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#141 Codus N

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

It's shown on previous chapters that this doesnt matter, Obito said it very well (If Naruto doesnt redeem Sasuke or save him the war is meaningless some bullsh** kishi did but he literally says that the victory here is meaningless if Sasuke is not saved)
Sakura it's not part of this whole (peace dream) because she never lose anyone who's close to her neither was part of the whole hatred thing, as for Naruto the peace is his secondary achievement, the whole story and the main plot is literally Naruto vs Sasuke and how the world plays around it with even the peace thing is also involved into this Naruto x Sasuke like if Naruto fails on redeeming Sasuke the world will never find peace even if hye manage to unite the 5 nations together it's bs but it's kishi's writing, and Sakura is part of this whole Naruto x Sasuke which is the main plot.

This war is more about Naruto's friends and shinobi in general rather than Naruto himself.

 

 

About Sakura filling Naruto's weakness depends on whioch interpretation it gets, but was more the inverse, Naruto was able to fill up Sakura's weakness when Sasuke departed by giving her a purpose and not allowing her to give up on the shinobi which later she went to train with Tsunade(he pretty much filled the hole that was on her heart [ i see what you did there]) and her desire was to return what Naruto did to her, which obviously developed into love because she thought she had lose everything when Sasuke departed, about the other way, the story it's not finished and since Naruto x Sasuke is the main plot her helping Naruto there somehow makes her up to this.

Which kishi literally spoilled it on the color cover and how the way the story is going to.

 

That's exactly it. If the plot was going to be like this, then making Sakura a normal girl with scant background was a bad idea from the start. Chalk one up for Kishi's lack of planning again.

 

You're right about the second part. But the way I see it, now that Naruto has done that for Sakura, when can we see it from Sakura-->Naruto?? 

 

 

This was another 'meh' chapter to me.  My opinion is very much similar to Morgaine's - I found the chapter a bit laughable in places, and am used to the story's level of quality at this point.

 

I'm surprised that anyone would suggest Hinata was portrayed in a more important light or role in this chapter - she was completely relegated to the background, as part of the crowd.  We didn't even see her in the full cloak like others, and she didn't get a single line of thought or dialogue (unlike Sakura, who at least got two prominent panels and a line of thought).

 

I'm inclined to believe those who believe Sakura was excluded from the group attack for a reason - she is not on the same level as the K11 to Naruto in terms of what she represents.  Just as Rin is separated from the rest of Obito's friends in terms of what she means to him, so too is Sakura for Naruto.  Granted I could be wrong, and Kishi really did just relegate Sakura to background healing because he couldn't fit everyone into the tails, but I think its less likely than the former theory.

 

And yes, she's doing an important task in healing the alliance who is currently battling the tree still, but its still a bit disappointing for the heroine to be relegated to a non-action position doing the same thing she has been doing for the majority of the war, especially when Tsunade is there to pick up the slack as well.

 

By the way, did anyone notice that Sakura and Tsunade's seal went back to its normal state?  Do they not need to keep it released for their healing to work?

 

It was interesting to see Obito's thoughts of what could have been - as others have mentioned, it seems likely that Naruto will now be put in Obito's shoes and experience what it was like to loose his "Rin."

 

I wonder if Sakura is actually going to get injured, or if Naruto will just have similar thoughts of what could have been (if this is the route he goes, I would imagine that he would think of not getting there on time to save Sakura from Sasuke's attack at the summit).

 

@ Codus:  I have to ask, if you're so unhappy with the story, then why do you continue to read it?  I can understand wanting to see how it all turns out in the end, but you could just as easily wait until the story is actually done to see that, or at least wait and read chapters in chunks.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that you don't have a right to voice your opinion here, but I know I wouldn't bother reading if I was that frustrated and/or unhappy with the material.  I agree the manga has definitely declined in quality overall, in regard to what it once was and in comparison to some other mangakas, but we've all known this for a while now.  I don't let it bother me because I know what to expect each week.  Personally, I think Kishi is burned out on this story, and didn't plan it out well enough.  As he said in a recent interview, he only has an ending in mind, not the stuff in between, and he's just creating the story on the fly to get to that ending.

