19964 replies to this topic

[Jake]

Tied with Shino at 2nd smartest within K11, in fact.

To be honest, my list at this point would probably go:
1. Naruto
2. Sasuke
3. Shikamaru
4. Neji
5. Choji
6. Lee
7. Shino
9. Sakura
10. Kiba
11. Hinata
12. Ino
14. TenTen

Who is in 8th and 13th?

[Inferno180]

If I had to make a list of who was the strongest (by generalities) in the K11 + Sai then it would be something like this with current estimated rank totals:

1. Naruto - this is a unique case due to the sage and nine tail modes modes about 30.5 to a 32 with his own normal power, goes to a 34 or so with sage, at least 36 with nine tails chakra mode. With Naruto now being able to call a chakra incarnation of kurama who can move freely, its like his own unique summon and kurama can control it as he wishes, oh and the tailed beast bomb. Will get higher but this is mainly due to the sage and nine tails modes, they enhance his strength, speed, and endurance but its limited and he cannot control nine tails chakra perfectly, it will get better but this super power is limited

2. Nej- he was a 28 when we last saw, sadly we have no idea how he turned out, maybe a 31 normally he has to have more in total than 28 but not enough to overtake Naruto.

3. Sai- yeah this is surprising but he was a 27.5 at first, he should most likely be a 29 to 30.5, he has a lot of skill and he does have a lot of sealing seals, also former ANBU training.

4. Sakura- Know she may not seem it but there is reason for this and its not out of favoritism: I'd say she would be about a 29 solid, close to Sai but not in neji or naruto's league she was equal with Naruto at first so she was ahead of most of the others, we have seen her with other abilities she has not used as much such as poison and smoke bombs but its no surprise that she should have gotten, during pain she displayed more power with her CHS to lift and throw the giant centipede kinda like how Tsunade took Gumabunta's giant sword and used it on Manda. She also had that good perception against zetsu neji, know we have not seen much of her in action, but Sakura did apparently improve offscreen by these. Not to mention she did actually dodge the ten tails widespread wood stake attack, this is enough for me.

5. Choji- He did get much stronger during this war arc, I'd say he jumped to a 28.5, its just due to that butterfly form, he has a lot of power and stamina, also should have improved since Asuma's death and reanimation but still limited in speed.

6. Shikamaru- Did not really see much in terms of improvement, he should be a 27.5 solid but his intelligence still just lets him get one over on many. I mean he should have improved somewhat physically but still keeps things simple.

7. Hinata- She should be a 25-27, not really sure where she lands exactly, buts that's just due to her having practically no battles sadly, she should have improved though. Well she has fillers to show how she improved a bit.

8. Shino- Always forgotten but always remembered, okay he was a 22, he should be a 26.5 at least, maybe a 27. Still same league as Hinata in not much to show how he improved even with fillers.

9. Kiba- I'd say he is at least a 26.5, yeah he should have improved but not much in new skills, same problem with the rest of team 8 to determine these, limited screentime but its known he should have gotten up

10. Tenten- She was a 20.5, she should be a solid 26, not much though in terms of fights, she has fillers but her weapon and summoning skills leave her limited.

11. Ino- Did ino even learn a new technique like her father? Not that anyone knows, sadly for Ino her techniques are made for spying and reconniesence, not combat, even in the games they need to give her some different moveset because you can't fight with her simple mind transfer tech. Sadly I feel Ino is just stuck at a 25.5 or 26.

12. Lee, yes Lee, he is very strong, very fast, and very enduring but the problem is he has no ninjutsu, genjutsu, or hand seals this is his weakness, he can only be a 25 at most so yeah, lee is maxed out. Eight gates are his limit but like Naruto's modes in respect, this can compensate and jump him to a 34 at least for his stamina, strength, and speed.

