4869 replies to this topic

[Jenskott]

Wait......." what? I have not idea why they think that Sai x Sakura has a huge chance of becoming canon.

Perhaps they are NH fans and they are so frightened -since Hinata has dissappeared again and Naruto hasn't said one word to her or about her- that they're desperate for someone taking The Pink Menace away?

Or maybe they're SaiSaku fans. I don't know. I haven't read the original "arguments" because honestly I'd be wasting my time.

After all, some GaaSaku fans are downright convinced GaaSaku will happen. I have seen some of them telling: "I'll be surprised if they don't end up together".

I don't know where they got that idea. It's completely random. And it completely ignores Kishimoto DOESN'T need making canon pairings in order to close his history. Therefore, why would he make something so sudden and silly and with no build-up when he does NOT need?

Jungian Archetypes in Naruto.

The theory itself is already complex enough, no need to murder teenage minds with complex philosophical terms and psychological interpretations on the human nature.

I yet don't understand why or how other shippers cook up those... theorems. It's completely farfetched.

I'm going to read Aristotle, Saint Thomas Aquinas and Kant's books in order to fabricate a theory will prove Naruto /Tayuya, SakuKarin and Tazuna/Moegi will happen inevitably.

But I guess it gives the fanboys ammo...

Yes. Rubber bullets. They are harmless but they annoying.

[catsi563]

Ill try my best cover each point in turn for you

) Naruto won't accept/has any reason to accept Hinata's feelings because he is either in love or "madly" in love with Sakura.

-I must be missing something...Naruto has shown affection to Sakura throughout the series of Naruto however it has only been just a "crush". Much like the NaruHina was assumed to be until a confession confirmed it was "Love". Granted it is still one-sided. Thing is Naruto has NEVER said "I love you Sakura." Or anything pertaining. Even in these recent chapters Naruto has not shown any feelings romantically for Sakura.

first your in correct in that he has never shown any affection to Sakura through out ther series. in point of fact he has shown multiple instances of affection towards her, but these like most of the narusaku relationship are subtle and in line with other similar relationships in Shonen manga. In regards to it being a crush this is in correct maybe at first but not after part 2 began.

Crushes do not stand aside for another guy so the woman in qustion can be happy, crushes do not try and assure the woman in question that the one they claim to love will be fine and wont leave for power or revenge, crushes do not make a lifetime promise and then proceed to put their life on the line literally to retrieve the crush of said woman for the sole purpose of making her happy.

these are not the actions of a "crush" these are the actions of a someone with a boog heart who holds a person in a very special place in that heart. the willingness to sacrafice ones own happiness for that special person even if it costs you your very life is a powerful element in japanese culture and story telling especially when it comes to romance.

in regards to never saying I love you this is also an element of Shonen story telling. one best exemplified by Ruroni kenshin where he in the end never tells the girl he loves that he loves her. no he Like Naruto tells her something far more important in Japanese culture.

I will protect you with my life. and then proceeds to do so.

in part 2 these moments are amplified even more by naruto doing what he can to protect Sakuras feelings when shes confronted by Karuis questions about Sasuke.

Naruto and Sakura are a slow developing relationship one that is based on trust and a slow growing affection between them

Hinatas confession was an amazing moment for her I agree but it is not the dazzling light and music from heaven confesison of ZOMGeverlasitng true lub that many would have you believe. It is a self confessed "Selfish confession" one done int he heat of the moment by a person who again self confessed believes she is going to die. and nearly does.

the confession in this context is done to show Hinatas final growth as a person from someone too afraid to talk to naruto to one willing to as she herself puts it willing to stand at his side instead of in his shadow. thus she steps up, but with that confession she also closes any doors because the development she needs to turn that confession into a romantic one is not present. Kishimoto has not developed Hinatas character for nearly 450+ chapters and with out that development thta someone like Sakura has recieved any further action becomes forced and unbvelieveable.

) Sakura trumping Hinata.

-I never understood why NaruSaku fans figured as soon as Sakura was willing to Naruto how she felt(hypothetically loves him) that would seal the deal for Naruto. He would just completely drop Hinata/Her feelings are just dropped. Something popularly tied with this is the fact that NaruHina is one-sided. Is this any different than NaruSaku though? Naruto likes Sakura but the feelings are not mutual. If anything I still think Sakura still has feeling for Sasuke after chapter 453. After Kauri tells them that Sasuke is in the Akatsuki she says somthing along the lines of "What's Sasuke to you?!" to which Sakura replies, "I...I..." and then falls to her knees crying. Now no one knows what she was going to say but this kind of goes hand in hand with Yamato's speech and nobody seemed to have a problem guessing what he was leading up to.

Wouldnt it for you? the girl of your dreams whom you dont know if youll ever get a chance with tells you shes willing? would you doubt it? or would you dive headfirst into it with all your heart?

Naruhina is one sided im sorry to say this my friend but Naruhina is probably the most onesided pairing in the history of manga. Naruto has had count them "one" a grand total of one interaction with her that could be considered serious character based development. once in 450+ chapters, this especially with multuple chapters where Kishimoto could have deliberatley put in moments where they could have interacted or discussed feelings. He ha sintentionally done this.

this leads to only one logical conclusion. that Sakura a ahcaracter who has interacted with him from chapter 3 onwards to now has been a character of priority to him. We have seen multiple examples of Sakuras growth not only as a person but as a characte rin the story and with her feelings towards Naruto.

With Hinata we have seen honestly Zero growth. shes the same character she was in part 1 only with ((no offence )) longer hair and bigger boobs. Again dont get me wrong i think hinatas a sweetheart but she ahs had zero development compared to sakura.

As to Sakura yes she does have something about sasuke she needs to confront but that is a discussion for another time. Suffice it to say but her reaction in that moment is understandable a person she may still love has joined an organization that is intent on harvesting her friend and teamate (naruto) another person she may love, and who is responsible for destroying her village and putting her master in a coma.

Im surprised all she did was cry the emotional backlash on Sakura would be enormous.

