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So when did Kishi REALLY switch to NH?


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#141 lupina

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:15 AM

This sums it all perfectly and straight from Naruto the Last itself
19958893_785783688293156_803679422284199


This scene right here tells us 3 major important plots.
1. Naruto had no interest in Hinata what so ever to the point that her existence was insignificant and this was after her "confession" her "undying will to be with him" and all those other scenes of "pure love."

2. Naruto doesn't love Hinata. Any person with even the slight attraction to another wouldn't be asking questions like this. They would be instantly getting up and going to that person without having anyone say anything to them. Real love doesn't need to be told, people already know what to do even if they fail at it. Even jerks, at their core, will at least do some kind things in order to bait girls to them.

 

 

I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

<3

Edited by lupina, 12 August 2017 - 01:24 AM.

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#142 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:25 AM

What I'm saying is, you CAN'T develop a good, believable two-sided romance with the little panel time Kishimoto gave Hinata and even less he gave her together with Naruto, building a romantic relationship (that is healthy and wholesome TAKES TIME), that's why NH doesn't have anything going for it. Also the few times they shared together aren't even recalled or brought again in all the manga(that proud failure speech Analyzer loves more than life itself, it's not even in the stupid movie), meanwhile things like the Promise of a Lifetime are brought more than once, or Sakura remembering when she fed Naruto when she offered to do so after the Kakuzu and Hidan defeat.
That relationship unlike SS, has no leg to stand on, the foundation of it is a movie that changes and retcons lots of stuff about characters relationships and rules of the manga, which goes to show why it's considered kitten writing, you could hook up Naruto with Shizune and it would made the same sense NH does.

I know I'm just saying I want to see how much hinata is in the actual series and show why her and Naruto make no sense.
Naruto and Shizune has more going for it than him and hinata hell naruto and temari make more sense than him and hinata.
Thankfully we remember these things unlike the ones writing this series who don't know about continuity and consistency was that pain save ever brought up after it happened before that dumbass movie?
Ss has nothing but abuse and pain.Sakura deseveres better than sasuke.

#143 Qia

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:29 AM

 

I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

<3

holy crap I completely forgot about that scene. I was just going off what I understood about Naruto xD I didn't know he actually did walk her home. And, unless he sees her as unable to handle herself (which he doesn't), this is extremely telling.  :wot:


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#144 BlackShirtGuy

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:11 AM

holy crap I completely forgot about that scene. I was just going off what I understood about Naruto xD I didn't know he actually did walk her home. And, unless he sees her as unable to handle herself (which he doesn't), this is extremely telling.  :wot:

In the movie, I think he says something to Sakura that he thinks she is strong (which makes as much sense as Sakura suddenly turning pro NH when she never pushed Hinata to Naruto in the entire series) , but I don't believe that stuff, also if he was so in love like some people said he was, as already said, he would've tagged along with her anyways, or AT LEAST don't ask why he should walk her home.

 

 

I know I'm just saying I want to see how much hinata is in the actual series and show why her and Naruto make no sense.
Naruto and Shizune has more going for it than him and hinata hell naruto and temari make more sense than him and hinata.
Thankfully we remember these things unlike the ones writing this series who don't know about continuity and consistency was that pain save ever brought up after it happened before that dumbass movie?
Ss has nothing but abuse and pain.Sakura deseveres better than sasuke.

To me SS, really got screwed by the end of part 1 and by the time Sakura tried to kill Sasuke I was really certain those two would never be an item, regardless of who Sakura would date in the future. Early part 1, I thought there were several hints of SS and saw it as a possibility when they started talking more with each other and when Sasuke showed how much he cared about her at the Gaara fight.
Anyways what I mean is that even SS had moments, that were from both sides, however, NH didn't I think by the end of 699 Naruto considered Hinata as a friend and that's it, if he was interested in her in other way, he would've responded to her confession or at least MENTION IT or something.
You know what's pretty funny? Both confessions (Hinata and Sakura) , were dropped almost instantly never to be touched again(it's really odd,especially the Sakura one, I always found odd why she didn't apologize to Naruto for saying what she did) , I think that's something weird or at least proof that there was a heated discussion about who Naruto should end up with and Kishi choosed Sakura, but then near the end he was conviced otherwise or something.


