54216 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Which chapter was that?

I believe it was in the Fullbringer arc. It has Renji on it.

@HauntedCake: Now, now. You're stronger than this.

[FireFox]

@Inferno - What i'm getting at is that 615 could be considered a "recovery scene" seen either romantic or platonic your choice. However Kishi had a golden opportunity to do an NS - SK recovery scene but chose not to. So my point is:

 

615 - NH gets recovery scene when there wasn't really a good reason to have it / unnecessary

 

672 - NS has a just reason to have a recovery scene/ moment - DENIED?

 

Alarm bells ringing anyone?

 

 

What i thought just after reading the chapter

What about the moments we had in 662/3 was there no development there or people just gonna ignore that and again overblow 615 out of proportion ? I mean really how is it all of a sudden NS not having a big moment makes NH more developed or better handled as a "paring" ? Why do you guys chose to ignore everything that Sakura has done for Naruto in  these couple of chapters as irrelevant ? I understand that you guys are disappointed but really to say that we should be alarmed over this is way to much . Its like i'm seeing the 615 fiasco in here being played out again over nothing at all , i hope you guys cool down a bit from this its not like this is the end of NS there will be more to come i'm sure of it . .

[BakeNeko-Chan]

What about the moments we had in 662/3 was there no development there or people just gonna ignore that and again overblow 615 out of proportion ? I mean really how is it all of a sudden NS not having a big moment makes NH more developed or better handled as a "paring" ? Why do you guys chose to ignore everything that Sakura has done for Naruto in  these couple of chapters as irrelevant ? I understand that you guys are disappointed but really to say that we should be alarmed over this is way to much . Its like i'm seeing the 615 fiasco in here being played out again over nothing at all , i hope you guys cool down a bit from this its not like this is the end of NS there will be more to come i'm sure of it . .

 

I haven't seen anyone here claim that this is the end of NS. I've seen people who have expressed dissatisfaction, but no one is losing their head over it, I know I'm not.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 09 April 2014 - 09:31 PM.

[Gojira]

I'll just repost what I said in a different thread since its relevant.

Not even a tear shed. I'm disappointed I'm really starting to get the impression that NS is getting more and more vague as the series progresses, starting by the beginning of Part 2 until now all the moments have been dying down, even Sakura seems to be consistently less concerned, during the Sai/Sasuke arc the entire time they were searching for Sasuke not once did we see her think about it because she loves him but because of how she knew how close he was to Naruto, during the Rescue Gaara arc she cried simply being aware that jinchuuriki's die when the bijuu is removed, the when the main character actually does die a set-up that should be the most emotional for her now....she doesn't shed a single tear. This entire war arc and kage summit arc with Sakura has revolved solely around Sasuke and how much she misses him and feels about what he has become, all the development and chemistry made between naruto and Sakura throughout part 2 seems pointless if she still hasn't shown any form of acknowledgement of her feelings for him. At this point I'm starting to wonder if she actually does love him or if the Yamato statement is now just gonna be considered outdated bs.

I will say that another Sakura/Karin parallel was a nice touch. Now at this point NS seems inevitable, if Sakura were to end up with Sasuke or Hinata were to end up with Naruto it would kind of throw the parallal Kishi's going for her all out of whack.

[Elicit]

The only people that say that this is the end of NS are the A-NS that claim that Sakura should have realized her feelings in 663 if NS were happen. But then they forget how there has been absolutely no NH moments after 631 and how SS looks impossible at this point. Even if Sakura doesn't actually love Naruto at this point, they ignore any possibility of Sakura actually developing romantic feelings for Naruto in hopes that Kishi would deliver for either NH or SS as if they expect NS to never progress any further.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
I haven't seen anyone here claim that this is the end of NS. I've seen people who have expressed dissatisfaction, but no one is losing their head over it, I know I'm not.

Sadly, that's the case here. I really don't understand. It's not you. You understand clear. I feel like we are doing it more for our ego than the story. Yes, I would like more to it but hey, if something needs to move fast, it's better than to ignore entirely.

