261 replies to this topic

[Black Rose]

What a negative atmosphere...

[Nate River]

Obama has at least made a pretense of believing that there was a crisis which Bush first ignored while on vacation and then praised Brown's inaction.

I think Hayward's problem stems from being the guy to point to as being to blame (unlike even Bush for Katrina since he didn't cause the hurricane) and then complaining about losing his leisure time when tens of thousands have lost their livelihoods and eleven lost their lives.

It was a stupid move and any kind of public leisure is going to make it look worse - particularly one that smacks of elitism.

That's precisely Hayward's problem. He's not any more likely to accomplish anything than Obama is at the moment, so pratically speaking it doesn't make much of a difference. The only difference is that Hayward is less sympathetic and an easier target.

I don't feel sorry for the guy, but if your going to criticize him for a yacht-race with his kid it's, your betting off doing it at a time when your taking a trip to Isreal (Emanuel) or golfing (Obama), and then fielding a variation of Hayward's complaint about his leisure time.

I wouldn't care, but I'm just tired of the complaining about how Bush had it so rough.
?

Then how about this: Both guys had it rough and we let the issue die. It's part of the territory and both guys had to have been aware of this when they ran. That's the other reason I don't feel sorry for either of them.

Yeah, it should have been deleted. Same goes for catsi's and both should have been warned for such obvious violations. I didn't do it because I'm adamanent about not intervening in political debates where I'm part of the debate. I want to avoid it looking like I'm punishing people for disagreeing with me. That and I responded to both of them when I probably shouldn't have.

I know both of these cases it was obvious, but I still don't like doing it.

[K9ofChaos]

*feels like to close this thread*

Tone it down, will ya?

I'm sorry, It just so frustrating how a lot of people keep making him out to be evil incarnate that I just lost control. It's one thing to disagree with the president's political views and policies but as a democrat, I believe that republicans tend to take it to the extreme. What's even more frustrating is that I'm being told to either edit or delete my post with them saying that they have a right to criticize Obama. Isn't that like a double edge sword? I can't show my frustration at the conservative right wing media for being judgmental but it's okay for the them to criticize Obama and tell others to delete their post just because they don't agree with me? I agree with catsi and nee-sama that people are being too hard on Obama when he's done everything he can without starting a war with england and people have the tendency to complain about everything he's done just so they can fuel there unnecessary hatred with the passion of a thousand suns. As catsi said (I'm quoting/paraphrasing here) he could swim down to the leaking pipe and close it himself and fox news and Rush Limbauge would be complaining that he wasn't drowning fast enough. Once again, I'm sorry about that I went overboard, I wasn't in a good mood and was tired when reading this topic. I saw a post of yours saying that people who hate Obama are haters and I was wondering if you either like Obama, dislike Obama, have mixed feelings about Obama, or just don't care enough about politics to really form an opinion about certain politicians? I'm asking you this just so I can be clear on what your political views are and that I don't make the wrong assumption on wether your a democrat, republican, independent, or just don't care. Again, I'm sorry for going overboard. I just hope that the government can find a way to fix this mess and that BP pays the price and hopefully goes out of business.

[Strangelove]

I'm sorry, It just so frustrating how a lot of people keep making him out to be evil incarnate that I just lost control. It's one thing to disagree with the president's political views and policies but as a democrat, I believe that republicans tend to take it to the extreme. What's even more frustrating is that I'm being told to either edit or delete my post with them saying that they have a right to criticize Obama. Isn't that like a double edge sword? I can't show my frustration at the conservative right wing media for being judgmental but it's okay for the them to criticize Obama and tell others to delete their post just because they don't agree with me? I agree with catsi and nee-sama that people are being too hard on Obama when he's done everything he can without starting a war with england and people have the tendency to complain about everything he's done just so they can fuel there unnecessary hatred with the passion of a thousand suns. As catsi said (I'm quoting/paraphrasing here) he could swim down to the leaking pipe and close it himself and fox news and Rush Limbauge would be complaining that he wasn't drowning fast enough. Once again, I'm sorry about that I went overboard, I wasn't in a good mood and was tired when reading this topic. I saw a post of yours saying that people who hate Obama are haters and I was wondering if you either like Obama, dislike Obama, have mixed feelings about Obama, or just don't care enough about politics to really form an opinion about certain politicians? I'm asking you this just so I can be clear on what your political views are and that I don't make the wrong assumption on wether your a democrat, republican, independent, or just don't care. Again, I'm sorry for going overboard. I just hope that the government can find a way to fix this mess and that BP pays the price and hopefully goes out of business.