 

As to your questions:

 

Have Sakura and Naruto displayed trust in one another?:  Yes, I think they have.  Perhaps not to the same level as Winry and Ed, but there have been moments that showed it.  I think the end of chapter 631 is the moment that comes first to mind, as does Sakura's speech in 630 where she is speaking for Naruto, clarifying his intent to the alliance.  Sakura showed trust in Naruto when she told him about Sasuke's curse seal, when she asked him to bring back Sasuke, and when she called out for him during the Pein invasion.  Naruto showed trust in Sakura when he specifically told her Kurama was sealed in him, when she initially held Naruto back from interfering in Chiyo's jutsu to save Gaara, and when he told her that he would be fine as long as he had her to heal him and that her support in the quest to retrieve Sasuke made him happy.

 

I'm sure there are more instances, but those are the ones I can recall off the top of my head.

 

How has Sakura contributed to Naruto's endeavor of breaking the cycle of hatred/uniting the 5 nations?:  Specifically, the closest I can think of is by giving the speech in 628 where she spoke on Naruto's behalf to the alliance, and motivated them to fight.  In general, she has almost always supported Naruto and his actions (e.g. when the rookies were lambasting him for letting Sasuke go at the summit, it was Sakura who jumped in to defend his actions to them, and when Naruto said he would work with Sai even if he hated him in order to save Sasuke, Sakura concurred and held back on attacking Sai as she said earlier she would) and Naruto too has normally followed if Sakura takes a course of action (e.g. when Sakura said that she was going to talk to Danzo after hearing the death sentence on Sasuke's head, Naruto agreed to go as well, and if Sakura tells him to calm down and listen, he normally does as well - we saw this most prominently in the Sai and Sasuke arc).

 

Honestly, my main problem is how some people seem to overglorify Sakura. Your answers are quite good, to be honest. And sometimes, I do like being proven wrong (in a non-condescending way). All your answers are the kind of answers I've been trying to lure out (which is why I post here in the hopes someone like you comes out). 

 

Yes, there have been moments of them placing their trust in each other. But it feels so miniscule thanks to Naruto always trying to be a one-man show which leaves Sakura hanging around the kitchen. There needs to be a moment when Naruto is at his most vulnerable and shows his weakness, and that he needs her to overcome that weakness (615 gives me the urge to puke everytime I remember it).

 

628 was a good moment for her, but it's still lacking something. What she needs to be shown doing is something only she can accomplish that Naruto can't. I certainly would like to see her take on a leadership role if Naruto and Shikamaru are unavailable. Which reminds me of a US First Lady that effectively governed over the US for a short moment (a month, if I'm right) while her husband was sick.

 

Another thing, her words ended up to be a tempting fate moment. Way to kick her around, Kishi. It felt like Kishi was trying to diminish her efforts. 

 

My final words for you is that you are basically the kind of person who sees Sakura's relevancy in the story for what it is. Yes, there have been moments like the above, but the silver lining is that (which I think we can agree upon) there is a lack consistency and effort to make the moments significant enough.  

 

You can't deny Kishi failed in this regard. Even if Kishi wraps it up, the lack of consistency concerning their relationship would leave much greatly to be desired. In the end, I'd give him a D+ in characterization when this series is over.


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The family that couldn't be.

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#142 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:36 PM

Sorry. He wasn't that happy cause Rin's incident has affected him, but he's still shown happy with his friends when the panels of his friends and him seeing them. But, if he wouldn't thought the way he thinks now, he would be having a good life with his friends around him and be successful. All of this, he would be still in the right track and there will still be happiness for him if he didn't thought wrong after Rin's incident and Madara didn't brainwash him.

No need to apologize  :smile:

 

I think I interpreted his imagination as not being happy because he didn't even smile when he accomplished his dream as a Hokage. I would have expected him to give that huge grin of his when wearing that hat. It looked to me that he didn't look completely fulfilled even though he achieved his dream. 


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#143 Luna

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:36 PM

 

That's exactly it. If the plot was going to be like this, then making Sakura a normal girl with scant background was a bad idea from the start. Chalk one up for Kishi's lack of planning again.

 

You're right about the second part. But the way I see it, now that Naruto has done that for Sakura, when can we see it from Sakura-->Naruto?? 

 

 

 

Honestly, my main problem is how some people seem to overglorify Sakura. Your answers are quite good, to be honest. And sometimes, I do like being proven wrong (in a non-condescending way). All your answers are the kind of answers I've been trying to lure out (which is why I post here in the hopes someone like you comes out). 

 

Yes, there have been moments of them placing their trust in each other. But it feels so miniscule thanks to Naruto always trying to be a one-man show which leaves Sakura hanging around the kitchen. There needs to be a moment when Naruto is at his most vulnerable and shows his weakness, and that he needs her to overcome that weakness (615 gives me the urge to puke everytime I remember it).

