19964 replies to this topic

[StriderC]

Not only that, but people can experience the same kind of situations differently. For example, in comparison to SasuSaku, there may be a woman that suffered an abusive relationship but she forgave the abuser and they lived happily ever after. On the other hand, there may be a woman that experienced the exact same situation but grew to fall out of love with the abuser and eventually left him. Which personal experience is more correct to apply to the manga than the other? How do you decide something like that?

There was a guy that tried arguing to me that Naruto holding hands with Hinata is proof enough of his love for her, since that's how he would show his love to a woman. That's not how it works in fiction. If it's not presented on the page, (in other words, if Naruto doesn't say he loves Hinata), it can't be confirmed to be true. It can be speculated upon, but it can't be confirmed.

Exactly. It can't be confirmed because there's no confirmation from one of the two. It's left up in the air STILL even after all of those panels. Hell, even how the confessions were handled until now seems "unreal" in a sense. Particularly Hinata's unless Kishi gives them an offscreen moment, but it wouldn't make any sense considering Hinata doesn't act like she's already scored the guy, and I'm sure she'd fall back if she found out Naruto loves another girl. Anyway, great point. You can't apply real life all the time to certain things like it's gonna boost the argument. LOL

Sakura Blossoms What you're doing is fine. I just can't see how people can use certain real life experiences, bring them to an argument to back up something like it's gonna make it factual, and roll with it. No, that's not how it works.... Comparing yourself to a character is fine. I'm saying, I feel like people pull from multiple characters and not just one.

I'm a goofball. Naruto's a goofball. I WAS pretty shy earlier in age. Hinata's somewhat shy. I have my lazy moments. Shikamaru's lazy. Etc. That's all I'm saying about that.

[TouKen4Life3g]

She was already in love with Sasuke way before that scene, she was already like that and nothing that happened on part 1 affected her love for Sasuke, when i say that SS had no development is because Sasuke did nothing ot her and neither give her development the only part that had meaning was when she cut off her hair and wasnt even because of Sasuke but because she did that to protect both Naruto and Sasuke because she didnt wanted to be a burden to them the girl who stands behind and it's useless.

THen later on Sakura's confession to Naruto she says things that a woman would fall in love with a guy and despite all this she was still in love with Sasuke, there was nothing justificable for her to still keep feelings for Sasuke when he did nothing to her or added nothing to her character, Naruto basically did everything not Sasuke and her love is stupid because of that, even when her love is bring up it's forced and dull, because the moments when she think about Sasuke are meaningless and totally nonsense.

I know what you mean. I'm just saying that her love didn't increase because of that comment, rather she just loves him.

[HauntedCake]

She was already in love with Sasuke way before that scene, she was already like that and nothing that happened on part 1 affected her love for Sasuke, when i say that SS had no development is because Sasuke did nothing ot her and neither give her development the only part that had meaning was when she cut off her hair and wasnt even because of Sasuke but because she did that to protect both Naruto and Sasuke because she didnt wanted to be a burden to them the girl who stands behind and it's useless.

THen later on Sakura's confession to Naruto she says things that a woman would fall in love with a guy and despite all this she was still in love with Sasuke, there was nothing justificable for her to still keep feelings for Sasuke when he did nothing to her or added nothing to her character, Naruto basically did everything not Sasuke and her love is stupid because of that, even when her love is bring up it's forced and dull, because the moments when she think about Sasuke are meaningless and totally nonsense.

Was it a filler when in the anmie it shows a young Sakura pre- academy confessing her love out in public? Episode 240-250 ish?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Was it a filler when in the anmie it shows a young Sakura pre- academy confessing her love out in public? Episode 240-250 ish?

You mean the one she told others that she loves Sasuke and they were like "Yeah yeah,. What else is new?" Not exact quote but yeah. If you mean that, then yes, though it happened in part 1. Anime just brought it back.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 06 April 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[Sakura_Blossom]

Exactly. It can't be confirmed because there's no confirmation from one of the two. It's left up in the air STILL even after all of those panels. Hell, even how the confessions were handled until now seems "unreal" in a sense. Particularly Hinata's unless Kishi gives them an offscreen moment, but it wouldn't make any sense considering Hinata doesn't act like she's already scored the guy, and I'm sure she'd fall back if she found out Naruto loves another girl. Anyway, great point. You can't apply real life all the time to certain things like it's gonna boost the argument. LOL

Sakura Blossoms What you're doing is fine. I just can't see how people can use certain real life experiences, bring them to an argument to back up something like it's gonna make it factual, and roll with it. No, that's not how it works.... Comparing yourself to a character is fine. I'm saying, I feel like people pull from multiple characters and not just one.

