235 replies to this topic

[Nostradamus]

I mean, Trunks was arguably the protagonist of the Black Goku arc.

He deserved to be the one to finish Zamasu

 

It's not what happened, it's how it happened

Preciously.

I'm sure most of us can agree on Trunks being the one to defeat Zamasu, but not like this.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I am gentle as the next guy but I am getting a bit annoyed that I'm being positioned in "You hate it because Trunks took the victory." Why am I placed there? I wanted that myself, but the way it was done was too Shounen, out of nowhere, redundant, thanks to constant "Earth is awesome!" speech in one arc, and it was at the end.

I know it's not new to do asspull but the real problem is that the ending of all previous fights are what you already have and give it all to the very end.

Gohan vs. Cell, ends do or die with the familiar attack and ended with everyone helping in a non-cheesy way. Not to mention, full fledge badass Gohan with that walk.

Goku vs. Buu, once the final saga, doing the spirit bomb that feel like it finally ended with amazing developments from everyone. Man tears was shed.

Here, "Oh what is this? This is new? Ok, I'll be off now with this really newly found power, so bye!" This is Kakashi's Susanoo tier of wtf. I wasn't ready for that. No build or hype. It just did it because welcome to new age of Shounen I guess. I can go on.

[Konohakitten]

I am gentle as the next guy but I am getting a bit annoyed that I'm being positioned in "You hate it because Trunks took the victory." Why am I placed there? I wanted that myself, but the way it was done was too Shounen, out of nowhere, redundant, thanks to constant "Earth is awesome!" speech in one arc, and it was at the end.

I know it's not new to do asspull but the real problem is that the ending of all previous fights are what you already have and give it all to the very end.

Gohan vs. Cell, ends do or die with the familiar attack and ended with everyone helping in a non-cheesy way. Not to mention, full fledge badass Gohan with that walk.

Goku vs. Buu, once the final saga, doing the spirit bomb that feel like it finally ended with amazing developments from everyone. Man tears was shed.

Here, "Oh what is this? This is new? Ok, I'll be off now with this really newly found power, so bye!" This is Kakashi's Susanoo tier of wtf. I wasn't ready for that. No build or hype. It just did it because welcome to new age of Shounen I guess. I can go on.

 

This right here ^ My husband and I watched this last episode with out mouth's opened in shock as a box of asspulls was opened. Now we're avid fans of the entire series, have been since the 90's, but this was a disaster. Before I go into it I have to say that the animation was on point, it was beautiful, but that was the only good thing about this episode. For starters they made Zamatsu way too strong, he essentially became Madera, and instead of defeating him they made him into a Kaguya. They had no way of beating him. Even with a fusion I knew it wouldn't work.Which points me to the problems with Vegito. First off can we just acknowledge the retcon of the fusion only lasting an hour? I mean seriously?! If they were going to add a time limit then they should have gone with Gogita instead. What makes this retcon even worse is that it wasn't even needed. The earrings could have been destroyed, or they could have made a wish to be apart, but of course something needed to happen so that they could fail so that Trunks good save the say with Shounen power.

 

Now if Trunks was supposed to save the day then Vegito should have never come into play. Once Goku couldn't use his arms Trunks should have used his plot power then. Instead we see an unnecessary fusion fail. Now I'm not mad that Trunks was the one to give the final blow, it's fitting because this was his arc, but the way it was done was cheap. It also makes no sense power level wise. Trunks trying to help throughout this whole thing was awesome. I admired him for not giving a crap on how strong these enemies were but him coming to the rescue time and time again without dying or being mortally wounded started getting on my nerves. I let his new level of Super Sayajin slide, but I call kitten the moment he manifested a new blade for his broken sword and then created a spirit bomb that was absorbed into said sword   I seriously thought this was going to end with All-chan interfering but it looks like he makes his appearance afterwards...

Edited by Konohakitten, 14 November 2016 - 04:06 PM.

[Yyubie]

It's just like naruto and sasuke can't finish the job and naruto have to give his power to empower his sons rasengan and boruto is the only one who can finish momoshiki.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's just like naruto and sasuke can't finish the job and naruto have to give his power to empower his sons rasengan and boruto is the only one who can finish momoshiki.

Didn't that happen?

[Phantom_999]

Wow, talk about writing cop out.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Question:

Is it fair to compare this series to DBZ?

[Phantom_999]

It's not really about fairness. I'd would just ask what's the point of it though? It's not a separate series from DBZ, you're ssentially comparing writing quality from then and now.

[Nostradamus]

Question:

Is it fair to compare this series to DBZ?

