9679 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

Recently ive heard lot of peuple saying Yahiko/Konan is a parallel to Sasusaku. They say Yahiko=Sasuke, Konan=Sakura, Nagato=Naruto and after seeing this;

picture --Click here to view--

i can't really say otherwise that Nagato=/=Naruto. What you guys think?

The only thing I see in that cover is the paralel of master and student. Jiraiya had two students which according to the prohecy of the great elder toad sage that one of them will save the world and bring peace while the other will bring destruction. The cover itself is explaining that clearly.

But of course if there are people from certain fandoms who are desperate for Kishi to give them solid evidence of their pairing to become canon in the manga don't know how to interpret a simple volume cover and instead they believe that just because Naruto stood side by side with Nagato then they will obviously say" Naruto is next to Nagato so that means he's just like him that means Yahiko is Sasuke and Konan is Sakura yay SS is canon" (I am not bashing here just stating a fact).

This is just like the KM paralel to NS and how those certain fans were comparing Kushina to Hinata and Naruto to Minato or the other way around. Naruto as Kushina and Minato as Hinata. Now the same thing is happening with YK with SS.

Edited by Gravenimage, 29 September 2010 - 06:27 PM.

[catsi563]

One thing to keep in mind about parallels also is that you have to be aware of the support each parallel has.

Examples include the Sannin parallel, the MinaKushina and NaruSaku Parallels. All of these have strong connections which can be easilly demonstrated.

The thing to be aware of is parallels which require the swamp gas explanation. This is the explantion agent K gives in Men In Black to the farm lady about the UFO crash.

Light from venus refracted off some swamp gas and reflected off a passing weather balloon which lead to the giant hole in your yard.

any parallel which takes more then 3 conenctions or a single tenuous connection ((OMG Sasuke smelled a flower hes obviouslt thinking of Sakura because Sakuras name means cherry blossom so SasuSaku canon ZOMG!!)) must be treated with scepticism at best and debunked quickly at worst.

Edited by catsi563, 29 September 2010 - 06:58 PM.

[Quinny52]

Never imagined I'd come across a Men in Black quote/reference on here, but there's always a first I guess.

But yeah, parallels that are overly complex (such as catsi's example) are usually not parallels in the first place (or at least not intended to be). The cover of 48 is not suppose to be a parallel of anything pairing related, but meant to show two individuals who had the same mentor, and whom originally had the same goal. And while the Ame orphans do share similar traits with Team 7, this is not a case of one character representing the respective Team 7 member; like Nagato = Naruto, Yahiko = Sasuke, and Konan = Sakura, it isn't that straightforward. Fact is Nagato and Yahiko's personalities can both be considered combinations of Naruto AND Sasuke's, so the idea that the hints of Yahiko and Konan's mutual affections and Nagato basically giving them his blessings is suppose to imply a SasuSaku ending sounds like something that could ultimately only come from the likes of SS/Anti NS shippers.

[maliousdei]

while I can understand Nagato's connection to sasuke and naruto, I personally believe that Yahiko is all Naruto. His cockiness, natural leadership abilities, refusal to admit that he sucked at something, his desire to protect everyone he cares about, desire to be at the top, willingness to sacrifice himself for his comrades, and his loud persona are completely naruto. Plus, I don't really think Yahiko was a vengeful kind of person.

[Quinny52]

^ Actually he was. In a flashback of when they were kids, Yahiko expressed a deep loathing for the neighbouring nations because of the hardships their conflicts had caused to the land of rain. He said he wanted to make the great nations feel the same pain that they had all felt, indicating a true 'eye-for-an-eye' philosophy. It was this philosphy that Nagato inherited upon Yahiko's death and his apparant mental collapse which came as a result.

Edited by Quinny52, 29 September 2010 - 08:46 PM.

[maliousdei]

point taken, but I still don't think that's enough to qualify him as a sasuke parallel considering yahiko has more of naruto's traits over sasuke's. And from what you have said, the one who qualifies as sasuke more is nagato since he had a mental vengeful breakdown at the loss of someone he cared about. and I by vengeful, I mean completely changing of personality breakdown as opposed to naruto's one time want for revenge where he stayed the same and never took it.

Edited by maliousdei, 29 September 2010 - 08:55 PM.

