225 replies to this topic

[No WhereMan]

It's the whole Darth Vader thing. He's been seduced by the dark side, the dark side being his thirst and ambition for revenge, it's clouding Sasuke's judgement and who he really is.

And if deep down, in his heart of hearts he truly believed in what he is doing, if he truly would do anything to get revenge, absolutely anything and stop anyone who gets in his way, he would've killed Naruto at the valley of the end. He would've killed him and obtained Mangenkyou Sharingan. Or he would've done it again just recently.

Both times Sasuke wouldn't kill Naruto. I think deep down, in a way, Sasuke wants Naruto to stop him.

Once again I'm gonna have to disagree with you. Sasuke knows exactly what he's doing. He didn't kill Naruto because wanted to spite his brother. And look he got the Mangenkyou Sharingan anyway, so he's proving to his brother he can attain his own power without going the same route.

Sasuke doesn't want Naruto to stop him, he just wants Naruto to leave him alone so he can do his power trip thing in peace. That's why he keeps saying, leave me alone. He hasn't killed Naruto because it hasn't been nessesary. It was clear Naruto was outclassed, so killing him would have been a waste of time.

Hell he said he was going to kill Sai too, for waking him up, and he has no ties to Sai. He didn't do it because killing Sai who was clearly underneath him, would have been wasting Chakra and effort.

I want people to get away from this notion that Sasuke's is a tragic antihero. He's not. He's just selfish. He's been doign what he's always been doing since the begining of the series, what he wants regardless of what everyone else thinks and how it affects them.

You see evidence of this during the Chuunin exam, where Sakura was going to tell someone about his cursed seal, but he slapped her hand down, downright ordering to stay out of it. Or when he decided to abandon the village his family was famous for defending for several generations to join with said village's most nortorious enemy. The same enemy that was responsible for killing the 3rd Hokage. Or when his best friend and classmates all risked their life to bring him back and shuns their efforts.

Its like this, Sasuke's goals and wishes comes before everything and everyone else in his eyes. Its that plain and simple. There is no mystical darkside, clouding his thoughts. (And to be honest, as a StarWars freak, to be technically correct, the 'Darkside' isn't what clouded Anakin's judgement to turn on the Jedi. It was his fear and insecurity of losing Padme that prompted it. The 'Darkside' can't take root if you don't allow it to in the first place. His fear got the better of him. Which is why its always been an important Jedi trait to not allow your emotions to dictate your actions. Anakin Skywalker never learned this basic rule and thus he fell.)

I think the real reason why I'm oppose to this whole Sasuke's given in to his dark ambition and blah, blah, blah. Because that reasoning obsolves him from whatever he's currently doing. Saying, "Its ok, he betrayed his friends and village. He's having a tough time now..." And that's just unforgivable. Like saying you can do whatever you want, because you have an angsty past. I mean that's how life goes sometimes, deal with it.

Naruto had a rough childhood too, on par with Sasuke. But I think his childhood and the many trials he had to go through has made him a better person for it. If anything Sasuke's a victem of having poor character and not a strong enough will. But that doesn't mean, what he's doing right now is ok. And it never should be.

[TheVileOne]

And if it really came down to it, Sasuke still wouldn't kill Naruto. That simple. I didn't see him with Mangenkyou Sharingan either.

[Nick Soapdish]

And if it really came down to it, Sasuke still wouldn't kill Naruto. That simple. I didn't see him with Mangenkyou Sharingan either.

He's already demonstrated that he's capable of trying to make a killing blow. I'm sure that if he did, a little part of him would feel very badly about that, but he's buried that little part as deeply as he can (and with Orochimaru's help).

[TheVileOne]

He's buried it but he still has it. There's a difference between demonstrating and actually going through with it. Something I still don't think Sasuke would do.

Even Haku didn't go through with killing Naruto and Sasuke even though it was the will of Zabuza.

[Nick Soapdish]

He's buried it but he still has it. There's a difference between demonstrating and actually going through with it. Something I still don't think Sasuke would do.

But he did go through it at the Valley of the End.

He certainly had no way of knowing or expecting that Naruto was going to survive being impaled by a chidori.

[No WhereMan]

And if it really came down to it, Sasuke still wouldn't kill Naruto. That simple.