 

628 was a good moment for her, but it's still lacking something. What she needs to be shown doing is something only she can accomplish that Naruto can't. I certainly would like to see her take on a leadership role if Naruto and Shikamaru are unavailable. Which reminds me of a US First Lady that effectively governed over the US for a short moment (a month, if I'm right) while her husband was sick.

 

Another thing, her words ended up to be a tempting fate moment. Way to kick her around, Kishi. It felt like Kishi was trying to diminish her efforts. 

 

My final words for you is that you are basically the kind of person who sees Sakura's relevancy in the story for what it is. Yes, there have been moments like the above, but the silver lining is that (which I think we can agree upon) there is a lack consistency and effort to make the moments significant enough.  

 

You can't deny Kishi failed in this regard. Even if Kishi wraps it up, the lack of consistency concerning their relationship would leave much greatly to be desired. In the end, I'd give him a D+ in characterization when this series is over.

Bolded:Sakura will do to for Naruto  when she actually shows she loves him. Also if you think about it she already partly filled that part because whenever Naruto think backs about the first people to acknowledge him Sakura was there in those flashbacks. The only thing left for Sakura to do is love Naruto and give her undying support.



 


#144 DattebayoXShannaro

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:41 PM

I really liked this chapter, though my prediction about the combo failing was proved wrong.  I don't know.  Was the sword and shield the attack form Obito talked about?  And who's to say Obito can't regenerate from this.  He is the ten tails jinchuuriki, though this attack would most likely weaken him, enough for Madara to come in.  I am all the more excited for next chapter because I can't even begin to guess what happens next.  Despite the way things look, it isn't over. As I said before, Madara has his opportunity to take control of things.  The Shinju is still standing, and we yet to hear a solution of how to remove the other Bijuus.  I can't begin to make guesses since the chapter left on a cliffhanger.  No doubt what comes next will have the rest of the focus for the volume.

 

I liked how Kakashi could see through Obito's eye.  It parallels to the time when Obito could see through the eye he gave Kakashi when Rin died.  Now, Kakashi knows that Sasuke is with Naruto, and who knows how he'll react to it.  Also, as everyone probably already mentioned the team up of the rookies plus Sai (minus Neji and Sakura), as much as you can call it cheesey, it proved the point it was trying to make as to what Kakashi was saying earlier to Obito about how friends can fill the hole in a person's heart.  I'm glad Sakura wasn't included.  To me, it means Kishimoto has something reserved for her.  Anyway, loved the chapter. I can't wait for next week.

 

Hold on:
 

651

 

I know that game!  I understand it looks similar to Toma's, but I think Kishimoto designed it represent DNA as someone else mentioned.  I'm sure it's just a coincidence.


Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 16 October 2013 - 04:44 PM.


#145 T XD

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:42 PM

No need to apologize  :smile:

 

I think I interpreted his imagination as not being happy because he didn't even smile when he accomplished his dream as a Hokage. I would have expected him to give that huge grin of his when wearing that hat. It looked to me that he didn't look completely fulfilled even though he achieved his dream. 

Yeah, no grin cause of Rin. Rin is the main issue.


Edited by T XD, 16 October 2013 - 04:49 PM.


#146 alphabet

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:49 PM

1. LEEEEEE!!!! Ohhhh, my baby, look what you're doing <3

 

2. Nice, Kishi, nice. Keeping Sakura away from the group power-up, reinforcing that she IS Naruto and Sasuke's equal. Those three - ALL THREE - are now absolutely confirmed to be disconnected from the rest of their age group. YES YES YES YEYSSSSSSSSSSSYES YES YESS YEEEEESSSS

 

3. Sakura/Rin parallel coming up, like, next chapter? Hmm? Hm? EDIT: This makes me nervous, though. I have an iffy feeling that this parallel is going to be some sort of sacrifice from Sakura for Naruto, just to drive the Sakura/Kushina/Rin point home, especially since tomorrow is the anniversary of Kushi/Rin's death. I don't think that she'll stay harmed, but it'll harken back to her "I can only do the slightest of things for Naruto" insecurities, I reckon. 


Edited by alphabet, 16 October 2013 - 04:52 PM.

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#147 T XD

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:51 PM

No chapter next week ?