[ahmed]

The problem with this, though, is that this couples her confession with the part she was lying about: not caring about Sasuke. Thus, to both the reader, and Naruto, her confession becomes a huge question mark. If she was lying about one thing, she could be lying about the other. The conclusion is that we don't know how Sakura truly feels about Naruto.

i can get from how you speak that you say she may be lying
are you trying to say that?

I agree. Sakura did want to protect Naruto, both physically and emotionally. At the same time she was risking hurting him emotionally. Mostly, I think, she was concerned about his life.

how she was risking hurting him emotionally?
again what you are trying to say?

sorry if i misunderstood you,correct me if i am wrong

and for me:
-I only have to wait to see how she truly feels about Sasuke after meeting him
-It is pretty clear to me how she feels about Naruto ( specially when she was talking while hugging him and blushes)

about Yahiko and Konan:
lol.the other fandom also trying parallel to SS
i think Yahiko is more like to Naruto just like Mali said and Nagato is more like sasuke
while Konan is n't like sakura

Edited by ahmed, 29 September 2010 - 09:30 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

From what you've say whenever Sakura is brought up, you must assume he doesn't care about Sakura- it's always the most negative interpretation of Sakura in any scenes you can possibly come up with, and you argue fiercely against even a slightly more positive interpretation. Look what you said above and replace Hinata with Sakura. If you don't think he would make a very slightly negative allusion to Hinata, one that was supported by Naruto's own opinion of Hinata that he'd had from their Academy days by the way, then you have to reject any negative interpretation of Sakura.

Prove it. How am I so entirely negative towards Sakura? I brought up both positive and negative points towards her character. Look at your posts. You try to justify every little thing she does, rather than seeing her as a human who does make mistakes. I have never seen you post anything against Sakura. Rather, you go out of your way to post negative things towards almost any other character but Sakura. So who is in the wrong here? Sakura is my favorite character because she is so relatable. She makes mistakes, but she always keeps trying to do better.

Also, I never said Kishi said anything negative towards Sakura either. I maintain he cares about his characters.

Hinata is on par with Rock Lee as the type of support character she is and Kishimoto certainly doesn't avoid using him for a similar minor mocking. Kishimoto has even already done a minor mocking of Hinata that's along the same level in part 2 when she faints when Naruto comes up to her upon his return to Konoha. He just balances it with more constructive moments so they don't become mere joke characters.

That isn't mocking. That is called comedic relief.

@ahmed
Because her confession of love was coupled with her lie about giving up on Sasuke, the reader could interpret it as lying. However, I personally believe the answer to 'is she lying?' is much more complicated than that. I don't think she was ready to confess at that point, so in a way it is untrue, since a confession should be done when you are sure of yourself. At the same time, I do believe she has been gradually falling for Naruto. This is complicated by her lingering feelings for Sasuke. So, does she love Naruto? I believe she does, but she also isn't completely over Sasuke.

Sakura was hurting Naruto emotionally because she was risking his hatred of her for killing Sasuke. She apologized inwardly to him because she tricked him, which once he found out what happened he would be upset and hurt.

Edited by Miss Soupy, 29 September 2010 - 09:36 PM.

[Quinny52]

@ Malioudei - True, Yahiko's death was a mental blow to Nagato, but when he did adopt his friend's philosophy, it was because he believed that his original ideals for peace were just naive, and that there was no real way to break the cycle of hatred (and I suspect this change came because he partially blamed himself for Yahiko's death due to his panic and indecisiveness). But while he did adopt this philosophy of mutual pain, he did so believing his traumas had enlightened him, and so it would to the rest of the world. So while twisted, his goal and his heart were in the right place, he still sought for peace but went down a different path to get to it before Naruto brought him back to the light. This differs from Sasuke's goal, which is completely personal and utterly selfish, wanting to destroy all those he feels have wronged him and his family. He doesn't care about the tailed beasts or the reasons behind this upcoming war, he just wants those he believes caused his grief to feel his wrath.

[maliousdei]

understood, your point is made. my main point i was making earlier however was more of how yahiko was more like naruto rather than sasuke. lest we forget, naruto himself has adapted yahiko's mutual understanding ideal since his encounter with pain. The point I was making was of how yahikio's characteristics fit naruto better then they do sasuke. and while I will admit yahiko had a slightly vengeful philosophy, this ideal wasn't what was guiding him to live like with sasuke, it was his desire to protect everyone he cared about and to be the new god, (AKA be at the top) that guided him. like naruto.