[Shadow1275]

Sakura came from a civilian family.
Haruno =/= Clan

Sigh... I know. Still, that doesn't rule out elemental ninjutsu. That being said Sakura has the power to take on top level ninja because she can amplify her strength. The only problem is that she hasn't been given a fight since Sasori so some people get the impression that she is really weak. However, not all of the characters powers have to have a big explanation as to how they got them. For example, Hinata suddenly obtained the power to create Lions on her hands without any explanation. My point is that her power up doesn't have to be the Yin seal, it could be elements or Katsuyu.

Edited by Shadow1275, 07 April 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[redragon88]

You're right, she hasn't been in any serious fights since Sasori, but there were other times where that power would have been handy. For example, during the Pain invasion. Tsunade found Pain worthy enough of an opponent to use the Yin Seal, (if I'm remembering correctly, she uses it's power to call on Katsuyu and, through her, lend her chakra to the village), so if Sakura was also able to use that kind of power, why not assist? I would be so frustrated if I learned that she knew how to use that power all along but didn't during the invasion...

I understand I you would feel that way but let me try to explain each situation as best I can.

During the Pain attack Sakura was busy healing people and nowhere near Tsuande. Tsunade had only a split second to do all that she did to protect the village from the Pain nuke as best she could (I actually give her infinite praise for managing to do something like that so quickly). There was no time to call Sakura to aid her if Sakura truly already had the same ability.

Then there's the confrontation with Sasuke. I believe he is more than a worthy opponent to use the Yin Seal techniques on, (assuming she knew how to use them at the time), but instead of utilizing her full power, she falls back on a poisoned kunai? That just doesn't make sense to me. If she had the ability to use the techniques, why fall back on such a weak weapon?

She used the kunai because she's aware of how powerful Sasuke has become, and so came up with the best way to kill him as quickly as she could. Sasuke is a genius ninja, and so Sakura knows that eventually he would overpower her, thus her failing to kill him. That's why she used a different approach to have a better chance: deception and death by poison.

Sakura in this instance actually tried to act like a real ninja, instead of relying on power, she focused on cunning. And doing so was her best chance to kill Sasuke.

You're right, it's possible that there were other windows of time for Sakura to train that we may not have seen, but to learn the Yin Seal techniques, she needs Tsunade to train her. Post-Pain arc, the opportunities for that just aren't there. That's where I see the dilemma. After the Kage Summit Arc, Tsunade comes out of her coma, which she had been in since Naruto's arrival during the Pain fight, and is almost immediately thrown into planning a war. I just can't see how she would have found the time to train Sakura in between, all the while keeping on top of her duties as Hokage and dealing with everything else. I guess Shizune could have trained her, but then we're assuming that Shizune knows how those techniques work and can use them herself.

I don't think there's any specific confirmation that Sakura needs specifically Tsunade in order to train. Maybe Tsunade wrote down the process to master her technique in a scroll, just like it was done with the multi shadow clone jutsu, and Sakura used that scroll to train herself.

At the end what you think and what I think is all just speculation right now.

If we go off of the assumption that Tsunade did train her, but it was before the Pain arc, (let's say when Naruto was training for Rasen-Shurinken), then shouldn't Sakura have mastered those techniques by at least her confrontation with Sasuke? If not , the start of the war? But she doesn't use them at all? Not while facing Zabuza, Hakku, and the Seven Swordsmen? Not while confronting the Jyuubi, Obito, and Madara all at once? And again, if she has the ability to use the Yin Seal techniques, where is the mark on her forehead?

Why didn't she use it against Sasuke? I already explained in my post above.

Why not during the war? Because her job is to heal. There were plenty of other fighters dealing with Zabuza and the swordsmen.

Why not against Obito/Madara/Juubi? The fight is still going on. There hasn't been a need for her do so. Tsunade didn't immediately start using the strength of a hundred against Madara, it was only after she decided to go on the offensive that she did.

As for the mark in the forehead, that the one thing that can make all this theory crumble. Even I'll admit that.

I'll admit that it's possible, but I've always hoped that Kishimoto would refrain from using Ass-Pull no Jutsu on Sakura. A small time skip would be so much better than having to explain, (or ignore), all of these variables.

