9679 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

From what I've seen on other sites, Hinata's fans are pretty damn rabid especially on the Naruto Viz forums...

What else is new? They have been very upset since Naruto returned to Konoha on 450 with the NS hug and even worst when he still hasn't answer Hinata's confession. Looks like they will have to keep on waiting for like forever.

[Miss Soupy]

Guys, I don't think we should bring up fandoms. Technically it is against the rules to do so. Bring arguments and leave fandoms out of this please.

I agree that the 'deserving' argument is pretty weak. If you just go by that, I'm not sure who exactly would deserve Naruto since he is pretty much supposed to trump everyone. Hinata surely doesn't have anything over Sakura just because she loved him from the start. In fact, her loving him from the start is a huge weakness for that pairing because she did nothing for him. Her being shy isn't an excuse. She understood Naruto yet never helped remove his loneliness. At least Sakura would respond to his trouble-making. It might have been negative in nature, but for a lonely boy it sure meant more than someone watching him from afar.

[Nate River]

you dont bother with the ""character a deserves character b" argument. Its baseless and pointless.

Its an Argument based on personal opinion and worse its circular.

Sakura deserves Naruto because shes changes do much, she deserves Sasuke because shes stayed so loyal, Sasuke deserves Karin because she loves him, Sasuke deserves Sakura ebcause shes loyal, Naruto deserves Sakura becaue hes loved her always, Naruto deserves Hinata because she confessed, and so on and so forth I can find a deserves justification for any and every character in the series.

the say Sakura deosnt deserve Naruto but that Hinata does. but by that logic doesnt Naruto deserve Sakura since hes remained loyal to her?

its an argument with no end and nothing more then opinion to back it up. Sakura has done just as much for Naruto if not more then Hinata has done. And in point of fact even her actions during the confession can be viewed as questionable as they did not really make him safer in point of fact they endangered his life because as we learned the Kyubis cloak damages him and shortens his life.

So in conclusion she was actually worse for him then Sakuras ever been.

I agree and like to add a oouple of things. The argument itself misses the point. Deserved or not doesn't change the fact that it exists and concepts like love and romance don't work like that. Besides, it always tends to be one sided in the sense that Naruto should be with Hinata because Hinata deserves him. What about what Naruto wants? Is he obligated to return the love simply because she liked him initially or did x, y and z regardless of his actual feelings? It can go on like that for all the pairings where each person could be said to deserve someone else. I personally hate the sense of obligation that's attached to things like that.

What else is new? They have been very upset since Naruto returned to Konoha on 450 with the NS hug and even worst when he still hasn't answer Hinata's confession. Looks like they will have to keep on waiting for like forever.

I'm going to stop this line of debate right now.

First, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. There are plenty of rabid NS fans and I've seen a couple in this thread (without naming any names).

Second, I will not let this devolve into a whose tards are worse debate.

I agree that the 'deserving' argument is pretty weak. If you just go by that, I'm not sure who exactly would deserve Naruto since he is pretty much supposed to trump everyone. Hinata surely doesn't have anything over Sakura just because she loved him from the start. In fact, her loving him from the start is a huge weakness for that pairing because she did nothing for him. Her being shy isn't an excuse. She understood Naruto yet never helped remove his loneliness. At least Sakura would respond to his trouble-making. It might have been negative in nature, but for a lonely boy it sure meant more than someone watching him from afar.

Actually, that is why shyness is a character flaw. That and the very shy tend to be doormats. Hinata fans often play down this aspect of shyness, arguing that there is nothing wrong with being shy. While there is nothing inherently wrong with it and such people aren't bad people, it is considered a character flaw and for a reason.

[holy_demon]

At least Sakura would respond to his trouble-making. It might have been negative in nature, but for a lonely boy it sure meant more than someone watching him from afar.

Apparently Sakura was the first female to ever look his way and bother scolding him. She's pretty much a female same-age version of Iruka to Naruto, scolding him at first, acknowledging him later. Plus, boys at that age easily see that kind of harsh treatment as sisterly/motherly affection. especially to Naruto, an orphan, it's double score (I know for a fact that many pre-teen boys, me included, develop crush for female teacher/sister/cousin/classmate due to scolding/violence). Seeing that both kid and adult Naruto occasionally (and intentionally ?) get on Sakura's nerve just to get beaten up, I can almost understand where his adoration came from.

