19964 replies to this topic

[Dalton.T.R]

Not to mention, he is really kind of a jerk...

Jerk? If someone comes up to me and tries to kill me...I think the word "Jerk" might be the last thing I'm calling that person.

[Branden]

Jerk? If someone comes up to me and tries to kill me...I think the word "Jerk" might be the last thing I'm calling that person.

That's not how that happened at all. Sasuke is recovering from a fight with danzo and then Sakura shows up, gives her speech, and walks towards Sasuke with a poisoned Kunai. She stops right next to Sasuke and pauses. If that isn't suspicious I don't know what is. Sasuke was defending himself against an assassin, I hate how people always give him crap for that. If somebody was about to try and kill you, wouldn't you defend yourself by then trying to kill them? Sasuke's goal in life may be considered evil, but it is justified. He commits himself 100% to his goal, something I can respect. I wouldn't be able to comprehend the things he went through, and I'm almost certain nobody on this earth can. His scenario is so unique that for all we know this could be a perfectly normal response. We cannot judge his actions because we do not now, nor will we ever be able to understand him and his pain. Sasuke is a magnificent character, brilliantly made in this series and calling him a "Jerk" is completely out of place.

Edited by Branden, 19 June 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[redragon88]

That's not how that happened at all. Sasuke is recovering from a fight with danzo and then Sakura shows up, gives her speech, and walks towards Sasuke with a poisoned Kunai. She stops right next to Sasuke and pauses. If that isn't suspicious I don't know what is. Sasuke was defending himself against an assassin, I hate how people always give him crap for that. If somebody was about to try and kill you, wouldn't you defend yourself by then trying to kill them? Sasuke's goal in life may be considered evil, but it is justified. He commits himself 100% to his goal, something I can respect. I wouldn't be able to comprehend the things he went through, and I'm almost certain nobody on this earth can. His scenario is so unique that for all we know this could be a perfectly normal response. We cannot judge his actions because we do not now, nor will we ever be able to understand him and his pain. Sasuke is a magnificent character, brilliantly made in this series and calling him a "Jerk" is completely out of place.

Are you forgetting what is goal is?

He wants to obliterate the entire village of Konoha. Is not about just killing specific people, he wants to kill them all. He wants to murder them to the very last innocent baby. We all heard him say he wants to kill all of Konoha by the end of the Team 7 reunion so you can't pretend it isn't true.

I don't know what kind of view you have of his goal but doing what I just described above is never justified, never.

You're saying nobody on this earth can comprehend what he's going through? Are you freaking kidding me. There're thousands of people in this planet who have surely been involved in tragedies ten times worse than what happened to Sasuke. Please don't insult their suffering by saying that.

You say we can't judge his actions, yes we can. He wants to kill the elders who instructed the death of his clan, that's comprehensible. He wants to kill people who didn't even know of the situation, that is no acceptable. Just because some people can't understand Sasuke's suffering doesn't mean they don't have the right to be angry with Sasuke for stating such a terrible final goal of eliminating all of Konoha.

Also, this is not a normal response. You don't go trying to kill people who had nothing to do with your suffering. I understand if he wants to kill the upper echelons in Konoha since they were the one who coordinated the Uchiha massacre, that I get, but all of the rest is ridiculous. Sasuke has no justification for them, his mind has been twisted so much with the concept of vengeance that he's desperately trying to justify the killing of innocent people. Hate to break it to you be that's the mentality of some terrorists.

Sasuke is a magnificent character, in that we can agree, but the reason for it is not because he's some awesome guy who determined to achieve his goal. The reason he's awesome is precisely because he's a jerk. Not just a jerk actually, is because we can witness first hand his downfall to this mentally unstable character who's become obsessed with the concept of revenge.

You're doing what I imagine most people who ship Sasuke with Sakura do. They romanticize Sasuke, for what reasons I do not know, maybe it's because he was originally the cool guy so people have problems realizing how much of a twisted character he has become. They still imagine Sasuke as some sort of tragic hero that will be saved by Sakura's love, this is not that kind of manga. Sasuke has gone down to twisted villainy that can only be redeemed by the efforts of Naruto. I'm not saying that's how you think, I'm just saying that your romanticism of Sasuke sounds similar to what I think SS shippers might do.

You're not supposed to look up to him. You're not supposed to admire that he wants to pursue a goal. You're supposed to look at him with pity for what the ninja world has forced him to become and hope Naruto can break that terrible curse.

Edited by redragon88, 19 June 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[Namaenash]

That's not how that happened at all. Sasuke is recovering from a fight with danzo and then Sakura shows up, gives her speech, and walks towards Sasuke with a poisoned Kunai. She stops right next to Sasuke and pauses. If that isn't suspicious I don't know what is. Sasuke was defending himself against an assassin, I hate how people always give him crap for that. If somebody was about to try and kill you, wouldn't you defend yourself by then trying to kill them? Sasuke's goal in life may be considered evil, but it is justified.