I'm a goofball. Naruto's a goofball. I WAS pretty shy earlier in age. Hinata's somewhat shy. I have my lazy moments. Shikamaru's lazy. Etc. That's all I'm saying about that.

Oh, I see . Just felt the need to explain since I usually throw these things into reality to try to have some empathy.

[Slextrem]

Was it a filler when in the anmie it shows a young Sakura pre- academy confessing her love out in public? Episode 240-250 ish?

That moment occurs in the manga, I believe in a flashback during Ino's fight with Sakura.

[TouKen4Life3g]

That moment occurs in the manga, I believe in a flashback during Ino's fight with Sakura.

Oh I was right. Yeah, I think that moment was really made to make Ino aware of that and then whatever time later, their rivalry began.

[StriderC]

Oh, I see . Just felt the need to explain since I usually throw these things into reality to try to have some empathy.

Haha, no biggie.

[Dkey]

Not only that, but people can experience the same kind of situations differently. For example, in comparison to SasuSaku, there may be a woman that suffered an abusive relationship but she forgave the abuser and they lived happily ever after. On the other hand, there may be a woman that experienced the exact same situation but grew to fall out of love with the abuser and eventually left him. Which personal experience is more correct to apply to the manga than the other? How do you decide something like that?

There was a guy that tried arguing to me that Naruto holding hands with Hinata is proof enough of his love for her, since that's how he would show his love to a woman. That's not how it works in fiction. If it's not presented on the page, (in other words, if Naruto doesn't say he loves Hinata), it can't be confirmed to be true. It can be speculated upon, but it can't be confirmed.

All those examples are valid. In real life you could be surprised of the things some people are capable of forgetting.


But this being fiction the writer makes it so that some characters can't be forgiven. Now Sasuke is different and Kishi pretty much took every villain in this manga and gave them some redeeming quality but I think the story would be compromised if Sakura decides to forgive Sasuke. Well she can forgive him for murdering him but not enough to go ahead and form a couple with him. Also the thing with Sakura now, if someone asks who she loves she might think of Sasuke ( proof in 540 ) but she worries more about Naruto, trusts Naruto to the point that the comment Naruto made regarding the killing each other didn't stop her to have hope again. she even decided to kill Sasuke because she wanted to protect Naruto.

When we first encountered Sakura and Hinata we found out about their infatuation with Sasuke and Naruto respectively but as the story progressed we have seen reasons that this 2 girls need to get over their infatuation with the boys they like so they can develop into what they are meant to do.

Hinata as clan leader and Sakura needs to surpass Tsunade but if they don't do what I previously wrote they might end up dead.

Edited by Dkey, 06 April 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[FoolishYoungling]

When we first encountered Sakura and Hinata we found out about their infatuation with Sasuke and Naruto respectively but as the story progressed we have seen reasons that this 2 girls need to get over their infatuation with the boys they like so they can develop into what they are meant to do.

So true

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

All those examples are valid. In real life you could be surprised of the things some people are capable of forgetting.


But this being fiction the writer makes it so that some characters can't be forgiven. Now Sasuke is different and Kishi pretty much took every villain in this manga and gave them some redeeming quality but I think the story would be compromised if Sakura decides to forgive Sasuke. Well she can forgive him for murdering him but not enough to go ahead and form a couple with him. Also the thing with Sakura now, if someone asks who she loves she might think of Sasuke ( proof in 540 ) but she worries more about Naruto, trusts Naruto to the point that the comment Naruto made regarding the killing each other didn't stop her to have hope again. she even decided to kill Sasuke because she wanted to protect Naruto.

When we first encountered Sakura and Hinata we found out about their infatuation with Sasuke and Naruto respectively but as the story progressed we have seen reasons that this 2 girls need to get over their infatuation with the boys they like so they can develop into what they are meant to do.

Hinata as clan leader and Sakura needs to surpass Tsunade but if they don't do what I previously wrote they might end up dead.

Actually srsly Hinata does not have to move on from Naruto, i say is that she cant put Naruto on the 1st place when she has other more important things and if she moves on from Naruto is because he ended up with Sakura and moreover about Sakura she has to move on from Sasuke not just because it's abusive but because he didnt added anything to her character it's a love without reason it's a forced love, Sasuke never give anything to her, example Sakura supported sasuke but Sasuke supported her? Sasuke never encouraged her, or was at her side the list is long.
With Naruto she realized all the things he've done to her and still wasnt in love with him she was in love with a guy that did completely the opposite that Naruto did to her.

