425 replies to this topic

[arian_rad]

Did anyone notice how AMAZING the art of this chapter was? It's been a while since I've seen kishi draw emotion as well as he did in this chapter. You could honestly see the emotion radiating from naruto and obito and most of all Rin.

[六道仙人]

Did anyone notice how AMAZING the art of this chapter was? It's been a while since I've seen kishi draw emotion as well as he did in this chapter. You could honestly see the emotion radiating from naruto and obito and most of all Rin.

yeah, because there were no background in most of panels LOL

[dejavu]

Obito didn't know his parents?
These two were so cute. I love how they were good friends. Lol, Obito trying to act all smooth and kitten, blushing "By helping me, it's like you're saving the world. And to do that... Well... You have to stay at my side and watch over me.. It's like.. You know..." Aww. ;u; it even ties into Itachi's words to Naruto - Obito would have been Hokage because he had Rin by his side, Minato became Hokage because he had Kushina by his side (and all the others), and finally Naruto will become Hokage because he has Sakura by his side.

And then Rin agreeing to watch over him. "It's a promise!" And Obito tearing up... The adorbs in this chapter. The way she acted when telling Obito not to act cool was very similar to the hospital scene where Sakura was healing Naruto's arm after using the Rasenshuriken. Rin wasn't afraid to scold Obito if he was over exerting himself, and she worried about him doing that, like Sakura does (especially in the war). They even share a promise like NS does (Sakura saying next time they'll be together, and POAL in a way). Even the way she was drawn, she looked like Sakura.

 

 

I never thought that he didn't grew with his parents too...considering the Uchiha clan has this mini-village all to themselves. But looking back at it, the way talks "dust got into my eye" while he was wearing goggles do remind me of young Naruto. that's probably how Kishi view boys who did not get to live with their parents.

 

Anyhow, I also like those ObiRin moments. I'm glad that Rin is gentle but could be very firm if needed. no wonder Obito fell for her.

 

Actually these kinds of words are something Sakura should receive more from Naruto. Given that it is similar to the NaruSaku hospital scene after the Hidan-Kakuzo arc.. these kinds of words could lift up Sakura's continuous insecurity of not being useful to Naruto. 

 

 

 

 

I don't think he placed him on the same level as Rin, it's just the closest thing he has to her at the moment.

 

agree.
simply this. no need to imply anything else.

 

 

This chapter wasn't that bad even if didn't get to see Sakura..

I like some parts of it, although i'm not totally convinced with Naruto's way of talking

but the ObiRin moments are heartwarming.

 

and NO..I don't really see this chapter as something to help NaruSaku nor NaruHina

It is still the same setup. Obito likes RIN.

I'd like to play it safe.

 

Because i don't really mind if the ObiRin and NaruSaku parallel will happen..or rather, if its not DIRECTLY implied (actually the start of Kakashi Gaiden, it was already an obvious team 7 parallel.. but oh well..)

 

ObiRin as heartwarming as it is, did not make it. So as an NaruSaku fan i wouldn't really rely so much to that. granted that most probably NS would be able to succeed the three other pairings (JirTsu, ObiRin, MinaKushi)) that is shown as similar to them. With Naruto being able to save his friend and be able to "free" himself from the guilt and be able to get the girl without the "i don't deserve her" feeling, next is Naruto being able to make the ninja world peaceful and united as to not endanger his loved ones, and lastly both of them surviving and be able to raise their own child

 

What will we get anyway with NS and OR parallel? not that i mind it happening. sure, it would make me smile as i can have another thing going on for my fave pairing but other than that is just confirmation or rather and in-your-face retort to NH that yes, Naruto is still and would forever be in love with Sakura and not with someone else. again, i'm just saying that its no biggie if Kishi won't directly show the parallel (not really though) but it would be a nice addition, like a complimentary thing but more importantly NaruSaku doesn't need it.

 

 

Anyhow...not to offend anyone but, Rin's line this chapter: "I am watching you" did remind me of Hinata!

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

"I am watching you"

 

if you know what i mean.
sorry.. the Halloween vibe is getting into me nowadays

Edited by hello panda, 29 October 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[Hanabi]

^what a heart throbbing innocent love.. 

 

Did anyone notice how AMAZING the art of this chapter was? It's been a while since I've seen kishi draw emotion as well as he did in this chapter. You could honestly see the emotion radiating from naruto and obito and most of all Rin.

now that u said it. yeah  rin's face is so cute.

Edited by Hanabi, 29 October 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[arian_rad]

yeah, because there were no background in most of panels LOL

Idk I guess that could be a reason why he paid more attention to the emotion on the character's faces but overall I just personally really liked it

[六道仙人]

@hello panda

 

omg, you cannot compare Rin to Hinata xD

[Inferno180]

It's best to say like any other parallel, narusaku to obirin has not yet been established,

But like Sakura to Kushina, there is already a great amount of stuff hinting and showcasing similarities.