As to Yamato other hints have been dropped by Sai of all people and kakashi and Tsunade in regards to how Sakura feels to Naruto and Sakuras own actions also speak to this, her willingness to throw ehrself at the 4 tailed Naruto to save him, her willingness to feed him (a very intimate action in japanese culture), her calling for him to return when all hope seemed lost, and lastly the Hug.

) Hug > Confession

WHAT?! Now I'm not the NaruHina fan that's going to scrap that into a brother sister hug since...Well I have NEVER hugged my sister liked that. (Hand on the face, cheeks touching all that good stuff...) But it would be unfair to say that, that was a HUGE step for NaruSaku because well...it wasn't. Just like the confession Naruto did not reply to Hinata/ Naruto did not hug Sakura back. But for anyone to say those moments are on equal grounds is full of it.

the hug is more signifigant then the confession and it is a HUGE moment for them because of one innarguable fact.

Sakura is the one who initiates it. from 450+ chapters when she began bys aying the one I hate is naruto, to now when she sees him alive and initates as you yourself put it an intimate full body hug. this is a sign of her "still growing" but very strong feelings towards him and more importantly she does so in FULL view of peers, family, friends and complete strangers.

As to Naruto not hugging her back he was in shock, rememebr the gal of his dreams hugs him out of nowhere and whispers thank you look at his eyes hes not angry or upset with her, hes gobsmacked, wide eyed with is she hugging me? reactions.

And if you want further proof of how the hug is taken amongst the crowd just look at Hinatas reaction on the very next page. She is wide eyed and smiling, her reaction is clearly shown in a single panel that focuses on her face. The only reason for an artist to draw a persons face in this context is to show the persons facial expressions and reactions to an event, and to emphasize that specific persons reactions.

she is shown with a warm and open expresion fo happiness and acceptance, meaning she understands this and is happy for him.

Think of it this way. What if it was a different situation...Hinata never said I love you and the battle was won. And the Naruto/Sakura vs Sasuke fight has begun. Along the way Sakura confesses. First of all be honest... You'd milk that hell of that. Much like we did. Anyway Naruto gets back and Hinata gives him a hug and says something like "Thank God your ok." Does that seem even?

Ill deal with this separately due to it being a separate scenario.

What if Hianta never said I love you? how would I ask you. this be any different from what happened prior to the act in question. it wouldnt be any different for Hinata shed still be a background character whos plot relevance went out with the chunin exams in part one.

If Sakura confesses< yeah we would milk the heck out of it, after all for Sakura it would be a HUGE character moment for her, a moment where she stands up and takes her feelings in her hands and makes a deliberate and direct choice between Sasuke and Naruto, and when she choses Naruto she choses to follow the feelings and growth in her heart that have been occuring since chapter 3 where she hesitantly says "maybe I shoudl try being nicer to naruto"

Naruto gets back and hinata gives hima hug. now Id have an issue with this because it would be incredibley out of character for Hinata and come from Nowhere. Sakura at leats has had the character devleopment to this point to justify her rushing up and hugging naruto (after clobebering him for being an reckless idiot again) the moment of affection between them has been building for 450+ chapters and was well done.

But shy little Hinata ((who hasnt confessed)) faints constantly around him and turns redder then a tomatoe when he looks in her direction suddenly fidns the courage out fo nowhere to rush up and give him a big hug. Please my suspencion of disbelief only goes so far.


In conclusion the essence of what youve asked is why these are important, they are important becase they come at a peak moment between Naruto and Sakura, moments when after long and carefully done character devleopment the two express affection for each other in their own way. Naruto through Sacrafice, and Sakura through expressing emotions and actions that 447+ chapters ago would have been all but laughable.

What makes part of this diffiuclt is that many people in my opinion misunderstand Hinatas character. they take the shyness and confession and lump it into ZOMGItmustbelub !! reactions.

but Hinatas in many ways is not a character based on love like Sakura is. Hinatas character is based on her admiration for Naruto and her ((again self admitted)) desire to surpass him the person who has inspired her to not be a quitter or loser.

Naruto is much to Hinata what Sasuke is to Naruto in someways. He is her unreachable goal the element which pushes her to excel. her crush on him is legit but is part of her admiration for him and must be viewed in this context since it is spoken in this fashion from her own words in the manga.

ironically in the very same chapter which leads to the oft debated confession.

if you want an alternate view of what I believe Hinatas true courage would be , check out my fan fiction.net page and look for my story Where I stood. It has a good grasp of what I think Hinatas thoughts and growth might be in the future.

[Nee-sama]

Before we get started, let it be known that I am a NaruHina fan...I know, I know...But I am not a rabid "OMFGBBQNARUHINAFTW!!!" I am open to the idea of NaruSaku so long as Kishimoto could resolve Hinata feelings in such a way she ends up accepting NaruSaku. However I don't see that happening after the confession. Now before any of you ask "The hell are you doing here?" Well that's because at any NaruHina forum I have been to it's all to obviously biased. A Naruto forum...Well that just leads to a paring war which gets no where. Hopefully somebody here is a bit more open minded. Now I'll only mention a few points that NaruSaku fans have mentioned that have truly irked me, and please, if there was a point that makes you made about us please fill me in.

1) Naruto won't accept/has any reason to accept Hinata's feelings because he is either in love or "madly" in love with Sakura.

-I must be missing something...Naruto has shown affection to Sakura throughout the series of Naruto however it has only been just a "crush". Much like the NaruHina was assumed to be until a confession confirmed it was "Love". Granted it is still one-sided. Thing is Naruto has NEVER said "I love you Sakura." Or anything pertaining. Even in these recent chapters Naruto has not shown any feelings romantically for Sakura.

2) Sakura trumping Hinata.

