19964 replies to this topic

[Akashi]

Crimson, I really have to disagree with you on Hinata's confession. If not for the Kyuubi and Minato, Naruto would have been left in the exact same situation, regardless of Hinata's "efforts". Hinata couldn't haven known that her actions would eventually lead to Naruto losing control of Kurama and, thus, freeing himself from Pain. There was just no way that she had that in mind. In fact, I doubt that she had Naruto's rescue in mind, given then course of action she chooses to take.

For the sake of not having to repeat myself, I'm going to post an old comment I had made regarding Hinata's confession:

Hinata's confession --Click here to view--

The fact that Hinata wanted to interfere with the Pain fight isn't the problem that I have with her confession. Naruto clearly was in a bad spot and needed help. My problem lies in her intentions behind jumping into the battle. She didn't do it to save Naruto; she did it to confess her feelings so that she wouldn't have any regrets.

Hinata knew that she was no match against Pain; she knew that jumping down there all by herself would be pointless, but she did it anyway. If saving Naruto was truly what she wanted to do, then as a ninja, she should have been trying to come up with a plan to get Naruto out of that pinch. At the very least, she could have tried gathering other people to assist her. No one else was going to jump in after her because only the Hyuuga clan could actually see what was going on, and most of them were injured, unconscious, or dead. Her guard, for example, was down with a broken leg. That's why he couldn't stop her from leaving, and as we know, Neji was away from the village. Everyone else was blind to what was happening to Naruto - that's why no one else was trying to save him. (Plus Naruto had told everyone to believe in him and stay out of it...) She knew that, but still she didn't try to round up a team of less injured shinobi to go down there with her. Sure, a group would still be nothing against Pain, but they could have at least caused enough of a distraction for her to get the rods out of Naruto's arms. That was all she needed to do, as he could have pulled the rest out himself.

That didn't happen though. So now we have Hinata standing in front of Naruto with Pain, an enemy that was capable of completely crushing the village, staring her down. There were still other things that she could have done to save Naruto in this situation, or at least tried to help him with. The anime team pretty much covered the possibilities with their filler version of her confession. The first thing that filler Hinata does during her confession is attack the rods in Naruto. If saving Naruto was what she wanted to do, that would have been the obvious course of action, but canon Hinata doesn't do that.

Canon Hinata either wasn't trying to save Naruto, or actually thought that charging at Pain was going to do something to save Naruto, which clearly wasn't the case. Because I don't want to completely lose all hope in Hinata as a character, I choose to believe in the first option. All she wanted to do was confess to him so that she would have no regrets later on. She wasn't thinking about what she would do to help him after she confessed. She just wanted to get her feelings off of her chest as she thought that was her last opportunity to do so. That's what makes her confession selfish instead of selfless. She was acting for herself, not for Naruto. She didn't have his well-being in mind. If she did, she would have stopped to think about how witnessing a friend being murdered in front of him, while completely powerless to stop it, would have affected Naruto. Kyuubi or no Kyuubi, she had to have known that that wouldn't have affected him in a positive way, but she chooses to charge at Pain anyway.

The last point I want to make is that Hinata had no way of knowing, prior to jumping down there, that Naruto was going to unleash the Kyuubi's power. I don't even think she knew that Naruto had the Kyuubi in him at that point. This proves that she had no intention of saving him. Remove the Kyuubi from the equation and what was her plan? To jump in front of Naruto, (despite her guard telling her that she would only be in the way), confess, and charge Pain, all the while knowing that she stood no chance against him. None of which had anything to do with actually helping Naruto out of his predicament. Had it not been for the Kyuubi, Naruto would have been left in the exact same position that he was in before Hinata chose to "save him". Pinned to the ground with Pain standing over him. The only difference would be that Hinata's mangled body would be laying a few feet away from him. Nice one, Hinata.

She's lucky as hell that:
1) Naruto went Kyuubi, because ultimately that's what saved him.
2) He didn't accidentally step on her or pick her up and fling her mangled body into the horizon.
3) He was drawn away from the village, leaving what few survivors there were alive, (which was also thanks to Sakura having everyone evacuate)
4) Sakura was able to save her before it was too late.
5) Minato was there to save Naruto from being completely overtaken by the Kyuubi.