Sasuke hasn't killed Naruto. You cannot say wouldn't because he hasn't been put in a position where killing Naruto is necessary. Like, we've seen in the manga Naruto hasn't really done anything to Sasuke besides get on his nerves and continually try to get him back. There would be no point in killing him.

Now if Naruto did something like tell Sasuke, he was going after Itachi before he could. Yeah, Sasuke would probably kill Naruto, because he's saved that pleasure for himself. He believes its his right.

[Arsene]

And if it really came down to it, Sasuke still wouldn't kill Naruto. That simple.

Sasuke hasn't killed Naruto. You cannot say wouldn't because he hasn't been put in a position where killing Naruto is necessary. Like, we've seen in the manga Naruto hasn't really done anything to Sasuke besides get on his nerves and continually try to get him back. There would be no point in killing him.

Now if Naruto did something like tell Sasuke, he was going after Itachi before he could. Yeah, Sasuke would probably kill Naruto, because he's saved that pleasure for himself. He believes its his right.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

After exclaiming that Sai woke him up for "bonds", Sasuke and Sai have a brief exchange of jutsu, with Sasuke winning. Because of the force generated from the chakra of the jutsu, Sasuke's room's walls and ceiling caved outward, leaving Sai and Sasuke staring at each other for a moment. At this exact moment, Sakura spots Sai in the hallway and runs to him and would have probably punched him if not for Sasuke quietly saying Sakura's name, stopping her in her tracks. Naruto, in his weakened state, finally catches up amid heavily labored breathing. Seeing Sai and Sakura not moving and starring in the same direction leads Naruto to come face to face with Sasuke, staring directly in each other's eyes.

As Sasuke observes the new Team Kakashi from above, Sai explains to Naruto and Sakura that his desire to protect the bond between Naruto and Sasuke had overridden the mission that Danzo had given him. Sasuke then says that he has broken his bond of friendship with Naruto, and the only bond he has left was the bond of hatred he shared with Itachi. Sasuke left Naruto alive before on a whim; now, he will kill Naruto. Sasuke then shows off his new powers by moving down next to Naruto with blinding speed and tells Naruto that someone who dreams of becoming Hokage shouldn't risk it all by chasing after one man.

As both Sai and Yamato move to try and protect Naruto, Sasuke shows them a new product of his training: Chidori Current, allowing him to project a Chidori-like effect from all over his body, both defensively and offensively. As Naruto and Sai lie stunned on the ground due to this jutsu, while Sasuke deals with Sakura and Yamato. Sakura realizes the nature of this jutsu, but still attempts to attack Sasuke with her monstrous strength, but is blocked by Yamato, who ended up impaled by the Kusanagi sword Sasuke was wielding. Sasuke then proceeds to flow the Chidori down the sword, effectively paralyzing Yamato. Sasuke looks down to see Naruto dragging himself over to him and Yamato. Naruto has partially transformed into the Kyubi, with his eyes turning red and slit-like, his whisker-marks deepening, hair becomes spikier, and his fingernails turning into claws. Meanwhile, in Naruto's mind, he comes face to face with the demon fox Kyubi, who implores him to use his Kyubi power. When Naruto refuses, the demon scoffs, saying Naruto has always come to him in times of need and that Naruto is worthless without his power. Suddenly, Sasuke somehow also appears in front of the Kyubi (stunning both Naruto and Kyubi), and marvels at finally finding the source of Naruto's power. Sasuke can clearly see the Kyubi inside Naruto and appears to be able to seal its power from within Naruto.

Kyubi then remembers his past history with the Uchiha clan. And states how the Uchiha may possess chakra even more evil than his own "just like that Uchiha Madara".

As Sasuke represses the Kyubi's chakra, the fox leaves him with a strange message:

"Don't kill Naruto, you would regret it."

Outside of Naruto's mind, Yamato manages to escape from Sasuke's hold and body-numbing Kusanagi sword by using a Mokuton jutsu to push it out of his wound. He quickly then tries to hold Sasuke in a Mokuton prison but Sasuke quickly breaks through and jumps on a nearby cliff rendering Yamato's jutsu useless.