“There are many types of monsters in this world, monsters who will not show themselves and who cause trouble. Monsters who abduct children, monsters who devour dreams, monsters who suck blood, and, monsters who always tell lies. Lying monsters are a real nuisance, they are much more cunning than other monsters. They pose as humans, even though they have no understanding of the human heart. They eat, even though they've never experienced hunger. They study even though the have no interest in academics. They seek friendship even though they do not know how to love. If I were to encounter such a monster, I would likely be eaten by it, because in truth, I am that monster.”   -L. Lawliet

 

#145 ree

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 09:31 AM

I think all the thing  @Analyzer has saids it's the same that all NH or SS has always saids, btw I can't get how Kishimoto let his manga end up in this way... I mean Naruto has everything to be the DB successor, but he let other wrote the manga, may be the in chapter 662 he wants to tell us something was wrong, cuz can you tell me if someone can find a good chapter, after the pain Arc, that has the essence of naruto? 'cuz I cannot. The ending was a total piece of crap, it's not only about the paring, what happened with Yamato, taka, how Kakashi was set as hokage... 

 


Edited by ree, 18 August 2017 - 09:31 AM.


#146 sushi.

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 06:45 PM

We're lucky guys we have our own inside man Analyzer knows Kishimoto personally so she knows for a fact he made his own decisions.

 

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#147 ree

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 07:06 PM

 

There's no truth in that Kishimoto let others write the manga. He listened to his Editors, yes, but as the mangaka, he worked to the ending he envisioned, not anyone else. The "Essence of Naruto" is a little silly, because what -is- the Essence of Naruto? This needs to be defined.

 

I also don't see what happened with Yamato, Taka, or Kakashi that is bad, Taka being minor characters as is, though you can have those opinions. 

 

 

1. please, do you really think the war arc came from Kishi's mind ? cuz I don't, this arc was kitten, boring fight, with out sense, a history that's don't make senses, the final boss introduction was in 3 cap, etc.

 

2. When I say Essence of Naruto, I mean read the cap and don't get boring, identifying with it, stay all week thing about what's gonna happen, etc. It's what makes Naruto so interesting to me, and in the arc war I could not find it.

 

3. About all minor character, their finales where important too. 



#148 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 09:09 PM

 

Nay. The correct understanding would be: Stating something that cannot be proven, does not make it fact.

I can't quite remember, but isn't there an idiom about about a black pot talking to a kettle? Maybe I am just "interpreting" things again.
 

"Oho!" said the pot to the kettle;
"You are dirty and ugly and black!
Sure no one would think you were metal,
Except when you're given a crack."
 

"Not so! not so!" kettle said to the pot;
"'Tis your own dirty image you see;
For I am so clean – without blemish or blot –
That your blackness is mirrored in me."

Though I do have to thank you for one thing. You actually brought this forum back to life a little and giving something to do for once. So in essence, you did a good thing for a bad reason. Credit where credit is due.
 

 

Thus, notably, the Main Characters, and Main Supporting Characters are visible and wrapped up at the end. 

They are visible, but are they wrapped up? Not really. Not only are they not wrapped up, but they have massive problems in their lives that they give no care to solve or even address.

Naruto's problem is him being a neglectful father, a workaholic, and just downright being a horrible hokage. He is supposed to be the strongest ninja in the world and yet gets his asskicked constantly by people far under leveled and under experienced. None of these are addressed or get solved.

Sasuke is a neglectful father, a horrible "husband" (sorry, there is no proof Sasuke married Sakura since they only spent 2 and half minutes standing around and not even talking in their wholes lives), and has no care for his family what so ever. It vaguely gets addressed by Sarada, but it never gets solved.