This was all pure luck. Hinata had no idea that any of this was going to happen.

I can agree with you on Sakura's actions regarding Sasuke. All of us were expecting more from her in that scenario, and honestly, I was upset to see her used as a damsel in distress twice. I wanted her to have a stronger resolve, but evidently, Kishimoto wanted Naruto's resolve to be stronger. Since the plot revolves and Naruto and Sasuke, that's not much of a surprise. Ultimately, Naruto is what holds Team Seven together. Without him, they would fall apart.

It just goes to show you how terrible Sakura love for Sasuke is for her. I am, however, pleased to see that she has shown signs from moving on from him since then. Chapter 540 is an indication that she views Sasuke in a negative light and has come to terms with the fact that he's not the same as he used to be. I believe that their next reunion will be very different from the one that occurred during the Summit Arc.

Wow, that is one hell of a post! Great job, Slex!

[Slextrem]

@Slextrem good post but also i have to pinpoint she went with the best intentions for Naruto but ended up on a damsel in distress situation she was just marching to her own death.
At least give development for both of them, Sakura realizing Naruto's feelings and helped with her resolve and Naruto.

Yes, you're right. Sakura did have the best intentions when she sought out Sasuke. She had Naruto's feelings for Sasuke and his friend in mind when she decided to take Sasuke on herself. She wanted to take Naruto's burden and carry it for him, despite the possibility of him hating her for it, but she ended up collapsing under it's pressure. It just goes to show you how strong Naruto really is, and I don't mean physically.

You make a fair point. What I believe, however, is that Hinata wasn't thinking through the situation when she jumped in, she saw that Naruto had been completely incapacitated, and was immediately emotionally driven to the point of interfering. Was it irrational? Perhaps. But it did make for a heck of an NH moment, and for that reason alone I'll admittedly be biased about it.

Fair enough.

Sakura's actions during the Land of Iron and the Summit Arc all revolve around Naruto, and even though it didn't lead to a better moment for her character, I still enjoy the idea that she had his well-being in mind. Despite her being used as a damsel in distress, her actions did lead to a very nice NaruSaku moment which eventually became a parallel of MinaKushi, so I'll also be a little bias about that arc.

Edited by Slextrem, 08 April 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[Don-kun]

The reason behind his training was for the express purpose of locating Sasuke. Do you think he was going to listen to Yamato and simply go back inside?


The entire concept of "pairings" is based around reader speculation of whether one character is better than another character for a third character. Why else do debate threads such as this exist?

No my friend the many fans in Japan where the Manga is coming from believes that NaruSasu is better for each other, and if we go by taste then KakaIru also has a huge support.

The concept of debate is to try and argue an event in the Manga between the two characters involve in the pairing discussion, is not about who I feel is better for the other one, is about trying to speculate what the Manga is leading or foreshadowing at.

Is almost like saying debate is, Hinata deserves Naruto because Sakura is a B or Naruto deserves Sakura because Hinata is a stalker that doesn't know him.
C'mon that's personal opinion not debate.

There are a lot of member who are willing to debate with you so enjoy your debate both try to keep it on the Manga romance hint and not personal taste.

Edited by Don-kun, 08 April 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

Alright Crimson. I will give you and your pairing a chance. So I will make you a deal.

You write out a situation. How do you envision NH becomming cannon. What would be Naruto`s motivation, which flashbacks would you use, the dialogs between Naruto and Hinata, a valid reason for Naruto the protagonist to move on from Sakura, what that would do to his character, what would that do to Hinata`s character, how would it effect the story, how would Naruto would fit in with teh Hyuugas.

You convince me that there`s a way to make NH cannon without an asspull and I will start taking it a little more seriusly.

Why am I doing this? Well I`m impersonating Baquette so I will call you out on your beliefs. You claim NH has the most chance of being cannon? Show me.