-I never understood why NaruSaku fans figured as soon as Sakura was willing to Naruto how she felt(hypothetically loves him) that would seal the deal for Naruto. He would just completely drop Hinata/Her feelings are just dropped. Something popularly tied with this is the fact that NaruHina is one-sided. Is this any different than NaruSaku though? Naruto likes Sakura but the feelings are not mutual. If anything I still think Sakura still has feeling for Sasuke after chapter 453. After Kauri tells them that Sasuke is in the Akatsuki she says somthing along the lines of "What's Sasuke to you?!" to which Sakura replies, "I...I..." and then falls to her knees crying. Now no one knows what she was going to say but this kind of goes hand in hand with Yamato's speech and nobody seemed to have a problem guessing what he was leading up to.

3) Hug > Confession

WHAT?! Now I'm not the NaruHina fan that's going to scrap that into a brother sister hug since...Well I have NEVER hugged my sister liked that. (Hand on the face, cheeks touching all that good stuff...) But it would be unfair to say that, that was a HUGE step for NaruSaku because well...it wasn't. Just like the confession Naruto did not reply to Hinata/ Naruto did not hug Sakura back. But for anyone to say those moments are on equal grounds is full of it. Think of it this way. What if it was a different situation...Hinata never said I love you and the battle was won. And the Naruto/Sakura vs Sasuke fight has begun. Along the way Sakura confesses. First of all be honest... You'd milk that hell of that. Much like we did. Anyway Naruto gets back and Hinata gives him a hug and says something like "Thank God your ok." Does that seem even?
~~~~~~~~
Well those are the points that are always brought up to me that irritate me the most. Please, no bashing! However feel free to tell me your guys interruptions of the moments and my opinion. I did compare NaruHina and NaruSaku throughout so I expect the same of you. However don't be completely blind to the NaruHina side. Thanks for reading! Oh yah...If you don't mind, if you don't like/hate NaruHina, please tell me why.

So I just copied your post in the correct thread since yours got closed down and I want to respond. Though I see some people beat me to it meh

Number 1) This is a story, not real life. "Just a crush" doesn't exist in the literary world, especially when you're talking about the Hero.
I can point out a few concrete examples of his love as well. Chapter -3-, here we see Sakura introduced for the first time and it's made perfectly clear what Naruto thinks of this girl. No other girl receives even half of this amount of attention that Naruto focuses on her. Shortly after that, when we see the almost-kiss Naruto realizes why he likes Sakura, which is huge because it distinguishes her from others. Hinata is bright and beautiful, just like Sakura, but the reason Naruto doesn't see Hinata in that light is because Sakura is his emotional equal. Meaning, what he realized from transforming into Sasuke and talking with Sakura is that she thinks like him. She is virtuous and seeks acknowledgment just like him, plus after the Haku/Zabuza fight we see that she has the same philosophy and beliefs as him. An example of how Sakura's behavior matches Naruto's more than Hinata's is the obvious fact that Sakura isn't ashamed or too shy to show her affection for Sasuke, whereas Hinata can't admit her crush on Naruto to anyone.

Furthermore, Naruto willingly, completely, unquestionably sacrifices his own happiness for the sake of Sakura's happiness. Promise of a Lifetime, "I'll bring Sasuke back" -for you-. Obviously, he was already going to try and bring Sasuke back cuz that's his buddy, but he went ahead and made his self-sacrificing life-time promise to Sakura just to ease her broken heart. Is this something you would do for someone you think you kinda might like a little bit?

It's at this point in the story, after the promise, that he stops "pursuing" Sakura and doesn't show his affection almost to the point of trying to hide it altogether.

You're right about Sakura having feelings for Sasuke still. It shows in her eyes in the reunion scene post timeskip, and I think it shows in chapter 319. However, you can't deny that Naruto has also grown in her mind as just as important a person as Sasuke. Evidence of that can be seen as early as chapter 236.
The difference between Sakura's converstaion with Yamato and with Karui is this: Yamato spent time with her and was making a statement based on observation, whereas Karui was asking a direct question for an answer that was not so obvious. And Sakura couldn't answer one way or another. Why? It's not because she couldn't admit her feelings for Sasuke, but because she is feeling conflicted. Sakura never got any closure after Sasuke left, and that is to say that she still has a lot to say to that guy!

Thank you for admiting that was no bro-sis hug! But you're right, although it was FABULOUS to see and led to much great fanart, it wasn't much of a step in the right NS direction. Well, let's face it. Naruto's trying to hide his feelings for the sake of keeping his promise and she keeps trying to feed him ramen and hug him... she don't know how hard she's making it for him.



So, could Sakura's mixed feelings and previous rejections lead to Naruto finding happiness with Hinata? The answer, still, is no. They would not be able to have a intimate relationship because 1)Naruto is a busy guy.. he's got a world to save and a hokage-ship to earn&keep so that pretty much leaves no time for dating a kunoichi that is also busy with missions and being the heir to the leadership of the Hyuuga clan 2)Naruto will probably never be able to "move-on" from his feelings for Sakura and sadly his life-time promise and it just wouldn't be fair if he was with Hinata but still dreaming of the past. (Once again, this isn't real life, so even though there are couples who have done exactly what I just described as impossible for Naruto, it's not going to happen in this manga.)
Does this also mean that Sakura can never have an intimate relationship with Naruto because of her first love for Sasuke? NO! Because they have always been together, their relationship has developed beyond friends. They are partners already, in work and life, if not romance... yet.

[NaruxHinaxSaku]

Ill try my best cover each point in turn for you

First let me start by saying thank you for not flaming me and showing your views on NaruSaku.

first your in correct in that he has never shown any affection to Sakura through out ther series. in point of fact he has shown multiple instances of affection towards her, but these like most of the narusaku relationship are subtle and in line with other similar relationships in Shonen manga. In regards to it being a crush this is in correct maybe at first but not after part 2 began.

Crushes do not stand aside for another guy so the woman in qustion can be happy, crushes do not try and assure the woman in question that the one they claim to love will be fine and wont leave for power or revenge, crushes do not make a lifetime promise and then proceed to put their life on the line literally to retrieve the crush of said woman for the sole purpose of making her happy.