In this case:

Team 7 and minato had a similar love dynamic setup, even by talent obito was the unskilled one, loved the medic girl who loved the talented uncaring guy.

Rin learned of obitos love too late, sakura learned of narutos yet it caused her a lot of pain. In that one moment with rin at the end of the gaidan, you would have to wonder what went on in her head after obitos "death"

Sakura and rin are Both medical ninja who are talented at it.

Team minatos fate was the inverse for each member on team 7. Kakashi is the only one who ironically became better before obitos corruption. Like Sasuke, Kakashi represents what Sasuke could have ideally become like if he stayed in the village, as said before Kakashi knows how Sasuke acts as he used to be like that. As stated many times, obito is the opposite of naruto being everything bad naruto could have become if he gave into hate or dispar. There is plenty of stuff to argue with naruto and Kakashi being alike as Sasuke and obito too, but it's much more emphasized obito and Kakashi represent the opposite of what naruto and Sasuke could have become, naruto was good though and Sasuke followed a dark path, only difference with Sasuke, he has time to come back from his dark path. Well the naruto vs Sasuke fight will resolve this cycle, kinda emphasized with the old senju uchiha rivalry. As for sakura well hers is a special case as compared to rin I mean, well rin died on her own will. Obviously it will involve sakura living in the end but as. For this inverse fate, Sakura's is much brighter with naruto and Sasuke compared to rin dying, obito going evil, and Kakashi losing his friends.

It helps to mention the similarity in the scenes in which naruto is with sai and is asked about how he feels about sakura as with the scene recently with obito seeing rin go away with Kakashi and minato asked him if he liked rin and said the same thing as sai, telling him he should say how he felt. That was a highly similar scene kinda like the narusaku and minakush rescue.

It's very possible for the parallel to be established soon, the similar evidence has been show, it just would mean more reinforcement on a possible narusaku ending if the Kushina foreshadow stuff was already any indicator. Not that ns needs parallels, but they just show where Kishi may be going. Ns has the development and that's what's important.

[Nate River]

The TnJ...

The ethical conflict resumes. Tobi just admitted that he was personally challenging Naruto to see if he would abandon his "nindo". It's ironic how Naruto argues that there is no "shortcuts" to becoming Hokage, yet all of the individuals that have obtained the position were somehow connected to the Senju or those who basked in their philosophy. The position of Hokage is attained through democratic selection. Almost all of the population seems to be highly supportive of the Senju. Meaning that to actually procure the position, you would need to embrace the mentality and beliefs of said clan.

 

That aside, the imposing context which Naruto began to address Tobi in at the end of the chapter irked me. He's beginning to speak as if his mantra is the only one that can see true prosperity or happiness. Naruto comes across almost similarly to how Tobi was decreeing his rhetoric about everyone coming to resent the world through tragedy. Tobi may have subconscious misgivings about the path he chose, but Naruto's imposition that he simply abandon everything and accept "who he truly he is" comes across as dogmatic almost. It disregards everything that he's done up until that point. The people who he's hurt and influenced, the crimes he's committed against all of the nations, the sentiments everyone may have to this conversion and this man simply returning to the ranks after he spearheaded the deaths of over 40,000 men and women throughout this war which he is personally responsible for. 

 

Interestingly enough, no Rin/Sakura parallel was confirmed this chapter.

 I admit it bothers me too.

 

It's what makes it so hard to feel for Obito. He's been so willing to stomp on the lives of so many people who had nothing to do with his personal tragedy that I cannot bring myself to begin to care about his personal tragedy. I've always thought his grudge against Minato was especially petty.

 

At the moment, I don't think Obito accepts. At best, if he does, then he dies trying to undo the damage. If he goes this route, I am hoping it's limited to only stopping Moon Eye's. It would be an ugly bit of writing to make it Pain Part 2. Like Pain, it's too complicated for a redeemed Obito to live (not technically speaking, but it requires massive hand waiving to accomplish). But like with Pain, it feels like Naruto is again going to stand in for all victims and make the decision on this guy's fate despite the fact that he isn't the only one wronged and in a more realistic setting probably would express outrage at what he's seeking to do. 

 

It'd be one thing if Naruto is speaking to him in a way one might try to talk down a hostage taker...whatever you need to say to get them to release hostage, but I think Naruto is totally serious. Naruto doesn't specify what consequences he means. If Obito stands down and comes back...then what? Of course, I don't think it's a problem Naruto has to worry about and why Obito is ultimately doomed. It won't matter and the long term problem with the approach will get ignored again.

