19964 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Then comes up the classic generalization fallacy.

Not all the NS fans see all the NS moments as development or slowly buildup take per example the hug scene, no development and one-sided from Sakura because Naruto didnt hugged her back.

Because it's the first time Naruto made a physical contact with Hinata.
But Naruto touched Sakura countless of times and she even grabbed Naruto's hand so it's mutual.

Funny it took 615 to finally touch Naruto and vice versa. Face touch happened with Sakura. Usually doing that is like "Look at me, don't get lost" touch. Hand grabbing is gratitude and stand strong, like how Fairy Tail did it when the dragon was too powerful. Again, two genders, one seeks romance, anything between them is equal romance developments.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Funny it took 615 to finally touch Naruto and vice versa. Face touch happened with Sakura. Usually doing that is like "Look at me, don't get lost" touch. Hand grabbing is gratitude and stand strong, like how Fairy Tail did it when the dragon was too powerful. Again, two genders, one seeks romance, anything between them is equal romance developments.

The development that i see for Nh was end of part 1 Naruto does not see Hinata as dark and weirdo anymore, 615 when he thanked her and Neji for being at his side on that moment, acknowledging she was strong and can look for herself.(because even saying she was strong his expression on 614 told that inside he had an other view of Hinata that she was a weak girl who needs protection).

This is the only development that i see, the rest is a development for Hinata, likewise the same thing happens with NS but has more ground and development.

End of Part 1 Naruto becomes someome important to Sakura(after the confession) and she sees Naruto as someome who she can rely on acknowleding him.
Part 2 - Starts caring about him too much that start a conflict of feelings on her ("does really loves Sasuke") Kishimoto states this doubt then the next jump is on Pain's arc with the hug where she acknowledges Naruto as an amazing shinobi ever, and hugs him.

But still after it Kishimoto confirms her feelings for Sasuke on two chapters later after learning that Sasuke is in Akatsuki and also confirms naruto's feelings for Sakura wiht his facial expressions and how he got hurt witnessing Sakura crying.
It's not development yet but still let's go.

Going back is Sai tells sakura about naruto's feelings and how it makes him go to talk with the Raikage even being useless.
She gots hurt and acknowledge Naruto's feelings for her also trigger a momentum where she can think about her feelings for Naruto and Sasuke.

Then we have another development from Sakura where she acknowledges Naruto as the man who was at her side, encouraged her, makes her feel safe and can make her happy to a point that she was able to bury her feelings for Sasuke (this is development).
But still she had feelings for Sasuke.

Then we jump to 579(?) where she has the desire to support Naruto and wants to share Naruto's burden and responsabilities.

So for NH on Naruto's standpoint we have (Not dark and weirdo girl, Acknowledgment[general type])
NS from Sakura's we have (Not an idiot,Acknowledgment,Conflict feelings,Acknowledgment(Shinobi),Acknowledge her feelings for Naruto,Acknowledge Naruto's efforts,Share his burden).

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 07 April 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

The development that i see for Nh was end of part 1 Naruto does not see Hinata as dark and weirdo anymore, 615 when he thanked her and Neji for being at his side on that moment, acknowledging she was strong and can look for herself.(because even saying she was strong his expression on 614 told that inside he had an other view of Hinata that she was a weak girl who needs protection).

This is the only development that i see, the rest is a development for Hinata, likewise the same thing happens with NS but has more ground and development.

End of Part 1 Naruto becomes someome important to Sakura(after the confession) and she sees Naruto as someome who she can rely on acknowleding him.
Part 2 - Starts caring about him too much that start a conflict of feelings on her ("does really loves Sasuke") Kishimoto states this doubt then the next jump is on Pain's arc with the hug where she acknowledges Naruto as an amazing shinobi ever, and hugs him.

But still after it Kishimoto confirms her feelings for Sasuke on two chapters later after learning that Sasuke is in Akatsuki and also confirms naruto's feelings for Sakura wiht his facial expressions and how he got hurt witnessing Sakura crying.
It's not development yet but still let's go.

Going back is Sai tells sakura about naruto's feelings and how it makes him go to talk with the Raikage even being useless.
She gots hurt and acknowledge Naruto's feelings for her also trigger a momentum where she can think about her feelings for Naruto and Sasuke.

Then we have another development from Sakura where she acknowledges Naruto as the man who was at her side, encouraged her, makes her feel safe and can make her happy to a point that she was able to bury her feelings for Sasuke (this is development).
But still she had feelings for Sasuke.

Then we jump to 579(?) where she has the desire to support Naruto and wants to share Naruto's burden and responsabilites.