Sakura is worst in the kittenter by being a single mom working and taking care of things alone, has no money, relies on loans, and trying to be a mother, but can't do it by herself for some reason and so thirsty for affection that I would not be surprised if they drew her with a Sasuke pillow just to get herself off. None of this gets addressed by her or even solved.

This is unacceptable and I hate yo break it to you, but the problem I see with a lot of stories and people care more about "power levels" and kitten measuring competitions in manga than realizing that real life also has social problems as well. I know you think what you think, but you're wrong. And if you think you are not well, in your own words "That is just your interpretation."

This a fictional story where they can do whatever they want. They can make these characters perfect and happy and what not and showcase how every is amazing....except they don't do that. They showcase Naruto being miserable....Sakura being miserable....and Sasuke apathetic to everything, but his boyfriend Naruto. Now, why would they show all this? What is the point? You don't just do something in the story just for doing it, there has to be a purpose. Cause and effect. And by the end, you have to solve the problem.

Here, I can solve all the problems in less time it takes for you to try and convince me that "this was the right choice."

Naruto looks at the picture of team 7 on his desk and realizes that he is missing something. Something he had forgotten a long time ago. He wants to relive the days when things were simple, better, and he could be free. Now he feels like he is in a prison. Grabbing his phone, he gives Sakura a call and asks her to meet at place that felt the most comfortable to him: an old bench from his youth. Later that night, when the streets lights turn on, Sakura walks from the darkto see Naruto already sitting on the bench kicking his feet in the dirt.

"Hell, Naruto, been here long?" she asks sitting next to him.

"Not really, but I wanted relive a few things. This place has....character." He replied drifting into the darkness.

"I know, did you know this was the first place that..." Sakura began

"Sasuke commented on your forhead?" Naruto finished. Sakura turned her head in confusion.

"How did you know?" she asked inquisitive.

"Because it wasn't him...it was me." Naruto replied looking down. "Sasuke never really cared about you. It was always me. Even now..." Naruto leaned forward and clasped his hands together. "When we were children I always had the biggest crush on you. Soon that crush turned to love and I couldn't stopped thinking of you. Though I know you had a thing for Sasuke, it always hurt to see you frown because of him. That's why I tried so hard to make you smile. Sounds silly, huh?" Naruto smiled painfully and gave a small laugh. Sakura merely stirred. "Truth be told, I regretted not telling you the truth because I was afraid and now, I feel like I gave up too much just to make someone else happy without anyone ever wondering of my own. I have never been happy sense. For once, I want to be selfish. For once, I just want someone to think of me instead."

"But Hinata..." Sakura began.

"...doesn't understand." Naruto said. "Yeah, 'she is so cute' everyone keeps saying. 'Naruto is so lucky.' Well I don't feel lucky. I feel like I am in a prison and I don't know how to get out. That prison has made me do things that I never thought I would be doing and I hate it. I hate it with every passion of my being. The truth is is that I am still in love with you, Sakura-chan, and even if you never feel the same way for me...I still love you. That's what no one understood. Sadly, not even you, but that is okay." Naruto looked down at the dirt, gave a small chuckle, and shook his head. "Do you think of me bad for saying this? What would you do if you felt like you only did what you did because people told you to; not because you wanted to?"

Sakura looked down in grief and kept silent. Naruto stood up and stretched his arms.

"Thanks for at least listening. I do feel a little better now. Goodnight, Sakura-chan. Be safe." Naruto turned and walked off into the dark. Sakura listened as is footsteps faded into the dark; a single tear falling off her cheek and into the dirt. She felt like the biggest fool in the world and she couldn't have the strength to say or do anything. Sakura gave a small grin through her tears. "All the strength in the world...and I still couldn't do anything."