Izanami, never forget.

[FrenchMyToast]

Quite a feat considering how she's the weakest out of the K9
or at least that's what most people on NB think

I remember somebody on NB saying that Hinata was Top 5 because of Kurama's Chakra. I guess now everybody in the Shinobi Alliance is a Jinchūriki and can use the Kyuubi cloak whenever they want?

Although sometimes I wish it was Sakura who got that hit on Madara, not Lee. That would have been so badass. Just imagine her punches with Kurama's cloak.

As for Sakura's ranking of all the Rookies + Sai, I'd say she's 6th. I'd put Naruto, Sasuke, Neji, Shikamaru, and Sai ahead of her. I may be forgetting someone, but she's definitely not one of the worst like so many people say. Probably a mid-tier fighter. Hopefully that changes and she end up in the Top 3 with Naruto and Sasuke.

[Slextrem]

Quick question: Is the mark on Tsunade's and Mito's forehead just a mark or is it transferable? Because, if that's the case, it's possible for Sakura to obtain the Yin Seal power-up.

Think about it like this: Mito has the mark. Before her death, which happens when Kushina is roughly 12, she transfers it to her granddaughter, Tsunade.

Tsunade didn't have the seal when her brother died, nor when Dan died, so she had to have obtained it sometime after that. This begs the question, how old was Tsunade when Mito died?

Well, we know that Nawaki and Dan both died in the Second Shinobi War, and that Minato's generation was involved in the Third Shinobi War. Before Mito's death, Kushina was sent to Konoha to become the next Jinchuriki. It was a time of peace then, so we can assume that the Second Shinobi War had ended at that point. Going by the events of the timeline, Tsunade obtaining the Yin Seal correlates with Mito's death.

What I don't know is if Mito also knew the techniques that go with the Yin Seal. Were they techniques that Tsunade had developed or had Mito been working on them and passed them down through the seal transfer?

Anyway, now Tsunade is on the brink of death. If it's a transferable mark, it makes sense for her to give it to Sakura, (so long as Sakura manages to get to Tsunade at some point). Also, if the techniques can be passed down along with the mark, Sakura won't necessarily have to learn how to use them...

Thoughts?

I'm going by memory here, so some of my information could be wrong. Please correct me if you notice anything that's out of place.

Edited by Slextrem, 07 April 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Baguette]

I understand I you would feel that way but let me try to explain each situation as best I can.

During the Pain attack Sakura was busy healing people and nowhere near Tsuande. Tsunade had only a split second to do all that she did to protect the village from the Pain nuke as best she could (I actually give her infinite praise for managing to do something like that so quickly). There was no time to call Sakura to aid her if Sakura truly already had the same ability.


She used the kunai because she's aware of how powerful Sasuke has become, and so came up with the best way to kill him as quickly as she could. Sasuke is a genius ninja, and so Sakura knows that eventually he would overpower her, thus her failing to kill him. That's why she used a different approach to have a better chance: deception and death by poison.

Sakura in this instance actually tried to act like a real ninja, instead of relying on power, she focused on cunning. And doing so was her best chance to kill Sasuke.


I don't think there's any specific confirmation that Sakura needs specifically Tsunade in order to train. Maybe Tsunade wrote down the process to master her technique in a scroll, just like it was done with the multi shadow clone jutsu, and Sakura used that scroll to train herself.

At the end what you think and what I think is all just speculation right now.


Why didn't she use it against Sasuke? I already explained in my post above.

Why not during the war? Because her job is to heal. There were plenty of other fighters dealing with Zabuza and the swordsmen.

Why not against Obito/Madara/Juubi? The fight is still going on. There hasn't been a need for her do so. Tsunade didn't immediately start using the strength of a hundred against Madara, it was only after she decided to go on the offensive that she did.

As for the mark in the forehead, that the one thing that can make all this theory crumble. Even I'll admit that.


Izanami, never forget.

