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#141 RyrineaHaruno

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 01:53 AM

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Jun 12 2009, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Number 2, please find where this was actually *stated* as fact, so that I can read it for myself.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta







Here are some pictures of Jakarta's slums

Here are the types of house youd find what he was living in.





Barack Obama lived in Indonesia as a result of his mother's marriage to an Indonesian man named Lolo, a student she met at the University of Hawaii.

-From Dreams from My Father,Barack Obama


Currency
Indonesian rupiah
Life Expectancy
68
GDP per Capita
U.S. $3,100=0.31 Indonesian Rupiah (IDR)
average income isn't that much money
Literacy Percent
89

QUOTE
The largest banknote is Rp 100,000, which may only be US$10 but is still inconveniently large for most purchases. Next in the series are Rp 50,000, Rp 20,000, Rp 10,000, Rp 5,000 and finally Rp 1,000. Bill size is the easiest way to distinguish them, as the designs — all pale pastel shades of yellow, green and brown — are confusingly similar and the smaller bills in particular are often filthy and mangled. (The new 2004-2005 series of notes has, however, corrected this to some extent.) A chronic shortage of small change — it's not unusual to get a few pieces of candy back instead of coins — has been to some extent alleviated by a new flood of plasticky aluminum coins, available in denominations of Rp 500, Rp 200, Rp 100, Rp 50 and the thoroughly useless Rp 25. Older golden metallic versions are also still floating around, and you may occasionally even run into a sub-1000 banknote. Bills printed in 1992 or earlier are no longer in circulation, but can be exchanged at banks.




10,000 rp=1.00

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 13 June 2009 - 02:08 AM.


#142 Cloud

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:05 AM

All that BS from wikipedia still doesn't show that he lived in the slums.

facepalm.png

#143 RyrineaHaruno

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:10 AM

QUOTE (Cloud @ Jun 12 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All that BS from wikipedia still doesn't show that he lived in the slums.

facepalm.png

Still I am trying to say that a average income doesn't mean that you lived fitly rich in a different country.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 13 June 2009 - 02:19 AM.


#144 Cloud

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:11 AM

QUOTE (RyrineaHaruno @ Jun 12 2009, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Still I trying to say that a avarice income doesn't mean that you lived fitly rich in a different country.


Av..avarice? rolleyes.gif

Right. Moving on. His stepfather was with Exxon Oil. I think that's pretty FILTHY rich.

#145 RyrineaHaruno

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:29 AM

QUOTE (Cloud @ Jun 12 2009, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Av..avarice? rolleyes.gif

Right. Moving on. His stepfather was with Exxon Oil. I think that's pretty FILTHY rich.

Yes, my uncle works for Exxon and he makes about 80,000 dollars ( thats with a masters degree) a year. He makes an income. He not be all means rich.

80,000.00 IDR=7.91805 USD. Know tell me how is that filthy rich.

#146 Cloud

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:32 AM

QUOTE (RyrineaHaruno @ Jun 12 2009, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, my uncle works for Exxon and he makes about 80,000 dollars ( thats with a masters degree) a year. He makes an income. He not be all means rich.

80,000.00 IDR=7.91805 USD. Know tell me how is that filthy rich.


.........

Exxon is an American company, therefore Obama's stepfather must have gotten paid in American dollars. I don't know what you keep getting at with the Indonesian dollar.

Yes, I know it's low. But the point is, his family was rich, therefore he made it in life.

P.S. 80k (USD) a year in some poor countries, you could live like a millionaire.

Edited by Cloud, 13 June 2009 - 02:35 AM.


#147 RyrineaHaruno

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:42 AM

QUOTE (Cloud @ Jun 12 2009, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kindly do some research.


I do my research thank you. Indonesian is where they lived most of his life before his mother moved to the untied states.

#148 Sora no Kitsune

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:58 AM

QUOTE (RyrineaHaruno @ Jun 12 2009, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I do my research thank you. Indonesian is where they lived most of his life before his mother moved to the untied states.

..... Obama moved to live with his grandparents in Hawaii when he was ten. I don't think thats most of his life. Obama never lived poor, he just wasn't the richest fellow in town. He grew up in Indonisia as a lowwer middle class citizen, and last time i checked, that was average, not poor. Plus most of his family was upper middle class, so Obama was never as poor as you say. He got by fine and did even better when he moved to Hawaii, so he was never classified as poor. Get your info straight before you go around proclaiming it's true.