#148 Deej

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:52 PM

I believe people are overanalyzing Sakura not being a part of the attack. On both sides. I don't think she was left out because Kishi hates her or because she is put on a pedestal compared to Naruto's friends. There are 9 tails. With Neji dead, that perfectly lines up with Shika, Ino, Choji, Hinata, Shino, Kiba, Sai, Lee, and Tenten. Sakura was busy with something else, so Naruto would of known not to call her. Sakura's face was still shown with all the others, including Naruto and Sasuke. So symbolically she was there as opposed to say a Gaara, Killer Bee, or Temari.

Would it have been cool to see Sakura in a kyuubi cloak and using the rasengan to help Naruto? Hell yeah, but I'm over it.

#149 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:06 PM

again proud that Kishimoto didn't make Sakura one of Naruto's kittenies as he did with K11.

Lol ouch. But you know what, you're right.

 

Me too :)

 

It showed me that he knows she's strong and her role after all so he doesnt need to give her a powerup and neither a rasengan for her to do something.

That's good to know.

 

Yeah... that K11 attack with rasengan was really a joke but since the subject of this chapter was the friendship I guess that Kishimoto had to find a way to put it out... It wasn't a great result anyway..

 

Why Kakashi is still in Kamui world lol?

Yeah, that's the whole point though. It's like bringing the message across. Don't know if it's the right way to do it, but since Obito asked for it, guess that's one way to address it.

 

before the comradeship, now the friendship... I see here what Kishi is doing...

Well, you get it. :happy:

 

i think as soon as obito fall, madara will fall too.

i don't know but i see a starwars episode 6 when darthvader getting tnj by luke.

 

@六道仙人

of course ^^

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

 

Now we know why Neji died. Kurama just dont have enough tails, if he had ten of them Neji would be safe and sound.

 

Even though it didnt make sense for Naruto (other than plot purposes) to involve K9, since he could just use his clones, the chapter was nice. I loved PS/Kurama fusion.

You know....that's true. Lol. Not the ten tails part but the fact having him dead can lined-up Sai easily in this scenario

 

Well, it's possible that Naruto is almost out of chakra and using clones in that state supposedly takes a lot. So he asked his friends who has his chakra to take in and then change them to make the push possible. That's why Lee didn't understand if he can do it, but Naruto is the one to grant him with his power. It's like Goku passing down spirit bomb to Krillin and he doesn't know how to it.

 

*Ahem* Guys I think some if us are getting the wrong idea here. The K11 are not Naruto's tools or minions, they're this friends that represent the bonds that Obito cut off himself. Why wasn't Sakura there? Well for one, she's busy helping Tsunade support the rest of the alliance with Katsuyu for one, and I don't hear many mentioning that. That is just as important a role as many have kept arguing for, but seem to have forgotten.  :mellow: Second, I recall Kurama having only nine Tails, so even if Sakura was in it he'd have to kick someone else out, and that someone clearly has would not have use for something else. Even Ino is not as potent a healer as Sakura if it is hyped that she will surpass Tsunade right? YES, we will hear NH fans ranting about how Hinata must be more important than Sakura to Naruto for being in the attack,but they are just clearly finding the slightest infraction for their ship to work even if there is nothing. And helping someone with an attack doesn't guarantee that you will run off into the sunset with them like some no-brainer love story.  :ermm: And have some have said that may hint at Sakura helping in the field directly too and she may not need a power up. Remember she was the one who wiped out most if not all the Juubi clones. :yes:   

Well, we were joking around about the tools and all. We know it's about friends, but that's the point, it's about friends. Nothing wrong with that but we can somewhat laugh that one character who shall not named is in friendzoned category. Hell, I give up on that, so I don't even care for it anymore. Anyway, the point is that these characters represents the unity of his friends and how they will have his back even IF the love interest dies. When Obito went to a new world, Rin died, but he won't be alone. Sure, his love chapter is forever closed, but at least his friends would support him. So now, this is the main question: can he accept that?

 

Kind of a strange chapter, and I believe next week will be delayed, due to the typhoon.

 

So the rookie 9 are Naruto's tails....wasn't that implied through the very beginning of the manga, you know...like the pilot? Also Naruto created the rasengans way before the rookies entered it, so no they do not have rasengans. He seems he just needed someone to push them, and Kishi needed them to do something.

Yeah, pretty much. He can't really do clones for possible reasons like low on chakra, not easy to do all 9 clones as BM, and his friends does his chakra, so pretty much give them one last hurrah's. If the attack didn't knock him dead (not literally), well this is awkward.