 

Keep going with the story and you can end it by this
 

Naruto and Sakura get divorces and marry each other. Because that is the realistic solution. Sasuke and Hinata agree although Hinata was more reluctant and felt miserable for it, but at the same time wondered if this might be the only good thing she has ever truly done good for Hinata. A true sacrifice not for the sake of self desires or childish dreams, but a sacrifice to make the person she loved happy. Sasuke finally feels he is free and doesn't have to worry about anything anymore. Where he goes, his fate goes with him. The kids are happy again because it feels like their parents are truly themselves and while it all seems weird at first, it feels right.

 

And that's what can happen. It doesn't diminish anyone or tear down someone else's character. It fixes problems on the developments and might just erase some of the damage by acknowledging that there was a problem with everything.

And it is not uncommon for something like this to occur. Heck, Naruto might be revolutionary IF it went this route.

However, I know exactly what you are going to say or at least partial of what you are going to say. "This doesn't solve any problems; this is just wish fulfillment for your couple to become canon; and such and such characters wouldn't do this and blah blah blah." Basically several paragraphs of how "there is nothing wrong with the ending" and "how I am just being salty or my interpretation the "wrong one."" Yeah, I have heard it all before. I have heard every argument you can practically think of at this point so nothing you are gonna say is new to me. Well, you are half right, there is some wish fulfillment and I won't lie and say their isn't, that is not the real reason why I hate this ending. Why WE hate this ending and so much more.

This is probably the point where you try to convince me that what we have now is a realistic outcome and how everything is good and beautiful, but you know what? Divorce and finding someone else you truly love is NOT unrealistic in the slightest. Even when children are involved. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but the REAL sad close-minded wrong viewpoint and looking at SS and NH as they are now and saying "this is a healthy relationship." It's not. It never will be and anyone who says otherwise has either never seen how real world relationships work or have never been in a relationship that has gone horrible wrong.

I have pro-enders saying how NH got together is a realistic form of how relationships come together. Well, divorce is much more realistic and much more likely to occur in today's day and age. In fact, in real life...SS would never happen at all and Sakura would have gotten over Sasuke the first time he physically abused her...and he did physically abuse her and mentally. Any girl in this world would have immediately fallen out of said crush because men like Sasuke don't last in relationships. "Wow, he is so cool." So he is not. He only "looks cool." He is a moody, introverted, violent, sociopath and any girl who would stay with him would have to be just like him.

What is even MORE unbelievable is how supportive some of the other girls are to Sasuke's behavior to Sakura. No way in hell would any girl friend would allow a guy to treat her this badly. Hell, I see nice guys getting just put down by the girl friends just because he said hi to a girl at a bar. You want me to believe that they would allow Sasuke to beat her up, abuse her, AND neglect both her and his child? Yeah, not happening. Do you have a girl friend who was with a guy you didn't approve of because of the stuff they did and did you say or do anything about it or did you lie to her and continue to be supportive of her "choices" by saying "Yeah, he is a great guy underneath. The neglect just means he cares."

Ever heard the term "Stockholm Syndrome?" That is what Sakura has become which is HUGE problem and is deemed not healthy by psychologist.

And you know what the sad part is out of all of this?
Sasuke gets a free pass on neglecting Sakura, but if Naruto even does anything negative towards Hinata....well, then pro-enders call him a scumbag and not a real man.

So tell me, is any of this clicking or am I just talking to air? Tell me, because this is a problem in the fandom. This is a problem with the story of Naruto on a whole and especially for a series that abandoned the typical Shonen story arc or a Shojo Romance stand point. I am so sick of people denying that Naruto didn't become a shojo romance trope when Naruto the Last is a clear definition of it.

A female character, Hinata, making a scarf so the love of her life can notice her. Sounds like a Shojo romance to me and I have watched shojo like Fruits Basket

Let me ask this: How many watch Dragonball anime series for the simple fact that they want to know who Goku and Vegeta end up with? That's what I thought. Case and point. Naruto became more about the romance than it was about anything else and it was the fandom who did it because that is all the fandom cared about. Or at least most of the weeaboo fandom of it anyway and you know how you can tell which ones are them? Because they support the ending and ignore all the problems with it.