Edited by Sora no Senshi, 13 June 2009 - 02:59 AM.


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#149 Pite

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 03:24 AM

Look, why one is to debate Obama's financial status when he was young. Though he cannot say that he came from humble beginnings, we shouldn't have a whole blown discussion about his early existance since it is not as important as his present stance or when he was getting older. Consider that shortly after graduating from Columbia he went on to work in a impoverished Chicago community and saw through his own eyes the poverty of the area. Here I want to say is that it does matter how he was raised, but alas his post-youth life also counts, not only so, it counts for more since his mind was already developed and could percieve things with better insight.

By seeing it through adult eyes one is able to see the truth better than through the eyes of a youngling.

About GM, I think that Chapter 11 is a good thing that GM did and it was good that it waited till now, since the chances for the Court to give Ch.11 to GM were much slimmer than now.

By slimming down GM and shedding excess companies and debt, GM is arguably in better shape than Ford which never applied for Gov't money. And despite Uncle Sam breathing at its neck, GM can focus in producing cars that people will buy.

Next issue, Oil. Oil. OIL! It has been on the rise for a while since the supply (in my opinion) finally cought up with the ailing demand. Not only so, but due to the falling gas prices people began to commute more often too. Notice that oil recently hit up to $73 which spells another wave of rising gas prices in all global markets. That could possibly give another punch to the ailing global economy, since rising oil/gas prices drive up the cost of export ,that could lead to the inflation of food prices in both rich and poor economies (look at the riots in the Carribean from a year ago).

Ladies and gentelman, quoting Sir Winston Churchill "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning. " There is still a long way to go and the world ain't gonna be the same after this storm is over.
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#150 Nate River

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 03:57 AM

QUOTE
By slimming down GM and shedding excess companies and debt, GM is arguably in better shape than Ford which never applied for Gov't money. And despite Uncle Sam breathing at its neck, GM can focus in producing cars that people will buy.


They could, but they won't. As a ward of the state, they'll make cars the politicians want them to make i.e. green cars (something Obama has already said), which are notoriously unprofitable vehicles that have to propped up by the sale of cars people actually want (see Chevy Volt)

And there has already been political meddling with the closures, with numerous members of Congress (Barney Frank for example) having cows about the ones closed in THEIR district and asking for exemptions (which he got). Obama says he'll be hands off and if you believe that, then I'm Superman.

Moreover, they still have yet to significantly slim down the two expenses that helped lead them to where they are: pensions and health care.

The other problem: as a ward of the state, they're freer from competition than Ford and others because they can run a loss and not go under (taxpayers just pick up the tab). You know Obama will never let this company die, not matter how much it bleeds because of his "dedication" to his union benefactors.

#151 Pite

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 04:41 AM

Well, UAW is considered the most powerful worker's union. I think that the times of Unions is at its dawn since the UAW contributed to the rising problems of the GM by demanding high wages and big perks few years ago. Quite recently did the UAW agree upon lowering the wages to match those paid by Toyota in the US.

Also, it is true that "special interest" people will demand "clememcy" on the GM equity there. As ususla politicians seem more about their own intersts in short term rather than the good of the nation. So sad that the politicians of the world seem to be more concern about how the people think about them now, not on how the people will think about them. But it seems to be thr bane of all politicians, and with the resurging populst movement (look at the outrageously irrational outrage on the AIG bonuses for an example.)
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#152 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 07:47 PM

Obama is once again trying to take over another large institution, and have *his* government run it >.>

Even Democrats are against this latest 'government takeover' of Obama's

No more free markets under Obama's rule

#153 Nate River

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 08:38 PM

But of course.

This is the same Obama Administration that refused to take TARP money back over concerns they'd lose the control it gave them. This is simply the next step.

He promised "change" and now he's giving it to us. Hooray. Can't wait for that "public option." dry.gif

#154 Pite

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 10:51 PM

I think that the fact that the TARP funds being repaid so fast is a bad thing since it could indicate that some banks might try to od on their own and possibly fail due to the lack of such funds. I think that the fact of gov't control should've been reduced onder the TARP program. That could've placated the people and the comapnies to take up the TARP.
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#155 Sir Whirly

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 10:57 PM

QUOTE (Nate River @ Jun 18 2009, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But of course.

This is the same Obama Administration that refused to take TARP money back over concerns they'd lose the control it gave them. This is simply the next step.