So for NH on Naruto's standpoint we have (Not dark and weirdo girl, Acknowledgment)
NS from Sakura's we have (Not an idiot,Acknowledgment,Conflict feelings,Acknowledgment(Shinobi),Acknowledge her feelings for Naruto,Acknowledge Naruto's efforts,Share his burden).

Ah pshaw. Thats not development. Stalking someone that development.

[TouKen4Life3g]

The development that i see for Nh was end of part 1 Naruto does not see Hinata as dark and weirdo anymore, 615 when he thanked her and Neji for being at his side on that moment, acknowledging she was strong and can look for herself.(because even saying she was strong his expression on 614 told that inside he had an other view of Hinata that she was a weak girl who needs protection).

This is the only development that i see, the rest is a development for Hinata, likewise the same thing happens with NS but has more ground and development.

End of Part 1 Naruto becomes someome important to Sakura(after the confession) and she sees Naruto as someome who she can rely on acknowleding him.
Part 2 - Starts caring about him too much that start a conflict of feelings on her ("does really loves Sasuke") Kishimoto states this doubt then the next jump is on Pain's arc with the hug where she acknowledges Naruto as an amazing shinobi ever, and hugs him.

But still after it Kishimoto confirms her feelings for Sasuke on two chapters later after learning that Sasuke is in Akatsuki and also confirms naruto's feelings for Sakura wiht his facial expressions and how he got hurt witnessing Sakura crying.
It's not development yet but still let's go.

Going back is Sai tells sakura about naruto's feelings and how it makes him go to talk with the Raikage even being useless.
She gots hurt and acknowledge Naruto's feelings for her also trigger a momentum where she can think about her feelings for Naruto and Sasuke.

Then we have another development from Sakura where she acknowledges Naruto as the man who was at her side, encouraged her, makes her feel safe and can make her happy to a point that she was able to bury her feelings for Sasuke (this is development).
But still she had feelings for Sasuke.

Then we jump to 579(?) where she has the desire to support Naruto and wants to share Naruto's burden and responsabilites.

So for NH on Naruto's standpoint we have (Not dark and weirdo girl, Acknowledgment[general type])
NS from Sakura's we have (Not an idiot,Acknowledgment,Conflict feelings,Acknowledgment(Shinobi),Acknowledge her feelings for Naruto,Acknowledge Naruto's efforts,Share his burden).

Good point. In some way, that's how I see it, especially after that thread was made with all (almost) NS panels.

[Dkey]

But that's also part of my point
NH fans interpret Naruto's initiation of the hand-holding as his reciprocation of feelings, while we don't see romantic intent at all. It's a matter of perspective.

Both us and NH fans are biased. One can not be 100% logical about it... if that would be the case then he would be a neutral Naruto fan with an opinion.

What I'm saying is you can legitimately defend a shipping or another without some form of subjectivity for your preference.

Also the ones flaming each other are usually the ones who let their preference lead on and that leads to insults, arguments demolished with sarcasm and trolling and so forth.

Let's be realistic here, there are probably a couple of better things we can do during the day then debate pairings in a manga, yet it's what we decided to do with our free time.

Even in real life a debate is usually between two ideas that aren't that bad, but as one of my college professors said, any project has advantages and disadvantages.

[Branden]

Both us and NH fans are biased. One can not be 100% logical about it... if that would be the case then he would be a neutral Naruto fan with an opinion.

What I'm saying is you can legitimately defend a shipping or another without some form of subjectivity for your preference.

Also the ones flaming each other are usually the ones who let their preference lead on and that leads to insults, arguments demolished with sarcasm and trolling and so forth.

Let's be realistic here, there are probably a couple of better things we can do during the day then debate pairings in a manga, yet it's what we decided to do with our free time.

Even in real life a debate is usually between two ideas that aren't that bad, but as one of my college professors said, any project has advantages and disadvantages.

neutral fans don't exist

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

neutral fans don't exist

Doesnt exist but i think he was labelling as neutral people who doesnt ship any of NS, NH and SS.

Example is me before the confession of Sakura after the rescue.
I didnt ship Ns NH or even SS, i didnt ship any of them, moreover because all of those pairing had downsides.

Narusaku, Naruto suffers a lot because of his love for Sakura, Naruto wants to make Sakura happy even sacrificing himself but he cant hide how hurt he get, part 1 is full of it and also part 2, on part 1 it was more sad when Naruto come back to the hospital and he was pratically desperate when he was talking to her because he failed to bring back Sasuke, like "Sakura i'm so sorry i swear i will" that was sad.
part 2 point out when Sakura cried after hearing that Sasuke joined Akatsuki, he does love her but he struggles a lot, even when he said "but she loves Sasuke a lot" with a melancholic tone.