[FireFox]

 

I haven't seen anyone here claim that this is the end of NS. I've seen people who have expressed dissatisfaction, but no one is losing their head over it, I know I'm not.

You maybe not  but others are sure overreacting over this and i didn't mean to say that someone said it but the way people in here act sure as hell gives that impression . I mean really suddenly CPR meant nothing , the emotions and the determination that Sakura have shown to save his life means nothing , Naruto being the reason for that means nothing , Sakura thinking of his dream being supporting of it means nothing right its just that right . It feels like i'm in the ANS forum not the NS one .

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 10 April 2014 - 12:11 AM.

[sushi.]

The only people that say that this is the end of NS are the A-NS that claim that Sakura should have realized her feelings in 663 if NS were happen. But then they forget how there has been absolutely no NH moments after 631 and how SS looks impossible at this point. Even if Sakura doesn't actually love Naruto at this point, they ignore any possibility of Sakura actually developing romantic feelings for Naruto in hopes that Kishi would deliver for either NH or SS as if they expect NS to never progress any further.

If they say that, they admit that the only thing standing in the way of NS is Sakura's feelings. So they admit that Naruto already loves Sakura, NS only needs S>N.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I think it's funny that as of late, saying something in a different light can bring new enemy rather than saying something bad at them will bring new enemy. For example:

Person 1: I think it's best to wait for more because that's how Kishi writes. It's not that it's over, so we got to wait.
Person 2 response: You're my enemy.

Do I have that? No, but I can see strong conflict going on that I know in back of my head. It's...getting sad. One would say that they don't agree and understand but now, it's different. In fact, it almost seem like a positive note is against the world. Who to say all of us like it or not. Know what I mean? I still respect them, but I wish we didn't have to sound like we are the answer, rather than we are an opinion. We like to debate and put our two cents and even make a correction or two, but just shoving down is not the way.

[Gojira]

You maybe not  but others are sure overreacting over this and i didn't mean to say that someone said it but the way people in here act sure as hell gives that impression . I mean really suddenly CPR meant nothing , the emotions and the determination that Sakura have shown to safe his life means nothing , Naruto being the reason for that means nothing , Sakura thinking of his dream being supporting of it means nothing right its just that right . It feels like i'm in the ANS forum not the NS one .

I never could understand why her supporting his dream is considered a huge NS moment (I know its an NS moment don't get me wrong) considering that everyone with the exception of Sasuke and the others are fully supportive of Naruto and his dream.

CPR aside I don't really see how her support is standing out

I am majorly disappointed at no NS moment but Kishi is most likely saving it for when Naruto and Sasuke almost kill each other (that would be a pretty good time to make a parallel with the OVA)

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Sadly, that's the case here. I really don't understand. It's not you. You understand clear. I feel like we are doing it more for our ego than the story. Yes, I would like more to it but hey, if something needs to move fast, it's better than to ignore entirely.

 

It's true that people's ego can get in the way, they start predicting and speculating and then get upset when they don't end up happening. Personally, I kept a low expectation, not hinging any hope on some big, canonizing moment, but I'm still disappointed. Not even a thank you from Naruto or any real reaction from Sakura, just a little panel that shows a tear in her eye, and only if you look very closely. For me, it's not very satisfactory. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
It's true that people's ego can get in the way, they start predicting and speculating and then get upset when they don't end up happening. Personally, I kept a low expectation, not hinging any hope on some big, canonizing moment, but I'm still disappointed. Not even a thank you from Naruto or any real reaction from Sakura, just a little panel that shows a tear in her eye, and only if you look very closely. For me, it's not very satisfactory. 

For something that needs to go quick, it's ok. Yes, I would like more but what I got for the reason, I can't say I am mad, but I can just say, "Oh well, maybe next time." I can't say everyone should be happy but I think everyone shouldn't be angry, note not disappointed, angry. Disappointed, fine, angry, why. Plus for a small detail, it's ok enough.

[NS4Life]

The way things are playing out, I just don't see any real NS stuff until the end. Everything is on hold for Sasuke.

 

We probably won't get NS until the last chapter with a couple panels. I don't see how fans would be happy with that.