BTW: Sorry if I come off as a jerk but it`s just how it is. I don`t mean to be a jerk but you put us on the defencive. It`s counter attack time.


Impress me.

Edited by StrikerTheNoble, 08 April 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yes, you're right. Sakura did have the best intentions when she sought out Sasuke. She had Naruto's feelings for Sasuke and his friend in mind when she decided to take Sasuke on herself. She wanted to take Naruto's burden and carry it for him, despite the possibility of him hating her for it, but she ended up collapsing under it's pressure. It just goes to show you how strong Naruto really is, and I don't mean physically.

YEah this is the reaosn why i believe Sakura is better she always looked to not let Naruto take all the burdens by himself and acknowledges his burdens and his reponsabilities that he has to handle and she wants to handle those things together with Naruto.
In contrast that i never see Hinata having those kinds of resolutions is just about herself.
When she jumped it was about herself wanted to confess and didnt even tried to remove the sticks that was imprisoning him and didnt even had a plan.
579 where she did not looked for wanted to help but wanted to hold his hand and bla bla bla, 579 was her thinking about herself and her emotions while all the others seek to support Naruto, minus Sakura who thought about Naruto's responsabilites and his burden.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 April 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yes, you're right. Sakura did have the best intentions when she sought out Sasuke. She had Naruto's feelings for Sasuke and his friend in mind when she decided to take Sasuke on herself. She wanted to take Naruto's burden and carry it for him, despite the possibility of him hating her for it, but she ended up collapsing under it's pressure. It just goes to show you how strong Naruto really is, and I don't mean physically.

Great post. The last one I mean but this is good too.

That said well, it's like Death Note epilogue. The new guy has the death note and start killing people like the previous character, but ultimately, he suicide because he couldn't handle the fact he kills people. That means people can't handle it even if they want to fix the world, yet Light (protagonist) managed to pull through for so long. That's how I saw it in last arc. Sakura's emotions got the best of her, so she can't do it, which is why Naruto don't want her to get involved because he already knows how she is, hence that comment about her always cry back in Rescue Gaara Arc. Kakashi gave up by trying to kill Sasuke, which well he grew up in the old fashion ninja law. Naruto is still Naruto after all these years. Kage summit arc was challenging Naruto that there's no hope for Sasuke and he should give up, hence the truth being told, Sakura, and Gaara telling him about the incident and how much they're like from part 1 Gaara and current Sasuke, only Sasuke is fully aware of himself. And we know in the end, he still the same.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The justification of your preferred pairing of course lies behind the quality of development you feel they've had throughout the story, which is part of what you use in a debate to assert your preference/speculations.
People prefer NaruSasu because they are indeed the most well developed pairing (if we were to classify them as such) amongst those involving the main characters.

There are people who prefer SasuSaku, NaruIno and so on.. and they does not even has development.

Preference of pairing is about personal taste and nothing else then people look for arguments to sustain the pairing shipping, this is the reason of NH, huge amount of Hinata fans ship NaruHina, despite having way less development than NaruSaku.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 April 2013 - 03:40 PM.

[Branden]

I think its easy to tell that he wasnt entering sage-mode to find sasuke. He entered it to train it. Even with sage-mode its only possible to find persons in closer theretories. Naruto didnt know that sasuke was near, so it wouldnt make sense for him to just randomly activate sage mode to find him.

It does make sense. Naruto knew Sakura would be after Sasuke so all he had to do was find her. She didn't leave too long ago so she should be in range.

[Slextrem]

MinaKushi parallels NaruHina....
Just kidding. I'm better off not trying to assert that around here.

Yeah, that's not an argument you want to bring to this table.

Nevermind me. Listen to Red.

Edited by Slextrem, 08 April 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[redragon88]

MinaKushi parallels NaruHina....
Just kidding. I'm better off not trying to assert that around here.

Never be afraid of discussing what you want. As long as we don't rely on bashing it should be fine.

You tell us why you believe MinaKushi=NaruHina and I'm sure some users will make counterarguments to the best of their ability.

