54216 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

The Hinata training naked under the waterfall was Pierot's perverted fantasy (they're Hinata fan boys). Also I saw that scene a bit inappropriate, seriously a thirteen year old training naked. I wouldn't have mind if it was a twenty year old.

[TyranntX]

The Hinata training naked under the waterfall was Pierot's perverted fantasy (they're Hinata fan boys). Also I saw that scene a bit inappropriate, seriously a thirteen year old training naked. I wouldn't have mind if it was a twenty year old.

Not that you mention it, I'm starting to wonder why NH fans even USE that scene to thier "advantage"

[Gravenimage]

Back on topic since Kishi is stalling for the NS recovery scene I'm starting to wonder. That recovery scene might finally be the last push to make the pairing canon. Who knows if Kishi draws panels of Sakura and Karin hugging their love interest while crying when they wake up. He did draw the panels when Naruto and Sasuke died with Sakura and Karin above from 662.

[TyranntX]

Back on topic since Kishi is stalling for the NS recovery scene I'm starting to wonder. That recovery scene might finally be the last push to make the pairing canon. Who knows if Kishi draws panels of Sakura and Karin hugging their love interest while crying when they wake up. He did draw the panels when Naruto and Sasuke died with Sakura and Karin above from 662.

 

This is EXACTLY what I have been saying for the past few weeks. if there is a best time for NS to go canon... THIS IS IT! both pairings are (almost) alone. The war is drawing to a close... come to think of it I would not be supprized if we got to see a wedding in the far future. because in japan you are considered an adult at the age of 14!!! 14 people, how old are the ninja now? 15,16, and even 17 for Guys students. I think they could legally marry. they would have a few more dates of course (despite having gone on a few already) but after that.... well lets just say we just might see a triple wedding. I wonder how the Japanese celebrate weddings....

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Ok well here's the thing. No one tells Naruto that the road he's going to have. This revelation is ok timing because everything is already set. Here's the thing as well. Hagoromo has said that he reminds of him because of the path he took. Understand the context of his meaning because that would mean Naruto just happens to take that path. Again, Naruto could have taken Sasuke's path as Naruto even said it because nothing is predetermined. Hell, same could be said to Kagome. She could just go home and ignore it even though later on it follows. The idea is you're reincarnated, but you make the decision. Naruto decided to go to his path. It's not like he did like:

Naruto: what's that? Oh ok. My other half said that Zabuza and Haku died like normal people. Oh, he said he doesn't like the way on how shinobi works.

I don't get how hard is to understand. Just maybe I get it if it happens in the beginning of time, but Naruto is at the end. Why this do anything wrong? Do you see Naruto saying "Well, I'm going to a new path." Hell, why don't you wait on what's going to be said in the next chapter. Patient is a virtue. Just stop hijacking and just take a breather and wait for the story unfold. I always waited and here am I, now actually getting upset but not the manga, but the opinion that don't get the idea perfectly. If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't trying to hamper the idea that's not what Kishi is saying.

 

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you. Ever since the 'destined child' idea was introduced Kishimoto contradicted the earlier concepts of not being bound by fate or destiny that he preached in part one. Instead of Naruto succeeding by hard work and his own choice, he succeeds because he was predetermined to do so and destined to take the path that Ashura took before him. He was 'chosen' for it seemingly regardless of his own will . It is, in my opinion, a cheap "plot twist" at this late point of the manga.

 

Needing patience is not the issue -- I can be patient -- but the glaring inconsistency and contradiction of the reincarnation and destiny themes with earlier themes is not something I will just ignore. It makes little difference what may be said it explain or justify it, because I doubt it will change my opinion on it. I don't like it, nor do I feel that it is consistent storytelling, foreshadowing or no.

 

But, agree to disagree, yeah?

[Inferno180]

Hey at this point, with the sage, if he can see into naruto's life given what he had shown with minato and kushina and how the child is different from the parents, if he can see into narutos life, this gave me a thought:

 

Lets just say this hypothetical out of the way never gonna happen thing occured in narutos and hagomaros talk,

 