 

I want to enjoy NS not brag to the SS and NH fans we were right, I could care less about that.

 

I hope I am very wrong, but I just get the feeling Kishi is going to drop the ball with NS (like the confession).

[Luna]

The way things are playing out, I just don't see any real NS stuff until the end. Everything is on hold for Sasuke.
 
We probably won't get NS until the last chapter with a couple panels. I don't see how fans would be happy with that.
 
I want to enjoy NS not brag to the SS and NH fans we were right, I could care less about that.
 
I hope I am very wrong, but I just get the feeling Kishi is going to drop the ball with NS (like the confession).

I believe we will get an NS moment but only when Madara is defeated. I think kishi just wants to done away with the war to be honest.

[KnS]

You maybe not  but others are sure overreacting over this and i didn't mean to say that someone said it but the way people in here act sure as hell gives that impression . I mean really suddenly CPR meant nothing , the emotions and the determination that Sakura have shown to safe his life means nothing , Naruto being the reason for that means nothing , Sakura thinking of his dream being supporting of it means nothing right its just that right . It feels like i'm in the ANS forum not the NS one .

 

You should have been here when #615 hit.  You'd think the sky had fallen.  

 

I don't pretend to understand why some fans get so worked up that they can't enjoy the story as it moves along, but that's the way it is.

[NS4Life]

@Baka chan

 

I hope you're right.

[TyranntX]

If anyone is still disappointed..

did this

make you feel better

?

 

I mean look at their faces ( okay, at least Sakura's x) )..and they were mirrored too. Just look at the whole page. Everyone has accepted Naruto and Sasuke are yin and yang, but to believe this is intentional as well, you'd have to be a pairing fan?

 

you do ave a point there

[Inferno180]

Ok so despite the events of today, I guess I wanted to give you guys something for this topic, considering its a debate thread.

 

This is something that has peaked my curiosity ever since last year and due to recent events with 662, it kinda repeaked it, this has to do with the conflicts of interest between NH and NS.

 

Why not SS? Well for all purposes, I'll make this simple unlike the others, there is just no way at this point SS can still come and be rendered believable or acceptable without damaging or causing a risk of reversion upon Sakura's character development or putting Sasuke OOC. There is no way anyone should even consider this pairing as possible or believeable if somehow the land of iron events or all the stuff Sasuke pulled is just rendered as a bad moment in a relationship. This is what, the 3rd time Sakura has seen Sasuke in all of part 2 and still not much has gone, I mean I know NH has its problems, NS does as well, but even NH has a big lead on this one, it just cannot happen at anypoint to be believable, even SK is ahead of it just on the fact that he actually apologized to Karin. SS is just antagonistic on Sakura's end, thats all it is, it just cannot happen for as popular as it is, the story just cannot allow or make it believable. Its just not going to happen for any purpose, theres no reason or even acceptable way to bring it about, sakura has changed in her development, she isnt trusting sasuke, but she also isnt just going to blindly love him after this. Sasuke has no purpose for romance, its been over 600 chapters and he never once had feelings for another, theres just no point for it at this time. Maybe a possible open ended view for him could occur, but only at the end of the story since he spent the whole story being this loose cannon pride obsessed guy who at one time wants revenge and the next revenge on another.

 

So on to the main point, why is it that both NH and NS have a "conflict of interest?" well its not based on the elements of the pairings themselves rather its the basis of the events that came out and just how kishi wrote the stuff in as it came. The central cause of this mess? The trifecta of the trouble lets call it are these:

 

1. Hinatas confession being unaddressed

2. Naruto's view toward Sakura after her confession being (mostly) unaddressed

3. Kushinas foreshadow as a story element

 

Lets break this down:

 

Hinatas confession for loving naruto has since been unaddressed, its been 6 years, still hasnt been touched upon, but it will be.

 

Naruto's view toward sakura has been mostly unaddressed because while there is reason to say he still loves her, others are not convinced so this one is a division by fanbase or the individual rather than just a story element

 

Kushina's foreshadow, as it was a story element, this one also like the before reason drives some divisions. The deal was, at one time both NH and NS fans could follow this, but when 631 rolled around, all hell broke loose.