these are not the actions of a "crush" these are the actions of a someone with a boog heart who holds a person in a very special place in that heart. the willingness to sacrafice ones own happiness for that special person even if it costs you your very life is a powerful element in japanese culture and story telling especially when it comes to romance.

in regards to never saying I love you this is also an element of Shonen story telling. one best exemplified by Ruroni kenshin where he in the end never tells the girl he loves that he loves her. no he Like Naruto tells her something far more important in Japanese culture.

I will protect you with my life. and then proceeds to do so.

in part 2 these moments are amplified even more by naruto doing what he can to protect Sakuras feelings when shes confronted by Karuis questions about Sasuke.

Naruto and Sakura are a slow developing relationship one that is based on trust and a slow growing affection between them

Hinatas confession was an amazing moment for her I agree but it is not the dazzling light and music from heaven confesison of ZOMGeverlasitng true lub that many would have you believe. It is a self confessed "Selfish confession" one done int he heat of the moment by a person who again self confessed believes she is going to die. and nearly does.

the confession in this context is done to show Hinatas final growth as a person from someone too afraid to talk to naruto to one willing to as she herself puts it willing to stand at his side instead of in his shadow. thus she steps up, but with that confession she also closes any doors because the development she needs to turn that confession into a romantic one is not present. Kishimoto has not developed Hinatas character for nearly 450+ chapters and with out that development thta someone like Sakura has recieved any further action becomes forced and unbvelieveable.

Nicely put, but wouldn't you do that for a dear friend as well? I mean they have known each other for quite a while now. I couldn't imagine not willing to put your life on the line for a friend. I just so you know...I didn't see the confession as a "OMFGNARUHINAFTW!!11"...I realized that the moment although touching, was still one-sided. And realistically, how could Kishimoto actually get Naruto to have a moment with Hinata other than such a sporadic moment like that? What was he going to do? Stop the Manga have em' sit down and talk about there feelings...? Obviously couldn't happen like that. As far as Sakura and Naruto spending loads of time together, well to me doesn't hold to much water since they don't have a moment every single time there together. To say NaruSaku is still developing slowly but surely is like the whole Patient Love thing, still, the fact that Naruto is with Sakura ALL the time is without question helpful and needed for a believable bond to form to have a relationship.

Wouldnt it for you? the girl of your dreams whom you dont know if youll ever get a chance with tells you shes willing? would you doubt it? or would you dive headfirst into it with all your heart?

Whoa...? Since when was Sakura the girl of his dreams? To like someone isn't enough but there instantly the epitome for you? I have a bit of trouble with that...And apart from being biased...I wouldn't be against the idea of giving someone a chance either, I.E. Hinata. Especially with the way he is.

Naruhina is one sided im sorry to say this my friend but Naruhina is probably the most onesided pairing in the history of manga. Naruto has had count them "one" a grand total of one interaction with her that could be considered serious character based development. once in 450+ chapters, this especially with multuple chapters where Kishimoto could have deliberatley put in moments where they could have interacted or discussed feelings. He ha sintentionally done this.

this leads to only one logical conclusion. that Sakura a ahcaracter who has interacted with him from chapter 3 onwards to now has been a character of priority to him. We have seen multiple examples of Sakuras growth not only as a person but as a characte rin the story and with her feelings towards Naruto.

With Hinata we have seen honestly Zero growth. shes the same character she was in part 1 only with ((no offence )) longer hair and bigger boobs. Again dont get me wrong i think hinatas a sweetheart but she ahs had zero development compared to sakura.

And NaruSaku isn't? The main base for NaruSaku is completely hypothetical as is NaruHina. An assumption, "Sakura is ALWAYS with Naruto! She must have some romantic affection by now!" = "Hinata finally said it! Why would Naruto say no?!"
To say Naruto still likes Sakura well...Don't you think it would only be fair to assume that Sakura still has feeling for Sasuke? Growth...I have read the NaruSaku manifesto and it seems in terms of "growth" for Sakura's feeling for Naruto. We've gone from, "I hate Naruto" to someone she could admire, I suppose this could to lead to some romantic feelings however this was about square one for NaruHina, we knew that Hinata admired him but...That was it. For Hinata's growth thoguh, Zero? That's a bit harsh don't you think? For someone to go from a stuttering wreck who could not articulate herself for more than 2 seconds before fainting to willing to die for the one she loved? "Zero"...? Tough crowd...

As to Sakura yes she does have something about sasuke she needs to confront but that is a discussion for another time. Suffice it to say but her reaction in that moment is understandable a person she may still love has joined an organization that is intent on harvesting her friend and teamate (naruto) another person she may love, and who is responsible for destroying her village and putting her master in a coma.

Disregard my SasuSaku comment...I'm answering as I read... Lol thanks for the open-mindedness.

Im surprised all she did was cry the emotional backlash on Sakura would be enormous.

As to Yamato other hints have been dropped by Sai of all people and kakashi and Tsunade in regards to how Sakura feels to Naruto and Sakuras own actions also speak to this, her willingness to throw ehrself at the 4 tailed Naruto to save him, her willingness to feed him (a very intimate action in japanese culture), her calling for him to return when all hope seemed lost, and lastly the Hug.




the hug is more signifigant then the confession and it is a HUGE moment for them because of one innarguable fact.

Sakura is the one who initiates it. from 450+ chapters when she began bys aying the one I hate is naruto, to now when she sees him alive and initates as you yourself put it an intimate full body hug. this is a sign of her "still growing" but very strong feelings towards him and more importantly she does so in FULL view of peers, family, friends and complete strangers.

As to Naruto not hugging her back he was in shock, rememebr the gal of his dreams hugs him out of nowhere and whispers thank you look at his eyes hes not angry or upset with her, hes gobsmacked, wide eyed with is she hugging me? reactions.