Lets say Hagomaro looks into narutos life more like he did this past chapter talking about the talents of parent to child being different, lets say the talk turned to something else like the aspect of love and how it made everything be achieved, what if hagomaro talking to naruto mentions this and that and signals out the love for others, with sakura (being his love interest) as something that it was reasons naruto did what he did for others being the reason why he chose ashura as the successor. Lets say in the middle of this conversation hagomaro points out naruto has love for sakura, what I would want to know then is this: If this actually occured, what would the NH and SS fans argue against? Would they say even Hagomaro was wrong? Would they use the same excuse of minato not knowing naruto for more than 20 minutes? Would they say Hagomaro is a senile old dead fart that cannot see deep enough to see that "love" for Hinata? Would they really question the sage who is more or less able to see the entire span of naruto's life? This makes me curious as if another point in the story, if some love is pointed out between naruto and sakura, especially given the potential for something with the future wake up scene, then what are the fans going to do with it, how are they going to react? If anything is true, there are currently many NH and SS fans scared of the possibility of what this future scene could do. NH fans are angry because Hinata is been left behind, SS fans are angry because Sakura is with naruto and Karin is with Sasuke. Its not the major NS moment, but even if its a hug, this was the worst condition scene for both naruto and sasuke and sakura was with naruto. Its like NH fans expect Hinata to hold all the credit and validity because she simply loves him, yeah as sakura was only patching naruto up for her as they would say in a nutshell.

 

You don't have a situation like this in a story occur and then leave it as just friendship for another to come in like it was nothing. It just doesn't make sense at this point. All I know is, I enjoy seeing disgruntled and concerned NH and SS fans in the current situation because as it was, it was almost ideal for us how kishi set this up. Part of me honestly hopes that the potential wake up scene is meaningful for NS but also one that brings more development between them as to which it will do a good amount of damage to NH and SS.

[TyranntX]

Hey at this point, with the sage, if he can see into naruto's life given what he had shown with minato and kushina and how the child is different from the parents, if he can see into narutos life, this gave me a thought:

 

Lets just say this hypothetical out of the way never gonna happen thing occured in narutos and hagomaros talk,

 

Lets say Hagomaro looks into narutos life more like he did this past chapter talking about the talents of parent to child being different, lets say the talk turned to something else like the aspect of love and how it made everything be achieved, what if hagomaro talking to naruto mentions this and that and signals out the love for others, with sakura (being his love interest) as something that it was reasons naruto did what he did for others being the reason why he chose ashura as the successor. Lets say in the middle of this conversation hagomaro points out naruto has love for sakura, what I would want to know then is this: If this actually occured, what would the NH and SS fans argue against? Would they say even Hagomaro was wrong? Would they use the same excuse of minato not knowing naruto for more than 20 minutes? Would they say Hagomaro is a senile old dead fart that cannot see deep enough to see that "love" for Hinata? Would they really question the sage who is more or less able to see the entire span of naruto's life? This makes me curious as if another point in the story, if some love is pointed out between naruto and sakura, especially given the potential for something with the future wake up scene, then what are the fans going to do with it, how are they going to react? If anything is true, there are currently many NH and SS fans scared of the possibility of what this future scene could do. NH fans are angry because Hinata is been left behind, SS fans are angry because Sakura is with naruto and Karin is with Sasuke. Its not the major NS moment, but even if its a hug, this was the worst condition scene for both naruto and sasuke and sakura was with naruto. Its like NH fans expect Hinata to hold all the credit and validity because she simply loves him, yeah as sakura was only patching naruto up for her as they would say in a nutshell.

 

You don't have a situation like this in a story occur and then leave it as just friendship for another to come in like it was nothing. It just doesn't make sense at this point. All I know is, I enjoy seeing disgruntled and concerned NH and SS fans in the current situation because as it was, it was almost ideal for us how kishi set this up. Part of me honestly hopes that the potential wake up scene is meaningful for NS but also one that brings more development between them as to which it will do a good amount of damage to NH and SS.

 

so what your saying is that scene just took a dump so huge on both NH ans SS that it crushed them under its massive size? I agree.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you. Ever since the 'destined child' idea was introduced Kishimoto contradicted the earlier concepts of not being bound by fate or destiny that he preached in part one. Instead of Naruto succeeding by hard work and his own choice, he succeeds because he was predetermined to do so and destined to take the path that Ashura took before him. He was 'chosen' for it seemingly regardless of his own will . It is, in my opinion, a cheap "plot twist" at this late point of the manga.
 
Needing patience is not the issue -- I can be patient -- but the glaring inconsistency and contradiction of the reincarnation and destiny themes with earlier themes is not something I will just ignore. It makes little difference what may be said it explain or justify it, because I doubt it will change my opinion on it. I don't like it, nor do I feel that it is consistent storytelling, foreshadowing or no.
 
But, agree to disagree, yeah?

Yeah, agree to disagree. For the record, Naruto never took the chosen one as "Ooo so I am god!" This is the first time he heard the connection to someone to the point he could be called the chosen one. Again, I don't think it hurts at all, but like you said, agree to disagree.