 

So what is the problem? Well its that moment of when 615 came in then 631 struck causing the mother of all meltdowns, we got ourselves an issue for both NH and NS while this ironically also posed some resolution or answers in one way or another to NS.

 

NH was supposedly "canon" at 615 because Naruto hadn't touched upon his view towards sakura yet 631 was otherwise hinting he still loved her and that Sakura was like Kushina.

 

The result was a massive upset to the point fourms on sites like Narutobase and Narutospot had to be shut down, simply because of the dislike towards Sakura.

 

So now as things have played out, going forward this occured. There is a big problem in the gap that occured with 631 and its an aspect that has caused a divide in certain views for the fandom under the NH and NS stuff. What is this exactly? Its this:

 

NH had issues caused for it when 631 came around, it was one part Naruto saying he still (most likely) loves Sakura, the other, that Sakura was like Kushina. The result was now suddenly, because this fell upon Sakura, many fans came with claims saying the Kushina foreshadow didnt matter, it was a joke, inserting realism for minato not knowing much about Naruto, etc. Or that the foreshadow was somehow reversed as Hinata like Minato. It was by all means, a mess, logic was broken, opinions differed, its drawn such a scar, it still presists, thats how bad this moment was and we are almost a year towards that event. So what are the issues for NH at this point then?

 

NH's issues:

-It still suffers from an unaddressed confession

-It is still very infrequent

-Naruto never revealed his changed feelings for Sakura

-Naruto likewise never had any screentime of going for Hinata

-For Hinata thought to be like Kushina, 631 drove a major stake into the ground as it was a foreshadow element.

-Hinata's problems are as in intended character to simply see as romance, has been trounced upon to some NH fans, its that now many see Sakura as "robbing" hinata of naruto or that Naruto is simply "blind to love" or a jerk for calling sakura his girlfriend.

-Hinata misses out on developments of opportunity, most recently, yes tripping is missed opportunity development.

-The space of time remaining in the story shrinks each week and its not helping with only 2 major battles left.

-Hinata's foreseeable development is highly clouded.

 

The deal with NH at this point is, while there are moments with its merits like pain and 615, it just suffers from either too infrequent, spaced out, or not followed upon. I mean for one thing it looked like it would go somewhere with pain, but it was unaddressed, no downtime. Then 615 came, 631 struck. For NH fans to say that the kushina thing was a joke, parallels mean nothing, or trying to inject realism into this, its an issue of arguing against a foreshadow, its like we knew Sasuke was getting the rinnegan so you going to argue against that too? Nh has its own development and it could go somewhere, the deal however is there are just other story elements making NH have too many hurdles it must overcome in such a limited space. The deal is, if say Kushina's foreshadow must be taken with a grain or salt or naruto is joking, then by default NH runs into an issue of either why didnt kishi just focus on it or why bother with the kushina foreshadow at all? Is it supposed to entail that it was a foreshadow just for a "joke?" Otherwise if Kushina's foreshadow doesn't apply, then any arguments against it or parallels cannot happen, if the KushiKushi stuff argued on this argued, NH like MK cannot happen either. Really, theres just a deal of what happened recently. Baiscally, if kishi is intending to make a case of NH, then why is it NS gets more thrown on it? Wouldn't one suspect that for NH to go canon, it would have needed at least the kushina foreshadow to hint something? Otherwise Naruto's changing feelings? But then this drives more issues like, naruto moving on in one way could entail him "giving up" which is against his character, the other is if he was serious about being over sakura, wouldn't it have been displayed more? Not just assumed? Even to Sai's words after 469, saying why she did what she did, him feeling partially to blame, even to which kishi himself has input on fan reception to this event, it has to lead one to ask Did naruto really get over Sakura or is there something else we are not seeing? I'm betting its the latter, kishi didnt say NS was a done deal, he also didnt say Naruto moved on. Sakura loving sasuke is still there, but thats another issue only on NS which I will explain soon. The best way to say this is, Nh could occur but there are conflicts involving a preexisting story element hinting a girlfriend for naruto but of which it has fallen on Sakura (even for as minor as it is, Sakura is still the only girl compared to Kushina from Minato no less) but people will argue with realism saying its rather up to the characters to figure out, not the reader despite the clues between the backstory of kushina and minato and the foreshadow to 631 itself.