Sasuke looks down on Team 7. Naruto yells out to Sasuke that Orochimaru is just using Sasuke for his body, to which Sasuke tells Naruto that if it helps to kill Itachi then he doesn't care. That neither he nor Orochimaru is powerful enough to defeat Itachi and he will do whatever it takes. Yamato then tells Naruto and Sakura that he didn't want to hurt Sasuke in front of them but he has no choice now and will "finish this". To which Sasuke also replies he will "finish this" as Sasuke begins to form hand seals.

Orochimaru returns just in time to stop Sasuke from performing a "certain jutsu" (we are left wondering what it is). Kabuto also tells Sasuke that letting the Konoha shinobi manage the other Akatsuki would make his revenge easier by 1%. Sasuke tells Kabuto that's a poor excuse to not kill Naruto. Sasuke then leaves with Orochimaru and Kabuto, leaving Naruto and his teammates alone. Naruto feels completely helpless and upset from the shallow encounter. He feels that once again he was powerless to stop Sasuke from leaving and begins to cry. Naruto and Sakura are also clearly upset that Sasuke is no longer the same person they used to know. Sakura, with tears in her eyes, tells Naruto that feeling sorry for himself will not save Sasuke. She reminds him that she's still here and that together they will get stronger. Sai reminds the team that they still have about six months left to save Sasuke and that he'll join them with helping bring Sasuke back.

http://en.wikipedia....ot_of_Naruto_II

[Vespar]

You probably should've put that in spoiler quotes, Arsene.

But yeah, Sasuke is willing to die to accomplish his goal. So saying that, if there's an obstacle, he'll chidori it and keep plowing on through.

[No WhereMan]

You probably should've put that in spoiler quotes, Arsene.

But yeah, Sasuke is willing to die to accomplish his goal. So saying that, if there's an obstacle, he'll chidori it and keep plowing on through.

ROFLMAO! Excellent quote! And its so very true. Yeah, Sasuke doesn't let little things like friendship and honor, get in the way of his goals.

[gamerman_007]

You probably should've put that in spoiler quotes, Arsene.

But yeah, Sasuke is willing to die to accomplish his goal. So saying that, if there's an obstacle, he'll chidori it and keep plowing on through.

ROFLMAO! Excellent quote! And its so very true. Yeah, Sasuke doesn't let little things like friendship and honor, get in the way of his goals.

Of course not, since he's a ruthless selfish bastard! That's the way to go to never get laid! Ever! Since he'll kill his wife for more power :thumbs:

[/not bashing sasuke, but stating the truth]

[Shadow0fabandit]

Sasusaku=Dead

Matt

[IchaIcha]

I don't think SasuSaku is dead

Sasuke doesn't want Naruto to stop him, he just wants Naruto to leave him alone so he can do his power trip thing in peace. That's why he keeps saying, leave me alone. He hasn't killed Naruto because it hasn't been nessesary. It was clear Naruto was outclassed, so killing him would have been a waste of time.

IMO, Sasuke was actually very eager to kill Naruto. But I don't think he wanted to kill him entirely based on the reason for Naruto getting in the way of his ambitions, but rather to prove to himself that "the ties are broken". (Naruto and Sasuke had a strong friendship, thats a fact. And judging from his character traits, I'm guessing that he's the type that has the ability to act)

I think the real reason why I'm oppose to this whole Sasuke's given in to his dark ambition and blah, blah, blah. Because that reasoning obsolves him from whatever he's currently doing. Saying, "Its ok, he betrayed his friends and village. He's having a tough time now..." And that's just unforgivable. Like saying you can do whatever you want, because you have an angsty past. I mean that's how life goes sometimes, deal with it.

Naruto had a rough childhood too, on par with Sasuke. But I think his childhood and the many trials he had to go through has made him a better person for it. If anything Sasuke's a victem of having poor character and not a strong enough will. But that doesn't mean, what he's doing right now is ok. And it never should be.

I wanna say something about that, but its late, so I'll just copy and paste a few things I said in a different forum:

I would like to believe that Naruto and Sasuke's past are parellel, but I don't. But I do believe that Naruto and Sasuke shared the same lonliness.
Honestly, what do you find more painful? Not knowing or losing something important?