I say yes, but only until the second movie. Until that moment is had that DBZ essence. After that it lost it, and it did show that a bit that it can bring it back with Trunks's story, but you know what happened.

[Yyubie]

Gohan need to train in hyperbolic chamber for 1 day / 1 year to get into SSJ1, Frieza need 6 months train to achieve his golden form .... and he easy Knockout SSJ Gohan with one hit. Yeah people gonna say Gohan is never train and out of shape  , but still .... Golden Frieza can goes toe to toe with SSJ Blue, so within just 6 months Frieza already surpass SSJ1, SJJ2, and SSJ3 which took Goku about 6 years to master them all. They trying to introduce bigger identity and bigger power so they make all the previous power and villain SOO small and looks really meaningless and worthless , the way they introduce Beerus is clear statement that "Hey even Majin Buu that is feared across galaxy is SOOO small compared to Beerus and SSJ 1-2-3 ?? naahhhh they are boring and outdated, lets introduce something else, we need different pain in hairstyle , lets give them Blue, Red, Yellow, Green .... what else , Pink haired SSJ ??" . I mean really, even the name SON GOKU is taken from SUN WUKONG a legendary APE from asian history, he is known throughout asian, with Pole that can expand as his weapon and a cloud that he can ride as mount, he has GOLDEN hair. So yeah maybe to some people it's not relevant or doesn't have anything to do with ... but i think golden hair is the CORE of Dragon Ball that cannot be removed.

 

I mean if Frieza is THAT GENIUS .... when Goku spare his life when Namek about to explode he should take that chance and train just 6 months he will be even stronger than Kid Buu, or at least after getting half of his body destroyed and turn into Mecha Frieza. So in my opinion clearly the whole DB Super is not planned at all .... is just came out of some gold digger ass who try to milk this series.

 

I like Dragon Ball, i have all their games , so it's painful for me to say this , DBS is clearly starting to go down Naruto path with it's retcon and BS, the way they starting to throw every logic out of the window .....it's really concerning. But at least for NOW the difference is night and day, DBS still way better  especially the art.

[Nostradamus]

Oh 100% DBS was not planned. They saw that DB was still making them money ever after so many years, that they decided to make a new movie to make even more money. Thing is they had no idea it was going to make them that amount of money, it exceeded their expectations.

And once they saw that they just continued with the flow. So for the continuation since they had no idea what to do, they revived an old character for nostalgia purposes and brought him in this new universe. But since that character would stand no chance against the heroes; they gave him a retcon and a substantial power-up.

After that no new ideas anymore, so let's bring back an old character from the past. They showed some promise, but failed to deliver. And just went the fantasy and unrealistic route.

 

Now that this storyline is over, I'm curious to see if they actually are going to think of something new, or just resurrect another old character and ruin what was before even more.

[milan kyuubi]

Now that this storyline is over, I'm curious to see if they actually are going to think of something new, or just resurrect another old character and ruin what was before even more.

 

Wouldn't the new arc be preparing/going to new tournament hosted by Zeno? He is in the preview!

[Konohakitten]

Oh 100% DBS was not planned. They saw that DB was still making them money ever after so many years, that they decided to make a new movie to make even more money. Thing is they had no idea it was going to make them that amount of money, it exceeded their expectations.

And once they saw that they just continued with the flow. So for the continuation since they had no idea what to do, they revived an old character for nostalgia purposes and brought him in this new universe. But since that character would stand no chance against the heroes; they gave him a retcon and a substantial power-up.

After that no new ideas anymore, so let's bring back an old character from the past. They showed some promise, but failed to deliver. And just went the fantasy and unrealistic route.

 

Now that this storyline is over, I'm curious to see if they actually are going to think of something new, or just resurrect another old character and ruin what was before even more.

 

Had they had a few more episodes dedicated to Trunks training with both Goku and Vegeta rather then retconing his power, his glorious power of hope would have been a little more believable. Maybe once Zeno show's up Trunks will get his happy ending and then the story will probably go back to the universal tournament, no?

 

I know Super was far from planned, and it clearly does have issues, but the one thing I do love about it is that it kept the cast of characters close. I love the fact that they call each other on their smart phones, they visit each other often, and Goku asking Gohan if they could stay with him while their home gets repaired melted my nerdy heart. That to me is the core of Dragon Ball, and at the end of Z they shat on it by having Goku ignore everyone for years just to go to a tournament and abandon everyone once again. 