[Baguette]

Actually srsly Hinata does not have to move on from Naruto, i say is that she cant put Naruto on the 1st place when she has other more important things and if she moves on from Naruto is because he ended up with Sakura and moreover about Sakura she has to move on from Sasuke not just because it's abusive but because he didnt added anything to her character it's a love without reason it's a forced love, Sasuke never give anything to her, example Sakura supported sasuke but Sasuke supported her? Sasuke never encouraged her, or was at her side the list is long.
With Naruto she realized all the things he've done to her and still wasnt in love with him she was in love with a guy that did completely the opposite that Naruto did to her.

Well if Hinata doesn't come to terms with her feelings for Naruto, and only gives up because Naruto ends up with Sakura, doesn't that leave her character development a bit...unsatisfying?

[KnS]

There was a guy that tried arguing to me that Naruto holding hands with Hinata is proof enough of his love for her, since that's how he would show his love to a woman. That's not how it works in fiction. If it's not presented on the page, (in other words, if Naruto doesn't say he loves Hinata), it can't be confirmed to be true. It can be speculated upon, but it can't be confirmed.

That's not how it works in real life, either. Example:

I was working for Nike on September 11, 2001. I shared a big office with a software developer, and I had come in early that day to make my weekly status call to my European counterpart at the Nike HQ in The Netherlands. I couldn't get my call through because all the circuits were jammed. My software developer office mate showed up, white-faced and shaken, and he realized I didn't know what had happened. When he told me, we walked over to the Mia Hamm building and watched the World Trade Center towers fall, over and over again, on the huge wall of televisions.

A few hours later, everyone who was on campus at the time was asked to meet out on Cristiano Ronaldo field. Employees, contractors, visitors, children in the daycare center -- everyone -- gathered on the field. As a sign of patriotism and solidarity with the rest of the nation, we were asked to hold the hand of the person next to us. So my software developer buddy and I stood there -- for all intents and purposes -- giving each other strength to face an enemy by holding hands.

Did that mean we were in love with each other? Even if I'd had a secret crush on my colleague, or he'd had one on me, would it have meant love at that moment? Of course not.

Context -- whether in real life or fiction -- is everything. Holding hands might have meant something more to Hinata privately, because of her crush, but the action itself at that moment didn't mean love -- and it certainly didn't mean love to Naruto.

Just like it was with my colleague and I on the field at Nike that day, Naruto and Hinata holding hands was about solidarity and giving each other strength -- in Naruto's case giving strength literally -- to face an enemy.

[CynMichi]

That's not how it works in real life, either. Example:

I was working for Nike on September 11, 2001. I shared a big office with a software developer, and I had come in early that day to make my weekly status call to my European counterpart at the Nike HQ in The Netherlands. I couldn't get my call through because all the circuits were jammed. My software developer office mate showed up, white-faced and shaken, and he realized I didn't know what had happened. When he told me, we walked over to the Mia Hamm building and watched the World Trade Center towers fall, over and over again, on the huge wall of televisions.

A few hours later, everyone who was on campus at the time was asked to meet out on Cristiano Ronaldo field. Employees, contractors, visitors, children in the daycare center -- everyone -- gathered on the field. As a sign of patriotism and solidarity with the rest of the nation, we were asked to hold the hand of the person next to us. So my software developer buddy and I stood there -- for all intents and purposes -- giving each other strength to face an enemy by holding hands.

Did that mean we were in love with each other? Even if I'd had a secret crush on my colleague, or he'd had one on me, would it have meant love at that moment? Of course not.

Context -- whether in real life or fiction -- is everything. Holding hands might have meant something more to Hinata privately, because of her crush, but the action itself at that moment didn't mean love -- and it certainly didn't mean love to Naruto.

Just like it was with my colleague and I on the field at Nike that day, Naruto and Hinata holding hands was about solidarity and giving each other strength -- in Naruto's case giving strength literally -- to face an enemy.

This ...exactly this ....especially the bolded ^

[Dkey]

Actually srsly Hinata does not have to move on from Naruto, i say is that she cant put Naruto on the 1st place when she has other more important things and if she moves on from Naruto is because he ended up with Sakura and moreover about Sakura she has to move on from Sasuke not just because it's abusive but because he didnt added anything to her character it's a love without reason it's a forced love, Sasuke never give anything to her, example Sakura supported sasuke but Sasuke supported her? Sasuke never encouraged her, or was at her side the list is long.
With Naruto she realized all the things he've done to her and still wasnt in love with him she was in love with a guy that did completely the opposite that Naruto did to her.