Same can be said for the confession. Hinata did that because she wanted to (Der...) die protecting the one she loved; or at least attempt it. Hinata's growth at it's best. As for Naruto not responding...Think of the circumstances. "Balls...I'm about to get got by Pain...Hinata...?! The hell are you doing here?! GTFO! Wait you love me...?" *Brain dies* To be so utterly hated by everyone for a pretty good portion on your life. You only bond being that of friendship and then for someone to come out and say "I love you!" Pretty sure anybody would be a bit dumbfounded.

And if you want further proof of how the hug is taken amongst the crowd just look at Hinatas reaction on the very next page. She is wide eyed and smiling, her reaction is clearly shown in a single panel that focuses on her face. The only reason for an artist to draw a persons face in this context is to show the persons facial expressions and reactions to an event, and to emphasize that specific persons reactions.

she is shown with a warm and open expresion fo happiness and acceptance, meaning she understands this and is happy for him.

I really do hope you aren't one of those people that figures "Hinata supports NaruSaku!" She's happy for the same reason Sakura is, He's ok! He just came back, alive. And you've already mentioned it, Sakura has been the one with him this whole time. Don't you think it'd be right for her to give him the hug? It's not like Kishimoto could have had Hinata do it. I'm a NaruHina fan saying that would have been bad placement for a moment...


Ill deal with this separately due to it being a separate scenario.

What if Hianta never said I love you? how would I ask you. this be any different from what happened prior to the act in question. it wouldnt be any different for Hinata shed still be a background character whos plot relevance went out with the chunin exams in part one.

If Sakura confesses< yeah we would milk the heck out of it, after all for Sakura it would be a HUGE character moment for her, a moment where she stands up and takes her feelings in her hands and makes a deliberate and direct choice between Sasuke and Naruto, and when she choses Naruto she choses to follow the feelings and growth in her heart that have been occuring since chapter 3 where she hesitantly says "maybe I shoudl try being nicer to naruto"

I think I forgot to point my issue out with this one...So what Sakura going to do? Settle for Naruto? Remember when Sasuke was leaving the village? Sakura~ "I love you so much I can't stand it!" And then something along the lines of her going with him. And then many chapters later for her to go... "Eh Naruto, we been together a while right? ~NaruSaku thing~ I love you now!" Doesn't that make her seem a bit floozy?

Naruto gets back and hinata gives hima hug. now Id have an issue with this because it would be incredibley out of character for Hinata and come from Nowhere. Sakura at leats has had the character devleopment to this point to justify her rushing up and hugging naruto (after clobebering him for being an reckless idiot again) the moment of affection between them has been building for 450+ chapters and was well done.

But shy little Hinata ((who hasnt confessed)) faints constantly around him and turns redder then a tomatoe when he looks in her direction suddenly fidns the courage out fo nowhere to rush up and give him a big hug. Please my suspencion of disbelief only goes so far.

I did take that a bit far didn't I...? Lol

In conclusion the essence of what youve asked is why these are important, they are important becase they come at a peak moment between Naruto and Sakura, moments when after long and carefully done character devleopment the two express affection for each other in their own way. Naruto through Sacrafice, and Sakura through expressing emotions and actions that 447+ chapters ago would have been all but laughable.

What makes part of this diffiuclt is that many people in my opinion misunderstand Hinatas character. they take the shyness and confession and lump it into ZOMGItmustbelub !! reactions.

but Hinatas in many ways is not a character based on love like Sakura is. Hinatas character is based on her admiration for Naruto and her ((again self admitted)) desire to surpass him the person who has inspired her to not be a quitter or loser.

Oh what the hell...Where still on her admiration bit?! "I love=admire you!" Your making this hard...I'm trying to see eye to eye but for god sakes man! Just because you wish something didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Naruto is much to Hinata what Sasuke is to Naruto in someways. He is her unreachable goal the element which pushes her to excel. her crush on him is legit but is part of her admiration for him and must be viewed in this context since it is spoken in this fashion from her own words in the manga.

More than a crush now...but again...Thank you for your opinion

ironically in the very same chapter which leads to the oft debated confession.

if you want an alternate view of what I believe Hinatas true courage would be , check out my fan fiction.net page and look for my story Where I stood. It has a good grasp of what I think Hinatas thoughts and growth might be in the future.

[NaruxHinaxSaku]

So I just copied your post in the correct thread since yours got closed down and I want to respond. Though I see some people beat me to it meh

Number 1) This is a story, not real life. "Just a crush" doesn't exist in the literary world, especially when you're talking about the Hero.
I can point out a few concrete examples of his love as well. Chapter -3-, here we see Sakura introduced for the first time and it's made perfectly clear what Naruto thinks of this girl. No other girl receives even half of this amount of attention that Naruto focuses on her. Shortly after that, when we see the almost-kiss Naruto realizes why he likes Sakura, which is huge because it distinguishes her from others. Hinata is bright and beautiful, just like Sakura, but the reason Naruto doesn't see Hinata in that light is because Sakura is his emotional equal. Meaning, what he realized from transforming into Sasuke and talking with Sakura is that she thinks like him. She is virtuous and seeks acknowledgment just like him, plus after the Haku/Zabuza fight we see that she has the same philosophy and beliefs as him. An example of how Sakura's behavior matches Naruto's more than Hinata's is the obvious fact that Sakura isn't ashamed or too shy to show her affection for Sasuke, whereas Hinata can't admit her crush on Naruto to anyone.

Furthermore, Naruto willingly, completely, unquestionably sacrifices his own happiness for the sake of Sakura's happiness. Promise of a Lifetime, "I'll bring Sasuke back" -for you-. Obviously, he was already going to try and bring Sasuke back cuz that's his buddy, but he went ahead and made his self-sacrificing life-time promise to Sakura just to ease her broken heart. Is this something you would do for someone you think you kinda might like a little bit?

It's at this point in the story, after the promise, that he stops "pursuing" Sakura and doesn't show his affection almost to the point of trying to hide it altogether.