He promised "change" and now he's giving it to us. Hooray. Can't wait for that "public option." dry.gif


I am curious about one thing though, Nate. These sweeping reforms and 'government' control, would it have come to fruition if your so called 'conservatives' kept their damn hands out of the cookie jar.

This is just the effect of the cause. We voted him in to do these things because of the rampant greed and corruption of these large corporation.

Do I agree with what he is doing? No.

Do I blame him? No. This is the fault of those who have no compassion for those below them financially. Personally I would rather have seen all these corporations fall and seen all those responsible be strung up by their toes, but most see my thought as a bit draconian.

The conservatives are anything but, and the liberals are exactly what they say they are. We doomed ourselves by believing the lies of those with money, power and religion. Now we suffer.

Edited by Sir Whirly, 18 June 2009 - 10:58 PM.



#156 Nate River

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 01:22 AM

QUOTE (Sir Whirly @ Jun 18 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am curious about one thing though, Nate. These sweeping reforms and 'government' control, would it have come to fruition if your so called 'conservatives' kept their damn hands out of the cookie jar.

This is just the effect of the cause. We voted him in to do these things because of the rampant greed and corruption of these large corporation.

Do I agree with what he is doing? No.

Do I blame him? No. This is the fault of those who have no compassion for those below them financially. Personally I would rather have seen all these corporations fall and seen all those responsible be strung up by their toes, but most see my thought as a bit draconian.

The conservatives are anything but, and the liberals are exactly what they say they are. We doomed ourselves by believing the lies of those with money, power and religion. Now we suffer.


You don't think I'm disappointed in their spending habits during the last decade? You bet I am. I was sorely disappointed when Bush joined the Democrats in pushing for TARP and for bailing out GM. He shouldn't have done either.

I remember the last financial regulations reform that came when Enron went under. It was called Sarbanes-Oxley and came with burdensome reporting reurements and the now infamous, mark-to-market regulation, which required people to value assets at what they were worth now. This was in the name of protecting the world from Enron and World Com. Of course, the unintended consequence of this law was to absolutely punish small business because the costs of compliance and the market to market made little sense because business don't always buy assets with their current value in mind, and, thus, helped inflate losses the banks suffered.

Was any of that intended? Hell, no. One thing government regulation has taught is there is not a thing in the universe that best illustrates the concept of unintended consequences. I don't care who proposes it, I'm always skeptical of "comprehensive" reform, especially in response to a crisis.

The cure is often more poisonous than the disease.

How is this the fault of those who have no compassion for this below them? Who has no compassion for those below them and HOW did they cause this mess? It's like Yoshimoto claiming "deregulation" without ever explaining anything.

This ignores the Community Reinvestiment Act, ignores that people like Janet Reno and Barney Frank threatened banks to make those subprime loans, ignores that Republicans warned of this in 2005 only to be called racists, and ignores the infamous "liar" loans. Everything is portrayed as the fault of business and Republicans. Nothing is the fault of THIS government. AIG gets roasked alive, while everyone ignores the ever larger bonuses given out at Freddie and Fannie. 's jsut Oh, and Freddie and Fannie are big contributors to Dems such as Obama, for example. But, that's probably just a coincidence. This is hardly all conservatives fault.

Is business blameless? No, but this is far, far from being all their fault.

Blame him? You may not, but I absolutely do. This is simply the effect of the cause? Bull.

Obama's chosen solutions are his own. He whines about the pain that Bush caused and how it made all this is necessary. I have never see a politician heep everything on his predecessor the way this guy does. He did not cause this initial crisis, but he is making it worse. This spending was necessary in response to the crisis? Garbage.

He CHOSE to keep funneling money to GM and Chrysler even as the continued coming back for more, and he chose to become owner while threatening bondholders who didn't take well to being screwed. Bush may have made the first loan, but he was NOT obligated to do it again when faced with evidence it wasn't going to work.

GM and Chrysler could have been left to file Chapter 11 on their own and gone through a normal bankruptcy. They weren't.

He could have chose to listen to the CBO and not pass the failure of a stimulus. He didn't.

He could wait to "fix" health until the economy rebounds. He's not.

He could pass on Cap and Tax and prevent it from killing the economy. He's not.

He doesn't have to pass paycaps and undercut own tax revenue at a time when he desperately needs any dime he can find.

Absolutely none of this is mandatory. Perhaps something needed to be done, but these policies and this takeover are far from his only options. He chose his solution and deserves to be saddled with its consequences.