You just have to be subtle. You know? The definition of subtle?
if you come out ranting like you did then the thread would have been closed, and you would have come out looking like...well a jackrabbit.

Edited by Strangelove, 22 June 2010 - 08:01 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

What's even more frustrating is that I'm being told to either edit or delete my post with them saying that they have a right to criticize Obama. Isn't that like a double edge sword? I can't show my frustration at the conservative right wing media for being judgmental but it's okay for the them to criticize Obama and tell others to delete their post just because they don't agree with me?

Pretty much what Strangelove said, you have to be subtle/smart about it. Your post was nothing but bashing. There is a difference between criticizing and mindless bashing. Be mature about it next time and don't just blow up.

I agree with catsi and nee-sama that people are being too hard on Obama when he's done everything he can without starting a war with england and people have the tendency to complain about everything he's done just so they can fuel there unnecessary hatred with the passion of a thousand suns. As catsi said (I'm quoting/paraphrasing here) he could swim down to the leaking pipe and close it himself and fox news and Rush Limbauge would be complaining that he wasn't drowning fast enough.

Yeah, but here's the thing, Obama doesn't need you to protect his feelings. He didn't choose to run for presidency so that everyone would love him. He should be able to take criticism as well as the next guy, and I believe he can. It seems more like people take any criticism of him as a personal attack because they back him. You can feel sorry for the guy all you want, but when it gets to the point where you are blowing up...to me there is a problem. Unfortunately, politics always gets waaaaay too personal.

I just hope that the government can find a way to fix this mess and that BP pays the price and hopefully goes out of business.

I kinda wonder if making BP go out of business in the long run will only hurt the economy more. Think of how many more jobs will be lost because of that, including a lot of funding to different organizations and research. My company gets a lot of funding from BP for biofuel research so I can't say I would want it to go out of business.

[Nick Soapdish]

That's precisely Hayward's problem. He's not any more likely to accomplish anything than Obama is at the moment, so pratically speaking it doesn't make much of a difference. The only difference is that Hayward is less sympathetic and an easier target.

Hayward can't do anything about the spill itself except for giving his engineers a blank check. But he has to understand that if he's going to be making speeches on behalf of BP, he's going to be a very visible public face for the company. This is exactly why CEOs get paid the big bucks. They usually don't need to do much in the day to day running of a company (at least for a large one), but they do make a few decisions each year that are absolutely huge.

I'm not actually complaining about his yacht race. I doubt that any of the decisions about the oil spill ever made it up to his level except for the bailout fund so he maybe he's just being the public spokesman.

I'm not even complaining about his complaint about losing his leisure time. However, I am saying that he deserves to get his ass chewed out over it because it's an absolutely moronic statement, given the scope of the tragedy. If I went to the beach and complained that I'd have to change my vacation plans to somewhere else because of the dirty sand to a third generation oysterman that was looking at having to sell his boat and move elsewhere because the oyster bars are looking like they'll be closed for years and BP is dragging its feet on payments ... well, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some colorful language directed at me.

And while he may not be doing much direct work with the company, he should be sending some very harshly worded e-mails to those that are - or to those that would be e-mailing those that are. BP has been consistently lowballing the estimates on damage, overestimating its capabilities in dealing with the spill & cleanup, stonewalling on information (such as the cameras of the flowrate saying that it wasn't important) and responding slowly to payment claims to people that are living paycheck to paycheck. In short, there are a lot of things that BP could improve about its handling of the crisis - besides just being able to plug the hole faster. So I think a certain degree of anger at BP is warranted.

