19441 replies to this topic

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Naruto would have lived without her interference because guess what? PLOT ARMOR. 

 

Actually no, he would live either way, because he musn't be killed before taking Kurama out of him... but who thinks of that? It's was minute for Hinata to shine, lol

[Tsuki Hoshino]

'that would be the plot armor I was talking about lol 

But yea, Hinata's interference was unnecessary, and DETRIMENTAL. Not helpful. 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 03 December 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[Narufan85]

I see that you've conveniently left out all the things Sakura has done for Naruto. For instance, ' If it weren't for Hinata entering the fight against Pein, Naruto would be dead by now'. I guess Naruto saved himself in 663 then...?
 
And as far as I know, it was not Hinata who 'protected' (LOL ! ) Naruto. It was Naruto who ended up protecting her and it was Sakura who ended up saving her life. 
 
Hinata was the first person to acknowledge Naruto? Wonderful ! And what did she do about it? Hide behind trees and let Naruto keep on suffering. Its funny that whenever Naruto thinks about the people who saved him from the pain of loneliness he never thinks about Hinata. No, he thinks about Iruka, Sasuke, Sakura and Kakashi. 
 
Remind me again who was the ONLY person who has shown an unwavering support to Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage ? Hinata? Did she ever think about this dream of Naruto's ? Did she ever understand Naruto's pain as a Jinchuuriki ? No...It was all Sakura. 
 
But hey, its us who have our thick shipper glasses on right ?

Bravo.

[rocci]

Kishi do that in part 2 I think. With the pain, danzo and kitten.
The problem is he can't handle it. Thus the criticism start from pain arc.

[harry4e]

 

Most people who ship NH also ship SS. I've seen more Sakura hate from the NS side of things after she ended up with Sasuke, tbh lol

 

And Sakura only ever loved on person, too. It's not like Hinata is the only character to end up like that. : p

As for liking Hinata, welllll, I'm not going to look at this with shipper goggles on, because that just leads to "omg she has done nothing, evil harlot must dieeee" and completely ignoring the things she did do.

 

Hinata is a lot like Naruto, only on the opposite spectrum. He had no family, and so no one acknowledged him because of what happened with Kurama/his behavior. Hinata had family, but they didn't acknowledge her because of her weakness/behavior. She's the underdog as far as he female cast goes. Naruto inspires her to not give up, and to keep going, despite her flaws. (Sasuke was the reason Sakura wanted to get stronger, and I honestly think Hinata's reasons are much better than Sakura's lol) Hinata was the first person Naruto was open about his true self with, and she's also the first person to acknowledge him/accept him. (I mean, sheesh, sakura needed Sasuke-the-jerk-Uchiha to tell her to knock it the fluff off.)

 

It was Hinata alone that entered the fight against Pain to protect Naruto, and if she hadn't, he'd be dead right now. It was her almost death that spurned him to not give up/broke the seal. It was also Hinata that stopped Naruto from giving into Obito after Neji's death (And it was his choice, he chose to jump in front of Hinata and Naruto. It's not like she threw him in front of them and cackled like some people have made it out to be lol)

 

I realize now that Sakura's journey was not to fall in love with Naruto. It was to accept and acknowledge him. She was never going to stop loving Sasuke, Kishimoto has made that clear. And I don't mind that anymore. They have a beautiful friendship in canon, and if Hinata is the one to make Naruto the happiest, then I will support that. I still won't ship it, but I can see why it's there.

 

No it was her death that made him give up on life and give into hatred, her dumb actions would have ended with his death no matter what, it just just a way to get him to react, it was thanks to Minato stopping his son from releasing the Nine tails that could have cost the village a few hundred more lives. You want to talk about actions and reactions, how about when he went 4 tails and hurt Sakura, those actions spurned on Naruto to not rely on the power of the Nine tails and train to get better himself. Sakura saw Naruto in his ugliest form and didn't see the four tails she saw Naruto, and the pain he was feeling, The bond between Naruto and Sakura was a strong two way bond, we saw Both of them make sacrifices for the other, and now this movie is telling us that bond was built on a lie.

 

Hinata's biggest contribution to the manga was when she slapped Naruto out of his stupper, something that while well done, did not show Hinata in the best light afterward because it showed once again the difference between Naruto and Hinata, all Hinata cared for was Naruto, even Neji's death was made to appear as a stepping stone to get close to him, My brother Neji died...oh look how big Naruto's hands are, Naruto on the other hand was shown how much he cared about everyone. Look at Hinata's dream world, Naruto was not Hokage in her dreams, if Hinata's loved Naruto as much as she claimed then her dreams would include him achieving his own dreams but that wasn't the case, it was a stark contrast to Tsunade who not only was with Dan, but showed us Dan achieving his dream as well.