To be fair, Izanagi and Izanami are based off of the twin Shinto gods of the same name, Izanami being the goddess of creation and death.
So even if it was an asspull, it was at least a mythologically justified asspull.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well the fact that Sakura kept this up as a member of a family who's not like a clan of powerhouse is impressive because again, she's a real underdog and I like the fact that Naruto finds it impressive is rather...cute. The reason why I think this because he is so in love impressed when she does something while others are like "Cool" even Ino.

[Baguette]

I remember somebody on NB saying that Hinata was Top 5 because of Kurama's Chakra. I guess now everybody in the Shinobi Alliance is a Jinchūriki and can use the Kyuubi cloak whenever they want?

Although sometimes I wish it was Sakura who got that hit on Madara, not Lee. That would have been so badass. Just imagine her punches with Kurama's cloak.

As for Sakura's ranking of all the Rookies + Sai, I'd say she's 6th. I'd put Naruto, Sasuke, Neji, Shikamaru, and Sai ahead of her. I may be forgetting someone, but she's definitely not one of the worst like so many people say. Probably a mid-tier fighter. Hopefully that changes and she end up in the Top 3 with Naruto and Sasuke.

Actual quotes, I kid you not:
"Hinata solos Sakura with 8 Trigrams 64 Palm Guard." <==filler technique
"Hinata's Byakugan is a good counter to an MS user."
"Hinata is currently able to use the Kyuubi Cloak, which counts as her prime, and deflected the Juubi's hand with it. How is it unreasonable to say that she's at Kage level now?"
"Hinata could have possibly beat pain with full intel on abilities."

The general levels of fanboyism in forums are at incomprehensibly high levels.

Edited by Baguette, 07 April 2013 - 04:44 AM.

[ShiningFlan]

I agree and I've always thought of it like that too. That it is transferable and what not. D: Tsunade doesn't have "direct, blood-related" successor so it would make sense to give it to Sakura. (Well there is Shizune ... but It would make more sense to give it to Sakura as she is prospected to surpass Tsunade one day.)
Also, I thought Kishi said something about how Sakura needed to grow up... impling that Sakura will face the pains of losing her sensei and surpassing her like Naruto did.

I also agree with NaruSaku4Life3g. She has "normal" and had like no idea of what pains there were in the world. She chose to be a ninja, knowing that there would be suffering and pain as she went down that path. ~ It's pretty amazing but no one sees that because she hasn't "suffered enough". She's too normal. We see her as a human and underestimate her.

Though, I believe that Ino has a better character than Sakura just because she seems to be more mature towards certain situations. (Ignore this xD LOL It's just a tidbit of my thoughts)

[Shadow1275]

Quick question: Is the mark on Tsunade's and Mito's forehead just a mark or is it transferable? Because, if that's the case, it's possible for Sakura to obtain the Yin Seal power-up.

Think about it like this: Mito has the mark. Before her death, which happens when Kushina is roughly 12, she transfers it to her granddaughter, Tsunade.

Tsunade didn't have the seal when her brother died, nor when Dan died, so she had to have obtained it sometime after that. This begs the question, how old was Tsunade when Mito died?

Well, we know that Nawaki and Dan both died in the Second Shinobi War, and that Minato's generation was involved in the Third Shinobi War. Before Mito's death, Kushina was sent to Konoha to become the next Jinchuriki. It was a time of peace then, so we can assume that the Second Shinobi War had ended at that point. Going by the events of the timeline, Tsunade obtaining the Yin Seal correlates with Mito's death.

What I don't know is if Mito also knew the techniques that go with the Yin Seal. Were they techniques that Tsunade had developed or had Mito been working on them and passed them down through the seal transfer?

Anyway, now Tsunade is on the brink of death. If it's a transferable mark, it makes sense for her to give it to Sakura, (so long as Sakura manages to get to Tsunade at some point). Also, if the techniques can be passed down along with the mark, Sakura won't necessarily have to learn how to use them...

Thoughts?

I'm going by memory here, so some of my information could be wrong. Please correct me if you notice anything that's out of place.