[Akashi]

Sakura's actions during the Land of Iron and the Summit Arc all revolve around Naruto, and even though it didn't lead to a better moment for her character, I still enjoy the idea that she had his well-being in mind. Despite her being used as a damsel in distress, her actions did lead to a very nice NaruSaku moment which eventually became a parallel of MinaKushi, so I'll also be a little bias about that arc.

Bolded text:
It's fun to watch how both Naruto and Sakura care so much for each-other: her in 579 thinking about his pain he has to go through all the time, and about how she and all of their friends will be there this time to help him / Naruto!clone saving Sakura and Shizune from Zetsu and asking "are hurt Sakura-chan?"...

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And that's where where our viewpoints diverge, my friend.

Looks like you really have to lurk about it

http://www.narusaku....showtopic=12836

[六道仙人]

It's funny when people say that Naruto can't be compared with Minat because their attitudes are different (non totally true) but who's the one, in the course of the story, that has been confused/paragoned with the yellow flash?

A clue. His name starts with "N" and ends with "O".

[PhenixElite]

It does make sense. Naruto knew Sakura would be after Sasuke so all he had to do was find her. She didn't leave too long ago so she should be in range.

I was talking about the time before sakura met him to confess.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 April 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[redragon88]

It's funny when people say that Naruto can't be compared with Minat because their attitudes are different (non totally true) but who's the one, in the course of the story, that has been confused/paragoned with the yellow flash?

A clue. His name starts with "N" and ends with "O".

Nagato?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Bolded text:
It's fun to watch how both Naruto and Sakura care so much for each-other: her in 579 thinking about his pain he has to go through all the time, and about how she and all of their friends will be there this time to help him / Naruto!clone saving Sakura and Shizune from Zetsu and asking "are hurt Sakura-chan?"...

Highly agreed. I also like his later sentence, knowing that nothing bad happened to her at all. I still like how he's about to say a comeback words to Obito, only to stopped by Sakura. Hm, I got a joke in mind...

It's funny when people say that Naruto can't be compared with Minat because their attitudes are different (non totally true) but who's the one, in the course of the story, that has been confused/paragoned with the yellow flash?

A clue. His name starts with "N" and ends with "O".

Lol. Ultimately, when in pairing, it's all about who is the Kushina of the current generation.

[Slextrem]

It's funny when people say that Naruto can't be compared with Minat because their attitudes are different (non totally true) but who's the one, in the course of the story, that has been confused/paragoned with the yellow flash?

A clue. His name starts with "N" and ends with "O".

All you need is this panel:


Naruto is like both of his parents and it's been shown time and time again throughout the manga.

[Don-kun]

Crimson, I really have to disagree with you on Hinata's confession. If not for the Kyuubi and Minato, Naruto would have been left in the exact same situation, regardless of Hinata's "efforts". Hinata couldn't haven known that her actions would eventually lead to Naruto losing control of Kurama and, thus, freeing himself from Pain. There was just no way that she had that in mind. In fact, I doubt that she had Naruto's rescue in mind, given the course of action she chooses to take.

For the sake of not having to repeat myself, I'm going to post an old comment I had made regarding Hinata's confession:

Hinata's confession --Click here to view--

The fact that Hinata wanted to interfere with the Pain fight isn't the problem that I have with her confession. Naruto clearly was in a bad spot and needed help. My problem lies in her intentions behind jumping into the battle. She didn't do it to save Naruto; she did it to confess her feelings so that she wouldn't have any regrets.

Hinata knew that she was no match against Pain; she knew that jumping down there all by herself would be pointless, but she did it anyway. If saving Naruto was truly what she wanted to do, then as a ninja, she should have been trying to come up with a plan to get Naruto out of that pinch. At the very least, she could have tried gathering other people to assist her. No one else was going to jump in after her because only the Hyuuga clan could actually see what was going on, and most of them were injured, unconscious, or dead. Her guard, for example, was down with a broken leg. That's why he couldn't stop her from leaving, and as we know, Neji was away from the village. Everyone else was blind to what was happening to Naruto - that's why no one else was trying to save him. (Plus Naruto had told everyone to believe in him and stay out of it...) She knew that, but still she didn't try to round up a team of less injured shinobi to go down there with her. Sure, a group would still be nothing against Pain, but they could have at least caused enough of a distraction for her to get the rods out of Naruto's arms. That was all she needed to do, as he could have pulled the rest out himself.