 

I was a hardcore Dragon Ball fan, and it was all about going on adventures together, and with Z we lost that. This is what Super got right. The entire cast is used, and even though the ending of this arc was a retcon sandwich I'll keep watching 

Edited by Konohakitten, 16 November 2016 - 03:48 PM.

[Nostradamus]

 

Wouldn't the new arc be preparing/going to new tournament hosted by Zeno? He is in the preview!

Normally, yes. But let's see.

[ultranx]

 

Had they had a few more episodes dedicated to Trunks training with both Goku and Vegeta rather then retconing his power, his glorious power of hope would have been a little more believable. Maybe once Zeno show's up Trunks will get his happy ending and then the story will probably go back to the universal tournament, no?

 

I know Super was far from planned, and it clearly does have issues, but the one thing I do love about it is that it kept the cast of characters close. I love the fact that they call each other on their smart phones, they visit each other often, and Goku asking Gohan if they could stay with him while their home gets repaired melted my nerdy heart. That to me is the core of Dragon Ball, and at the end of Z they shat on it by having Goku ignore everyone for years just to go to a tournament and abandon everyone once again. 

 

I was a hardcore Dragon Ball fan, and it was all about going on adventures together, and with Z we lost that. This is what Super got right. The entire cast is used, and even though the ending of this arc was a retcon sandwich I'll keep watching 

one problem with you guys and your retcon complaints: the fact that they never explained why they unfused in kid buu in dbz in the first place and the whole magic of ki buu defusing them was all just a theory in the first place, and now that they explain it years after that you guys complain about it being a retcon? super has been answering untold questions of the end of dbz since it started, like the reason goku kept up with uub being he was as strong as ssj3 in his base as of getting super saiyan blue being one of those answers, yet now just because vegito comes into the picture and isn't as powerful as everyone theorized you complain about it being a retcon? come on guys....

Edited by ultranx, 17 November 2016 - 02:59 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's too convenient and rather ruined a lore. I mean it's true that it was ruined in the moment where they wish to separate themselves from a dragon ball, which begged the question, why not do that in the first place. Honestly, it was whatever back then because it was Majin Buu, the former final boss of everything, so it was once Toriyama's way to get them out, now the rules has been changed once again. Hell, Vegetto could have stayed and ask for dragon ball to split. Why not do that?

If anything, Goku could have look at the camera while asking that question, because how flat out it was of him to ask. Not to mention, it ruined the suspense completely. I rather not talk about it again because honestly, there's much more than "Vegetto was shown far too less."

[Konohakitten]

one problem with you guys and your retcon complaints: the fact that they never explained why they unfused in kid buu in dbz in the first place and the whole magic of ki buu defusing them was all just a theory in the first place, and now that they explain it years after that you guys complain about it being a retcon? super has been answering untold questions of the end of dbz since it started, like the reason goku kept up with uub being he was as strong as ssj3 in his base as of getting super saiyan blue being one of those answers, yet now just because vegito comes into the picture and isn't as powerful as everyone theorized you complain about it being a retcon? come on guys....

 

Ummm why do I get the feeling that I'm being singled out here? I mean you quoted one of my posts, but I'm not even talking about the Potara earring retcon in it. It's just a little confusing, but let me clarify on my personal reasons as to why the retcon was BS. It is true that Super can fill in the blanks when it comes to past events, but what they did with the Potara earrings was unnecessary, and like TouKen4Life3g said, it ruined Vegito's lore. The only reason why this time limit retcon happened was because Trunks needed to win. Given I don't think Vegito could have won even if he didn't unfuse but that's not the point. The point is that we were given answers in Z by Old Kai. He flat out told Goku that a fusion with the earrings had no weaknesses and that it was permanent.

 

They even went as far as throwing the gag with the current Supreme Kai of the East willingly fusing with Kabito because he was unaware of it being permanent. He went on to stay fused for the rest of the series and only un-fused in Super because "reasons". So the explanation in Super isn't a very stable one. It contradicts what Old Kai said. Now I do agree that we don't know why Vegito split inside Super Buu. That indeed was never explained. I've heard that it has to do with his magic, or that the inside of his body was another dimension, and that even his stomach acid had an effect on them, but again we'll never know. However claiming that they split because fusion between non Kai's has a time limit is a horrible retcon.

Edited by Konohakitten, 17 November 2016 - 06:03 AM.