You're right about Sakura having feelings for Sasuke still. It shows in her eyes in the reunion scene post timeskip, and I think it shows in chapter 319. However, you can't deny that Naruto has also grown in her mind as just as important a person as Sasuke. Evidence of that can be seen as early as chapter 236.
The difference between Sakura's converstaion with Yamato and with Karui is this: Yamato spent time with her and was making a statement based on observation, whereas Karui was asking a direct question for an answer that was not so obvious. And Sakura couldn't answer one way or another. Why? It's not because she couldn't admit her feelings for Sasuke, but because she is feeling conflicted. Sakura never got any closure after Sasuke left, and that is to say that she still has a lot to say to that guy!

Thank you for admiting that was no bro-sis hug! But you're right, although it was FABULOUS to see and led to much great fanart, it wasn't much of a step in the right NS direction. Well, let's face it. Naruto's trying to hide his feelings for the sake of keeping his promise and she keeps trying to feed him ramen and hug him... she don't know how hard she's making it for him.



So, could Sakura's mixed feelings and previous rejections lead to Naruto finding happiness with Hinata? The answer, still, is no. They would not be able to have a intimate relationship because 1)Naruto is a busy guy.. he's got a world to save and a hokage-ship to earn&keep so that pretty much leaves no time for dating a kunoichi that is also busy with missions and being the heir to the leadership of the Hyuuga clan 2)Naruto will probably never be able to "move-on" from his feelings for Sakura and sadly his life-time promise and it just wouldn't be fair if he was with Hinata but still dreaming of the past. (Once again, this isn't real life, so even though there are couples who have done exactly what I just described as impossible for Naruto, it's not going to happen in this manga.)
Does this also mean that Sakura can never have an intimate relationship with Naruto because of her first love for Sasuke? NO! Because they have always been together, their relationship has developed beyond friends. They are partners already, in work and life, if not romance... yet.

Lol I pretty much said what I thought on what you said in my replay to catsi...So please check that out if you want a round about thing of what I would have said to you. However...I believe your a bit to biased to talk to on the subject due to you view though D:...When I say that I mean you saying "NaruHina...? No way in hell" again para-phrasing. Lol but thanks for your opinion and not flaming me

[Kyuudaime]

No need to flame you, I do believe this site doesn't have many users that do that.
I for one am glad you came here to give out your thoughts.
Haruno, don't you think "Hinatatards" is a bit like bashing?

Edited by Shirosaki, 24 July 2009 - 03:07 AM.

[Freakazoid]

Haruno, this is not really the place to post spoilers for a chapter not yet released, un tagged at that.....

[Cloud]

Like Nee- sama and Catsi said please read his story really.it gave me a better view of Hinata then Naruto x Hinatatards did,

Seriously?

I'd edit that before you get warned...

Let's all get along here, and spoilers aren't allowed in here I believe.

As all pairings aren't final yet (we have the upper hand), this is still a debate thread, not a spoiler thread.

[Freakazoid]

Taking a look at a NF thread about the chapter....well I gotta say, I can't say anything, lol.

If you happen to be interested in debating these ...umm....points? w/e lol

Naruto redeemed

[catsi563]

First let me start by saying thank you for not flaming me and showing your views on NaruSaku

Your very welcome and its no problem at all Im always glad to engage in healthy discussion of an issue.

Again let me try and touch on each point in turn

Nicely put, but wouldn't you do that for a dear friend as well? I mean they have known each other for quite a while now. I couldn't imagine not willing to put your life on the line for a friend. .

The issue with this statement is that it "seems to" proceed from the assumption that dear friends cannot be lovers. this simply isnt the case. While Naruto almost certainly would and has put his life on the line for his friends, he has never had more then "His life" on the line. the difference with the moments I layed out was that more then his life was on the line. His heart was also on the line in these moments, and instead of doing the selfish thing in each moment he willingly set aside his heart for his dear friend and the woman he was in love with. and allowed her to pursue what she viewed as her happiness.

this is a key to the romantic feelings he has for her and more then solidly proves those feelings or at least proves the strength of his feelings towards her.

I just so you know...I didn't see the confession as a "OMFGNARUHINAFTW!!11"...I realized that the moment although touching, was still one-sided. And realistically, how could Kishimoto actually get Naruto to have a moment with Hinata other than such a sporadic moment like that? What was he going to do? Stop the Manga have em' sit down and talk about there feelings...? Obviously couldn't happen like that

Yes in point of fact he can do just exactly that. This is Kishimoto senseis story, his plot , his characters, if he wanted Tsunade and Gamakichi to have a torrid love affair it would be jsut a simple matter of ink.

Even given what ahs transpired in the manga so far Kishimoto sensei has had multiple opportunities where right from when Hinata was first introduced in chapter 3 to when Naruto returned to the village from his battle with pein. in which he could have set a scene between the two to discuss feelings. And yet he has clearly and deliberatley made no effort what so ever to do so.

even the moment when Hinata wacthed Naruto walk out of the village pre timeskip, to the moment he and her were alone on the mission to retrieve sasuke during the latters battle with itachi all came to naught.

So yes the answr is if he wanted it to happen he could easilly have put a halt to the manga and done exactly that.

As far as Sakura and Naruto spending loads of time together, well to me doesn't hold to much water since they don't have a moment every single time there together. To say NaruSaku is still developing slowly but surely is like the whole Patient Love thing, still, the fact that Naruto is with Sakura ALL the time is without question helpful and needed for a believable bond to form to have a relationship.

Which leads to this point. No they dont have a moment eevry single point together your correct, BUT and this is the big but. They do have numerous encounters and moments of development between them through out the manga.

remember again that this is a manga each manga has up to 20 pages with anaverage of 3-5 panels per page. Arough gestimate (give or take) of 80+ panels, and with 457 manga that is (again roughly give or take) 36000 panels. in those 36000 panels you will be abel to count by far more panels of deliberately drawn NarutoSakura interaction then Naruto Hinata interaction.