 

That's the problem with the ending, the entirity of the second half we saw Sakura's feelings for Naruto, the sacrifices she was prepared to make for him, how well she knew him, the amount of trust she had in his ability, she never doubted Naruto was capable of defeating Pain, her faith in Naruto was second to non, are we really meant to beleive all that was because...she wasn't in love with him? That Naruto was only after her because of Sasuke? seven years atleast of chasing her for a rivalry? And if Sakura knew this why did she not bother putting him straight years ago? Instead when it was decided to go after Sasuke to eliminate him, her words to Sai were 'That Idiot is In Love with me, so let me deal with him' or somethng along those lines, what so she admitted that Naruto was in love with her then, but soon as Sasuke shows up it becomes obvious to her it was never love? The same girl who didn't even know Naruto actually liked her as more than a friend for all the time they spent together? Her journey was to Acknowledge and Accept him? LOL...read the Chunnin exams, she acknowledged and accepted him and his dream then, we didn't need another 650 chapters to be shown that.

 

The manga is called Naruto, it was his feelings that were portrayed all the way through, this movie is telling us that the manga lied to us for 698 chapters, all this time it showed us the MC's feelings for Sakura, it's now telling us it was a lie. The movie is literally telling us it was lying to us all the way through.

[Nefertieh]

Just a coincidence. There's no reason to make a parallel to MK when he already compared Sakura to Kushina. The smart thing to do as an author (who was dumb enough to write a contradictory ending) is ignore that such parallels ever existed.

One of the spoilers said Naruto finds Hinata by traces of her hair. Yep, she's being shoehorned as Kushina as well.

[trang95]

I'm not even going to dignify that "post" of Lilac's with a long, thought out explanation of how wrong it was because you can't fight stupid.

But I will say this, anyone who says they were a NS fan, and then out of the other side of their mouth says "We read it wrong" or that what we saw wasn't what was there, is not an NS fan. Naruto and Sakura's relationship was THERE. You know whose wasn't? Hinata and Naruto's. 15 kittening chapters of basically Naruto-kooning? Please, GTFO of here with that kitten. 

Hinata jumped into the fight because she DIDN'T understand and accept Naruto. She did it because she was SELFISH. ( not to mention suicidal ) Naruto would have lived without her interference because guess what? PLOT ARMOR. 

 

Honestly, when it comes to Naruto pairings it's hard to explain why people ship their couple. I consider SasuSaku a horrible couple, but other people do ship them. Does that mean that they support this type of relationship in real life? No, of course not. I know wonderful people, but when I see them shipping SasuSaku it is just an enigma to me.

We will never fully understand why other people ship NH or SS if we don't have the same mindset as the others. A writer tried to explain it on tumblr once that it's just everybody's personality that hinders someone from understanding the existence of the anti-couples.

Is there a thread in here that talks about what motivates people to ship SasuSaku and NaruHina or any of the crack pairings?

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
No it was her death that made him give up on life and give into hatred, her dumb actions would have ended with his death no matter what, it just just a way to get him to react, it was thanks to Minato stopping his son from releasing the Nine tails that could have cost the village a few hundred more lives. You want to talk about actions and reactions, how about when he went 4 tails and hurt Sakura, those actions spurned on Naruto to not rely on the power of the Nine tails and train to get better himself. Sakura saw Naruto in his ugliest form and didn't see the four tails she saw Naruto, and the pain he was feeling, The bond between Naruto and Sakura was a strong two way bond, we saw Both of them make sacrifices for the other, and now this movie is telling us that bond was built on a lie.
 
Hinata's biggest contribution to the manga was when she slapped Naruto out of his stupper, something that while well done, did not show Hinata in the best light afterward because it showed once again the difference between Naruto and Hinata, all Hinata cared for was Naruto, even Neji's death was made to appear as a stepping stone to get close to him, My brother Neji died...oh look how big Naruto's hands are, Naruto on the other hand was shown how much he cared about everyone. Look at Hinata's dream world, Naruto was not Hokage in her dreams, if Hinata's loved Naruto as much as she claimed then her dreams would include him achieving his own dreams but that wasn't the case, it was a stark contrast to Tsunade who not only was with Dan, but showed us Dan achieving his dream as well.
 