Pretty much yes, only Sakura needs to move on from Sasuke but 540 showed us that the only double murder attempt from Sasuke wasn't enough. Karin seemed to move on from Sasuke after the team 7 reunion so why didn't Sakura?
Anyway it seems there needs to be another trigger because her changing her feelings for Sasuke won't change offscreen so I hope the trigger won't be Sasuke telling her AGAIN that she is annoying.

Also about the male SS shippers. There's one even in the story. His name is Naruto

Edited by Dkey, 06 April 2013 - 08:09 PM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

Pretty much yes, only Sakura needs to move on from Sasuke but 540 showed us that the only double murder attempt from Sasuke wasn't enough. Karin seemed to move on from Sasuke after the team 7 reunion so why didn't Sakura?
Anyway it seems there needs to be another trigger because her changing her feelings for Sasuke won't change offscreen so I hope the trigger won't be Sasuke telling her AGAIN that she is annoying.

Also about the male SS shippers. There's one even in the story. His name is Naruto

I think I adressed this once. Naruto doesn`t actually ship SS. He just wants Sakura to be happy and have a chance with Sasuke. He would like for her to make a choice between them with both equally available. To him its a win win scenario. If she chooses him hes happy as a rainbow, if not she`s happy which makes him happy.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I think I adressed this once. Naruto doesn`t actually ship SS. He just wants Sakura to be happy and have a chance with Sasuke. He would like for her to make a choice between them with both equally available. To him its a win win scenario. If she chooses him hes happy as a rainbow, if not she`s happy which makes him happy.

I second this somewhat. Naruto is more pro-Sakura fan to the point he wants her to be as happy as possible yet he wants to confess his feelings to her. It's not really SS fan if he's still going to confess. Again, when he was asked if he confessed already, he doesn't blame SS, rather it's himself. Story like that is almost 100% guaranteed that he will get that victory, expected or not. That's a reward for doing what's right.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 06 April 2013 - 08:20 PM.

[Dkey]

I think I adressed this once. Naruto doesn`t actually ship SS. He just wants Sakura to be happy and have a chance with Sasuke. He would like for her to make a choice between them with both equally available. To him its a win win scenario. If she chooses him hes happy as a rainbow, if not she`s happy which makes him happy.

Well ofc he isn't a SS shipper and what you said is right. Anyway I wonder if Naruto will be able to read Sakura when she will stop loving Sasuke, now that he can sense other people's emotions and intentions.

[Slextrem]

That's not how it works in real life, either. Example:

I was working for Nike on September 11, 2001. I shared a big office with a software developer, and I had come in early that day to make my weekly status call to my European counterpart at the Nike HQ in The Netherlands. I couldn't get my call through because all the circuits were jammed. My software developer office mate showed up, white-faced and shaken, and he realized I didn't know what had happened. When he told me, we walked over to the Mia Hamm building and watched the World Trade Center towers fall, over and over again, on the huge wall of televisions.

A few hours later, everyone who was on campus at the time was asked to meet out on Cristiano Ronaldo field. Employees, contractors, visitors, children in the daycare center -- everyone -- gathered on the field. As a sign of patriotism and solidarity with the rest of the nation, we were asked to hold the hand of the person next to us. So my software developer buddy and I stood there -- for all intents and purposes -- giving each other strength to face an enemy by holding hands.

Did that mean we were in love with each other? Even if I'd had a secret crush on my colleague, or he'd had one on me, would it have meant love at that moment? Of course not.

Context -- whether in real life or fiction -- is everything. Holding hands might have meant something more to Hinata privately, because of her crush, but the action itself at that moment didn't mean love -- and it certainly didn't mean love to Naruto.

Just like it was with my colleague and I on the field at Nike that day, Naruto and Hinata holding hands was about solidarity and giving each other strength -- in Naruto's case giving strength literally -- to face an enemy.

You're very right. Context is everything.

My point was more that, even if the situation could be considered romantic, not all men and women express love through physical actions. While it's true that some people are more comfortable leaving subtle hints of their feelings, it's also true that some people prefer to voice their feelings so that there are no misunderstandings. I was trying to explain that to him, but he brushed me off because I'm a woman - there was no way that I could understand what he meant.

I know plenty of men that prefer to express themselves through words rather than actions, which is what makes his argument, (or any argument based on real-life experiences), fall apart. Everyone is different. Our interpretations of the same situations can be, and often are, different. As well as our experiences in life, no matter how similar they may be. That's why those arguments shouldn't be applied to the manga.

How does one know that a character they associate with would act the exact same way that they expect them to? How can they come to that conclusion?

[Branden]

Sasuke is a dangerous person who's tried to kill Sakura and does nothing but bring Sakura pain and misery. Why on earth would Naruto ship SasuSaku? If he cares about her happiness and well being then he would be opposed to it.