 

Naruto looks like he lacks an objective too. "Not Giving Up" is not really an objective. Do you think Obito might be frustrated with Naruto's lack of answers? 

 

I don't mean about the present. I mean about the imagination. He doesn't look happy in his own imagination which is supposed to be a 'good life'. Which leads me to believe that, even if he continued that path it won't be 'good' enough for him. But that's only how I felt reading that scene. 

Yeah, that's why Obito didn't really connect him and feels frustrated. Now, maybe whatever happened could start. I don't know why he thought of it as soon as a collision happened in the chapter. We see a blur image of Naruto and Obito in one panel at the same time. I don't know why it happened, but hopefully there's a reason for it in the next chapter.

 

Actually, that could be possible. The thing is that Obito must ask himself, "Wouldn't this be good enough?" So, if he gives up, then yeah, he thought it would have good right there, but that's throwing Rin away, which is not easy to accept. I had to reread the older chapters and find it challenging for him to accept the world without Rin because she was really everything to him. He disillusioned himself to believe Rin is still alive. Put it this way, if Obito continues to fight, then friendship talk, which is complete here, didn't work, which means you guessed it, Rin's aspect MUST be dealt with. It all relies on him on Rin now, or people would like to call it, The Will of Rin.

 

You know, the funny thing is that it's been a while for Obito to think of Rin, so maybe Kishi purposely have him not thinking of her so it will catch us off-guard. Again, this all depends on Rin now. If Obito still fights, then it must be done. I'm not sure how it will happen, but it has to be done. This is the only part that doesn't get tackled. What could be said to Obito? I don't know but maybe either accepting the fate of her choice or something? I want to know if Naruto has cover that, because that is something I look forward in writing. It's not easy as I would have thought. A week wait begins.



#150 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:09 PM

I believe people are overanalyzing Sakura not being a part of the attack. On both sides. I don't think she was left out because Kishi hates her or because she is put on a pedestal compared to Naruto's friends. There are 9 tails. With Neji dead, that perfectly lines up with Shika, Ino, Choji, Hinata, Shino, Kiba, Sai, Lee, and Tenten. Sakura was busy with something else, so Naruto would of known not to call her. Sakura's face was still shown with all the others, including Naruto and Sasuke. So symbolically she was there as opposed to say a Gaara, Killer Bee, or Temari.

Would it have been cool to see Sakura in a kyuubi cloak and using the rasengan to help Naruto? Hell yeah, but I'm over it.

I respect that because Sakura has her hand full, so Naruto won't force her or anything. Always think logical. Also, when you get down to it, these K9 don't really have anything to do, so why not use a symbol of friendship.



#151 Lid

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:24 PM

Naruto chap on the lunch break, what a treat.

First thought after reading the chapter was the phrase "Join the club, we have jackets."

 

As for the story itself, not the happiest that Sakura is left out of the final super attack thingy, but at the same time, it's understandable. Also, I have a feeling Obito is getting close to the "road of redemption," which I had been predicting since the mask came off and he started showing his ugly mug.


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#152 sushi.

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:30 PM

I respect that because Sakura has her hand full, so Naruto won't force her or anything. Always think logical. Also, when you get down to it, these K9 don't really have anything to do, so why not use a symbol of friendship.

Symbols are in my opinion Kishi's second most used literary device(after you know what ----yess parallels XD), so I think Sakura was left out because she is more than a friend to Naruto. It just seems like something Kishi would write, okay? :P

 

I also am disappointed that Sakura is sidelined again, but this is something that has been going on for a while. I don't want think Kishi just threw a bone in 632. :cry:It's one of the many current flaws in the story and I understand why Sakura fans are disappointed, I just don't understand how haters pick on her in times like this. I would first of all be relieved if my least favourite character is sidelined and second of all, there are much much bigger flaws going on now. :unsure:


ナルサク


#153 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:37 PM

Symbols are in my opinion Kishi's second most used literary device(after you know what ----yess parallels XD), so I think Sakura was left out because she is more than a friend to Naruto. It just seems like something Kishi would write, okay? :P

 

I also am disappointed that Sakura is sidelined again, but this is something that has been going on for a while. I don't want think Kishi just threw a bone in 632. :cry:It's one of the many current flaws in the story and I understand why Sakura fans are disappointed, I just don't understand how haters pick on her in times like this. I would first of all be relieved if my least favourite character is sidelined and second of all, there are much much bigger flaws going on now. :unsure:

Though everyone is technically sidelined, only ask to call for plot demands in moral message. Again, think of the war realistic sense. It's not about fighting just to present your ego, it's about the cooperation of all in many different ways. That's another thing, I know this is a battle shounen, but you can't always think that one character has this purpose to fight. Why can't be another type. If one is provided to you as in "you're fighter and that's how you are," then I can understand, but it's always been a intelligence and support and that's why I don't go all rant on it. Would I like her to fight? Sure, but if it doesn't happen but doing something that she was made for, then I'm ok. If she's doing nothing at all, ok, then I can rant all day.