Anyway, we still have little idea of the reason Naruto likes/loves Sakura. All other pairings of the Big 4 have had theirs, SS's in Sakura's confession, NH's in Hinata's confession, even SN in VoTE. We still have no idea how Naruto was attracted to Sakura except that he thought her forehead "noble"(lol). So what do you guys think is Naruto's reason to love Sakura in the first place ?

Edited by holy_demon, 03 October 2010 - 04:53 AM.

[BlackLightning]

Err... a few things I have to ask whoever comes out with the argument regarding "A should b with B cos he/she deserve him": since when is human/characters become rewards to each other?... and what about the second party? What are they? pork chop?

[ciardha]

We still have no idea how Naruto was attracted to Sakura except that he thought her forehead "noble"(lol). So what do you guys think is Naruto's reason to love Sakura in the first place ?

Same as Minato for Kushina, something Sakura/Kushina got taunted about and didn't like was what Naruto/Minato thought was beautiful. In chapter 3 We know it was Sakura's looks overall that he liked and from what he says after he henges as Sasuke, something about her personality had drawn him to her unconsciously- and he partly figures it out then. In part two during the bell test we see he also finds her new strength appealing (very similar how Jiraiya finds Tsunade's strength sexy, Minato ditto for Kushina, even Shikamaru has his strongest positive reaction to Temari when she shows off her strength and skills and saves him.) as well as her medical ninjutsu abilities, he is not just amazed but blushes observing how easily she saved Kankuro

[holy_demon]

Same as Minato for Kushina, something Sakura/Kushina got taunted about and didn't like was what Naruto/Minato thought was beautiful. In chapter 3 We know it was Sakura's looks overall that he liked and from what he says after he henges as Sasuke, something about her personality had drawn him to her unconsciously- and he partly figures it out then. In part two during the bell test we see he also finds her new strength appealing (very similar how Jiraiya finds Tsunade's strength sexy, Minato ditto for Kushina, even Shikamaru has his strongest positive reaction to Temari when she shows off her strength and skills and saves him.) as well as her medical ninjutsu abilities, he is not just amazed but blushes observing how easily she saved Kankuro

I kinda have the same feeling too, that Naruto's old crush in part awakened and developed into love once he saw Sakura's abilities. Still, we probably have to wait until Naruto properly made his confession to Sakura (that's gonna be HUGE )

Talking about Minato and Kushina, if Kushina really fell in love with Minato just because of that compliment, I think I understand why Sakura was so pinned up on Sasuke, since she saw him as a perfect boyfriend material who can appreciate her as herself. Kinda suckish for Naruto, he freely gave away his ticket to Sakura's heart, to his rival no less.

Seriously, why can't Kishimoto make this manga's romance as simple as MinaKushi, or YahiKona ? It isn't even that focused on romance.

[Jenskott]

Not exactly a debate topic to start with, but what narusaku scene in the manga do you think the animators actually improved on, if any? It could be a debate topic if someone disagrees that the anime improved on it and undermined it instead. If you think the anime undermined it point out how.

Mm... I barely watch the anime, so I don't think of many examples... But I remember one scene stood out to me: during the Rescue Gaara arc, the group met -and fought- Itachi. Naruto got stuck in the Uchiha's illusion, but Sakura -and Chiyo- woke him up from it. Since he still seemed slightly stunned, Sakura touched his cheek.

In the manga, it seemed how if she was slapping him softly. But in the anime she softly puts her hand on his cheek, so she seems being caressing his face.

Hence, the anime team improved that scene.

I think there are more examples, but I can't remember them. Hmm... Well, when Sakura was contemplating her old Team 7 picture, during Naruto's elemental training, the scene was ambiguous. We didn't know what she was thinking. But the anime showed she was thinking specifically of Naruto.

Oh, and regarding the "Who deserves who" debate, I also think it is absurd and riduculous. Love doesn't work like that, and anyone can come up with an argument to tell character A deserves or doesn't deserve character B.

Naruto loves Sakura, no Hinata. Period. It is irrelevant if you think Sakura do or doesn't deserve Naruto, and she has objectivally done more things for him than Hinata (that isn't my inner fanboy talking. If you read the manga, Sakura HAS done more things for Naruto). He won't fall in love with Hinata because she supposedly deserves him more.