 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 August 2017 - 09:15 PM.

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#149 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:30 PM

It's not about realism. It's about developing the characters. 

 

Exactly. And contrary to confirmation bias you repeatedly make known here, the author failed to develop his characters. This is why Naruto needs an entire post-manga movie to fall in love with Hinata. The development towards that relationship was laughable unsatisfactory. It is why Sasuke randomly falls in love with Sakura and why the writers have to resort to gimmicks such as Sasuke being away from home all the time. It's why we get ample tell instead of show when it comes to Naruto and Hinata's relationship. And it's why they have to make stuff up (i.e. Hinata is a scary mom!) when it comes to Hinata's characteristics.

 

When looking at the evidence in its totality, Kishi wanted to tell a story about himself and decided to make his wife his love interest. At some point during the series, plans changed and he made the weird girl his love interest instead. Kishi's own wife got pissed, having followed the clear bread trail he had intended to mirror their marriage. But after taking a couple of lumps, hearing the word baka slung around for a few days and showing her his latest royalties check, all was forgiven in an NS fashion. :lmao:  :narusaku:

 

 

SS isn't a real family unit, with Sasuke away...but NH isn't a healthy relationship? That's Objectively lying. Families have problems. They aren't perfect, and I think, the real nice thing about it, even though I don't ship it, is that they get through obstacles, and that makes their family better. But nothing, not even the problems in Boruto, make the relationship unhealthy. The relationship is based on mutual respect and admiration. :/ Nothing unhealthy at all. 

 

 

Because someone doesn't share your opinion on NH, they're a liar? You sure you don't ship NH? I know a lot of die hard NH fans who wouldn't go that far.  :lmao:


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 18 August 2017 - 11:49 PM.

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#150 Qia

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:36 PM

 

Because someone doesn't share your opinion on NH, they're a liar? You sure you don't ship NH? I know a lot of die hard NH fans who wouldn't go that far.  :lmao:

 

I believe that's why she said OBJECTIVELY lying. It's your subjective opinion that they have an unhealthy relationship because objectively the manga shows otherwise. In fact, we barely get to see what their relationship is like at the end of the manga. Just the relationship between Burrito and Naruto. Unless you're talking about Gaiden, which I haven't read. 


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#151 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:45 PM

 

I believe that's why she said OBJECTIVELY lying. It's your subjective opinion that they have an unhealthy relationship because objectively the manga shows otherwise. In fact, we barely get to see what their relationship is like at the end of the manga. Just the relationship between Burrito and Naruto. Unless you're talking about Gaiden, which I haven't read. 

 

I don't know if I agree with this, but it'd be one thing to say that James was wrong. It's another to accuse him of lying. Objectively at that! (whatever that means).  :confused:


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 18 August 2017 - 11:46 PM.

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#152 Qia

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:52 PM

 

I don't know if I agree with this, but it'd be one thing to say that James was wrong. It's another to accuse him of lying. Objectively at that! (whatever that means).  :confused:

Subjective= Your opinion 

Objective= Facts

 

We haven't been shown anything in the manga that there is anything toxic or unhealthy about their relationship. You can argue that it's not believable that they would end up together, but at the end of the day if it's your opinion then it's subjective. Granted, I've never seen anyone use the term that way -objectively lying- but I believe what she means is that it's James subjectivity, not fact. 


Edited by Qia, 18 August 2017 - 11:53 PM.

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#153 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:06 AM

Subjective= Your opinion 

Objective= Facts

 

We haven't been shown anything in the manga that there is anything toxic or unhealthy about their relationship. You can argue that it's not believable that they would end up together, but at the end of the day if it's your opinion then it's subjective. Granted, I've never seen anyone use the term that way -objectively lying- but I believe what she means is that it's James subjectivity, not fact. 