Also, that announcement about the stock prices was incredibly stupid. Aside from the huge public relations disaster in the Gulf that everybody knows about, the threat of criminal litigation and the possibility of having lucrative government contracts taken away, it's possible that investors were also concerned about potential fine of $4300 per barrel that BP was facing - which works out to over a billion dollars a day. That's a lot of money, even for an oil company.

Having said all that, I think that BP is handling the situation much better than Exxon did back in '89. Exxon's mostly successful 20-year battle to pay for damages and protestations that it's not really a problem guaranteed that I won't be going to Exxon ever. (Except that I have a vague memory of breaking that boycott once to get gas.) It's kind of a moot point since I don't go to BP much anyway.

I don't feel sorry for the guy, but if your going to criticize him for a yacht-race with his kid it's, your betting off doing it at a time when your taking a trip to Isreal (Emanuel) or golfing (Obama), and then fielding a variation of Hayward's complaint about his leisure time.

I don't understand this part. Are there some missing words there?

I kinda wonder if making BP go out of business in the long run will only hurt the economy more. Think of how many more jobs will be lost because of that, including a lot of funding to different organizations and research. My company gets a lot of funding from BP for biofuel research so I can't say I would want it to go out of business.

BP going out of business would almost certainly be worse for the economy IMO. Especially in the short run, but also in the long run. They'll get to escape paying for much of the damages. It might be an improvement if the alleged abuses (fairly convincingly, I believe) were not going to be corrected by BP and aren't common among the industry.

Edited by Nick Soapdish, 22 June 2010 - 10:44 PM.

[Insurrection]

I'm sorry, It just so frustrating how a lot of people keep making him out to be evil incarnate that I just lost control. Once again, I'm sorry about that I went overboard, I wasn't in a good mood and was tired when reading this topic. I saw a post of yours saying that people who hate Obama are haters and I was wondering if you either like Obama, dislike Obama, have mixed feelings about Obama, or just don't care enough about politics to really form an opinion about certain politicians? I'm asking you this just so I can be clear on what your political views are and that I don't make the wrong assumption on wether your a democrat, republican, independent, or just don't care. Again, I'm sorry for going overboard. I just hope that the government can find a way to fix this mess and that BP pays the price and hopefully goes out of business.

*sigh* It's alright, but Strangelove and Soupy are right subtle is good. Puns are also acceptable.

Everyone has the feeling that they want BP in the ground now and then, Murphy's law is the life of BP they give us something new everyday. Unfortunatley if you get rid of BP you destroy 1/5 of the British pension fund and hurt the economy like Soapdish mentioned. That's the issue with this, but international companies aren't completely the same as US based corporations when it comes to commerce law, which if people are smart is an asset that can be used.

Heyward if this were to continue with the gaffes will become his own stereotype.

Edited by Insurrection, 22 June 2010 - 11:26 PM.

[Strangelove]

Tony Heyward, the name Heyward sounds to me like Haywire...lol im just making random rants about it...

[K9ofChaos]

Pretty much what Strangelove said, you have to be subtle/smart about it. Your post was nothing but bashing. There is a difference between criticizing and mindless bashing. Be mature about it next time and don't just blow up.


Yeah, but here's the thing, Obama doesn't need you to protect his feelings. He didn't choose to run for presidency so that everyone would love him. He should be able to take criticism as well as the next guy, and I believe he can. It seems more like people take any criticism of him as a personal attack because they back him. You can feel sorry for the guy all you want, but when it gets to the point where you are blowing up...to me there is a problem. Unfortunately, politics always gets waaaaay too personal.


I kinda wonder if making BP go out of business in the long run will only hurt the economy more. Think of how many more jobs will be lost because of that, including a lot of funding to different organizations and research. My company gets a lot of funding from BP for biofuel research so I can't say I would want it to go out of business.

About the second paragraph. I nether thought that I needed to "protect" his feelings and I'm sure that he can take critisism and he just chose to run for president to help out the country. Also that's what happens when people discuss politics, it gets personal.