That's the problem with the ending, the entirity of the second half we saw Sakura's feelings for Naruto, the sacrifices she was prepared to make for him, how well she knew him, the amount of trust she had in his ability, she never doubted Naruto was capable of defeating Pain, her faith in Naruto was second to non, are we really meant to beleive all that was because...she wasn't in love with him? That Naruto was only after her because of Sasuke? seven years atleast of chasing her for a rivalry? And if Sakura knew this why did she not bother putting him straight years ago? Instead when it was decided to go after Sasuke to eliminate him, her words to Sai were 'That Idiot is In Love with me, so let me deal with him' or somethng along those lines, what so she admitted that Naruto was in love with her then, but soon as Sasuke shows up it becomes obvious to her it was never love? The same girl who didn't even know Naruto actually liked her as more than a friend for all the time they spent together? Her journey was to Acknowledge and Accept him? LOL...read the Chunnin exams, she acknowledged and accepted him and his dream then, we didn't need another 650 chapters to be shown that.
 
The manga is called Naruto, it was his feelings that were portrayed all the way through, this movie is telling us that the manga lied to us for 698 chapters, all this time it showed us the MC's feelings for Sakura, it's now telling us it was a lie. The movie is literally telling us it was lying to us all the way through.

Exactly! This! This! This! This!

And that's what killed Naruto for me.

[FireFox]

Its like Kishimoto pressed the Reset button. Naruto is the new Pokemon 

 

Kishimoto seems to have pressed the Self-Destruct button too.

 

 

And this was only at the end of part 1 and beginning of part 2. By the time of War arc, she wanted to get stronger so that she can stand alongside Naruto and Sasuke as an equal.

 

But for some people, the source of a woman's motivation can only ever be her love for a man    

That to but also don't forget  that it was in fact Naruto who inspired Sakura to keep going further  he was her rock and she wanted to help him in everything  , like Sakura herself said that  watching Naruto makes her wanting to become stronger   not to mention she already gave up on Sasuke so many times  Sasuke did nothing for her except downgrading her putting her down and Naruto was always the one to lift her spirit up and keep fighting  by watching his determination .  So yeah  Sakura clearly become stronger bc of Sasuke and was inspired by him Sasuke is her strength   .

[harry4e]

One of the spoilers said Naruto finds Hinata by traces of her hair. Yep, she's being shoehorned as Kushina as well.

 

Well that has to be false, besides Hinata doesn't hate her hair, just look at how glossy and shiny it is, two things we know about the Hyuuga, they have a stick up their arse making them think they are the best clan in Konoha and that they spend more time coming their hair than any other clan ever, the clan must be mortified by Himewara and Bolt, with their whatever you want to call that hair...they kinda remind me of a bunch of bananas.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Honestly, when it comes to Naruto pairings it's hard to explain why people ship their couple. I consider SasuSaku a horrible couple, but other people do ship them. Does that mean that they support this type of relationship in real life? No, of course not. I know wonderful people, but when I see them shipping SasuSaku it is just an enigma to me.

We will never fully understand why other people ship NH or SS if we don't have the same mindset as the others. A writer tried to explain it on tumblr once that it's just everybody's personality that hinders someone from understanding the existence of the anti-couples.

Is there a thread in here that talks about what motivates people to ship SasuSaku and NaruHina or any of the crack pairings?

I am extremely liberal with my Naruto ships...well my Sakura ships. To me, the only person for Naruto is Sakura, because thats what he's SHOWN me throughout the manga ( prior to the shall-not-be-named chapters.) I USED to ship SS way back when, before he turned into a psychopath, poisoning and spitting on all the people who loved him for his own self destructive tendencies.
But I also shipped NS at the same time.

I can't tell you why they ship it, but I imagine some people find Tragedy romantic. Some people think Angst and pain are what love is all about.

And as for NH, who doesn't want a basic self insert to be with the MC? Who doesn't want the kicked puppy to get everything she/he deserves--or what they THINK they deserve/want?  Who doesn't want the perfect wife who will never disagree to your face, who will coddle and make you sammiches whenever your heart desires? Who has the perfect body and a "Anything you want dear!"  disposition? 

Its too perfect and thats the problem. 

 

[ns.Believe.It]

'that would be the plot armor I was talking about lol 

But yea, Hinata's interference was unnecessary, and DETRIMENTAL. Not helpful. 