#154 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:57 PM

This might end up being an unpopular opinion, but I did not like the chapter AT ALL. I can't even muster hate for it, I'm felt so indifferent, so unaffected reading it; Naruto and Sasuke combining their powers: Don't care. Rookies getting the cloak and using rasengan: Laughable.

 

I mean no offense to those who did enjoy it, but I thought it was just crap, I don't think I've ever reacted so negatively to a Naruto chapter, though 616-617 come in at a close second. I'm really just tired of this, and I'm not saying that as an "I'm done," or anything, so don't get the wrong idea. I just feel there are so many ways Kishi could have gone about this whole battle that could have been so much better than what he's turned out, times like this I think Kishimoto is a bored of this as readers are, it really just doesn't feel like he's trying. Fingers crossed that the next chapter will be better, but for now, I going to try get this drivel out of my head by reading some Soul Eater and Kekkaishi. -_-  



#155 Quinny52

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:57 PM

This chapter made me think of something:

 

The last time Kakashi's and Obito's Sharingan were shown to allow them to see what the other sees was during Obito's flashback on his way to Kakashi and Rin, right before Rin is killed by Kakashi. In line with Kishi linking current events with past ones, suppose if Kakashi (through their shared vision) witnesses Obito make a last ditch attempt to kill Sakura (mirroring Kakashi killing Rin), and returns from the Kamui dimension just in time to stop to stop him, allowing Naruto/Sasuke/Sakura(?) to finish him and end the fight?

 

In short, all of Team 7, trained in the teachings influenced by Obito's spirit, is what finally brings him down.


Edited by Quinny52, 16 October 2013 - 06:00 PM.

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#156 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:58 PM

 

 

 

Honestly, my main problem is how some people seem to overglorify Sakura. Your answers are quite good, to be honest. And sometimes, I do like being proven wrong (in a non-condescending way). All your answers are the kind of answers I've been trying to lure out (which is why I post here in the hopes someone like you comes out). 

 

Yes, there have been moments of them placing their trust in each other. But it feels so miniscule thanks to Naruto always trying to be a one-man show which leaves Sakura hanging around the kitchen. There needs to be a moment when Naruto is at his most vulnerable and shows his weakness, and that he needs her to overcome that weakness (615 gives me the urge to puke everytime I remember it).

 

628 was a good moment for her, but it's still lacking something. What she needs to be shown doing is something only she can accomplish that Naruto can't. I certainly would like to see her take on a leadership role if Naruto and Shikamaru are unavailable. Which reminds me of a US First Lady that effectively governed over the US for a short moment (a month, if I'm right) while her husband was sick.

 

Another thing, her words ended up to be a tempting fate moment. Way to kick her around, Kishi. It felt like Kishi was trying to diminish her efforts. 

 

My final words for you is that you are basically the kind of person who sees Sakura's relevancy in the story for what it is. Yes, there have been moments like the above, but the silver lining is that (which I think we can agree upon) there is a lack consistency and effort to make the moments significant enough.  

 

You can't deny Kishi failed in this regard. Even if Kishi wraps it up, the lack of consistency concerning their relationship would leave much greatly to be desired. In the end, I'd give him a D+ in characterization when this series is over.

You're right about it but it's not that kishi failed with Sakura but the story itself, yes we got moments where she does something and it's then put back on the background healing but the fact is that the main plot is Naruto x Sasuke.
If Sakura somehow manages to help Naruto on this matter it's show Sakura --> Naruto but i cant forget that Sakura doesnt know what hatred is which is why i was rooting for Tsunade to die, she has no relevance to the plot a long time ago she dying would at leaast give development to Sakura in this regard, something like Shikamaru/Chouji/Ino has, Sakura's will which is shown was to be stronger which is due to Naruto's effort once again on the promise and her desire to help/return his efforts which become love, but i agree that she didnt helped Naruto to overcome his weakness, if i remember when they failed to bring Sasuke back, Sakura told him that Naruto wasnt alone that she still was there but Naruto wasnt thinking about this he was thinking that he was weak and didnt become strong after all.