[catsi563]

actually even that scene was fanslated wrong. She does touch him on the cheek not slap him.

[Jenskott]

actually even that scene was fanslated wrong. She does touch him on the cheek not slap him.

I do not know what the fanslation would be like. I purchased the Naruto volume and read the official translation.

When I read the scene back then I wasn't sure if she was slapping him softly or simply putting her hand on his cheek. But the anime clearly established she brushed his cheek.

[Miss Soupy]

Anyway, we still have little idea of the reason Naruto likes/loves Sakura. All other pairings of the Big 4 have had theirs, SS's in Sakura's confession, NH's in Hinata's confession, even SN in VoTE. We still have no idea how Naruto was attracted to Sakura except that he thought her forehead "noble"(lol). So what do you guys think is Naruto's reason to love Sakura in the first place ?

I assumed it was because Sakura sought acknowledgment and would do anything for it. Because she said that he felt connected to her. She was someone like him, and at that stage that was what Naruto was looking for. He liked Sasuke for the same reason. He was similar to him, yet Sasuke was a prodigy which is why Naruto decided he was his rival. Both Sakura and Sasuke became important to him because they were like him in different ways.

That's why I think Hinata really missed her chance. Acknowledgment was also big for her character too, but she didn't show that to Naruto until after he had already chosen Sakura as his special person.

[holy_demon]

I assumed it was because Sakura sought acknowledgment and would do anything for it. Because she said that he felt connected to her. She was someone like him, and at that stage that was what Naruto was looking for. He liked Sasuke for the same reason. He was similar to him, yet Sasuke was a prodigy which is why Naruto decided he was his rival. Both Sakura and Sasuke became important to him because they were like him in different ways.

Sasuke didn't seek acknowledgement (well, he used to, until the massacre, but I doubt Sasuke ever talked to Naruto about his childhood)

Still it just confirmed that Naruto liked Sakura (like how he "liked" Hinata). How did it develop into love? I tend to think that he stopped crushing over her during his 3 training years, just to fall for her again when he came back. He didn't seem to be impressed by her new mature appearance (while Sakura blushed at the sight of his). Anyway, that's just my interpretation

Personally I could find a million reasons to like her (she's my favorite character, after all), and another million to hate her (former anti-Sakura here). I'm curious what Naruto could possibly see in her.

Edited by holy_demon, 04 October 2010 - 01:14 AM.

[maliousdei]

in my opinion, if someone like sai, who's a complete imbecile when it comes to people and social situations, is able to tell that naruto likes sakura, than you know that narutos got it bad for sakura.

[holy_demon]

in my opinion, if someone like sai, who's a complete imbecile when it comes to people and social situations, is able to tell that naruto likes sakura, than you know that narutos got it bad for sakura.

Actually that's also one of the best counter-argument anti-NS could pull. They rationalize that he misread Naruto's affection for Sakura as friend to love interest, due to his portrayed stupidity in human relationship (quote: "Naruto loves Sakura, but he isn't in love with her", hell I can't even tell the difference between "to love" and "to be in love"). They're mostly anti big 3, so it's pretty hard to debate against them, since my interpretation of NH and SS usually concur with theirs.

Edited by holy_demon, 04 October 2010 - 01:39 AM.

[maliousdei]

i can understand how they could use that as an argument, if it had not been for the next statements in the passage.

'I read it in a book. people always smile at the people they like, and your always smiling at her. did you tell her how you feel?'

and naruto's response as to why he hasn't confessed to sakura is.

'how can i? i can't even keep my promises.'

he can't confess because of the promise. and besides, whenever someone asks or says that to someone, they have a similar response. plus, when if he only loved her, and was not in love with her, than naruto wouldn't have the need to confess, and from what we saw in 457, he does but he can't because of the promise.

plus, they can't really use this as a response if they use the 'sakura loves sasuke so she'll kill him for him' argument.