Well there is not a lot of information on the Yin seal besides the fact that it is used to store massive amounts of chakra, is necessary to perform strength of a hundred and creation rebirth, and that using those techniques shortens one own life. Now as for whether the mark is transferable or not, that might be a technique that is part of the Yin seal itself. I also don't think that Sakura would require teaching for those techniques because what they really are is super advanced chakra control which Kakashi mentioned is what Sakura is better at than Naruto and Sasuke. Also, the reason why Sakura has not been able to join the battle is because Tsunade decreed that no Med ninja can enter battles without mastering those three jutsu meaning that if Kishi intends to expand Sakura's role, that would probably be the best way of doing it. Though the only thing that sort of prevents me from buying into the transferable mark theory is that it is a technique. However, what he could do is use a flashback to explain. Tsunade may transfer her remaining Chakra to Sakura meaning that Sakura won't have to store chakra to use the technique.

[redragon88]

To be fair, Izanagi and Izanami are based off of the twin Shinto gods of the same name, Izanami being the goddess of creation and death.
So even if it was an asspull, it was at least a mythologically justified asspull.

That's one awesome description you just came up with.

And yeah, Susanoo, Amateratsu, Tsukuyomi, Izanagi, Izanami, I think they all came from the same story.

@Slextrem

I think one of the old databooks mentioned Tsunade developed the Creation Rebrith jutsu. Although I don't know if developed would mean the same as created. So it's possible that Mito could've had a predecessor technique.

Passing on the diamond seal actually sounds interesting, but I'll try not to get high expectations. You really never know with Kishi.

[Tsubaki]

Quick question: Is the mark on Tsunade's and Mito's forehead just a mark or is it transferable? Because, if that's the case, it's possible for Sakura to obtain the Yin Seal power-up.

Think about it like this: Mito has the mark. Before her death, which happens when Kushina is roughly 12, she transfers it to her granddaughter, Tsunade.

Tsunade didn't have the seal when her brother died, nor when Dan died, so she had to have obtained it sometime after that. This begs the question, how old was Tsunade when Mito died?

Well, we know that Nawaki and Dan both died in the Second Shinobi War, and that Minato's generation was involved in the Third Shinobi War. Before Mito's death, Kushina was sent to Konoha to become the next Jinchuriki. It was a time of peace then, so we can assume that the Second Shinobi War had ended at that point. Going by the events of the timeline, Tsunade obtaining the Yin Seal correlates with Mito's death.

What I don't know is if Mito also knew the techniques that go with the Yin Seal. Were they techniques that Tsunade had developed or had Mito been working on them and passed them down through the seal transfer?

Anyway, now Tsunade is on the brink of death. If it's a transferable mark, it makes sense for her to give it to Sakura, (so long as Sakura manages to get to Tsunade at some point). Also, if the techniques can be passed down along with the mark, Sakura won't necessarily have to learn how to use them...

Thoughts?

I'm going by memory here, so some of my information could be wrong. Please correct me if you notice anything that's out of place.

agree! That's my theory too. Maybe It's a seal mark passed through generations?! The problem is that we don't know too much about this seal besides the fact that both Tsunade and Mito has / had it. I was hopeful to know a little more about Mito and maybe have some new information about it, too bad she wasn't mentioned in the flashback.

The fact is that it would fit perfectly with the situation we are now, Tsunade is dying and Sakura is probably going to where she is... that's the quickest and most plausible way to Sakura get that seal mark now.

Edited by Tsubaki, 07 April 2013 - 04:55 AM.

[Baguette]

Well there is not a lot of information on the Yin seal besides the fact that it is used to store massive amounts of chakra, is necessary to perform strength of a hundred and creation rebirth, and that using those techniques shortens one own life. Now as for whether the mark is transferable or not, that might be a technique that is part of the Yin seal itself. I also don't think that Sakura would require teaching for those techniques because what they really are is super advanced chakra control which Kakashi mentioned is what Sakura is better at than Naruto and Sasuke. Also, the reason why Sakura has not been able to join the battle is because Tsunade decreed that no Med ninja can enter battles without mastering those three jutsu meaning that if Kishi intends to expand Sakura's role, that would probably be the best way of doing it. Though the only thing that sort of prevents me from buying into the transferable mark theory is that it is a technique. However, what he could do is use a flashback to explain. Tsunade may transfer her remaining Chakra to Sakura meaning that Sakura won't have to store chakra to use the technique.