[Gravenimage]

The damage the NS recovery scene will do to the other fandom will be worst than what 631 did that's for sure.

[Gojira]

Hopefully.

I still have a nagging feeling that it will end up being underwhelming due to how dire the current situation is. and the fact that I'm sure they don't want to leave everyone else alone with Juubidara for much longer.

[TyranntX]

The damage the NS recovery scene will do to the other fandom will be worst than what 631 did that's for sure.

They might use some lame excuse that doesn't make sense. And I have to say If the Recovery scene doesn't completely destroy the possibility of NH going canon... then the moments to follow will. Im excited to see it though, really want a week to pass already

[KnS]

Okay, I've had time to think about this chapter a bit more.

 

I hesitate to wade into a discussion about how much Buddhism may or may not be informing Kishimoto's characterizations  (of the Sage, his sons, Naruto, Sasuke, etc.) but it seems certain that he's influenced by it to some degree.  The fact that the text was translated to include the word "transmigrant" pretty much proves it.

 

The question seems to be: If Naruto is the reincarnation of Ashura, are his life / actions / personality / choices fated or has Naruto made his own choices that have influenced his own path?

 

I'm no expert on Buddhism, but here's my take on it based on my understanding....

 

While Naruto may be the reincarnation of Ashura, it would appear he is still an ordinary being -- one who has not yet achieved enlightenment. The Sage said that Ashura/Naruto are "no good" and lacked skills, but they understand love and hard work.

 

Are Ashura and Naruto the same being?  Yes and no.  Yes, because the being was once Ashura, but no because it is now Naruto -- and choices and experiences were made in the interim that have changed the being.  

 

The Buddha described reincarnation -- or taking on a new body in the next life -- by comparing it to lighting a succession of candles through time, using the flame of the preceding candle to light the next. Each flame is connected to the one that came before it, but it's not the same flame. 

 

Then there's this explanation from the Dalai Lama:

 

There are two ways in which someone can take rebirth after death: rebirth under the sway of karma and destructive emotions and rebirth through the power of compassion and prayer. Regarding the first, due to ignorance negative and positive karma are created and their imprints remain on the consciousness. These are reactivated through craving and grasping, propelling us into the next life. We then take rebirth involuntarily in higher or lower realms. This is the way ordinary beings circle incessantly through existence like the turning of a wheel.

 

 

 

Big hitter, the Lama.  

 

 

So... The soul or consciousness of the Ashura/Naruto being is still seeking perfection and enlightment, and continues the rebirth/death/rebirth cycle.  Following this tenet of Buddhism, Naruto is the reincarnation of Ashura but his actions, choices, and emotions are his own, and hopefully an improvement (positive karma) over those of the past.

 

The Sage (or Buddha-like character) has appeared to Naruto at the moment when he is near physical death.  He also referred to Naruto as a "transmigrant," and said that the chakra (soul/energy/karma) of both Ashura and Indra had "transmigrated over time... endlessly."

 

My current guess is that whatever the Sage has to entrust to Naruto will probably require Naruto to make a choice.  If he believes in what is entrusted to him and he accepts, his soul will have changed its karma again.  He will then take that new soul/energy/karma to the fight if he lives, or to the next incarnation if he dies.

 

Which way it goes "depends on what the *people outside* do with [him]."

 

Just my opinion.

Edited by KnS, 28 March 2014 - 03:22 AM.

[narusaku256]

 

Anyone who still makes the argument about Hinata and a Kushina parallel should just be ignored, 631 shot this out of the sky pretty quickly.

Next time I'll surely take care that I don't portray myself as a NH fan which obviously I am not  . I'll elaborate my points more precisely and make it easy to understand. Believe me I am an NS shipper only.

 

Hey at this point, with the sage, if he can see into naruto's life given what he had shown with minato and kushina and how the child is different from the parents, if he can see into narutos life, this gave me a thought:

 

Lets just say this hypothetical out of the way never gonna happen thing occured in narutos and hagomaros talk,

 