 

The deal is for NH, it has to either gain a lot of development real fast or somehow render the Kushina foreshadow obsoltete but even then, this causes another issue of then why the hell did kishi even put this here in the first place? NH can occur, but it would be rough around the edges. Even for what time remains, there isnt much appropriate nor necessary for it to render development. NH at this point, kishi makes it seem like a wildcard that you never know what will happen and for Hinata's easily intended design to be something romance based, its that she either will or will not get it. As I said before, in the end there will be a losing girl and it more or less will be either Hinata herself or Karin.

 

So what about NS problems? Despite the development, despite the stuff that has come for it, yes it still has issues:

-Sakura still loves sasuke(desipte the negative attribute of not trusting him)

-Naruto hasn't confessed

-to some people they want a more clear cut answer

-Hinata remains an unpredictable wildcard.

-People just don't like it and won't accept it

 

While the other reasons are straightforward, hinata as a "wildcard" is the main issue, while its true she hasn't been touched upon is a weakness for NH, its also an issue for NS in just what the hell does kishi intend to do with her then? The problem is, we don't know where kishi is going to go with her, from one moment to the next its either sudden or unexpected despite hardly connected. This seems like a joke but the deal is this because of the whole pain event, naruto still needs some resolution with hinata, while things like the kushina foreshadow falling on sakura and having the majority of development have helped NS, it has just this lingering event that makes an issue, what does kishi intend to do? While it doesn't help NH for it to be unattented, it also is an issue of this just lying around for NS until kishi actually does something. By all means, concise and connective development are the strongest thing meriting NS, but there stll has to be some resolution or closure with HInata, I mean while NS is more or less the lead pairing, the most likely to occur, this is like a small leak that needs to be patched up, one kishi left open for too long. Its caused this unintended mess of well as NS goes forward, NH seems to bounce around, not doing much or going far, but he doesn't give us a good outlook on where he intends to actually take things with hinata. Its either hinata gets her resolution and NH goes as friendship or NH goes canon despite how overly convinent and weak this makes Hinata's development and relation with naruto be. I mean its one thing to have a story element like kushinas foreshadow and put it on sakura, its another to spontaneously have naruto just switch to hinata without any notification of who he loves exactly, the closest being well, yeah him still loving sakura. Otherwise we again run into that issue of kushinas foreshadow doesnt matter, parallels dont matter despite how much kishi has emphasized it in the main plot between Naruto and Sasuke.

 

Otherwise another general problem is just how much people hate NS, its been targeted the most as anti-everything moments, to the point of well, if you just outright dismiss all of sakuras activities, its going to cost a fair portion of the story. Its while many didnt like the hug, reveal that naruto loves her from sai, the land of iron events (both confession and reunion) 631, and most recently 663 for its well, her lengths to go far for him and ensure he can live to achieve his dream, you get people saying it was necrophiliac of her to give naruto CPR or that she is still somehow an uncaring mean spirited girl despite being concerned, wanting to help him in his goals, and so on, basically the argument of somehow sakura doesn't care or naruto doesn't like her anymore sadly still exist despite neither having happened. And we still all expect him to handle and forgive sasuke no questions asked?

 

Thats the idea:

 

NH has issues relating to just what kishi put in for NS like 631 with Kushina's foreshadow and otherwise the idea that it can still come desipte its lack of frequency in appearing in the story, likewise naruto not turning her way is still one deal as well.

 

NS is fortunately not in the same pit, Sakura has been more dynamic, but its just again, Hinata is by all means on the bounds between either convinent token character or unpredictable wildcard who needs to be addressed and this leaves a mess both ways, either naruto has some event to settle things with her from her eariler actions, or he loves her and again, we find a conflict with story elements that have fallen on NS.