[ultranx]

 

Ummm why do I get the feeling that I'm being singled out here? I mean you quoted one of my posts, but I'm not even talking about the Potara earring retcon in it. It's just a little confusing, but let me clarify on my personal reasons as to why the retcon was BS. It is true that Super can fill in the blanks when it comes to past events, but what they did with the Potara earrings was unnecessary, and like TouKen4Life3g said, it ruined Vegito's lore. The only reason why this time limit retcon happened was because Trunks needed to win. Given I don't think Vegito could have won even if he didn't unfuse but that's not the point. The point is that we were given answers in Z by Old Kai. He flat out told Goku that a fusion with the earrings had no weaknesses and that it was permanent.

 

They even went as far as throwing the gag with the current Supreme Kai of the East willingly fusing with Kabito because he was unaware of it being permanent. He went on to stay fused for the rest of the series and only un-fused in Super because "reasons". So the explanation in Super isn't a very stable one. It contradicts what Old Kai said. Now I do agree that we don't know why Vegito split inside Super Buu. That indeed was never explained. I've heard that it has to do with his magic, or that the inside of his body was another dimension, and that even his stomach acid had an effect on them, but again we'll never know. However claiming that they split because fusion between non Kai's has a time limit is a horrible retcon.

1. I was quoting everyone, not just you, 2. my point is, it isn't a retcon because there was never anything to retcon in the first place because it was never confirmed that majin buu was the reason they split, it was left unanswered. also, elder kai was imprisoned in the z sword for years, do you honestly think he really knew anything about the potara other than what they did to him? yet you're gonna believe that just because he said they were permanent that they are?

Edited by ultranx, 17 November 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[Yyubie]

1. I was quoting everyone, not just you, 2. my point is, it isn't a retcon because there was never anything to retcon in the first place because it was never confirmed that majin buu was the reason they split, it was left unanswered. also, elder kai was imprisoned in the z sword for years, do you honestly think he really knew anything about the potara other than what they did to him? yet you're gonna believe that just because he said they were permanent that they are?

I didn't say anything about defusing/unfusing , my only critics about Super is, they abandon the core , power level/rank become a mess , golden frieza and zamas is a joke villain, the color of the aura and the hair although is a minor problem is just felt wrong to me (gold is their core and they change it to blue) , and those 3 little kids that wasted screen time. You use fusion and combine power if you can't defeat your opponent alone ... that is the main reason why you fuse body, but if Trunks can defeat Zamas with god only knows what kind of asspull ... then what's the point of Vegito being there and getting his ass beat??. In my opinion the only reason Vegito should appear is when they were fighting an "IMPOSSIBLE" level of opponent like Whis because that guy is on different dimension (extremely strong). So they want to say not even the strongest power of the protagonist combine is enough to defeat this zamas guy so they all have to pray and hope for miracles which is spirit bomb combine with trunks sword ?? Sounds like Boroqto asspull move to finish Momoshish*t.
 In my opinion they need to create a whole arc explaining what kind of SWORD did trunks have, i mean ... wow that must be some legendary metal there.

Edited by Yyubie, 17 November 2016 - 02:34 PM.

[Konohakitten]

1. I was quoting everyone, not just you, 2. my point is, it isn't a retcon because there was never anything to retcon in the first place because it was never confirmed that majin buu was the reason they split, it was left unanswered. also, elder kai was imprisoned in the z sword for years, do you honestly think he really knew anything about the potara other than what they did to him? yet you're gonna believe that just because he said they were permanent that they are?

 

Then why quote me? Lol!! Anyhow I agreed with you that them splitting up inside Buu was never confirmed, but trying to pull of this whole "Only Kai's stay fused forever" is a load of crap. This kittening explanation for a new "time restraint" is insulting. Sure Old Kai was sealed for years in the Z sword, but does that mean that after those events the secrets of the earrings weren't shared with any of the future Kai's?? The Supreme Kai had no freaking idea that he could fuse with them, let alone that it would be preeminent, but now I'm supposed to accept the fact that Old Kai wrong, and that another Kai from another universe is the one that knows how the Potara earrings REALLY WORK?? How does that makes sense? I'm sorry but if an old mystic Kai appears from a sword and he knows a bunch of stuff isn't it logical to believe that he knows it all? At the time of Z the answer is Yes, his word was final, but Super failed in convincing me that this new explanation was passable. 

 

If they wanted Trunks to win so bad, but still use a fusion for ratings then they should have gone with Gogita. He had a time limit, and he would have been canon had he appeared. Plus I really really really wanted them to perform the fusion dance. Anyhow had they gone this route there would have been no kittening needed to explain why Vegito would split up. They'd have a fusion with a time limit, no retcons, and Trunks could save the day. Why they just didn't do this boggles my mind.  

Edited by Konohakitten, 17 November 2016 - 04:32 PM.