Naruto, as you can see, has begun with lonliness and rejection. It is pretty sad to begin life with people detesting you, and you wouldn't know any reason to being hurt. To begin with a hard life is unbearable, but this is where I find the situation ironic because I find that Naruto's pain is much more lighter than Sasuke's. Naruto started out with lonliness, never experiencing the feelings of love. Because Naruto doesn't know what having friends, family, ect. feels like, Naruto doesn't know the level of security he stands at. Overall, Naruto is completely clueless (or naive) when refering to holding company. He did not lose anything but, he didn't gain anything either, which obviously results to him trying to gain attention (a much more positive outcome compared to Sasuke)

If you guys notice, Sasuke was a bit like Naruto when he was young. He had positive goals, he was very idealistic and he looked up to people (solely Itachi) Sasuke was actually a very optimistic kid-in fact, Sasuke was like Naruto! Even if Sasuke was experiencing conflicts with his family, such as meeting up to his father's expectations, he still loved them not to mention that he knew the feeling of being important. Sadly, Itachi, the brother that he loved, killed off all of his family and any connection to the Uchihas. Its like taking candy away from a baby ^^ Sasuke had everything and now he has nothing. Because he had specific knowledge of holding connections, the pain is much more than just being rejected because there was actually something great to lose. Obviously, there wouldn't be any positive outcomes from this incident.

Character traits such as views, perspectives and speech are created from personal experiences (namely, one's past) Naruto has his own type of character because of his childhood experiences. His naive and care-free additude derives from "not knowing" what is there; meaning, no boundries and restrictions. If Naruto was supposedly BEGAN in Sasuke's situation, I would find that the conclusion would end up very simular, Naruto would be mimicing Sasuke's doing.

Personally, it would be pretty hard to imagine Naruto taking revenge, no? But its a fact that when people are young, they shape their character according to current events or surroundings. Notice how the mind of a child starts out very bias, none the less vunerable. Take the Uchiha Clan masscre and place it with any young person, the result will always end up the same because that person is "new" to the event. Lets skip the psychological steps and get to the first impressions to the incident. The first impressions that would be felt, judging from Sasuke's perspective, would be; hatred, decieved and hostility.

IMO, Naruto would not be able to stand any of those feelings with just optimistic thoughts alone. Also try to consider the fact that the incident would be experienced at such a young age- its like a chain. Sasuke may be some selfish-introverted prick, but I think hes got pretty good reasons to deciding negative paths. I stated before, children are bias, so a first impression would most likely latch on.

Otherwise, take Gaara's character for example, his past situation was exactly like Naruto's past but it involved the loss of something important, and the outcome of the experience was negative (like Sasuke's) The situation can also relate to Neji's experiences. Neji lost his father. I think you know where I'm going with this.

Ahh whatever. I'm just trying to defend Sasuke! Sasuke is selfish... but seriously, who isn't?

[Nick Soapdish]

Otherwise, take Gaara's character for example, his past situation was exactly like Naruto's past but it involved the loss of something important, and the outcome of the experience was negative (like Sasuke's) The situation can also relate to Neji's experiences. Neji lost his father. I think you know where I'm going with this.

And Gaara and Neji have been warm and open with their teammates, etc. ever since!

Regarding the thrust of the rest of your post, I agree that both characters would be different had they been in different situations, although I don't see how we can judge exactly how. How can anyone really compare the pain of "loved and lost" vs. "never loved at all" without having been through both? I think I'd rather the former just so I'd have something as a frame of reference, but I can't really know.

But I think that you need to look at a character based on how they've reacted to the situations that they've been through, not based on how they might react to other hypothetical situations. Everybody has tough times of some sort, whether it's large or small. How we define ourselves as people is how we react to those situations. It's the only thing about our lives that we can truly claim any measure of control over.

And yeah, SasuSaku isn't dead.

But I'm hoping.

[Earlymike]

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Ok, judging from the new chapter that's put out. With Sasuke's total lack of hesitation to kill Sakura or anyone else for that matter...

What else can SasuSaku people say really?

Ohhhhh But he was under the influence of Oroichimaru!!! When he breaks loose he'll turn into sir lance-a-lot and make everything right! :thumbs: .....

SURE

Anyway, this is Naruto's chance. He just gotta lay down some madd sick game on da b*tch yo.

[gamerman_007]

While I have yet to believe SasuSaku is 100% dead, one can not deny that it has a lot of factors against it.