Erm, no. Sasuke didn't defend himself. If he intended to defend himself, he would just disarm Sakura or knock her out. Sasuke was asking Sakura to kill Karin as a proof that she is willing to follow Sasuke.

It would be a self defense if Sakura is obviously pointing her kunai towards Sasuke. She only draw her kunai after Sasuke is asking her to kill Karin and walked pass her at the same time. Sasuke would never knew the kunai is poisoned. The fact that she didn't do so, she didn't initiate any attack and the fact that Sasuke attacked her *from behind* WITH chidori ready to pierce Sakura's heart speaks something else: he really intended to kill her. Conclusion: self defense argument is weak, you can read the manga again if you will.

Edited by Namaenash, 19 June 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[redragon88]

We cannot judge his actions because we do not now, nor will we ever be able to understand him and his pain.

Sorry but this part really angered me. That's being way to apologetic with Sasuke.

What if someone killed members of your family and he said that he did it because them living caused him pain even if they had nothing to do with causing said pain. Would you be OK with it because you can't understand his pain or would you be angry with him for taking away the people you love. I'm sure it would be the second one.

You need to see Sasuke for what he truly is now and to not make excuses for his actions. You sound as if you want to console him, even Naruto would find your view ridiculous. Sasuke needs a good punch to the face and for someone to call him out on his terrible mentality, which is precisely what Naruto plans to do with his fists.

Edited by redragon88, 19 June 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[Branden]

Sorry but this part really angered me. That's being way to apologetic with Sasuke.

What if someone killed members of your family and he said that he did it because them living caused him pain even if they had nothing to do with causing said pain. Would you be OK with it because you can't understand his pain or would you be angry with him for taking away the people you love. I'm sure it would be the second one.

You need to see Sasuke for what he truly is now and to not make excuses for his actions. You sound as if you want to console him, even Naruto would find your view ridiculous. Sasuke needs a good punch to the face and for someone to call him out on his terrible mentality, which is precisely what Naruto plans to do with his fists.

No, your wrong. Naruto tried to solve things with his fists, it didn't work. He resolved that the only way for them to come to an understanding is when they both die and they are freed from there problems. Very dark indeed but it's either that, Sasuke succeeding, or a miracle that will solve this. Right now were all hoping for a miracle.

Then again there is always the option of Sasuke dieing. Nobody will ever understand what Sasuke went through, that is such a unique situation that it allows him to be normal and evil at the same time. If you cannot comprehend that then I'm sorry.

[redragon88]

No, your wrong. Naruto tried to solve things with his fists, it didn't work. He resolved that the only way for them to come to an understanding is when they both die and they are freed from there problems. Very dark indeed but it's either that, Sasuke succeeding, or a miracle that will solve this. Right now were all hoping for a miracle.

Then again there is always the option of Sasuke dieing. Nobody will ever understand what Sasuke went through, that is such a unique situation that it allows him to be normal and evil at the same time. If you cannot comprehend that then I'm sorry.

No , the one who doesn't seem to comprehend is you. Did you even try to read my reply?

Naruto isn't looking to die. Also, you seem to have forgotten something very important, something that both Naruto and Sasuke are in agreement with: "When two shinobi of the same caliber fight they will be able to understand each other with their fists". Naruto failed last time because he didn't know the pain of loss as Sasuke did, but after his encounter with Pain (aka Nagato) Naruto is able to see more of what Sasuke is going through. What differentiates Naruto from Sasuke is that Naruto decided to do what was right, he chose not to kill Nagato for the sake of ending the cycle of revenge. Sasuke on the other hand has chosen to continue it and expand it to unjustifiable levels.

You accuse me of no comprehending, but it seems it's you who doesn't seem to understand the concept that Kishimoto is trying to communicate and for that it is I who feels sorry for you.

Try reading the Team 7 reunion chapters again. Naruto said it himself, he is done trying to reason with Sasuke through words. Naruto himself joked right then and there that he was terrible at using words anyway so the only solution was for them to fight it out. He isn't going to fight thinking he has to die for the conflict to be resolved, he going to fight thinking he and Sasuke are on such an equal level that the only thing that could possibly happen is that they end up killing each other since no one will be able to overpower the other.

On last thing, you still insist on the same "Nobody will ever understand what Sasuke went through". I'll ask you once again, please stop trying to romanticize Sasuke. What is that of being normal and evil at the same time? That just feel like you trying to excuse his behavior. And his situation is not unique, many people suffer the misfortune of being betrayed by those who they thought were supposed to protect them, it happens a lot in fiction and in real life. The majority of those people would surely want revenge on those who betrayed them and that is understandable. Sasuke on the other hand wants revenge on everyone, whether they are involved or not on causing him pain.

