I think your comment that he was held hostage is so fitting. None of the three characters you mention really have to face any sort of repercussions for their actions. Kishi never takes Itachi to task, really. Sasuke (autocorrected to Seasick - LOL) never faces any sort of punishment - hell, Sakura and Ino certainly don't mind. And even Naruto never gets taken to task for putting the safety of the village at risk by refusing to challenge Sasuke until the absolute last second.

 

3: I know, I know, this is OT, but I hate how the movies have made Snape a super sympathetic character. Yes, he loved Lily. Yes, in a weird way he did look out for Harry. But I just don't understand where all this sympathy came from. He treated Harry terribly for 7 books, verbally abused him, etc. etc. Is it just because the movie added him cradling Lily's body? Because Rickman acted him well? And don't get me started on Snape-Lily shipping! I feel bad for his character at the end, but his actions in the last part of Book 7 don't absolve him of everything else.

 

4: The ending was so pathetic. I just wish Naruto once showed some anger; just once showed that he was sick of Sasuke's crap. But he never really does. Is it a captive of his own POAL? Does "beating" Sasuke stand as the one last step towards validation? Something built up for 693 chapters seemed so brief and anticlimactic. It wasn't half the battle as was their one at the end of Part 1.

[Michi]

http://slextrem.tumb...-as-a-teletubby

holy kitten I'm crying.

[Gaara's hair]

http://slextrem.tumb...-as-a-teletubby

holy kitten I'm crying.

               

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah...they fooled us all ! We were expecting something really great and all...and at the end, all we had was a crappy shojo-like movie revolving around a side character. Anyway, they did all this on purpose, just so people can buy the tickets... 

 

Exactly, like Studio Pierrot also used Kakashi and Sasuke to try to sell tickets, Ichigo-chan!

[WhyDoIWatch]

 

You didn't get it, SS and NH never had what Obirin had, Obito had legitimate reasons to crush on Rin since she was kind, supportive and believed in him, the only problem is that Kishi made Rin an integral part of Obito's life and forget to give a reason to this, I mean he could 've explained Obito was an outcast at the uchiha clan or something, nobody believed him or liked him, thus Rin became his only shining beacon. Explanations like this could've made his extreme reaction to her death more believable

 

 

Naruto cheered Hinata on in the Neji fight and helped her overcome her struggles, and Sasuke cheered Sakura on in the Chuinin Exams (Not as much as Naruto but still something) plus he saved her. I agree but he still had Kakashi and Minato who both loved him. 

 

 

But, Studio Pierrot are the ones that Convinced Kishi to make "The Last" happen in the first place.

 

I meant, if he wanted more money he should have done something that revolves around Team 7 as Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi are one of the most popular.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Crap...

It's next week. I need all alcohol to live.

[AHK]

Naruto cheered Hinata on in the Neji fight and helped her overcome her struggles, and Sasuke cheered Sakura on in the Chuinin Exams (Not as much as Naruto but still something) plus he saved her. I agree but he still had Kakashi and Minato who both loved him. 
 

I meant, if he wanted more money he should have done something that revolves around Team 7 as Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi are one of the most popular.

Whoa whoa whoa, false. Sasuke never once cheered Sakura on in the Chuunin exam. Not one time.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Whoa whoa whoa, false. Sasuke never once cheered Sakura on in the Chuunin exam. Not one time.

Unless he is referring to that genjutsu scene. But that's really it.

[trang95]

 

Naruto cheered Hinata on in the Neji fight and helped her overcome her struggles, and Sasuke cheered Sakura on in the Chuinin Exams (Not as much as Naruto but still something) plus he saved her. I agree but he still had Kakashi and Minato who both loved him. 
 
I meant, if he wanted more money he should have done something that revolves around Team 7 as Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi are one of the most popular.

Wasn't his fight before Sakura's? I'm pretty sure you meant something else during the Chunin exam b/c he has never cheered her in during the fight.

[ichigo500]

http://slextrem.tumb...-as-a-teletubby

holy kitten I'm crying.

I literally cried of laughter when I saw this..especially the last one       

 

 

Exactly, like Studio Pierrot also used Kakashi and Sasuke to try to sell tickets, Ichigo-chan!

 

Yup ! It's another proof that SP and all knew what they were doing, they knew that Hinata wasn't that popular, and they wouldn't have gain all this money if they told the truth from the beginning...

Crap...

It's next week. I need all alcohol to live.

Oh God...These last months passed sooo fast 

anyway, brace yourself guys, BS, crap, retcons, mops heads, arrogant brats, aliens, Hinakittens, Sas-Uke, and a lot of romantikku moments are coming !