Lets say Hagomaro looks into narutos life more like he did this past chapter talking about the talents of parent to child being different, lets say the talk turned to something else like the aspect of love and how it made everything be achieved, what if hagomaro talking to naruto mentions this and that and signals out the love for others, with sakura (being his love interest) as something that it was reasons naruto did what he did for others being the reason why he chose ashura as the successor. Lets say in the middle of this conversation hagomaro points out naruto has love for sakura, what I would want to know then is this: If this actually occured, what would the NH and SS fans argue against? Would they say even Hagomaro was wrong? Would they use the same excuse of minato not knowing naruto for more than 20 minutes? Would they say Hagomaro is a senile old dead fart that cannot see deep enough to see that "love" for Hinata? Would they really question the sage who is more or less able to see the entire span of naruto's life? This makes me curious as if another point in the story, if some love is pointed out between naruto and sakura, especially given the potential for something with the future wake up scene, then what are the fans going to do with it, how are they going to react? If anything is true, there are currently many NH and SS fans scared of the possibility of what this future scene could do. NH fans are angry because Hinata is been left behind, SS fans are angry because Sakura is with naruto and Karin is with Sasuke. Its not the major NS moment, but even if its a hug, this was the worst condition scene for both naruto and sasuke and sakura was with naruto. Its like NH fans expect Hinata to hold all the credit and validity because she simply loves him, yeah as sakura was only patching naruto up for her as they would say in a nutshell.

 

You don't have a situation like this in a story occur and then leave it as just friendship for another to come in like it was nothing. It just doesn't make sense at this point. All I know is, I enjoy seeing disgruntled and concerned NH and SS fans in the current situation because as it was, it was almost ideal for us how kishi set this up. Part of me honestly hopes that the potential wake up scene is meaningful for NS but also one that brings more development between them as to which it will do a good amount of damage to NH and SS.

When NS goes canon we're gonna see statements(from NH fandom) that Kishi himself would not have thought about. MAN! I am going to laugh as hard as I can on the statements/assertions of NH fans. I hope this turns out to be the laugh that I haven't had in years. And ofcourse, how can I forget that, we'll then be able to officially dispel all their ridiculous claims  and then maybe we can start bashing too(though I personally don't support the bashing part). Personally, I am okay even if its just a warm, heartfelt hug between Naruto and Sakura ^_^. I just hope we'll get an NS moment when Naruto wakes up.And then there's this moment when NS goes canon- *Its gonna be LEGEN wait for it DARY* . Alright, jokes apart, when NS goes canon, NH fans can rant all they want, but they won't be able to do a thing about it, so what remains for them is to accept the fact. But on serious note, I and am sure everyone is looking forward for that 'NS canon time' that is just round the corner and that is when we can go all out against other fandoms which have been getting on our nerves all the time. But as Piccolo said "Its not over until its over". *Sigh* We'll have to wait a bit longer. 

 

 

so what your saying is that scene just took a dump so huge on both NH ans SS that it crushed them under its massive size? I agree.

Yeah me too  . 

Edited by narusaku256, 28 March 2014 - 07:32 AM.

[TyranntX]

NH fans are going to be PISSED for the next few chapters. wait... they already are.

[Superman333]

The problem is he was destined for great things from the getgo so him living a life of being hated was never a threat to begin with. It just takes away from the moment.

Its like if a character was put in a situation where he was going to die but pulls through with nothing but willpower and believing in himself that would be inspirational but then the writer comes along and says something that would take the inspiration out like "well he was never in any real danger to begin with since it was his destiny to break out" It just makes the character lose connection with the audience.

idk bra . Kishimoto has made it pretty clear that Naruto wasn't bound to destiny , but instead he made his own fate and destiny .

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Yeah, agree to disagree. For the record, Naruto never took the chosen one as "Ooo so I am god!" This is the first time he heard the connection to someone to the point he could be called the chosen one. Again, I don't think it hurts at all, but like you said, agree to disagree.

 

Lol, I definitely can't imagine Naruto saying that, he may be a dork but he's not that arrogant. I'm hoping that Naruto isn't going to just be passively accepting of the Sage's revelation. At the very least I would like to see some personal conflict come out of this for Naruto. He could use a little bit of inner conflict that doesn't revolve around Sasuke. But, we'll see.

[Superman333]

today is Sakura-Chan's birthday . They might both get a birthday present .

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

Lol, I definitely can't imagine Naruto saying that, he may be a dork but he's not that arrogant. I'm hoping that Naruto isn't going to just be passively accepting of the Sage's revelation. At the very least I would like to see some personal conflict come out of this for Naruto. He could use a little bit of inner conflict that doesn't revolve around Sasuke. But, we'll see.

Well, this is the the first time we see him being connected to someone who was going to be RS, so now, we will see how he takes this. I guess Hagoromo wasn't kidding that what he said may or may not make Naruto like this.

[narulsaku]

Hey guys do u think sasuke resembels the elder son? someone remind me his name. As naruto is connected to ashura so i think sasuke mighy be connected to the elder son too. The elder son had also sharingan.

[TouKen4Life3g]

The weird thing is why Naruto. I mean he has like what, 1/16 part of Senju? Indra for any Uchiha makes sense since it's still in Uchiha lineage, but Naruto, why?