Meawhile she pursues a guy that treated her like trash and tried to kill her.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 07 April 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[HauntedCake]

Meawhile she pursues a guy that treated her like trash and tried to kill her.

This one line hurts us NS fans the most.

Sakura being in her mid teens doesn't help because her raging hormones will be adding fuel to her SS fire.

Is it fair to say due to her age physical/instinctual attraction overrides logical/real love?

[Baguette]

This one line hurts us NS fans the most.

Sakura being in her mid teens doesn't help because her raging hormones will be adding fuel to her SS fire.

Is it fair to say due to her age physical/instinctual attraction overrides logical/real love?

A writer induced love triangle overrides logical/real love.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

A writer induced love triangle overrides logical/real love.

It's not the problem of the love triangle is the forced love that Kishimoto did with Sakura.

I know he doesnt want to spoil a pairing right away but what he did to SS is totally illogic to continue with it, she already acknowledged that Naruto did all the thing to her and there's basically nothing, Kishimoto didnt even introduced a reason for Sakura to love Sasuke, it already started ilogical, I think even Karin has more reasons to love Sasuke since he saved her life but still doesnt make sense.

The only image that she keeps of her is his "thank you" which basically had no meaning to him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 07 April 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[bthug]

@HuntedCake Is the gif in your signature canon?

[HauntedCake]

@HuntedCake Is the gif in your signature canon?

The one on the left is from Rock lee spin off series. The one on the right is from anime

[Shadow1275]

It's not the problem of the love triangle is the forced love that Kishimoto did with Sakura.

I know he doesnt want to spoil a pairing right away but what he did to SS is totally illogic to continue with it, she already acknowledged that Naruto did all the thing to her and there's basically nothing, Kishimoto didnt even introduced a reason for Sakura to love Sasuke, it already started ilogical, I think even Karin has more reasons to love Sasuke since he saved her life but still doesnt make sense.

The only image that she keeps of her is his "thank you" which basically had no meaning to him.

Agreed accept for starting out. Sakura at first only had a crush on Sasuke which makes sense. Talented, good looking in her eyes, cool. Thats usually how it works with crushes. Than he called her annoying and thats where it should have taken a hit, however Naruto transforms to Sasuke and complements her forehead so she still has a crush on him. However, despite being completely ignored and treated like trash, She somehow realizes he is a real person and develops deeper feelings for him. Personally, I see Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being more deep infatuation than love, but according to Kishimoto at his interview about the Sakura confession chapter she still loves Sasuke. Now in my opinion her feelings seem to be changing but only the future will decide.

@Baguette

Haha sorry didn't mean to turn you into the bad guy. But your not a bad guy, your just trying to keep the fandom honest. Do I like NaruxSaku more than NaruxHina? Yes I do for various reasons. There is definitely bias among both fandoms. My point is that if there is solid evidence behind someone's argument then it isn't necessarily biased. For example, normally I would agree that Naruto grabbing Hinata's hand would possibly signify a change in his feelings. However, after you see that the fox was the one who made Naruto get over Neji's death, compounded with the fox telling Naruto that it had needed time to charge up chakra and that he had to transfer chakra to everybody you have to question how romantic that really was. Naru/Hina can still happen, but until we get a panel showing Naruto's feelings changing then nothing has changed.

Edited by Shadow1275, 07 April 2013 - 10:57 PM.

[Baguette]

Agreed accept for starting out. Sakura at first only had a crush on Sasuke which makes sense. Talented, good looking in her eyes, cool. Thats usually how it works with crushes. Than he called her annoying and thats where it should have taken a hit, however Naruto transforms to Sasuke and complements her forehead so she still has a crush on him. However, despite being completely ignored and treated like trash, She somehow realizes he is a real person and develops deeper feelings for him. Personally, I see Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being more deep infatuation than love, but according to Kishimoto at his interview about the Sakura confession chapter she still loves Sasuke. Now in my opinion her feelings seem to be changing but only the future will decide.

@Baguette

Haha sorry didn't mean to turn you into the bad guy. But your not a bad guy, your just trying to keep the fandom honest. Do I like NaruxSaku more than NaruxHina? Yes I do for various reasons. There is definitely bias among both fandoms. My point is that if there is solid evidence behind someone's argument then it isn't necessarily biased. For example, normally I would agree that Naruto grabbing Hinata's hand would possibly signify a change in his feelings. However, after you see that the fox was the one who made Naruto get over Neji's death, compounded with the fox telling Naruto that it had needed time to charge up chakra and that he had to transfer chakra to everybody you have to question how romantic that really was. Naru/Hina can still happen, but until we get a panel showing Naruto's feelings changing then nothing has changed.