 

It's speculation but i cant deny that it's due to storyline Sakura relevance is totally connected with Team 7 and Naruto x Sasuke which sadly it's the main plot, hatred and peace are subplots which resolve now towards this confrontation to a point that a victory in this war is totally irrelevant if Sasuke cant be saved.

Hashirama did the right thing and he was tagged as a failure.

And i agree with you some characterizations are bad.

 

As for Sakura it's a matter of waiting game until team 7/ naruto x Sasuke come back she will become strongly relevant and that's the main plot (again) but as for Naruto his characterization is also bad, Obito asked for what he's fighting for and Naruto can only asnwer "I'm not giving up" and as for the peace, he will achieve by defeating Sasuke and converting him.


Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 16 October 2013 - 06:04 PM.

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#157 sushi.

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

Though everyone is technically sidelined, only ask to call for plot demands in moral message. Again, think of the war realistic sense. It's not about fighting just to present your ego, it's about the cooperation of all in many different ways. That's another thing, I know this is a battle shounen, but you can't always think that one character has this purpose to fight. Why can't be another type. If one is provided to you as in "you're fighter and that's how you are," then I can understand, but it's always been a intelligence and support and that's why I don't go all rant on it. Would I like her to fight? Sure, but if it doesn't happen but doing something that she was made for, then I'm ok. If she's doing nothing at all, ok, then I can rant all day.

 

It's not about fighting or healing to me. Kishi has done a very good job on her growth and development(that's a plus), but what piece is she in the current plot? I don't want to cut her out and notice nothing. I'm asking myself, as of currently; she is useful to the alliance, but is she useful for the plot/series? Please, anybody..give me an honest answer. Because it's like not even Kishi knows where she fits in anymore.

 

The reason I'm rooting for the Rin parallel is not first of all for NS, but because it would be something for Sakura. But that's a future theory, we're reading in the present.

This chapter made me think of something:

 

The last time Kakashi's and Obito's Sharingan were shown to allow them to see what the other sees was during Obito's flashback on his way to Kakashi and Rin, right before Rin is killed by Kakashi. In line with Kishi linking current events with past ones, suppose if Kakashi (through their shared vision) witnesses Obito make a last ditch attempt to kill Sakura (mirroring Kakashi killing Rin), and returns from the Kamui dimension just in time to stop to stop him, allowing Naruto/Sasuke/Sakura(?) to finish him and end the fight? In short, all of Team 7, trained in the teachings influenced by Obito's spirit, is what finally brings him down.

I am actually wondering why Kakashi is connected with Obito now. Why now all of a sudden? Q_Q


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#158 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:13 PM

This might end up being an unpopular opinion, but I did not like the chapter AT ALL. I can't even muster hate for it, I'm felt so indifferent, so unaffected reading it; Naruto and Sasuke combining their powers: Don't care. Rookies getting the cloak and using rasengan: Laughable.

 

I mean no offense to those who did enjoy it, but I thought it was just crap, I don't think I've ever reacted so negatively to a Naruto chapter, though 616-617 come in at a close second. I'm really just tired of this, and I'm not saying that as an "I'm done," or anything, so don't get the wrong idea. I just feel there are so many ways Kishi could have gone about this whole battle that could have been so much better than what he's turned out, times like this I think Kishimoto is a bored of this as readers are, it really just doesn't feel like he's trying. Fingers crossed that the next chapter will be better, but for now, I going to try get this drivel out of my head by reading some Soul Eater and Kekkaishi. -_-  

None taken, though to be honest, I think I like the chapter more than I thought the first time due to AoT soundtrack, so that was my fault. Now, well, I think it's decent but not that great or anything. I understand the purpose, but the chapter was short and all rely on one attack. I was hoping that's not the case but there you have it. It really relies on this one attack and if he continues to fight, then well, what's next.

 

Judging by your chapters you chose, you don't seem to like many people involved chapter. Well, I'm assuming because both of them has that. The funny thing is that many anime/manga has a moment of all friends join together and do one thing, so now Naruto finally got it. Well again, counting on the phoenix. I think many of us not used to multiple people in a scene in Naruto because it never happened till this arc. That or maybe imagine differently than what this chapter did. Hm, well I can see why people wants a simpler focus arc.