 

I don't personally have an opinion either way on whether NH is toxic, but if I'm being honest, Kishimoto's comment about Boruto being the "bolt" that holds them together and probably the "pointlessly stay a work all the time" stuff could allow for the interpretation that it's toxic. Again, I don't care. It's not an interesting relationship to me either way. But I can see where the arguments could be made. Which is really just a testament to bad writing since I'm sure that's not the author's intent.

 

As to the lie business, a lie implies willful dishonesty; an intent to deceive. I don't think I've ever heard any definition that does not include that. Of course, she'll probably come back and scapegoat it away as "snark" or whatever, so it's probably moot. :lmao:


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 19 August 2017 - 12:10 AM.

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#154 BlackShirtGuy

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:08 AM

Subjective= Your opinion 

Objective= Facts

 

We haven't been shown anything in the manga that there is anything toxic or unhealthy about their relationship. You can argue that it's not believable that they would end up together, but at the end of the day if it's your opinion then it's subjective. Granted, I've never seen anyone use the term that way -objectively lying- but I believe what she means is that it's James subjectivity, not fact. 

That's true, but we ALSO haven't been shown anything in the manga to suggest either Naruto or Hinata are happy with their current relationship.
Barring The Last Retcon, is Naruto ever shown saying I love you to his wife? Is Naruto ever shown kissing, hugging his wife? Is Hinata ever shown doing the same to Naruto? "They are married" isn't enough proof to say that they are happy together, lots of marriages in fictions, are not happy with each other and they stay together for other reasons, didn't kishi said in an interview that Bolt was the thing keeping them together???

In which case there is no FACT that says NH is a happy marriage and there is no FACT saying otherwise.
They are just opinions and to each their own.


Edited by BlackShirtGuy, 19 August 2017 - 12:12 AM.

“There are many types of monsters in this world, monsters who will not show themselves and who cause trouble. Monsters who abduct children, monsters who devour dreams, monsters who suck blood, and, monsters who always tell lies. Lying monsters are a real nuisance, they are much more cunning than other monsters. They pose as humans, even though they have no understanding of the human heart. They eat, even though they've never experienced hunger. They study even though the have no interest in academics. They seek friendship even though they do not know how to love. If I were to encounter such a monster, I would likely be eaten by it, because in truth, I am that monster.”   -L. Lawliet

 

#155 lupina

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:09 AM

The only thing we know about Naruto and Hinatas' relationship/life is, if I can recall correctly: 

 

- The alcohol bottles on Narutos' desk

- Many cups of instant ramen on his desk

- He has no time for his son 

- He came home drunk and slept on the couch

 

What else do we know? 


"We live in a world that is so quick to convince us to ignore our feelings. Feeling stressed? Get a massage. Feeling angry? Go to the bar with your friends and blow off steam. Feeling lonely? Meet someone in cyberspace and have a conversation on the computer. Depressed? Take a pill. Anxiety? Take 2 pills. Feeling happy? Well, by George, don’t talk about that because no one likes a bragger. Same with being sad, no one likes a Debbie Downer. But, heaven FORBID, that you actually TALK about your feelings and process them in a healthy way."
 
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#156 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:12 AM

The only thing we know about Naruto and Hinatas' relationship/life is, if I can recall correctly: 

 

- The alcohol bottles on Narutos' desk

- Many cups of instant ramen on his desk

- He has no time for his son 

- He came home drunk and slept on the couch

 

What else do we know? 

 

Exactly. There's more than enough subtext present to make a compelling case that it's toxic and maintain that interpretation.. I just don't believe that this is the actual intent on the writers' part. I think they're just bad writers. Or maybe they're good writers who are just cashing in on what remains of the Naruto cash cow these days. Who knows at this point? :lmao:


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 19 August 2017 - 12:14 AM.

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#157 Qia

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:15 AM

 

I don't personally have an opinion either way on whether NH is toxic, but if I'm being honest, Kishimoto's comment about Boruto being the "bolt" that holds them together and probably the "pointlessly stay a work all the time" stuff could allow for the interpretation that it's toxic. Again, I don't care. It's not an interesting relationship to me either way. But I can see where the arguments could be made. Which is really just a testament to bad writing since I'm sure that's not the author's intent.