I don't remember too well, but haven't the medics already joined the offensive in recent chapters?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Actual quotes, I kid you not:
"Hinata solos Sakura with 8 Trigrams 64 Palm Guard." <==filler technique
"Hinata's Byakugan is a good counter to an MS user."
"Hinata is currently able to use the Kyuubi Cloak, which counts as her prime, and deflected the Juubi's hand with it. How is it unreasonable to say that she's at Kage level now?"
"Hinata could have possibly beat pain with full intel on abilities."

The general levels of fanboyism in forums are at incomprehensibly high levels.

Unfortunately, this is true. I keep forgetting that the first technique is anime exclusive. Goes to show you that she's a create-a-character character.

[coolcatjas]

"Hinata is currently able to use the Kyuubi Cloak, which counts as her prime, and deflected the Juubi's hand with it. How is it unreasonable to say that she's at Kage level now?"

Pff, imagine if it was Sakura instead. Not only would she have deflected the Juubi's hand, she would've sent it flying a few feet xD
Then who would be at Kage level lol jk

[Baguette]

Pff, imagine if it was Sakura instead. Not only would she have deflected the Juubi's hand, she would've sent it flying a few feet xD
Then who would be at Kage level lol jk

No. Then it would be all,"Lol that's not even her own power. Doesn't count."

[Shadow1275]

I don't remember too well, but haven't the medics already joined the offensive in recent chapters?

Well in any case here are the decrees:

First clause (第一項, Daiikkō): "No medic ninja shall ever stop medical treatment until the lives of their party members have come to an end." (「医療忍者は決して隊員の命尽きるまで治療を諦めてはならない」, "Iryō ninja wa keskittene taiin no inochi tsukeru made chiryō o akiramete wa naranai.")
Second clause (第二項, Dainikō): "No medic ninja shall ever stand on the front lines." (「医療忍者は決して最前線に立ってはならない」, "Iryō ninja wa keskittene saizensen ni tatte wa naranai.")
Third clause (第三項, Daisankō): "No medic ninja shall ever die until they are the last of their platoon." (「医療忍者は決して小隊の中で最後まで死んではならない」, "Iryō ninja wa keskittene shōtai no naka de saigo made shinde wa naranai.")
Fourth clause (第四項, Daiyonkō): "Only those medic ninja who have mastered the Strength of a Hundred Technique of the ninja art Creation Rebirth are permitted to discard the above-mentioned laws." (「忍法創造再生の百豪の術を極めし医療忍者のみ 上記の掟を破棄できる」, "Ninpō Sōzō Saisei no Byakugō no Jutsu o kiwameshi iryō ninja nomi, jōki no okite o haki dekiru.")

Sources:http://www.onemanga.me/naruto_manga/577/2/, http://www.onemanga....to_manga/577/3/

According to the rules anyway, Tsunade[Who made them herself] Is the only Med ninja who is allowed to engage in direct combat. Of course the rules are made to be broken hopefully this rings true for Sakura but as far as I know they haven't. I could be wrong though.

[redragon88]

I don't remember too well, but haven't the medics already joined the offensive in recent chapters?

The medics aren't directly attacking the enemy, which is what Tsunade's rules prohibit. They use their healing on the actual ninja that are attacking in order to prolong the time in which they can use their jutsus.

[Baguette]

The medics aren't directly attacking the enemy, which is what Tsunade's rules prohibit. They use their healing on the actual ninja that are attacking in order to prolong the time in which they can use their jutsus.

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up. Guess Tsunade's words may be foreshadowing something after all

Edited by Baguette, 07 April 2013 - 05:11 AM.