 

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but Obito just told him, He killed his friends to test his nindo...and Naruto seems less pissed about that than the fact that Obito continues to deny his own identity. Of course, we've already traveled this path when Neji died, I don't know why I should expect Naruto to spend any time with that than he did the first time. 

 

This conversation would sit better if I could bleach my brain of the surrounding context. It's fine in isolation, but when placed into what Obito has done, as you said, it's hard to stomach.

 

I'm trying to imagine Neji's Grave Marker:

 

Hyuuga, Neji

Background character and NH plot device

"I was killed to prove a point and nobody cared."

[James S Cassidy]

Wait....wait wait wait....

 

So the NH fans (or should I say really Hinata fans) say to us that parallels mean crap and that we use them too much are now saying that NH is canon because ObiRin is a supposed parallel? Why am I not surprised?

 

Regardless, it's interesting to see Rin be so supportive of Obito and his dream. It reminds me of Part 1 Sakura who, even though at the time, didn't love Naruto was still supportive of his dream. Who knows, maybe ObiRin could have happened if events didn't play out like they did. It is not certain, but anything is possible. I think this is why ObiRin feels like a NS parallel.

 

-Rin supported Obito's dream like Sakura supported Naruto's

-Rin cared about Obito even if she picked on him like Sakura did to Naruto.

-Rin was a medic-ninja like Sakura was

-Rin loved a guy who didn't love her like Sakura and Sasuke (Though Kakashi never purposely tried to kill Rin.)

 

Sure, we had Hinata "support" Naruto too, but I never really believed she supported his dream. She just supported his never-give-up nindo and wanted to stay by Naruto's side for her own sake. Sakura on the other hand wanted to see Naruto succeed and supported not only his dream, but his efforts. Hand-holding...I am not even going to bring this one up because I could argue Naruto just held Hinata's hand to distribute chakra.

 

It's nice to see more of who Rin was and even though this chapter and probably the next few are just TnJ, I think I like it this way. Sure, most of the TnJ was boring, but I think this is one where it actually is done right. A TnJ that actually serves a huge purpose beyond than just talking the villain out of his ways. You know what I mean? It isn't a gratuitous TnJ, but a well placed, well executed TnJ.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[Chatte]

I agree with you James, it's actually the very first TNJ chapter I enjoy...

[Nate River]

Wait....wait wait wait....

 

So the NH fans (or should I say really Hinata fans) say to us that parallels mean crap and that we use them too much are now saying that NH is canon because ObiRin is a supposed parallel? Why am I not surprised?

 

Regardless, it's interesting to see Rin be so supportive of Obito and his dream. It reminds me of Part 1 Sakura who, even though at the time, didn't love Naruto was still supportive of his dream. Who knows, maybe ObiRin could have happened if events didn't play out like they did. It is not certain, but anything is possible. I think this is why ObiRin feels like a NS parallel.

 

-Rin supported Obito's dream like Sakura supported Naruto's

-Rin cared about Obito even if she picked on him like Sakura did to Naruto.

-Rin was a medic-ninja like Sakura was

-Rin loved a guy who didn't love her like Sakura and Sasuke (Though Kakashi never purposely tried to kill Rin.)

 

Sure, we had Hinata "support" Naruto too, but I never really believed she supported his dream. She just supported his never-give-up nindo and wanted to stay by Naruto's side for her own sake. Sakura on the other hand wanted to see Naruto succeed and supported not only his dream, but his efforts. Hand-holding...I am not even going to bring this one up because I could argue Naruto just held Hinata's hand to distribute chakra.

 

It's nice to see more of who Rin was and even though this chapter and probably the next few are just TnJ, I think I like it this way. Sure, most of the TnJ was boring, but I think this is one where it actually is done right. A TnJ that actually serves a huge purpose beyond than just talking the villain out of his ways. You know what I mean? It isn't a gratuitous TnJ, but a well placed, well executed TnJ.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

 

Kishimoto has generally been vary blatant in his character parallel's, so my adage is that the harder I have to squint to see the connection the less likely it that any connection was intended. And I have to squint pretty hard for the NH.

 

I also agree with the other posts, that the scene as a whole thing reminds of Sakura during the Chunnin exams and at the end of Part 1.  I think it's more meaningful than the specific words chosen to express the idea given the basic ideas that surround Naruto and Obito's characters. It's easy enough to read the other way.

[咲耶姫]

Just thought about it, but if Obito does redeemed himself after that, what made him change his mind? 'cause really, Naruto didn't do anything spacial this chapter, he simply states what Obito already knew, Naruto and him are alike. So don't you think that Naruto will have to do more in order to save Obito?