[Gravenimage]

Dear God go I just checked the news section of Yahoo and every single comment in the Gen. McChrystal case being removed from position are nothing but flaming and bashing Obama like there's no tomorrow. I am certain that most of the people who insult him are obviously from the south where 90% of the Americans there voted for Mcain. Why do people have to play the "racist card"?

[catsi563]

because the neocons and teabaggers are fanning those flames like nobodies business. Mcrystal violated the chain of command and the UCMJ with his comments. his removal was inevitable and the right thing to do.

About the second paragraph. I nether thought that I needed to "protect" his feelings and I'm sure that he can take critisism and he just chose to run for president to help out the country. Also that's what happens when people discuss politics, it gets personal.

My comment as well wasnt about protecting his feelings. hes president he can take some criticsm. no my comment/rant was about people constantly saying ""hes not doing enough"" and then not offering proof or an explanantion about what this so called ""enough"" that hes supposed to be doing is.

but holding onto the argument in a circular fashion like it was proof of wrong doing.

[Insurrection]

Okay we've gone to the politics thread now. McCrystal belongs in the All Things Politics Thread, this is the oil spill thread.

[Nate River]

I'm sorry, It just so frustrating how a lot of people keep making him out to be evil incarnate that I just lost control. It's one thing to disagree with the president's political views and policies but as a democrat, I believe that republicans tend to take it to the extreme. What's even more frustrating is that I'm being told to either edit or delete my post with them saying that they have a right to criticize Obama. Isn't that like a double edge sword? I can't show my frustration at the conservative right wing media for being judgmental but it's okay for the them to criticize Obama and tell others to delete their post just because they don't agree with me?

No your not and who says you cannot show your frustration. Nick did so just fine. Expressing frustration doesn't require profanity ridden temper tantrums.

People express displease all the time with dropping the F-bomb every other line.

I agree with catsi and nee-sama that people are being too hard on Obama when he's done everything he can without starting a war with england and people have the tendency to complain about everything he's done just so they can fuel there unnecessary hatred with the passion of a thousand suns. As catsi said (I'm quoting/paraphrasing here) he could swim down to the leaking pipe and close it himself and fox news and Rush Limbauge would be complaining that he wasn't drowning fast enough.

This is fine and what you could have said in the first place. That's all that's being asked.

[Dreamer]

Dear God go I just checked the news section of Yahoo and every single comment in the Gen. McChrystal case being removed from position are nothing but flaming and bashing Obama like there's no tomorrow. I am certain that most of the people who insult him are obviously from the south where 90% of the Americans there voted for Mcain. Why do people have to play the "racist card"?

Sound like your doing it now.

[Insurrection]

God Damnit......changing subject.

Guess what, there was an accident on the cap, the cap's gone and now oil is gushing out even more. There's something new everyday by our friends at BP.

[Dreamer]

God Damnit......changing subject.

Guess what, there was an accident on the cap, the cap's gone and now oil is gushing out even more. There's something new everyday by our friends at BP.

Damn BP, looks like the Rover broke the vent on the cap causing pressure to break the rest of the cap. Now it's gushing out at full force.

[Insurrection]

Heard guy on fox want to know what the robot is thinking, which is funny because underwater robots are ROVs (Remote Operated Vehicles) meaning some guy on the surface is using it. Let's not forget the new story, scientist claim the dispersants BP used are causing oil to RAIN on shore.

[Dreamer]

Heard guy on fox want to know what the robot is thinking, which is funny because underwater robots are ROVs (Remote Operated Vehicles) meaning some guy on the surface is using it. Let's not forget the new story, scientist claim the dispersants BP used are causing oil to RAIN on shore.

Causes rain? I thought it was making the oil plume below the surface killing marine life, which is worse than allowing the oil to surface that could of been cleaned up easier.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Yup, as if things weren't horrifyingly terrible enough, now there could be Gulf oil rain D8<

http://www.csmonitor...sing-crude-rain

[Insurrection]

Next thing you know we have a black hurricane hitting the gulf coast, oil surges, oil rain, oil funnel clouds, not only will it be destroyed it will be hazardous to your health!

Edited by Insurrection, 25 June 2010 - 06:27 PM.