[Miss Soupy]

Could you say that Yahiko's slight dark side is comparable to Naruto's? It seemed like Yahiko changed from that mindset given the recent chapter, and not even Naruto was without a dark side. I don't know, to me Yahiko seemed like a carbon copy of Naruto, both in appearance and attitude. Yahiko didn't have any special abilities like Nagato, yet he was the most boastful about making a difference. But that doesn't mean I think Yagato is like Sasuke XD Naruto is also comparable to him too, just...I thought in the end he was more like Yahiko. Nagato seems like what Sasuke could have been like had his clan never been murdered.

Sasuke is comparable to...Orochimaru in that his actions are completely selfish?

[maliousdei]

i know, and naruto's dark side is slightly comparable to yahiko's in a sense. we have seen how angry, mean, and stubborn naruto can be to people. but again, when he showed his darker side to his comrades, it gave them a better sense of understanding to their own naive, narrow-minded behavior and helped them grow. when yahiko showed his darker side to jiraiya, it gave him a better form of understanding when it came to changing the world and of other people's sufferings. so even with they are showing their dark side, they change people.

BTW, I don't think you can really say they have much of a "Dark" dark side when you consider their characteristics and goals.

Edited by maliousdei, 30 September 2010 - 12:55 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

^ yeah, I used the term 'dark' very lightly XD

[ciardha]

I brought up both positive and negative points towards her character.

To quote you- Prove it. I sure never have seen you do that about Sakura, it's always the most negative interpretation you can come up with. "She's lying", continuing to believe the debunked (and debunked by a sasunaru shipper who doesn't even like Sakura that much, no less) anti-Sakura "summary" of the Jump Festa interview, etc...

Never mind Kishimoto himself said she was not lying about her being in love with Naruto, and Naruto himself did not say she was consciously lying about anything, but you are bound and determined to continue to say she was consciously lying about everything. Naruto said she was trying to delude herself into believing she had absolutely no feelings left about Sasuke. I point out to you as well that in chapter 470 Naruto does not deny it, when Sakura angrily insists she is in love with Naruto- his temper goes away and his expression shows he believes her. It's only when she brings up Sasuke and the POAL that they start arguing again. When Sai emphasizes Sakura has fallen in love with Naruto and that her actions were all for his sake, in 474, again the look is acceptance. It's her change in her feelings about Sasuke and her willingness to try to kill him to keep him from harming Naruto and losing whatever was left of the Sasuke she had once adored that he first gets angry about then causes him to pass out about. The only person who says he loves Sasuke in those battle chapters is Kakashi, and yeah his actions show the least acceptance of seeing Sasuke as he is. He continues to try to reason with a person that has had a psychotic break with reality and relishes the thought of killing him. Sakura is the member of Team 7 who faced the reality of who Sasuke is , first.

The message of Sakura's inability to go through with it was that- you can't just shut down completely memories of something like her girlish adoration of Sasuke and much more fresh a break- the team mate bond- (she was only just starting to realize she had to break that too), that easily. Is her romantic love for Sasuke in the past- absolutely, Sakura says so, Sai states she's moved on, etc... but Kishimoto has shown again and again what a powerful effect memories with a strong emotional connection has. Look at even the Sanin, all those years of trying to put away that bond, but even they were not able to completely. Even after their big battle neither Tsunade or Jiraiya make another attempt to take down Orochimaru, and Orochimaru as well never makes another move against Konoha once he has Sasuke. Heck, he's the one who stops Sasuke from attempting to kill Naruto and Sakura (and Sasuke sneers at his reason, knowing it's a cover) Orochimaru outright admits to Tsunade he has no desire to kill her, and his motivation to kill Naruto is actually his twisted way of wanting to save Tsunade from what could happen if the Kyuubi got loose. Jiraiya and Tsunade even mourn Orochimaru a bit after his death, and talk to each other about fond memories of when they were kids of the three of them as Hiruzen's students. Consider the Sanin and how even they couldn't fully break that emotional bond and then think about Sakura's struggle- she faced reality about Sasuke a lot quicker than even Tsunade did about Orochimaru and Tsunade never had feelings for Orochimaru like that, feelings that while Sakura could move on from them, starting at 13, the powerful memories remain.