 

And really, I don't even want to listen what NH fans have to say about this chapter. They are desperate and delusional. Hinata is not and never will be parallel to anyone, and I explained why in the debate thread. She's just a minor character, one of Naruto's friends, he never ever showed anything beside friendship towards her. That's why I don't understand how sooo many people can see something betwen Naruto and Hinata. Sometimes, it makes me wonder if I read the same manga or if I'm not the one who has sanity problems. 

 

But in this chapter, Rin was clearly paralleled to Sakura in the healing scene. There was a similar scene with NS and the fact that Rin supports Obito's dream was emphased just like Sakura is the character that support the more Naruto's dream. 

[Kster95]

Lol Rin page 17 totally making the same pose as Sakura and Kushina.

[六道仙人]

Lol Rin page 17 totally making the same pose as Sakura and Kushina.

 

are you joking, true? It's pretty obvious that she's like Hinata in that momento. Don't be so denial.

[咲耶姫]

Lol Rin page 17 totally making the same pose as Sakura and Kushina.

 

Yes I noted too at first read. She's as cheerful as Sakura when it comes to her baka teamate. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, change of plan. Time to talk. I should address some points. This is my opinion so don't worry, everyone has their own opinion and I would like to express mine.

 

Should we feel sympathy for Obito?

 

This chapter is not about making us feel bad for him, though if some of us do, then that's ok. The main point is to established that Naruto's path is and has always been the right path but it sickens Naruto that Obito and him are very similar yet Obito went to a different path, a path that Naruto would oppose. Not just the idea of illusion world, but the idea of taking it shortcuts. In the later event, Naruto was trying to prove that Obito still have himself buried inside but it does occur once in a while, especially controlling Juubi. Remember, this TnJ left in a cliffhanger, rather than how Nagato answered him in the end of the chapter, so we either continue the talk or we will get the answer immediately. I believe the sympathy card could play towards his end of his life. This one is about the path to Hokage and himself being buried because of his newfound path that led nothing but destruction to millions.

 

 

The point of last two pages

 

This chapter is about Obito and him alone. Naruto is the one that's pretty much like a therapist. While he compares him to himself, it's not that Naruto was drawing a comparison, rather addressing it because it was bothering him that Obito is no different than him, as well as feeling like fighting his opposite. That's the last time he compared because he needs to tell him the reason why he doesn't quit. I can see why Obito changed easily because according to the flashback, the war was ongoing and pretty much effected him a lot. Naruto is more effected of how ninja are being used (Haku). They are similar, but you can argue Obito was going to complicated task too early. Naruto became a peace maker in part 2, not really in the start, so he was quickly developed this outlook, which is why Madara convinced him easily. When Rin died, pretty much the world is telling him that the world will always have a dark reality. Madara is in the same boat (unless said otherwise), because he learned that you can be one guy that changed the tide of war, but violence will eventually come back. Man, a lot of peace talk lately, even in Korra has this.

 

So, that all said even though it's cruel and dark, you have to deal with it and it sucks, I know, but it's just life. Obito pretty much ran away from everything he was building on and who knows, maybe he would have become a Hokage. But now, the path is pretty much destroyed and the only thing he can do is the moon eye plan. Naruto wants him to be back to his old self and well, we'll see what can go from there on. That said the point of mini-flashback is not about drawing the connection, rather drawing the connection to his last words: running away. The main points are:

 

1) Naruto finds that going to another world would be running away from your reality. Obito's dialogue was inputted because it was about the longer he stays, the closer that he would be entirely alone. But why bare with it, when he can just join Obito, right? After all, that's Obito's path. If the dialogue wasn't inputted, then the scene would be entirely different. Here's the thing, if Naruto was only effected by Neji, he would have said something, right? This message was about how the idea of joining another world is running away from life.

 

2) The fact that Naruto already turned down the offer from Obito means he is never going to join him running away. So, now it's Obito to decide if he wants to join Naruto in returning to reality. It's a switch moment that usually happens in a story where one character ask to join but declined, only to do one in return. Obito did his, but now, he's the victim.

 

Well, I should review before I leave. 4 more chapters left in the volume.

[Chatte]

 

Yes I noted too at first read. She's as cheerful as Sakura when it comes to her baka teamate. 

But allow me to..

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't help myself today...

[TouKen4Life3g]

But allow me to..

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't help myself today...

That damn smile. I will take one year of life off me to see that smile. Well, if I was them. But really, nice work.

[Kster95]

are you joking, true? It's pretty obvious that she's like Hinata in that momento. Don't be so denial.

No I am serious look at chatte's pic. Rin is doing that arm thing that Sakura and Kushina did.

[六道仙人]

sorry, I was ironic xD