Exactly ! People say- 'Oh Hinata jumped in to save Naruto without even thinking of her own life'. I say- She did so because she had no faith in Naruto and his abilities. 

 

That's another of the many things that NS has over NH- Faith.

 

Sakura had the utmost faith in Naruto. She called out for Naruto when the Leaf village was on the brink of destruction. She believed in Naruto's abilities more than anyone in the entire Shinobi world.

 

Hinata knew nothing about Naruto ! Hinata keeps talking about understanding Naruto's nindo but you know what's funny? Remember Sasuke retrieval arc? When Naruto gets kicked away by Tobi, Hinata loses her faith in him and starts Naruto-kunning. While Sakura says- " Hinata, something like that can never put down Naruto ! Keep your eye on the enemy ".

 

Says it all really. 

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 03 December 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[rocci]

@Trang
It simple, because they like it. It doesn't need development. You just need to like it.

[Lady Lys]

I don't dislike Hinata because I ship NS. I dislike her for what she is and what she represents, and most importantly because people are doing somersaults in order to convince me that she's a positive figure.

She bloody hell isn't. And nothing in the world could ever change my mind on this. She is a very very negative character imo.

And I understood that long before the ending, but long after the Pain fight. 

So telling me that I have my shipper goggles on is, I feel, not a correct statement. I don't like her for very personal reasons, and I ship NS for reasons that are different from those.

I'm not 5 years old, I can happily accept that my OTP is not canon (one could say that I'm used to it) this doesn't mean tough that I have to roll belly up and accept that this is the logical course of the story (because it clearly isn't) and that Kishi and the NHers are the superior minds who are always right.

We didn't read the manga wrong, it was Kishimoto who kittened up, because he either put a relationship that he didn't have in mind to deliver (and that's clearly a form of bad writing) or he decided to listen to the marketing/changed his opinion at the last second/ whatever else he might have done to kitten it up so much. (also a form of bad writing) 

 

 

 

 

And for the love of God let's stop saying to stop criticize Kishimoto, he wrote a kittening manga not the theory of the relativity or some kind of holy book (and those are criticized constantly anyway)! Critiques exist for a reason, and in his case he deserves them in spades.

[tricksie]

Do not bash Lilac about her post. If you want to argue points within it, then go right ahead.

 

But telling a person 'what are you doing here' 'please leave' etc. etc. etc. is extremely disrespectful.

 

While you may not agree with how she's coming to terms with the manga, it was not directed at any one person. Only an explanation of her feelings. She said in the end she didn't ship it, just understood. So what? That's perfectly reasonable way to try to make sense of this mess in the best way how. I suspect there are many more people like that who have already walked away from the whole series. 

 

This is still a tolerant site. No matter what. People are free to ship NS, and free to change their opinions. Argue the posts, do not bash the poster. The mods are getting tired of the extreme negativity that keeps flaring up and is directed at random individuals. 

 

Heaven & Earth is not Lord of the Flies. A changing opinion isn't going to do anymore damage to NS thatn Kishimoto already has. Get it together.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

And as for NH, who doesn't want a basic self insert to be with the MC? Who doesn't want the kicked puppy to get everything she/he deserves--or what they THINK they deserve/want?  Who doesn't want the perfect wife who will never disagree to your face, who will coddle and make you sammiches whenever your heart desires? Who has the perfect body and a "Anything you want dear!"  disposition? 

Its too perfect and thats the problem. 

 

 

I wonder how you see NS people.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Exactly ! People say- 'Oh Hinata jumped in to save Naruto without even thinking of her own life'. I say- She did so because she had no faith in Naruto and his abilities. 

 

That's another of the many things that NS has over NH- Faith.

 

Sakura had the utmost faith in Naruto. She called out for Naruto when the Leaf village was on the brink of destruction. She believed in Naruto's abilities more than anyone in the entire Shinobi world.

 

Hinata knew nothing about Naruto ! Hinata keeps talking about understanding Naruto's nindo but you know what's funny? Remember Sasuke retrieval arc? When Naruto gets kicked away by Tobi, Hinata loses her faith in him and starts Naruto-kunning. While Sakura says- " Hinata, something like that can never put down Naruto ! Keep your eye on the enemy ".

 

Says it all really. 

More importantly "Hinata understands Naruto! she's always been with him!" Doing what? WHERE WAS SHE? Where was she when Jiraiya died? Where was she when Sauske left? where was she when he was lonely, hurting and miserable? No where that he could see. 