 

The sole problem in this is that people still don't consider them. We know the issues on NH's end, but i hope many of you are aware of the issues in NS, like yes, Hinata needs resolution, thats about the only thing that must occur. Otherwise we find issues both ways, NH cannot occur without solving or overcoming many of these problems, but for NS, likewise there has to be a resolution for her, despite her "romance" potenial, hinata needs to be addressed in some meaningful way over the whole pain event otherwise Nh goes canon but we get that issue of too convinent, too simple, anti-climatic in all senses, renders other plot elements pointless from the start. Makes Naruto seem contradictory at this point as well. Otherwise NS can occur, but to handle Hinata, it needs to do something like Naruto talks to Hinata, but gives her the we can still be very close friends, I acknoweldge your skills, stuff like that. But its again, people argue and make such a mess of this, this is basically the present mess between NH and NS and while NS is mostly in order, its only got a minor detail that needs to be done in giving proper ending development to hinata. In the reverse side though, yes NH has too many hurdles and just renders hinata on the spot of plot device and no concise development to just convinently be loving naruto in the end.

 

Thats basically how I see the conflict of interests in the pairing wars, because by his writing, kishi drew up this conflict so its either go foward with story elements and and the stuff revolving around NS he put down, or otherwise make Hinata the simple answer and render the other stuff sudden and pointless. Thats what this pairing war virtually has gone to from his writing, one side wants this another wants that, but there is a difference between them and its just simple long complex development being larger on one than another, but the larger one, NS still has to wait a bit until naruto addresses Hinata. NS can occur without this, but if it did, this just renders hinata completey unnessessary to the larger story if it comes to this. For NS to go canon, kishi can either give a stable ending for her development, along the lines of like acknowledgement for naruto, naruto needing to clear his own issues before confessing to sakura in the end, otherwise hinata is just doomed to mediocrity if the NS side just passes this.

 

Either way, its hard for Hinata and NH at this point, mainly due to kishis choices and just lack of connection from NH events.

 

This is what I think of the issues between NH and NS and as I said, just too many exist on NH's end while NS can go forward without much incident. I mean seriously, the kushina foreshadow is the prime suspect, just why bother than if its not important at this point despite other scenes like yes 663 with it being sakura showing the support for his dreams when hinata still just thinks about him? Supporting anothers goals is still a means of caring and Sakura is at the point she cares a lot for naruto, maybe she subconciously loves naruto, but that is something we must wait to see in the future. Given the recent events though, NS has more poential to move forward.

[BlueStarSaber]

I believe it was in the Fullbringer arc. It has Renji on it.

@HauntedCake: Now, now. You're stronger than this.

 

got to check that out.

[FireFox]

I never could understand why her supporting his dream is considered a huge NS moment (I know its an NS moment don't get me wrong) considering that everyone with the exception of Sasuke and the others are fully supportive of Naruto and his dream.

CPR aside I don't really see how her support is standing out

I am majorly disappointed at no NS moment but Kishi is most likely saving it for when Naruto and Sasuke almost kill each other (that would be a pretty good time to make a parallel with the OVA)

Its important because it shows the woman's love and support for the man to achieve his dreams what ever they might be with this his dreams becomes hers , in a sense it represents true or ideal love . Through these series Sakura was the only girl that has been supportive of his dreams becoming Hokage , bringing Sasuke back  KN4 scene , and while the others are supportive of Naruto Sakura has been the only one shown thinking of that dream and wanting to protect that dream see it happen no matter what she's is whiling to go the distance for it like we have seen it in the chunin exams and in ch 663 . On the OVA thing  more or less i agree , and we are all disappointed i'm to but that doesn't mean that we all need to act like big babies i say enough is enough you have all made your point let it go already .

 

 

You should have been here when #615 hit.  You'd think the sky had fallen.  

 

I don't pretend to understand why some fans get so worked up that they can't enjoy the story as it moves along, but that's the way it is.

Oh i was and i know     but i wasn't a member here at that time like i have mention when i officially join here before i join i was following this thread and the forum for 3 or 4 years  .

 

Well i never did expect it for the reactions to be as they were/are i just hope this phase passes quickly and this again becomes the NS thread and forum because right it doesn't feel like it is    .