You want to see those corporations fall? Alright. You can be the messenger who informs every little guy that works for them that they are now out of job. They're better off unemployed than working for an evil corporation anyway, right? I fail to see how punishing these evil doers actually solves anything. It may make people feel better, but it won't revive the economy.

What amazes me about it is that people can excoriate business and damn them all to hell as if it always self-evident and they all screw everyone all the time. It's easy to complain and roast business when it not YOUR employer that gets creamed. It's easy to support pay caps when it isn't your pay being capped.

Let me ask you something, if Obama can cap CEO pay? What's to stop him from telling you how much your allowed to make?

Oh, and you think Obama wouldn't be pushing Cap and Tax, Health Care "reform" if the economy hadn't tanked?

#157 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 01:29 AM

^ Hear hear.

#158 Sir Whirly

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 05:07 AM

I apologize for that last post, that was a poorly written rant, that I spent no time writing or thinking about. I am not saying I agree with you on everything, but there was meant to be more towards the fact that both parties are the one and the same.


#159 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 06:01 PM

Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen -

President Obama's campaign for health care reform by this fall, once considered highly likely to succeed, suddenly appears in real jeopardy.

Top White House advisers, especially chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, are still privately predicting massive changes to the health care system in 2009. But for the first time, Democrats on Capitol Hill and in the administration are expressing frank worries about stronger-than-expected opposition from moderate Democrats and worse-than-expected estimates for how much the plan could cost.

Business groups, which had embraced the idea of reform and have been meeting quietly with Democrats for months in an effort to shape the legislation, now talk of spending millions of dollars to oppose the latest proposals out of Capitol Hill. And Democrats themselves are not united, with leading party figures making contradictory declarations about how far they should go to overhaul the system when deficits are soaring and prospects for an economic recovery remain cloudy.

And top Democratic officials tell POLITICO they are increasingly pessimistic about getting any more Republican votes than they did on the stimulus package, with some aides referring to the idea of a bipartisan bill as "fool's gold" — an unattainable waste of time.

“This was always going to be messy,” said a senior administration strategist. “It got messy faster and earlier than people thought. But none of it is anything that’s going to stop it.”

Emanuel is anxious for the president to sign the new law by October so that Democrats have a year to campaign on it ahead of congressional midterms, aides say. Administration officials concede the new kinks in the schedule make that harder.

It has been conventional wisdom Obama would overcome a sluggish start by congressional Democrats to win approval of his plan this fall — perhaps even backed by a notable number of Republicans. But there is a growing list of reasons this conventional wisdom could be wrong:

Money troubles

Public anxiety about red ink — muted during this winter’s debate over an economic stimulus package — has come roaring back, with a Gallup Poll showing deficits and spending as the only issues where more people disapprove of Obama’s performance than approve of it.

Republicans think the “borrow and spend” issue may be the biggest single vulnerability for Obama and the Democrats in the midterm congressional elections of 2010 and the presidential year of 2012. The president’s own advisers privately agree.

That’s one of the reasons Obama is emphasizing what he calls “savings” — otherwise known as cuts — that would help pay for his plans.

That is why Democrats admit that it was a public relations disaster this week when the Congressional Budget Office issued a report this week concluding, from a partial draft of a Senate health committee bill, that the plan would cost $1 trillion over 10 years but only provide coverage for 16 million of the estimated 50 million Americans who are uninsured.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a member of the health committee, said on Fox News Thursday that he considers the CBO finding “a devastating blow to the administration’s plan.”

Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) now says Democrats will need to come up with a bill that costs less than $1 trillion — but many liberals say it would be meaningless to do something that small and leave so many people still uninsured.

A crowded stage

Everyone has big ideas for changing the health care system — and many lawmakers have waited years, in some cases their entire careers — to put their stamp on it.

That’s why you have clashing Democratic ideas from Obama, Sen. Ted Kennedy (Mass.), Baucus, Rep. Henry Waxman (Calif.) and many others.

Democrats say they sorely miss the constant presence of Kennedy, chairman of the health committee and longtime champion of the issue, who has retreated to Massachusetts as he battles cancer.

Some worried officials say Kennedy would never have allowed the strategic blunder of submitting the incomplete health committee bill for CBO scoring, which produced estimates that have been a public relations nightmare.