1) Sakura's crush: IRL, if you confess your feelings to someone and they reject you......wouldn't you eventually let go? Maybe try to be friends. IMO, it would stupid of Sakura to still believe that Sasuke will like her back. BUt what about Naruto you may ask? Naruto has never confessed, and Sakura hs never rejected his confession so.

2) Sasuke: The biggest threat to the pairing, besides kishi's drawing utensils, is Sasuke. Sai says he lacks a kitten

[adrianna]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but,

Are you talking about Sasusaku being dead in the manga, or in the minds of the fans?

If we look at it, then yes it does sort have a foot in the grave. Sasuke's lack of hesitation in killing Sakura, but the fact that he didn't happen to kill her, fans of the pairing will still continue to like SasuSaku.

To us, the fact that he didn't hesitate in attempting to kill her means it's dead.

I believe it depends on what side of the big wall between the pairings you happen to be on, on wether it's dead or not.

I, personally can't say it's dead for the fact that there are still fans of SasuSaku existing (and no, I'm not implying that we kill them ourselves )

Edited by adrianna, 20 September 2006 - 09:40 PM.

[GoNeKr@zY]

Well...... Speaking as a long-time NaruTema fan (hey... dun hurt me XD I love NaruSaku too but NaruTema's my OTP)...... I think we're talking about SasuSaku in the manga. I doubt the pairing will ever die in the minds of the fans.... it just ain't gonna happen regardless if any other pairing becomes canon or not. (Besides..... NaruTema will NEVER happen in the manga.... and i still luv it to death lol)

[puckreathof]

As much as I'd like to think it's all dead, it's not over till the fat lady sings and all that. Signs are leaning towards that, but you never know.

As far as Sasuke's reasons, some parts jealousy, some parts Magenkyou, some parts breaking bonds, and that's basically it. The only way Naruto gets in the way of his ambitions is by stopping the move to Orochimaru.

and as far as pasts go, yes, Sasuke had it real rough, he lost his entire family. That sucks, true. But at the same time, everybody else at least tried to accept him. We don't know how empty or not the admiration of the village was for him, but he was respected. Surely, he had people ready to give him the sort of acceptance/love that his family would have. He chose not to seek it. Why? vengeance trip.

Naruto on the other hand not only did not have a family, but he could see, at least, what it was like to have a family, and suffer. Also, it isn't just that he didn't have a family. He was shunned, hated, and despised by EVERYBODY. Every single adult, and in turn, their children (except for Sandaime, Iruka, Ichiraku and Ayame I'd guess) stared at him with cold hateful eyes. Every single eye in the village was turned to him with hate.

I'll at least provide that the point that Gaara and Sasuke are similar in the extent that they've both lost, and maybe this is truly worse than what Naruto's gone through, but I don't entirely agree with it. Also, we don't know to what extent Naruto suffered from the villagers. Actually, it's funny, because Gaara was hated as NAruto was, and lost something, so really, Gaara is the combination of the two. What I may be trying to say is that perhaps neither situation is enough to warrant it (as Naruto was only shunned, and all Sasuke did was lose his family), it being the reactions of Sasuke and Gaara in basically going evil and killing machine and such, but Sasuke whose skewed priorities rule his life has chosen the wrong path.

Maybe I missed what I wanted to really say in that sentence. Basically, Loss+shun=assured psycho. Loss or Shun Ø= psycho. Avenger mindset does. or say Sasuke's weaker of will (although I don't really believe that. His will level goes to that of obsessed, when he's set on something.) That's it.

So, fat lady, not yet sung, but signs are good.

[Jameshawking]

mreh. trying to kill each other (super-fist to the head, sword to thge heart) would normally qualify as an end to romantic involvement.

Sasuke saw Naruto heal a chidori in seconds, and he couldn't pull away when throwing the chidori, so he aimed for a non-vital area.

[FullmetalNinja25]

I didnt want to go there but I will....

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

SasuSaku is dead because Sasuke is. Explain you say? Well when Sasuke wanted the power of his curse mark unlocked he was told that in order for that to happen he would have to "die" thus like the Sound Five he is nothing more than an animated corpse and if his seal mark were to be removed I'd bet he'd die permanently.