Sasuke has the capacity of going back to normal if Naruto has anything to say about it, but at this very moment he is by no means anything close to normal.

Also, you didn't answer my question about what would happen if someone like Sasuke hurt someone you love in a completely unjustifiable way. Don't try to say that you would try to understand and console him if that happened.

Sasuke has the mind set of hurting innocent people. Don't try to justify it by saying that it's ok because we can't understand what he's going through.

Edited by redragon88, 19 June 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[Don-kun]

I'm confused I cannot believe that these arguments in Sasuke defense are coming from the person who harshly criticized Sakura for her behavior towards Naruto, this sounds more of one of does cheap excuses used By Sasuke's fangirls to justify Sasuke and SS. What a shame, now I need to

[kirabook]

Just... debate the points instead of pinning names on the person making them. It makes you seem a lot more... not defensive.

[Don-kun]

I stopped debating with him/her a long time ago. From the moment he/she start bashing Sakura and then said that Naruto and Sakura should end up being friends so NH and SS could have a change, I stop debating him/her and now I'm just waiting for him/her to stop hiding and show her/her real colors, since no true NS fan speaks the way her/he speaks.

[Branden]

@redragon88


I understand completely where your coming from, but I disagree. We're at a philosophical discussion now, so I am done with this. Let's get back to discussing Naruto.


@donjoseph19

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -M.L.K.

Edited by Branden, 19 June 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[Gravenimage]

I'm confused I cannot believe that these arguments in Sasuke defense are coming from the person who harshly criticized Sakura for her behavior towards Naruto, this sounds more of one of does cheap excuses used By Sasuke's fangirls to justify Sasuke and SS. What a shame, now I need to

Be careful no bashing and also don't go with doubting whether he is a NS fan or not or if he's a SS fan whatever. Remember H and E is not just a forum for NS fans but also for other fans from opposite ships. Let's try to calm down and stay on topic.

Edited by Gravenimage, 19 June 2012 - 08:36 PM.

[kirabook]

Well, every fan is different and many fans are still very skeptical of the couple they love. It happens you know. I know some may not like it, but they're out there. They just don't join dedicated forums like this a majority of the time.

So, I just ask that you calm down and not take his criticism so harshly. If you get upset by someone challenging what you think of your pairing, whether they present facts or just talk out of their gluteal region, then it makes you no better than them.

It's always best to reply as calmly as possible with your own facts and thoughts to go against theirs.

Edited by kirabook, 19 June 2012 - 08:42 PM.

[Don-kun]

Well, every fan is different and many fans are still very skeptic of the couple they love. It happens you know. I know some may not like it, but they're out there. They just don't join dedicated forums like this a majority of the time.

So, I just ask that you calm down and not take his criticism so harshly. If you get upset by someone challenging what you think of your pairing, whether they present facts or just talk out of their gluteal region, then it makes you no better than them.

It's always best to reply as calmly as possible with your own facts and thoughts to go against theirs.

And who said I was upset? I'm annoyed with his mentality, SS, NH and SN fans don't annoy me, why? Because I already know what to expect from them, on the other hand negative NS fans making silly comments really annoys me.

[Branden]

And who said I was upset? I'm annoyed with his mentality, SS, NH and SN fans don't annoy me, why? Because I already know what to expect from them, on the other hand negative NS fans making silly comments really annoys me.

If that's the case, agree to disagree and move on, it's simple. Much better then making a spectacle of yourself by publicly bashing someone. Don't be blinded by your own self-righteous fury.

[Sakura Blossoms]

So...we're getting back on topic, yes?

Yes.

Move it along.

[Don-kun]

Lets try to focus on NS pairing, if we can do that then everything will be perfect.



How will Naruto confess his love to Sakura? *after he keeps his promise.*

[Verilance]

Right Shauna!!

I think Sakura has loved Naruto since chapter 11 and will spend most of the rest of the manga discovering this

why am I wrong?

why am I right?

floors open kids lol

[redragon88]

@redragon88


I understand completely where your coming from, but I disagree. We're at a philosophical discussion now, so I am done with this. Let's get back to discussing Naruto.

Very well, lets agree to disagree. You're right, no need to take it any further. Lets each just hold on to our interpretation of Sasuke then, as it is our right.

[Branden]

Do you think we will ever get to know more about Sakura's parents? On her outfit she has what looks kind of like a clan symbol but there's nothing else to support that. I wonder because it would tell us alot about Sakura, how her childhood was mainly. It's not really needed but I think we should know more about Sakura if she's going to be with Naruto. I wonder because we always see the rest of the rookie's parents from time to time, but we never see any of squad 7's parents. If her parents died too than Naruto and Sakura could have more in common, understand each other more. It would kind of suck if everyone on squad 7's parent's died young. I mean really, that would be depressing.