That didn't happen though. So now we have Hinata standing in front of Naruto with Pain, an enemy that was capable of completely crushing the village, staring her down. There were still other things that she could have done to save Naruto in this situation, or at least tried to help him with. The anime team pretty much covered the possibilities with their filler version of her confession. The first thing that filler Hinata does during her confession is attack the rods in Naruto. If saving Naruto was what she wanted to do, that would have been the obvious course of action, but canon Hinata doesn't do that.

Canon Hinata either wasn't trying to save Naruto, or actually thought that charging at Pain was going to do something to save Naruto, which clearly wasn't the case. Because I don't want to completely lose all hope in Hinata as a character, I choose to believe in the first option. All she wanted to do was confess to him so that she would have no regrets later on. She wasn't thinking about what she would do to help him after she confessed. She just wanted to get her feelings off of her chest as she thought that was her last opportunity to do so. That's what makes her confession selfish instead of selfless. She was acting for herself, not for Naruto. She didn't have his well-being in mind. If she did, she would have stopped to think about how witnessing a friend being murdered in front of him, while completely powerless to stop it, would have affected Naruto. Kyuubi or no Kyuubi, she had to have known that that wouldn't have affected him in a positive way, but she chooses to charge at Pain anyway.

The last point I want to make is that Hinata had no way of knowing, prior to jumping down there, that Naruto was going to unleash the Kyuubi's power. I don't even think she knew that Naruto had the Kyuubi in him at that point. This proves that she had no intention of saving him. Remove the Kyuubi from the equation and what was her plan? To jump in front of Naruto, (despite her guard telling her that she would only be in the way), confess, and charge Pain, all the while knowing that she stood no chance against him. None of which had anything to do with actually helping Naruto out of his predicament. Had it not been for the Kyuubi, Naruto would have been left in the exact same position that he was in before Hinata chose to "save him". Pinned to the ground with Pain standing over him. The only difference would be that Hinata's mangled body would be laying a few feet away from him. Nice one, Hinata.

She's lucky as hell that:
1) Naruto went Kyuubi, because ultimately that's what saved him.
2) He didn't accidentally step on her or pick her up and fling her mangled body into the horizon.
3) He was drawn away from the village, leaving what few survivors there were alive, (which was also thanks to Sakura having everyone evacuate)
4) Sakura was able to save her before it was too late.
5) Minato was there to save Naruto from being completely overtaken by the Kyuubi.

This was all pure luck. Hinata had no idea that any of this was going to happen.

I can agree with you on Sakura's actions regarding Sasuke. All of us were expecting more from her in that scenario, and honestly, I was upset to see her used as a damsel in distress twice. I wanted her to have a stronger resolve, but evidently, Kishimoto wanted Naruto's resolve to be stronger. Since the plot revolves and Naruto and Sasuke, that's not much of a surprise. Ultimately, Naruto is what holds Team Seven together. Without him, they would fall apart.

It just goes to show you how terrible Sakura love for Sasuke is for her. I am, however, pleased to see that she has shown signs from moving on from him since then. Chapter 540 is an indication that she views Sasuke in a negative light and has come to terms with the fact that he's not the same as he used to be. I believe that their next reunion will be very different from the one that occurred during the Summit Arc.

It's almost impossible for me to decide who have the upper hand in debating skill between you and Paptala.



That post was amazing.

[redragon88]

Highly agreed. I also like his later sentence, knowing that nothing bad happened to her at all. I still like how he's about to say a comeback words to Obito, only to stopped by Sakura. Hm, I got a joke in mind...

About that, I don't remember that happening. Naruto wasn't saying anything before talking to Sakura as far as I remember. It was afterwards that he started talking to Obito.