the interaction in those panels has to mean something each time since he has limited space per book to get the point across so he cannot waste panels with minor interactions that dont further the story.
hence if Naruto and Hinatas interaction was intended to denote a romantic relationship it is logical to conclude that kishimoto would designate panels of the manga to appropriate interaction between them in order to build up the appropriate themes of romance that have been built up between naruto and sakura.

Whoa...? Since when was Sakura the girl of his dreams? To like someone isn't enough but there instantly the epitome for you? I have a bit of trouble with that...And apart from being biased...I wouldn't be against the idea of giving someone a chance either, I.E. Hinata. Especially with the way he is.

Since the day she cracked the ground and made a small earthquake, since the day he disguised himself as Sasuke and nearly kissed her that same day when he stated clearly that he understood why he liked sakura.

Now I grant "girl of his dreams" might be a bit of hyperpoble so Ill accept that. But Naruto has in the manga clearly demonstrated that she is the girl for him. And thanks to Shikaku (Shikamrus father) we understand that she too is made for him when he explains to Shikamaru that women can be gentle with the man she loves. Something even emotionaly clueless Sai notes when he tells Sakura that she is "very gentle" with Naruto.

He has not had such a revelation from Hinata about likeing her. He may have admited to liking "people like her" but not her. He has not said "I understand now why i like Hinata" I better not goof off in front of Hinata or shell Kill me"

hes said none of those things, and these are very important distinctions coming from him as they clearly show Who it is he likes.

And NaruSaku isn't? The main base for NaruSaku is completely hypothetical as is NaruHina. An assumption, "Sakura is ALWAYS with Naruto! She must have some romantic affection by now!" = "Hinata finally said it! Why would Naruto say no?!"

It is one sided at this moment yes, BUT and again this is a big but, bigger then the beatles LOL.

Sakura is always with Naruto and is beginning to show signs of romantic feelings towards him, feelings which others have noticed (yamato, sai, tsunade, kakashi etc)

As to why would naruto say no, this has allready been covered above in the reason that he doesnt have the same feleings for her. after all the question arises Why doesnt Sasuke return Inos feelings or Karins feelings, or Sakuras feelings?, why doesnt Sakura return Lees feelings, Why didnt Tsunade return Jiraiyas feelings?

Im certian hinatas sacrafice meant a lot to him, but he hasnt had the type of development towards her to justify him just turning towards her and answering in kind.

I have read the NaruSaku manifesto and it seems in terms of "growth" for Sakura's feeling for Naruto. We've gone from, "I hate Naruto" to someone she could admire, I suppose this could to lead to some romantic feelings

And it has. it has lead to her feelings growing slowly but steadilly and with clear evidence supported by the manga to date.

To say Naruto still likes Sakura well...Don't you think it would only be fair to assume that Sakura still has feeling for Sasuke?

It is fair and there is a reason which Ive covered elsewhere, that involves Naruto and a henge into sasuke at the bench, but again thats a discussion for another day.

In the context of this discussion it is only relevant as it is something that sakura will have to deal with before she can trully and finally move on and be with naruto romantically and he can be with her.

...however this was about square one for NaruHina, we knew that Hinata admired him but...That was it. For Hinata's growth thoguh, Zero? That's a bit harsh don't you think? For someone to go from a stuttering wreck who could not articulate herself for more than 2 seconds before fainting to willing to die for the one she loved? "Zero"...? Tough crowd...

This is an incorrect assumption though. this is not as you put it square one for Naruhina. it is in point of fact step 10 in the moments where Kishimoto could have taken and advanced the two into a relationship and yet has not done so.

remember this is a clear one sided moment it is Hinata centric with Naruto having a short sharp reaction which was to tell her to get the heck away before she was hurt.

And that again is the key. The confession was a HUGE MOMENT!! but and again that big but. It was a moment for HInata. Not hinata and Naruto but Hinata alone.

it was her moment of triumph a moment when she reached down and grabbed her courage and stood up in front fo the person she admires and expressed her feelings and admiration and thanks to him in the way that seemed best to her.

I applaud her for that courage but it does not have the same meaning that it has been invested with by those who wish it to be this big romantic moment.

Disregard my SasuSaku comment...I'm answering as I read... Lol thanks for the open-mindedness

your again welcome and the comment is covered as appropriate

Same can be said for the confession. Hinata did that because she wanted to (Der...) die protecting the one she loved; or at least attempt it. Hinata's growth at it's best. As for Naruto not responding...Think of the circumstances. "Balls...I'm about to get got by Pain...Hinata...?! The hell are you doing here?! GTFO! Wait you love me...?" *Brain dies* To be so utterly hated by everyone for a pretty good portion on your life. You only bond being that of friendship and then for someone to come out and say "I love you!" Pretty sure anybody would be a bit dumbfounded.

Quite correct bhowever the point proceeds from a mistaken assumption. the assumption being that the confession and hug are the same moment. this is innaccurate. they are completely different moments with different contexts and different outcomes.

The context of the confession was an action undertaken in the heat of the moment, with the goal of dying or at least being severely injured by an enemy to protect naruto. the confession as done was a ""self admitted"" selfish confession and done with the knowledge that she would be taking it to her grave with her.

the hug was done in a moment of peace, with plenty of peope around to witness it and with Sakura having plenty of knowledge that she would be viewed by a lot of people. and she clearly chooses to stand there in front of friends, peers etc and openly and affectionatley hug him.

really do hope you aren't one of those people that figures "Hinata supports NaruSaku!" She's happy for the same reason Sakura is, He's ok! He just came back, alive.

Whether she supports narusaku or not is debatable. Im sure she wouldnt mind dating naruto at all. BUT ((theres that word again)) that is not the essence of Hinatas character. she is driven by her admiration for naruto ((again self admitted)) and she wants to see him succeed and be happy and this is a very unselfish thing for her to do.

So does she support it? cant say she isnt talking. But is she happy for him? Yes absolutely she is and it shows on her face.

to contrast this let me show two scenes where someone is being hugged and the clear and different reactions to each