In real life it's like a girl who had feelings for a guy back in high school, then finds out he turned into a serial killer later on. Her feelings have long since moved on, but the memories of the young guy she had a thing for are still there, and it's a struggle for her to deal with how that boy she adored became a monster. She knows he is a monster now and believes he deserves the death penalty, but carries those memories of the boy she once cared for in her mind. It's a painful thing for her to deal with.

I look at what Kishimoto has consistently shown about Sakura in the manga and take it from there. Taking overly negative slants on everything Sakura does contradicts everything Kishimoto has shown you about Sakura in the manga- even at the beginning of part 1.

Edited by ciardha, 30 September 2010 - 03:54 AM.

[Cloud]

To quote you- Prove it. I sure never have seen you do that about Sakura, it's always the most negative interpretation you can come up with. "She's lying", continuing to believe the debunked (and debunked by a sasunaru shipper who doesn't even like Sakura that much, no less) anti-Sakura "summary" of the Jump Festa interview, etc...

Christ.

Soupy's Post on Sakura

Honestly. I could find more posts.. but in this one, she doesn't give a negative interpretation of Sakura's character.

But hey! You ignore everything we post anyways... so what's the point?

[holy_demon]

Never mind Kishimoto himself said she was not lying about her being in love with Naruto, and Naruto himself did not say she was consciously lying about anything, but you are bound and determined to continue to say she was consciously lying about everything.

Im not sure if I've heard that from any of Kishimoto's interview. I'm sure that such statement could cause a huge uproar among the fandom.

Personally, I don't link the parallel of NaruSaku with YahikoKonan. True that Yahiko resembles Naruto a lot, and that Nagato represents what Sasuke could have been if Naruto was dead (Nagato was actually an avenger, seeking revenge for both Yahiko and his parents). However, I can't see Konan as parallel to Sakura; Konan was much calmer, more accepting, and more calculating. Sakura, on the other hand, was very hot-tempered, violent and short-sighted (lately Sakura oddly acted a lot like Naruto part 1, just to add)

On the topic of the confession, I find it weird that Sakura suddenly threw out the confession like that. She apparently had no obligation, nor urgency to do that. She just needed to tell Naruto everyone's decision of killing Sasuke, according to the plan(in the end, she didn't). Even more, she could have gone to Sasuke first, and later come back to Naruto. I can't shake the feeling that Sakura was trying to imply something to Naruto, and Naruto failed to catch it. After all, If Sakura is just going to fake that confession, why tell that in the first place ?

[jason voorhees]

Cloud you had to go back to july an then its barly even positive

[ciardha]

Im not sure if I've heard that from any of Kishimoto's interview. I'm sure that such statement could cause a huge uproar among the fandom.

Oh believe me, it has, and he did- at the last Jump Festa. He was expressing irritation at the rabid anti Sakura letters he was getting from readers saying "Sakura was lying,etc.." when she made her love confession to Naruto in 469, Kishimoto says- "On the contrary in that scene, I was writing her as an honest and surprisingly determined girl". He was very defensive of Sakura and does not like at all that some very vocal fans are writing such nasty things to him about Sakura.

[Codus N]

Apologize for going a little off-topic here, but I remember that you had the theory of Naruto going off to the final battle while Sakura is back in Konoha awaiting his return because she is apparently pregnant (which Naruto doesn't know yet, of course). I think, to be honest, this would fit ShikamaruxTemari better than it does NS. Or KibaHina. I could see shikamaru going off into one of the major decisive battles as Temari waits in Suna while being pregnant and Shikamaru comes home safely, thus surpassing Asuma. AsuKure didn't have a send-off but ShikaTema will. Temari will probably act the same way Sakura would, saying something like "If you die, then I'll just drag your body here and kill you again." and ends with a small kiss to remind him of her.

[ciardha]

I could see shikamaru going off into one of the major decisive battles as Temari waits in Suna while being pregnant and Shikamaru comes home safely, thus surpassing Asuma. AsuKure didn't have a send-off but ShikaTema will. Temari will probably act the same way Sakura would, saying something like "If you die, then I'll just drag your body here and kill you again." and ends with a small kiss to remind him of her.

Such a statement I think would definitely fit Temari's personality. Sakura would more likely say, "Don't do something stupid!" and bonk his head, then throw her arms around Naruto and hug him tight. As far as Shikatema, unfortunately Kishimoto has said he won't be showing any romantic scenes for him- doesn't mean Shikatema won't happen, but more than likely means that anything will play out "off panel" - just as Asukure did.