Wait, that happened?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Agreed accept for starting out. Sakura at first only had a crush on Sasuke which makes sense. Talented, good looking in her eyes, cool. Thats usually how it works with crushes. Than he called her annoying and thats where it should have taken a hit, however Naruto transforms to Sasuke and complements her forehead so she still has a crush on him. However, despite being completely ignored and treated like trash, She somehow realizes he is a real person and develops deeper feelings for him. Personally, I see Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being more deep infatuation than love, but according to Kishimoto at his interview about the Sakura confession chapter she still loves Sasuke. Now in my opinion her feelings seem to be changing but only the future will decide.

The bench scene does not take part on this process because it's not bought back.
Even the reason to be love is ridiculous, she might become love because they were teammates.
Even her flashbacks states it, "the thank you" takes basically a big part of her so called love for Sasuke, there's nothing it's even worse than Hinata's love for Naruto which is called infatuation by Kishimoto himself on databook 3.

And it's because SS does not even have a development to start with, she was just pursuing Sasuke and wanted to be his teammate to have become something to his life then she becomes an teammate and he acknowledges it with the "thank you".
Nice development.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 07 April 2013 - 11:08 PM.

[Shadow1275]

The bench scene does not take part on this process because it's not bought back.
Even the reason to be love is ridiculous, she might become love because they were teammates.
Even her flashbacks states it, "the thank you" takes basically a big part of her so called love for Sasuke, there's nothing it's even worse than Hinata's love for Naruto which is called infatuation by Kishimoto himself on databook 3.

Preaching to the choir bra, it is completely one-sided and illogical and yet somehow in the crazy world of Kishi it works.

@Baguette
The fox needed time to build up chakra http://www.onemanga....to_manga/616/9/

[Baguette]

Preaching to the choir bra, it is completely one-sided and illogical and yet somehow in the crazy world of Kishi it works.

@Baguette
The fox needed time to build up chakra http://www.onemanga....to_manga/616/9/

Hm, that may not apply to the length of time during which Naruto held Hinata's hand, but rather the length of time during which Naruto's Bjuu mode was unavailable. Still, 616 does effectively downplay the romantic context of the NH moment.

Edited by Baguette, 07 April 2013 - 11:24 PM.

[Shadow1275]

Hm, that may not apply to the length of time during which Naruto held Hinata's hand, but rather the length of time during which Naruto's Bjuu mode was unavailable. Still, 616 does effectively downplay the romantic context of the NH moment.

Fair point. I will say that the hand-holding scene was a significant Naru/Hina moment in terms of their relationship strengthening. However, based on the chapters and evidence it is a stretch to call it a NaruHina romantic moment on Naruto's part. And definitely a lllllloooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg stretch to call it canon.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Hm, that may not apply to the length of time during which Naruto held Hinata's hand, but rather the length of time during which Naruto's Bjuu mode was unavailable. Still, 616 does effectively downplay the romantic context of the NH moment.

What takes out the romantic context is that it wasnt a mutual moment it wanst a moment were Naruto and Hinata shared with each other, it was a moment were Naruto was holding Hinata's hand, thinking about Neji and talking with the Kyuubi.
This is not romantic.

[FrenchMyToast]

What takes out the romantic context is that it wasnt a mutual moment it wanst a moment were Naruto and Hinata shared with each other, it was a moment were Naruto was holding Hinata's hand, thinking about Neji and talking with the Kyuubi.
This is not romantic.

I'm actually quite surprised at the amount of people who think NaruHina is canon as of 615. Not even "NH has a higher chance of being endgame" but, "NH is canon now, deal with it." Even if Naruto somehow developed feelings for Hinata, he hasn't confessed, so I don't know where they get that idea. I guess it'll just be worse for them if NaruSaku becomes canon.

And since we're talking about 615, I guess I'll share. I think when the chapter was released, we had to see it as romantic, but 616 just stomped on any potential NH development. Kishi had soooooo many possibilities for more NH, but he just decided to move on with the story.

And just a side note. Is anybody else really excited about the next chapter? I think it's gonna be pretty big, considering the flashback is over. Though I've given up on seeing any Mito/Karin/Sakura for the time being. C'mon Kishi...

Edited by FrenchMyToast, 08 April 2013 - 12:48 AM.