 

As to the lie business, a lie implies willful dishonesty. I don't think I've ever heard any definition that does not include that. Of course, she'll probably come back and scapegoat it away as "snark" or whatever, so it's probably moot. :lmao:

Yes...interpretation. Your interpretation. In other words, subjective. It could be that they're just having problems in the relationship but that's normal for every couple. Every couple has their fights. Doesn't make the relationship unhealthy/toxic. Hence why she probably felt the need to point out that it's not a fact that it is this way- that it's toxic. Nonetheless, we're in a place to discuss NH and discussion can't be had about facts because facts are true things in the external world. So...of course a lot of things that are gonna be said is subjective and not objective. No point in pointing that out, IMO (this is more to Analyzer btw). 


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#158 BlackShirtGuy

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:17 AM

 

Exactly. There's more than enough subtext present to make the case that it's toxic and maintain that interpretation.. I just don't believe that this is the actual intent on the writers' part. I think they're just bad writers. Or maybe they're good writers who are just cashing in on what remains of the Naruto cash cow these days. Who knows at this point? :lmao:

It's still weird, what was Kishi's reason to do as he did, did he resented the ending he choose? Because, if he wanna go with NH and SS all along, why make the families as unhappy as they are now, only to give their children conflicts?  There are better ways than that. (No, analyzer this is not a conspiracy theory I'm only pointing a contradiction in the NH and SS was planned from the start argument)


“There are many types of monsters in this world, monsters who will not show themselves and who cause trouble. Monsters who abduct children, monsters who devour dreams, monsters who suck blood, and, monsters who always tell lies. Lying monsters are a real nuisance, they are much more cunning than other monsters. They pose as humans, even though they have no understanding of the human heart. They eat, even though they've never experienced hunger. They study even though the have no interest in academics. They seek friendship even though they do not know how to love. If I were to encounter such a monster, I would likely be eaten by it, because in truth, I am that monster.”   -L. Lawliet

 

#159 lupina

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:17 AM

 

 

I just don't believe that this is the actual intent on the writers' part. I think they're just bad writers.

 

Me neither. 

I think it is because of the lack of interaction between the two of them in the original series, they have very little foundation to work with on that subject ... and thus, avoiding it nearly completly. 


Edited by lupina, 19 August 2017 - 12:18 AM.

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- Amy Cassidy

#160 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:12 AM

You are taking a serious position that the NH relationship is... toxic?

 

Don't care. Although since I'm not a fanboy, I'm capable of considering the merits of such a position. Objectively at that. :wink:

 

 
First off, yes, this "subtext" is the only way you can twist the views to fit your idea. Because Alcohol bottles (How many times do we even see that) equate misery, instant ramen equates not eating at home, rather than, trying to fit in a quick meal, no time for his son, because he doesn't yet have the balance between work and home, which is resolved by the way by the end of Boruto, and...he came home drunk and slept on the couch once.

 

And you're entitled to your interpretation (which I don't even necessarily disagree with). However, when you say things like:

 

I'd love to honor an opinion as an opinion but the problem with it is that it is built on lies. 

 

You expose yourself as a rabid fangirl. A NH fangirl at that. You are utterly incapable of assessing this subject objectively if you sincerely believe that anyone here is attempting to actually lie about the subject. That conspiracy theory label you like to throw around fits you like a glove. And since you've doubled down on these insinuations of deceit, it doesn't look like you're going with the way Quia interpreted your comment. Perhaps James' comments have struck a nerve. Who knows. Oh yeah and . . .

 

Guys, first off, on a writing level, this makes zero sense.

 

 

I agree with this. Which is why I call it what it is: Bad writing. The writers wanted Naruto's adult life to mirror Kishi's and created room for subtext of the worst sort. Terrible idea and terrible execution.


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 19 August 2017 - 02:13 AM.

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Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!





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