Edited by maliousdei, 04 October 2010 - 01:49 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

Sasuke didn't seek acknowledgement (well, he used to, until the massacre, but I doubt Sasuke ever talked to Naruto about his childhood)

Still it just confirmed that Naruto liked Sakura (like how he "liked" Hinata). How did it develop into love? I tend to think that he stopped crushing over her during his 3 training years, just to fall for her again when he came back. He didn't seem to be impressed by her new mature appearance (while Sakura blushed at the sight of his). Anyway, that's just my interpretation

I didn't mean that Sasuke wanted acknowledgment. Sasuke and Sakura were important for different reasons. Sasuke was like Naruto in that he was alone. That is why Naruto felt connected to Sasuke. Remember how they looked at each other when they were young?

Naruto was definitely in love with her at the time of the POAL. Since nothing else was indicated outside of the bench scene, I think he already loved her at that point. It seemed to be a much more important moment than him 'liking' Hinata too. Naruto saying he remembered why he liked her, to me, indicated much more than that. That line always seemed like he was saying that he recalled all over again why he loved Sakura. Because she was like him and he felt close to her because of that. And I think Naruto didn't say much about Sakura when he saw her again because to him she was still the same person he loved.

[maliousdei]

so, does anyone really think sai misunderstood naruto's feelings for sakura?

[holy_demon]

and naruto's response as to why he hasn't confessed to sakura is.

'how can i? i can't even keep my promises.'

he can't confess because of the promise. and besides, whenever someone asks or says that to someone, they have a similar response. plus, when if he only loved her, and was not in love with her, than naruto wouldn't have the need to confess, and from what we saw in 457, he does but he can't because of the promise.

plus, they can't really use this as a response if they use the 'sakura loves sasuke so she'll kill him for him' argument.

Yep, Naruto was shown to be flustered when Sai questionned him. It would be weird if he couldn't tell a girl that she likes her in a friendly; hence he must see her in a romantic light. Still, the anti-NS said that his anxiety was fueled by his guilt of not bringing back Sasuke, that he doesn't see himself worthy to be Sakura's friend. Personally that argument doesn't make sense to me, but it's not that easy to counter either.

Btw, those anti-NS I converse it actually like NaruSaku sibling-like friendship a lot, so they actually agreed that Sakura did all of those for Naruto, who is her most precious friend, and that Sai was completely wrong about both his interpretations of Naruto and Sakura's love life. However, they criticize Sakura harshly for her fake confession, and for complete ignorance of Naruto's wants.

Naruto was definitely in love with her at the time of the POAL. Since nothing else was indicated outside of the bench scene, I think he already loved her at that point. It seemed to be a much more important moment than him 'liking' Hinata too. Naruto saying he remembered why he liked her, to me, indicated much more than that. That line always seemed like he was saying that he recalled all over again why he loved Sakura. Because she was like him and he felt close to her because of that. And I think Naruto didn't say much about Sakura when he saw her again because to him she was still the same person he loved.

While I partly admire a faithful love, realistically, 3 years of constant love with no interaction or any promise just doesn't make sense to me (we already know how hard it is to maintain long-distrance established relationship). I'd rather believe that Naruto fell in love with her twice, once in the beginning of part 1, and second after watching her healing Kankuro in part 2(the line "Sakura-chan is amazing!"). Then I'd have the reason to believe that Sakura has stopped loving Sasuke, and to avoid double-standard.

Edited by holy_demon, 04 October 2010 - 04:58 AM.

[catsi563]

actually if you want the second moment when he falls for her again its when she cracks the earth open in their second bell test.

the look on his face is priceless, and the follow up fond smile just says a million words. When she heals Kankuro just further reinforces.

In many ways part 2 does a reversal of the patient love from Naruto to Sakura. Here it is Naruto seeing how far Sakura has grown and changed, How shes become stronger and more sure of herself. Much as Sakura saw the same in Naruto in part 1.

The pair have seen each others worth now and now must move forward towards mutual acknowledgement.

[maliousdei]

what makes me angry about the anti-NS is that they double standard everything narusaku. if it's sakura offering to feed naruto ramen, or blushes for him, or hugs him while caressing his neck for gods sakes, they pass it off as being like siblings, but if naruto so much as says hi to hinata, it's canon.

but again, if naruto only liked sakura as a friend, then he wouldn't feel the desire to tell her how he feels.

also, even though they are currently still only friends, that doesn't mean their feelings for one another aren't more than mere friendship.

but seriously, who could believe that he only liked her as friend from that statement?