"She supported him!" When? WHERE? how? when she couldn't decide who to cheer for? when she selfishly threw herself in front of him? when Sakura had to give her a lecture on Naruto? when she was dreaming of him and her on a bench, quietly doing nothing? ( So not Naruto, I'm sorry.) The only time she truly supported him was when she slapped him and it soon turned ugly as she fawned over his hand. 

Hinata doesn't know kitten about Naruto. She has an IDEAL version of him. 
 

And for the love of God let's stop saying to stop criticize Kishimoto, he wrote a kittening manga not the theory of the relativity or some kind of holy book (and those are criticized constantly anyway)! Critiques exist for a reason, and in his case he deserves them in spades.

Lol We're cursed when it comes to ships, I'm afraid.

-still crying and eating cookies over Bethyl- there is indeed something worse then having sunk ship- having half your ship destroyed as the other piece is left to roam around in misery.

 This bullsh** about not criticizing Kishi drives me up the freaking wall. So what, are critics going to be put to the death now? Fired? not allowed to make a living? EVERYONE has the right to be critical about the arts. EVERYONE has a right to their opinion, but that doesn't mean it can't be disputed. So they should DISPUTE our opinion, not attack our right TO SAY IT.
 

I wonder how you see NS people.

People who follow logic, and go where the story led them

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 03 December 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

People who follow logic, and go where the story led them

Aw... You told so much about people characters that looked for NH relation, I was intrested to read about those who looks up to NS 

[trang95]

More importantly "Hinata understands Naruto! she's always been with him!" Doing what? WHERE WAS SHE? Where was she when Jiraiya died? Where was she when Sauske left? where was she when he was lonely, hurting and miserable? No where that he could see. 

"She supported him!" When? WHERE? how? when she couldn't decide who to cheer for? when she selfishly threw herself in front of him? when Sakura had to give her a lecture on Naruto? when she was dreaming of him and her on a bench, quietly doing nothing? ( So not Naruto, I'm sorry.) The only time she truly supported him was when she slapped him and it soon turned ugly as she fawned over his hand. 

Hinata doesn't know kitten about Naruto. She has an IDEAL version of him. 
 

Lol We're cursed when it comes to ships, I'm afraid.

-still crying and eating cookies over Bethyl- there is indeed something worse then having sunk ship- having half your ship destroyed as the other piece is left to roam around in misery.

 This bullsh** about not criticizing Kishi drives me up the freaking wall. So what, are critics going to be put to the death now? Fired? not allowed to make a living? EVERYONE has the right to be critical about the arts. EVERYONE has a right to their opinion, but that doesn't mean it can't be disputed. So they should DISPUTE our opinion, not attack our right TO SAY IT.
 

People who follow logic, and go where the story led them

Honestly, I'd like to hear more, too ! What do you think of NaruSaku fans? We are not a perfect fandom after all, and are not better or worse than the other fandoms.

Edited by trang95, 03 December 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[FireFox]

Do not bash Lilac about her post. If you want to argue points within it, then go right ahead.

 

But telling a person 'what are you doing here' 'please leave' etc. etc. etc. is extremely disrespectful.

 

While you may not agree with how she's coming to terms with the manga, it was not directed at any one person. Only an explanation of her feelings. She said in the end she didn't ship it, just understood. So what? That's perfectly reasonable way to try to make sense of this mess in the best way how. I suspect there are many more people like that who have already walked away from the whole series. 

 

This is still a tolerant site. No matter what. People are free to ship NS, and free to change their opinions. Argue the posts, do not bash the poster. The mods are getting tired of the extreme negativity that keeps flaring up and is directed at random individuals. 

 

Heaven & Earth is not Lord of the Flies. A changing opinion isn't going to do anymore damage to NS thatn Kishimoto already has. Get it together.

I would have no problem with her "statement" if she didn't accuse the whole NS fandom of wearing only "shipping goggles" and that is why  we don't like or understand this ending  its also disrespectful to us  and its happening allot  and we are sick of hearing that despite saying its more then just shipping its getting repetitive I'm sure you can understand  this . @Lilac constantly comes here only to say that we have shipping goggles and accuse us of kitten   if she has come to terms with this manga its completely fine  but its not when she tries to accuse us and convince us of reading it wrong and wearing shipping goggles  I find that very offensive . 

 

But I'll stop here sorry for the commotion  .