Narutos reaction to Sakura hugging sasuke

Hinatas reaction to Sakura hugging naruto

the two reactions are clearly different, hinata is smiling warmly and her eyes are open and clear. Naruto on the other hand is not smiling his face is in fact neutral and pained towards the end, his eyes are narrowed and showing adistinctive pain unlike Hinata who is wide eyed and open.

And you've already mentioned it, Sakura has been the one with him this whole time. Don't you think it'd be right for her to give him the hug? It's not like Kishimoto could have had Hinata do it. I'm a NaruHina fan saying that would have been bad placement for a moment

You pretty well cover what Iw as saying but there is mroe too it. The hug unlike the confession is signifgant To Both Naruto and Sakura. This is the key between the two. The Hug is a moment of affection and intimacy between the two that is the culmination of sakuras )slow but steady) growth as a person and acknowledgemnt of Naruto and his feelings towards her as well as his importance to her as a friend, teamate and someone she holds very close to her heart.

So what Sakura going to do? Settle for Naruto? Remember when Sasuke was leaving the village? Sakura~ "I love you so much I can't stand it!" And then something along the lines of her going with him. And then many chapters later for her to go... "Eh Naruto, we been together a while right? ~NaruSaku thing~ I love you now!" Doesn't that make her seem a bit floozy?

Ok now Im going to call you on this one a little bit. have you seen me call hinata a floozy or b**ch or similar bad word? no you have not. Sakura haters regullarly use this one on both Naruto and Sakura to demean both charatcers and it is not only completley baseless it is insulting as well.

Sakura would no more be a floozy for turning to Naruto ((a character who clearly cares for her)) and away from Sasuke ((a character who clearly doesnt care for her and betrayed her and nealry killed naruto twice)) then hinata would be for turning to Kiba (a character who clearly cares for her).

Too turn this argument on its head wouldnt Naruto be a floozy and a cold bastard to turn around and love Hinata after devoting so much of his heart and a lifetime promise to Sakura?

the argument is circular and not valid.

In the end if the scenario comes to pass where Naruto and sakura are togethwer and Sakura confesses to him it will not come from nowhere. It will come from a near 450+ chapters of development.

A relationship rooted initially in a misunderstanding between them. That has slowly but steadilly, patiently, and with more then it share of road bumps in between. changed from its humble beginnings to a relationship built on trust, understanding, and like mindedness. A shared pain and a shared lonliness. And a clear and present understanding of the others feelings and why they feel the way they do.

I did take that a bit far didn't I...? Lol

no not too far hehe

Oh what the hell...Where still on her admiration bit?! "I love=admire you!" Your making this hard...I'm trying to see eye to eye but for god sakes man! Just because you wish something didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't happen

Yes we are on the admiration and yes admiration does equal love to an extent In a shonen manga. A prime example is bleach. Orihime is very similar to Hinata in this regard. It is her admiration ((again self admitted)) for Ichigo that drives her to train hard, and leads to her leaving for hueco mundo to protect everyone.

In much the same way it is Hinatas admiration ((Again self admitted)) that drives Hinata forward to charge pein, and to admit her feelings to naruto before what she views as her inevitable death.

I again quote my above post in this regard

Naruto is much to Hinata what Sasuke is to Naruto in someways. He is her unreachable goal the element which pushes her to excel. her crush on him is legit but is part of her admiration for him and must be viewed in this context since it is spoken in this fashion from her own words in the manga.

this is not an opinion it is based in fact from HInatas own words to Naruto during the confession, and from the panels drawn to show the scene.

If I may be honest I think Kishimoto honestly missed out on a great opportunity with Hinata in the confession. I belive he should have had her die in Sakuras arms while speaking to her about what happened.

With her death "For Hinata!" could have become a rallying cry for the younger generation to use in the process of destroying akatsuki, while simultaneously devloping further narutos promsie to Nagato and Konan that he would find a way to bring peace.

Its a sacrafice that I think Shy hinata would have found good.

unfortuantely Kishi missed this opportunity to cement Hinatas relevance to the manga and ended up turning her into a trigger for the kyuubi.

Now shes slipped back into obscurity and irrelevance again unfortuantely where she could have had a major impact on the story and been a driving force in the future of the story.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Catsi epic win seriously....

[catsi563]

=^__^=-d thanks

[RyrineaHaruno]

=^__^=-d thanks

Yeah I hate it when they call Sakura a floozy....

[Hysteria]

Some people actually claim that recent developments are nothing but a red herring.

Denial knows no bounds.

[Freakazoid]

Oh? I've seen that it implied further that Naruto has given up on Sakura, and supports SS.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Oh? I've seen that it implied further that Naruto has given up on Sakura, and supports SS.

He doesn't support it. He supports Sakura happiness..."


The red harring thing it just bull crude

[Hysteria]

I don't think that you're supposed to cultivate a "red herring" that much.

Oh? I've seen that it implied further that Naruto has given up on Sakura, and supports SS.

It's not even funny anymore...

Lack of reading comprehension.

'Nuff said.

Edited by Hysteria, 29 July 2009 - 06:31 AM.

[Sherry]

So what Sakura going to do? Settle for Naruto? Remember when Sasuke was leaving the village? Sakura~ "I love you so much I can't stand it!" And then something along the lines of her going with him. And then many chapters later for her to go... "Eh Naruto, we been together a while right? ~NaruSaku thing~ I love you now!" Doesn't that make her seem a bit floozy?

if i were sakura, i wouldn't love naruto just because i had ever been together with naruto for a while. i would love him because of his love to me. he stole my heart and he won my heart and beaten sasuke. (note if i were sakura, but i don't mind if she was me ^^)
i have read and found many naruto's effort for sakura's happiness, and i almost cried because...he's the one, i thought, who has a true love for the girl he loves. don't you see that?

[lolaMarie]

What in the world is a "red herring"? I've heard it before, but never got around to an explanation.

[RyrineaHaruno]

What in the world is a "red herring"? I've heard it before, but never got around to an explanation.

It basically saying that the relationship between Naruto and Sakura is just getting in the way of the actual parings...."