Without Kennedy to mediate Democratic infighting, Obama and his top aides are going to have to do it. But based on the lessons learned from the disastrous White House micromanaging of health care under President Bill Clinton back in 1993, Obama’s aides are holding off for now, letting Congress find its own way.

“It’s too soon to be cracking heads,” said one administration official.

At some point they will probably have to be more immersed in the deal making because there are many moderate Democrats who are cool to many of the ideas pushed by Obama and their congressional leaders.

False hope

For most of this year, it has appeared that Obama and business interests were searching for common ground. But this was always somewhat of a charade. It was in the political self-interest of Obama and the business community to go through the motions of working together — even while reserving the option to go to war.

As details have emerged, business groups that had sounded supportive are suddenly openly critical, with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce referring to the Senate health committee blueprint as “a dangerous proposal” in an e-mail to members.

Insurance companies see an existential threat in Obama’s plan to include an option for government coverage, even though the administration says it is not meant to drive the industry out of business. But health finance experts believe such a plan would inevitably drain dollars from the private-sector market.

It is virtually impossible to sketch out a plan that can pass a Democratic Congress — and contain some version of a public option for insurance — that will not provoke a major backlash among the best-funded business groups. This means millions of dollars in TV ads warning of government attempts to control and ration care.

Recognizing the need to woo an increasingly skeptical public, House Democrats on Friday afternoon plan to release — in conjunction with their draft health reform bill — a new pitch called “12 Ways Health Care Reform Will Help You and Your Family.”

The House Democrats’ description paints a utopian picture: lower costs, including more affordable monthly premiums, an annual cap on out-of-pocket expenses and “an end to rate increases based on preexisting conditions, age or gender”; “greater choice” and “peace of mind” so that job and life choices don’t have to be based on insurance considerations.

“No more denial of coverage for preexisting conditions like diabetes, cancer or heart disease,” a late draft of the document says. “More family doctors and nurses entering the work force at better payment rates.”

Big bang backfire

The White House’s “big bang” theory of proposing a raft of landmark legislation all at once is giving way to fears of a “big chaos” backlash. Congressional chairmen saying that the pipes are overloaded between health care and climate legislation — and that was before this week’s arrival of the biggest overhaul of financial regulations in 70 years.

And don’t forget Congress needs to fit in work on all of its annual spending bills and take a month off in August.

This mad rush of legislation is posing fiscal and tactical problems for Democrats.

They simply don’t have the money to change the health care system, overhaul the energy sector and increase domestic spending as part of the appropriations process — without imposing big tax increases or exploding the deficit. Something has to give. Even if they did, the gears of Congress move slowly. Any or all of these proposals could easily jam them up.

To keep the pressure on, the Democratic National Committee embarked this week on a major fundraising campaign for a “Summer Organizer Program” that will hire hundreds of staffers for Organizing for America, the new name for the Obama campaign’s grass-roots organization. The plan is to build a summer grass-roots campaign around health care, an effort strategists believe will later morph into Obama’s reelection army.

“Please donate whatever you can afford to support the campaign for real health care reform in 2009,” pleads an e-mail purporting to come directly from “President Barack Obama.” “The campaign to pass real health care reform in 2009 is the biggest test of our movement since the election. … To prevail, we must once more build a coast-to-coast operation ready to knock on doors, deploy volunteers, get out the facts and show the world how real change happens in America.

The enemy smells blood

Republicans did a poor job of trying to stop the economic stimulus bill earlier this year, in part because they were confounded by a popular president with very few obvious weak spots.

Obama remains popular, and his ideas for fixing health care remain more popular than the Republicans'. But Obama’s vulnerabilities are starting to show.

Public concerns with heavy government spending are rising. A new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found more people want the focus to be on deficit reduction, not new spending to boost the economy.

The public is also expressing unease with the government’s increasing role in the economy.

#160 Nate River

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 06:33 PM

The short answer is: people are seeing what it costs and they don't like the price tag or what people are proposing to pay for it. After what they did to McCain, there is no way they'll get away with taxing employee health benefits, which won't work anyway when businesses dump private insurance and move to the public option (which they don't mind because now someone else has to pay for it).

The CBO predictied 1.6 trillion and said even that wouldn't even cover all the current uninsured. It's massive, ask anybody who's tried it what it does to your budget.

Doctors hate it because for them it's going to be medicare part 2, which they already dislike. If you want to know what to expect from his plan, look at Medicare. Look at Canadian health care. They don't routinely cross the border for American health care for no good reason.




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