 

 

It's not about fighting or healing to me. Kishi has done a very good job on her growth and development(that's a plus), but what piece is she in the current plot? I don't want to cut her out and notice nothing. I'm asking myself, as of currently; she is useful to the alliance, but is she useful for the plot/series? Please, anybody..give me an honest answer. Because it's like not even Kishi knows where she fits in anymore.

 

The reason I'm rooting for the Rin parallel is not first of all for NS, but because it would be something for Sakura. But that's a future theory, we're reading in the present.

Ah, I see, but to be honest, not all of main character gets a role to be in the main story, rather than get dragged in. There are times that one character would be like "I'm so normal, but nothing amazing happens," but then always bump to the guy who has a lot of adventure that awaits him. Sakura falls to this, though she does fight and support, so those are differences. Though I would agree with you that we are jumping the gun too fast, so we have to wait. I remember how many jumped the gun on Sasuke being good, but look how that turns out. So now, it's up to Kishi to choose:

 

1) Obito: "Why? How can you defeat me? It's not possible!" Result: down and out.

Or

2) Obito: "No, I can't lose! I will achieve my world! Rin!" Result: not over.

 

So yeah, two paths. First will leave many disappointed that he's defeated this way. Second will leave many disappointed that the fight continues longer. So choose your side.



#159 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:18 PM

 

No need to apologize   :smile:

 

I think I interpreted his imagination as not being happy because he didn't even smile when he accomplished his dream as a Hokage. I would have expected him to give that huge grin of his when wearing that hat. It looked to me that he didn't look completely fulfilled even though he achieved his dream. 

 

I think the same too, he would surely smile too like he did on his flashback, when he looked at the kage mountain he wanst smilling either.

What was missing is that he wasnt happy.


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#160 Atheck

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

Am I the only one that felt like Kishi was trying to lighten the weight of "friends" this chapter? Obito saw an imagination of himself being surrounded by friends and becoming the Hokage in the end. He didn't look satisfied or happy at all. It looked like Rin was too important for Obito to be replaced by his "friends". I'm sure Kishi was trying to emphasize the importance of friends, but they didn't look important at all in Obito's flashbacks. While I was reading that part, I had a feeling that Obito still has an irreplaceable hole in his heart. 

 

And I laughed this chapter at the awkwardness of K9 flying inside Naruto's tail. I laughed at Kishi's attempts to try and make them 'shine' by using Naruto's rasengan. It was funny. Nice try Kishi, but they don't really shine. 

 

That's an interesting observation you made. You're right, he doesn't seem to be happy or content with this visionary world despite having the company of friends and associates to help him in his time of need. His expression seems to imply that he's just solemnly resigned himself to the fate he chose for himself. I didn't see any signs that he was all too happy about his life. It was almost like a procedural timeline of events without any emotional context that could make Tobi truly accepting of that particular life. 

 

I think this idiom is fitting for Tobi: "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." 

 

In relation to Tobi, you could interpret the meaning as a reference to his discontent in the life that he would have had. Achieving almost every dream he imagined and having all the support of his friends in the world yet it doesn't bring him true happiness. It's because Naruto's absolutist belief system and way of life is not for everyone. Some people become so ingrained or dedicated to a particular aspect in their life that they can't handle losing it. To them it means more than anything else that ever lived. And even you if you try to imitate the features of someone who is happy, deep down inside you'll still feel empty. I think Tobi happens to be one of those sorts of people. Rin is so vital, so critical to his existence that not even Kakashi and everyone else who he knew could accommodate for the loss. 

 

I also think the fact that he retains the scars from the insertion of Zetsu's flesh into his body is also intended to serve as a representation of the artificiality of his life. Here this traumatised soldier who was supposed to die in the last great war is being kept together thanks to the efforts of a century old hermit renegade who he himself was presumed dead long ago. He's like an abomination whose only purpose in life now is to fulfill the hollowed out aspirations he once desired so intensively. He makes others around him happy but it's at his own expense. 

 

Those are just my thoughts... It wouldn't come as a surprise to watch Tobi become so conflicted and wrought with despair that he tries to kill himself out of sheer desperation. Should that happen, I would wonder how Naruto (and Kakashi) would react to that decision. Would they try to stop him for some reason or would they allow him to be put out of his misery?  


Edited by Atheck, 16 October 2013 - 08:27 PM.





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